2 week wait for Rane Empath Rotary. Buy something else?

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2 week wait for Rane Empath Rotary. Buy something else?
Posted on: 18.05.2012 by Hipolito Scionti
So i've sold my djm800 and was all set on getting a Rane Empath Rotary:

MIRANE0004-810b1d6.jpg

And despite the decks.co.uk website saying it ships within 3 days, when i phone em they say it'll be 2 weeks as they need to ship from US.

Now i can wait two weeks, I got an s2 that'll tide me over, but i've sort of got cold feet. Like dunno if i'm maybe buying old tech... though that's also kind of what i like about it.

I was believeing alternatives... even xone 92 rotary but i just hear a lot of greif about a+h gear - especially China made etc. I've used em at clubs and do like them but dunno.

Any other mixers i should be believeing about?

I like the Empath cause of the send / return on each channel. Gonna want add hardware fx... either a filter or possibly a rmx-1000

Any thoughts?

Wait or get something else?
Hipolito Scionti
28.05.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
@MaxOne, well, let's say unusual. I'll go with cue/master being a fader instead of a knob, only having one set of leds (vs. channel leds + master leds), having to press the cue/main switch below it to display your cued levels , that definitely caught me off guard. At least the full master preview is just that, unlike on the 92 as mentioned (that and the post eq switch caught me off guard the first time I had to play on one!). It was a few months ago so I don't remember if the cue monitoring is pre/post EQ.

But I guess when you've transitioned from the regular/easy way of monitoring like on pioneer, behringers, eclers... etc to A&H you can totally get used to it.

Plus the empath has shitloads of options on it, it's a bit of a xone 92 meets ecler nuo 3.0. You even get a choice of fader caps, my mates had the rubber kit on, maybe a little squishier than Kontrol X1 fx knobs

edit : speaking of unusual monitoring, the 92's manual suggests using the fx sends + cue aux 1/2 switches for extra flexibility.

I'll have to give that a shot)
Ok cheers mate. Must admit i'm still fundamentally undecided...

I believe the truth is I was so used to my DJM800 everything else seems a little illogical or a "workaround". Also it just did make total sense tbh.

I'm getting RGAS flashes of the DJM900 in my mind a bit now... bit of a mental swerve ball im throwing myself!?

Hipolito Scionti
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama
I mentioned this in previous post, if you like to mix on HP this is how I do it:

Cue the channel you want to mix and put cue/master pot @ 50% (more / less, like you prefer).
Beatmatch the track then cue & play when you want to mix...then deselect the cue.

After deselecting the cue, you should hear the master & you can start mixing in the track (if you want to check pitch you can toggle the cue a few times before you mix in to 100% or use eq to blend)

It's a bit different (work around) but once you get used to it you can mix in cans only.
yeah ok cheers, i get that, that is a work around and its doable of course.

I just kind of want my next mixer to be my last, certainly for a while and i just don't want too many niggles. All mixers have quirks but I want it to do some fundamentals well.

I got rid of the DJM800, which I actually believe is a fantastic mixer and just does everything, as a tool really well. It's not missing much. The effects aren't the absolute best but i don't really use em tbh. Sound wise I actually found it to have fantastic clarity... but it does miss a certain something in the sound... just a smidgen of warmth/soul maybe? I could have just got the rotary upgrade for it tbh and that might have kept me happy.

Most of the anti pioneer brigade I suspect have never owned the DJM800 and have probably only used battered ones it in shitty venues with meh systems but, at home with my VXTs, it was a really crystal clear sounding mixer... just a bit clinical/transparent, no real character.

So to replace it, I want a mixer that does all the basics well but has soul... The 92 has soul for sure but, for me, it might have a couple too many quirks and not do the basics of what i need to my liking (cue thing/pre eq monitoring/send return bit odd).

I'm believeing it's got to be the empath... I just wish I could try it out first
Dannielle Dingey
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Yeah but you cant pan fully to the master. Like how it works in traktor for example. With the 92, the volume of the cue stays the same, you only "add mix" of the master. And the cue is too dominant, theres no way to pan it out or low in the headphones. Not a problem when using monitors but an issue when trying to mix in headphones alone.

Its not the same as on traktor or pioneers or even the empath by the look of it. Unless i was doing something wrong, but i'm sure i wasn't.
I mentioned this in previous post, if you like to mix on HP this is how I do it:

Cue the channel you want to mix and put cue/master pot @ 50% (more / less, like you prefer).
Beatmatch the track then cue & play when you want to mix...then deselect the cue.

After deselecting the cue, you should hear the master & you can start mixing in the track (if you want to check pitch you can toggle the cue a few times before you mix in to 100% or use eq to blend)

It's a bit different (work around) but once you get used to it you can mix in cans only.

Ps. xone 92r doesn't have linear rotaries, the punch is in the last 25%
Hipolito Scionti
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Yes it does- cue/mix knob right above the headphone volume knob. 'Mix' = Master
Yeah but you cant pan fully to the master. Like how it works in traktor for example. With the 92, the volume of the cue stays the same, you only "add mix" of the master. And the cue is too dominant, theres no way to pan it out or low in the headphones. Not a problem when using monitors but an issue when trying to mix in headphones alone.

Its not the same as on traktor or pioneers or even the empath by the look of it. Unless i was doing something wrong, but i'm sure i wasn't.
Romelia Stankard
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master
Yes it does- cue/mix knob right above the headphone volume knob. 'Mix' = Master
Dorie Scelzo
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master
yes it does. It's the knob above the headphone volume labeled "cue" on one side and "add mix" on the other.

He's probably referring to the level meters…which are a bit limited on the empath. They show you everything you need, but they're definitely not as extensive as some. Whatever…get the rotary version, run your gains a bit hot, and then just don't bother turning the levels up the whole way.
Hipolito Scionti
26.05.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
Fwiw, I used some friends's Empath (linear faders) and liked the feel of the unit, just found the monitoring a little awkward to use, I'm sure you can get used to it quickly though.
(for reference, I'm an A&H guy, got a 42 at home, kinda like the Ecler Nuo3.0's big chunky eq knobs too for eq mixing).
Cheers mate, what do you mean monitoring was awkward? Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master (which the empath looks like it has). Could you expand? I'd love to have a go on the empath but none of the stores near me have one on display...
Ola Fornwalt
25.05.2012
Originally Posted by dirty moose
Always the Rane MP 2016. That mixer is a rock.
I've got one for sale with the expander pm me for a price and deatails
Hipolito Scionti
25.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
That had one Ina shop in Miami that I went to during wmc/UMF a couple years ago.
Yeah... doesn't help me that much
Hipolito Scionti
28.05.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
@MaxOne, well, let's say unusual. I'll go with cue/master being a fader instead of a knob, only having one set of leds (vs. channel leds + master leds), having to press the cue/main switch below it to display your cued levels , that definitely caught me off guard. At least the full master preview is just that, unlike on the 92 as mentioned (that and the post eq switch caught me off guard the first time I had to play on one!). It was a few months ago so I don't remember if the cue monitoring is pre/post EQ.

But I guess when you've transitioned from the regular/easy way of monitoring like on pioneer, behringers, eclers... etc to A&H you can totally get used to it.

Plus the empath has shitloads of options on it, it's a bit of a xone 92 meets ecler nuo 3.0. You even get a choice of fader caps, my mates had the rubber kit on, maybe a little squishier than Kontrol X1 fx knobs

edit : speaking of unusual monitoring, the 92's manual suggests using the fx sends + cue aux 1/2 switches for extra flexibility.

I'll have to give that a shot)
Ok cheers mate. Must admit i'm still fundamentally undecided...

I believe the truth is I was so used to my DJM800 everything else seems a little illogical or a "workaround". Also it just did make total sense tbh.

I'm getting RGAS flashes of the DJM900 in my mind a bit now... bit of a mental swerve ball im throwing myself!?

Delila Vandommelen
28.05.2012		@MaxOne, well, let's say unusual. I'll go with cue/master being a fader instead of a knob, only having one set of leds (vs. channel leds + master leds), having to press the cue/main switch below it to display your cued levels , that definitely caught me off guard. At least the full master preview is just that, unlike on the 92 as mentioned (that and the post eq switch caught me off guard the first time I had to play on one!). It was a few months ago so I don't remember if the cue monitoring is pre/post EQ.

But I guess when you've transitioned from the regular/easy way of monitoring like on pioneer, behringers, eclers... etc to A&H you can totally get used to it.

Plus the empath has shitloads of options on it, it's a bit of a xone 92 meets ecler nuo 3.0. You even get a choice of fader caps, my mates had the rubber kit on, maybe a little squishier than Kontrol X1 fx knobs

edit : speaking of unusual monitoring, the 92's manual suggests using the fx sends + cue aux 1/2 switches for extra flexibility.
You can use the Aux mix to cue your music
when beat or cut mixing. Set all sends pre-fade and
select the headphones monitor AUX switch to listen
to the selected channels. This lets you listen to the
effect of mixing the sources or matching the beat
before you bring it into the house mix.
I'll have to give that a shot)
Romelia Stankard
27.05.2012		Yeah I forgot the 92 was a little different and wasn't like the 4D and all the new a&h mixers where right is 100% mix. You just had to deselect the cue button to hear 100% mix.
Dorie Scelzo
27.05.2012		The 92 definitely has its quirks. I guess you're right about the cue/addmix knob……I just never thought there'd be a reason to want to be anywhere between 50/50 and 100% mix. I only use the 100% cue to 50/50 half of mine unless i just jam it over to 100% mix.

Man…that's hard to explain.
Hipolito Scionti
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama
I mentioned this in previous post, if you like to mix on HP this is how I do it:

Cue the channel you want to mix and put cue/master pot @ 50% (more / less, like you prefer).
Beatmatch the track then cue & play when you want to mix...then deselect the cue.

After deselecting the cue, you should hear the master & you can start mixing in the track (if you want to check pitch you can toggle the cue a few times before you mix in to 100% or use eq to blend)

It's a bit different (work around) but once you get used to it you can mix in cans only.
yeah ok cheers, i get that, that is a work around and its doable of course.

I just kind of want my next mixer to be my last, certainly for a while and i just don't want too many niggles. All mixers have quirks but I want it to do some fundamentals well.

I got rid of the DJM800, which I actually believe is a fantastic mixer and just does everything, as a tool really well. It's not missing much. The effects aren't the absolute best but i don't really use em tbh. Sound wise I actually found it to have fantastic clarity... but it does miss a certain something in the sound... just a smidgen of warmth/soul maybe? I could have just got the rotary upgrade for it tbh and that might have kept me happy.

Most of the anti pioneer brigade I suspect have never owned the DJM800 and have probably only used battered ones it in shitty venues with meh systems but, at home with my VXTs, it was a really crystal clear sounding mixer... just a bit clinical/transparent, no real character.

So to replace it, I want a mixer that does all the basics well but has soul... The 92 has soul for sure but, for me, it might have a couple too many quirks and not do the basics of what i need to my liking (cue thing/pre eq monitoring/send return bit odd).

I'm believeing it's got to be the empath... I just wish I could try it out first
Dannielle Dingey
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Yeah but you cant pan fully to the master. Like how it works in traktor for example. With the 92, the volume of the cue stays the same, you only "add mix" of the master. And the cue is too dominant, theres no way to pan it out or low in the headphones. Not a problem when using monitors but an issue when trying to mix in headphones alone.

Its not the same as on traktor or pioneers or even the empath by the look of it. Unless i was doing something wrong, but i'm sure i wasn't.
I mentioned this in previous post, if you like to mix on HP this is how I do it:

Cue the channel you want to mix and put cue/master pot @ 50% (more / less, like you prefer).
Beatmatch the track then cue & play when you want to mix...then deselect the cue.

After deselecting the cue, you should hear the master & you can start mixing in the track (if you want to check pitch you can toggle the cue a few times before you mix in to 100% or use eq to blend)

It's a bit different (work around) but once you get used to it you can mix in cans only.

Ps. xone 92r doesn't have linear rotaries, the punch is in the last 25%
Hipolito Scionti
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Yes it does- cue/mix knob right above the headphone volume knob. 'Mix' = Master
Yeah but you cant pan fully to the master. Like how it works in traktor for example. With the 92, the volume of the cue stays the same, you only "add mix" of the master. And the cue is too dominant, theres no way to pan it out or low in the headphones. Not a problem when using monitors but an issue when trying to mix in headphones alone.

Its not the same as on traktor or pioneers or even the empath by the look of it. Unless i was doing something wrong, but i'm sure i wasn't.
Romelia Stankard
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master
Yes it does- cue/mix knob right above the headphone volume knob. 'Mix' = Master
Dorie Scelzo
27.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master
yes it does. It's the knob above the headphone volume labeled "cue" on one side and "add mix" on the other.

He's probably referring to the level meters…which are a bit limited on the empath. They show you everything you need, but they're definitely not as extensive as some. Whatever…get the rotary version, run your gains a bit hot, and then just don't bother turning the levels up the whole way.
Hipolito Scionti
26.05.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
Fwiw, I used some friends's Empath (linear faders) and liked the feel of the unit, just found the monitoring a little awkward to use, I'm sure you can get used to it quickly though.
(for reference, I'm an A&H guy, got a 42 at home, kinda like the Ecler Nuo3.0's big chunky eq knobs too for eq mixing).
Cheers mate, what do you mean monitoring was awkward? Monitoring is kind of what I have issue with the xone 92. No ability to pan between cue and master (which the empath looks like it has). Could you expand? I'd love to have a go on the empath but none of the stores near me have one on display...
Delila Vandommelen
26.05.2012		Fwiw, I used some friends's Empath (linear faders) and liked the feel of the unit, just found the monitoring a little awkward to use, I'm sure you can get used to it quickly though.
(for reference, I'm an A&H guy, got a 42 at home, kinda like the Ecler Nuo3.0's big chunky eq knobs too for eq mixing).
Ola Fornwalt
25.05.2012
Originally Posted by dirty moose
Always the Rane MP 2016. That mixer is a rock.
I've got one for sale with the expander pm me for a price and deatails
Hipolito Scionti
25.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
That had one Ina shop in Miami that I went to during wmc/UMF a couple years ago.
Yeah... doesn't help me that much
Dorie Scelzo
25.05.2012		That had one Ina shop in Miami that I went to during wmc/UMF a couple years ago.
Hipolito Scionti
25.05.2012		There are no perfect, available to buy mixers.

I would get the v6 if i could walk into a shop and get it it.

It's driving me mad.
Dorie Scelzo
24.05.2012		Also, analog doesn't always mean better.

It doesn't come up as much in DJ software (because we're all using 16-bit files anyway) but the noise floor on digital mixers (whether hardware or software) is quieter than on any of the original analog DJ mixers.

"analog warmth" usually means a combination of noise, distortion, and limited frequency response. It's a specific thing. Not a specifically good thing.
Rosenda Gossage
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
he reason is that it feels smoother to turn a knob than move a fader to a lot of people
Hipolito Scionti
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by chrisw
Like besides the warm sound is there any bennifit to rotary mixing? I am just curious. i dont even own an actual mixer
Rotary doesn't = warm sound. Just original mixers used to be rotary so it's an old skool vibe. Also the original were more handcrafted analogie mixers so had a lovely analogue sound.

Some say you can mix smoother twisting a rotary knob.

There are limitations if you like to slam a fader. Not really for turntablist...

I'm gonna have to go back and try and work out the headphone thing on the 92.
Dorie Scelzo
24.05.2012		Warm sound has to do with the circuitry, not the faders.

The reason is that it feels smoother to turn a knob than move a fader to a lot of people…much more precise volume adjustments and harder to over-adjust and miss the level you were going for.
Cammy Clegg
24.05.2012		Like besides the warm sound is there any bennifit to rotary mixing? I am just curious. i dont even own an actual mixer
Dorie Scelzo
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama
Urei (soundcraft)
Attachment 9753
Urei was their own company back in the day. They were kind of epic. They also made one of the most classic (and popular) studio compressors of all time, the 1176.



They're awesome.

Anyway
Romelia Stankard
24.05.2012		You can cue and mix just fine in headphones on the 92. You can also select multiple channels to cue by pressing the cue buttons at the same time (it's not like a DJM where they toggle on and off, you have to hit them at the same time to cue multiple) and you have a cue/master mix knob.
Hipolito Scionti
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama
I have a Xone 92r (not the Rane) and love it !
Understand your gripe with the cue, you can only listen to cue or cue mixed with master...but if you place the rotary @ cue only then you can toggle between cue & master by deselecting the cue button (no cue selected = master signal to headphone).
Hmmm not sure i get you... Can you blend the amount of volume you hear with the cue/master then slam it over to just master? You saying you deselect the cue?

It just seemed not intuitive. No multiple cues set at the same time?
Dannielle Dingey
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Yo, late back on this post. Nice pics of classic rotaries

This badboy tickles my fancy too



@JohnnyDrama You got pics of your rane rotary set up?

I went and had another look at the 92 today... the headphone cue things a bit annoying. Cant fully pan between master and cue in headphones.

I do have to mix on headphones when the missus is in bed... thats a bit of a deal breaker. Never noticed that when using playing out cause then i just cue the track alone and use monitors.

Hmmm might be back to the empath and the two week wait.

I have a Xone 92r (not the Rane) and love it !
Understand your gripe with the cue, you can only listen to cue or cue mixed with master...but if you place the rotary @ cue only then you can toggle between cue & master by deselecting the cue button (no cue selected = master signal to headphone).
Hipolito Scionti
24.05.2012		Yo, late back on this post. Nice pics of classic rotaries

This badboy tickles my fancy too



@JohnnyDrama You got pics of your rane rotary set up?

I went and had another look at the 92 today... the headphone cue things a bit annoying. Cant fully pan between master and cue in headphones.

I do have to mix on headphones when the missus is in bed... thats a bit of a deal breaker. Never noticed that when using playing out cause then i just cue the track alone and use monitors.

Hmmm might be back to the empath and the two week wait.
Dannielle Dingey
24.05.2012		euh, see post above yours...link and all ?
Rhona Naron
24.05.2012
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Well rotary knobs just have a nice old skool feel for mixing... Cant find any brilliant examples but this is sort of the vibe

What VU-meter is that??? I WANT!
Dannielle Dingey
24.05.2012		^^ big VU-meters (monitor output) = Dorrough http://www.dorrough.com/40.html

That's my kind of gizmo's ($900 a pair...and they say pioneer is expensive )
The V6 is (IMHO) the most epic rotary (and discontinued), they made a 'cheaper' (3K) alternative: Xone S6

I went rotary after seeing little louis vega mixing on of the best sets I witnessed IRL with a rotary (MP 2016 ) and never looked back
Danae Dumler
24.05.2012		That Xone V6 is a work of art. I'd be concerned I'd forget to mix as I stood there being mesmerized by the VU meters jumping. Speaking of meters, what's the component above the V6 with the giant meters on it? WANT. Even though I have no clue what it does.
Tyisha Towle
23.05.2012		^
the turntables might as well be on a shelf 5 feet up. My back would be killing me at the end of the evening .

+1 for the Xone V6.... Rotary FTW!!
Dannielle Dingey
23.05.2012		2011_setup_1.jpg
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Well rotary knobs just have a nice old skool feel for mixing... Cant find any brilliant examples but this is sort of the vibe

Great post !
How about some example (classic) rotary mixer:

Bozak
bozak_ar-6.jpg

Urei (soundcraft)
1620LEf.jpg

Rane
ranemp206s.jpg

2011_setup_1.jpg


A&H (Xone 92r)
b_11566.jpg

That A&H in the above video is a Xone V6 and my personal wet dream...(but will never own one)

Ps. the s&r (Xone 92) is not build the same way like the cdj800-900-2000 (not quality wise) so you only real option is to place it on the main (this sucks, you wont like it).

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