learning CDJ from s4 for a small gig

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learning CDJ from s4 for a small gig
Posted on: 19.06.2012 by Zulma Ramji
hey guys,

Ive been learning and playing on S4. I might be able to play in about a week but the venue has CDJ and they would want me to use them so that there is no commotion before resident dj.

How long does it take to learn CDJs? I am going to be playing deep tech house. i will probably have 2 hours on the weekend to practise on friend's one. Maybe you can send over the tutorials for basics?

cheers
Jona Slon
21.06.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
fucking oldschoolers trying to make beatmatching seem hard. Beatmatching on CDJs is mindless. You don't have to do fader math unlessthe CDJ is old. Just move the tempo fader until the two tempo readouts match. If you're mixing deep house, the BPM readers will be fine. Then you just press play on the 1, and nudge until it fits.

You should still practice to get the hang out if though. Just use your S4 with the stock mapping without sync. It's easy. You'll quickly go "What the fuck are these old dudes talking about? A monkey could do this".
Old schoolers? Lose the attitude mate I'm 19 and I respect the art of beatmatching as much as I respect traktor pro. Sure beatmatching is easy when you learn it but it's like riding a bike at first it sure is hard.
Jerica Salava
21.06.2012
best news i've heard is that the CDJ 2000 has a 000.0 readout.
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
Let us know how it goes! Or if you have any question before your big gig.
I hope you kill it!
Zulma Ramji
20.06.2012
alright guys, cheers, thanks for your comments!
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
oh god, then yes, you're going to be fine, don't listen to them. If you have beatmatched in traktor then forget it, it won't be any different than you're used to. If you haven't beatmatched in traktor, you can easily learn, just do like we have said, and spin in traktor only using Cue, Play, jogwheels and pitchfaders.

match tempos, then hit play on the 1 beat, and nudge back and forth with the jogs. Do it at first with the phase meter on, so you see how it works, then once you have that down, turn the phase meter off (in deck settings) and do it by ear.

when you get to use your friends' CDJs, just make sure you can do it like you practice on your S4.
Zulma Ramji
20.06.2012
yeah guys, im very familiar with traktor s4 so i am just not familiar with the cdj. if this helps they have cdj 2000.
Yevette Matatall
20.06.2012
2 minutes turkish
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
lawl. okay man, continue to pay attention to half of what we say, and argue accordingly. Several of us told him in detail how to practice in Traktor, because it's the same thing as CDJs without sync. I went further and explained to learn the technique in traktor ahead of time, then use the 2 hours on CDJs to get used to physical parts of the platform itself.
Yevette Matatall
20.06.2012
[QUOTE=faderswagger;493514]Did you even read the OP's post?? He said he has traktor, an S4, and 2 hours to practice on CDJs. Why are you trying to talk him out of it? Yes he should be confident, but he has plenty of time to get confident. QUOTE]

yep, read it the first time... did you? because he says he will "proberly have 2 hours practice"

This is silly to reply and i should exersice better judgement but I find your reasoning for two hours practice on a cdj enough to feel confident somewhat comical. Its not bad advice that he should exersice caution, you guys havnt given him any good advice besides, go for it, its easy... nice, easy to say when ur not the one pressing play.
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
Did you even read the OP's post?? He said he has traktor, an S4, and 2 hours to practice on CDJs. Why are you trying to talk him out of it? Yes he should be confident, but he has plenty of time to get confident. He's going to be fine if he practices the technique a little bit in traktor, and then uses the 2 hours on CDJs to get comfortable with the platform. Most of the people who have posted are just talking about how hard it is, and how he needs more time, which is the least supportive thing they can be doing. Keep in mind, he has an S4 and (as far as we know) unlimted time until then to practice the concept, so all he needs to do with those 2 hours is get used to the platform

A few of us have been trying to explain to him how to practice, and reassure him that he'll be fine, while the answer that the rest have been giving is that beatmatching is too hard and he's not going to be able to do it in time. 2 hours is enough time to get a firm enough grasp on the hardware, if he practices in traktor first. It wouldn't take most people more than a few hours to learn how to beatmatch on anything with a BPM readout, at LEAST enough to the comfortable gigging.
Yevette Matatall
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
^ seriously... this...
Old schoolers are trying to claim bpm readers don't work because of rounding? FFS, we're talking about less than 1/2 a bpm here... If you listen, you'll be able to fix it the last 1/2 BPM by ear, even if the deck is live without anyone even noticing. If the CDJs you're using don't do decimal places, then Match them down to the closest whole number, press play on beat, nudge to fix (should take about 1-2 seconds) and if it's still getting off time (at the maximum rate of .5 bpm per minute, so slowly as hell), notice which direction you having to nudge, and move the pitch fader in that direction...

Come on oldschoolers, stop looking for cred and talking about "doing it by feel". You just sound like jackasses to we newschoolers who know how to beatmatch. If you wanna "do it by feel", spin vinyl, CDJs do this shit for you.
seem s to me that you guys are suffering from teenage type angst..... read all the posts that guys have written here given advice that the OP should take the time to learn to feel comfortable with beatmatching first. No one is being
Jerica Salava
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by DJDoubleYou
I don't want to insult anyone, but beatmatching is eazy as hell.
If you take a guy who learned with SYNC and turn it off, it will take him a few days to get good at consistently mixing without train wrecking. And that's at home. In a club environment, where there can be a number of variables (monitors, crowd noise, nerves, etc.), it's a whole other story.

>
Yevette Matatall
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by loverocket
Sounds like you agree with my point. Are you saying I use math to mix? I learned on vinyl man.

>
I was agreeing with you, math point wasnt directed at you.
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by DJDoubleYou
I don't want to insult anyone, but beatmatching is eazy as hell. To practice just don't turn on sync and remove you Phase meter, try to press play at the right moment and if you learnd that (10 min) try to press it as f*cked-up as possible and correct it with the jog.

^ seriously... this...
Old schoolers are trying to claim bpm readers don't work because of rounding? FFS, we're talking about less than 1/2 a bpm here... If you listen, you'll be able to fix it the last 1/2 BPM by ear, even if the deck is live without anyone even noticing. If the CDJs you're using don't do decimal places, then Match them down to the closest whole number, press play on beat, nudge to fix (should take about 1-2 seconds) and if it's still getting off time (at the maximum rate of .5 bpm per minute, so slowly as hell), notice which direction you having to nudge, and move the pitch fader in that direction...

Come on oldschoolers, stop looking for cred and talking about "doing it by feel". You just sound like jackasses to we newschoolers who know how to beatmatch. If you wanna "do it by feel", spin vinyl, CDJs do this shit for you.
Era Roka
20.06.2012
I don't want to insult anyone, but beatmatching is eazy as hell. To practice just don't turn on sync and remove you Phase meter, try to press play at the right moment and if you learnd that (10 min) try to press it as f*cked-up as possible and correct it with the jog.
Loyce Mekonen
20.06.2012
Not a CDJ user myself but I'd recommend If you're going to use CDJ's to run your tracks through Rekordbox first just in case. If the venue has 2000's or 900's it will help you greatly (not sure about the rest of pio's cdj line). If not, you just wasted a few hours of your life. But in any case, make sure you take advantage of whatever rekordbox option is available like cue points and what not..
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
again.
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
And so the DJ-dick-measuring argument begins.
Jerica Salava
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by narrah
This ^^^^^^ There are no dinosaurs here professing that beatmatching is the most difficult thing, what we are saying is that it is a skill that requires a certain level of practice and conformability. The fact that you are "doing the math" to beatmatch tells me, you haven’t really mastered it, because if you’ve mastered it its more a feeling, I dont really have to calculate anything, just feel it,
Sounds like you agree with my point. Are you saying I use math to mix? I learned on vinyl man.

>
Yevette Matatall
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by loverocket
The CDJ's will read 130 BPM for 129.6 or 130.4. big difference. You threw that word "NUDGE" in there too lightly. If you try to mix my example 129.6 with 130.4 you will be nudging a lot. If you don't practice beatmatching with your ears your excessive nudging will end up train wrecking. I always use the +/- 6 % setting because if you notice it gives you a finer (.10) pitch resolution.

You sure you guys mix without sync?

>

This ^^^^^^ There are no dinosaurs here professing that beatmatching is the most difficult thing, what we are saying is that it is a skill that requires a certain level of practice and conformability. The fact that you are "doing the math" to beatmatch tells me, you haven
Mimi Mahaffee
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by loverocket
The CDJ's will read 130 BPM for 129.6 or 130.4. big difference. You threw that word "NUDGE" in there too lightly. If you try to mix my example 129.6 with 130.4 you will be nudging a lot. If you don't practice beatmatching with your ears your excessive nudging will end up train wrecking. I always use the +/- 6 % setting because if you notice it gives you a finer (.10) pitch resolution.

You sure you guys mix without sync?

>
If you do 32 beatmix at 128 bpm it wont trainwreck if you have 127,5 nor 128.5 bpm.
cdj 2000 have .10 bpm visuals actually. (128,1 128,2, 128,3 etc)

i find the bpm meters on cdj 1000, cdj 850, 900 even 350 and ofcourse 2000 to be pretty damn accurate assuming that you play dance music.

So to answer your question OP, you could probably pick it up quite quick if you want to use them without trainwrecking although you wont learn to beatmatch in 2 hours.

When using your S4, just set the bpms with pitch fader and nudge your wheels until you can match the tracks for the time you need, thats what you can do with cdjs that reads bpm correct.
Nancey Inderlied
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by loverocket
The CDJ's will read 130 BPM for 129.6 or 130.4. big difference. You threw that word "NUDGE" in there too lightly. If you try to mix my example 129.6 with 130.4 you will be nudging a lot. If you don't practice beatmatching with your ears your excessive nudging will end up train wrecking. I always use the +/- 6 % setting because if you notice it gives you a finer (.10) pitch resolution.

You sure you guys mix without sync?

>
Assuming you aren't mentally challenged, you already know that 128 + 1.60% is 130, and + .78% is 129. To the best of the CDJ's pitch accuracy. The readout on the CDJ is just a root guide, and that's assuming it's not on a 2000, which has a tenth of a BPM display.

Of course, also not being stupid, and riding the pitch fader a bit until it's around half way through the value will get it pretty close too. If you just touch it until it flickers to 130, of course the rounding is going to screw you. The advantage is that you don't have to spend a ridiclous amount of time listening to two basslines and trying to check phase. The tracks are in time before the second one even goes in, which gives you a lot more flexibility when you're actually bringing the track in.
Carmelo Politowicz
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
thanks for responses guys! to be honest its not even a full blown gig - i will be playing very early in the evening so i doubt there will be many people but i still dont want to embarrass myself and get called in again. If anyone knows any good resources where there is a detailed walkthrough to CDJ - i would welcome it, as i couldnt find anything good from my research.

so any comments on - can i hook up traktor software with laptop to CDJs (to read bmps and waveforms from laptop)? how would i go about doing so?

thanks!
I was in a somewhat similar predicament, in that my only gear is a pair of 1200's and a mixer, and I was going to be playing on CDJ's for the first time. My only other experience with jog wheels was playing with a buddies Mixtrack Pro. If you're in the states, I went to Guitar Center which had a set up of CDJ 2000 / CDJ 900 and a mixer. I just asked the dude if I could bring my headphones and some tracks over to practice for a bit on an off day/time when it wasn't crowded. He said yeah, and I went to it just to familiarize myself with the controls, jog wheel, and overall feel of the unit. If not in the states, then perhaps another store that has the units that you can demo in store? That would be my best advice - you are going to want to get to know the feel of them before going on live otherwise it will be a disaster until you get the hang of 'em.

Also, depending upon the CDJ, it may be USB stick compliant. If so, you can download RekordBox for free from pioneer, analyze and organize your tracks, and then be good to go without the need to burn a ton of CD's. Just another option. That way you can input pre-programed cue points on your tracks if you already do that now, which you can't do with CD's unless you bring a SD card with that information already stored on the card (also done with rekordbox). You may even be able to use a usb stick for that as well if you already have cd's burned - but I'm no expert on the intricacies so I'll defer to others.
Carmelo Politowicz
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Sync doesnt matter, pretty much every CDJ since 2001, and every Pioneer CDJ, has a BPM readout. The newer ones quantize it based on various inputs. Beatmatching vinyl style is a waste of time.
LOL! Awesome. Just brilliant. Unless you are doing a 4 bar mix, you are going to need to know whether track A is playing faster than track B or vice versa - even by say .5 of a BPM. CDJ's only give you a round number for the BPM, so once it trails off tempo you will need to know in which direction, and be comfortable with both the jog wheel and the pitch controls to get it back on phase.
Julissa Serrone
21.06.2012
what CDJ's are they?

Aren't most also midi controllers.
Jerica Salava
21.06.2012
if you live in a big city there might be a DJ or a DJ school who will gladly take $$$ to tutor you for a couple hours.
Zulma Ramji
21.06.2012
Originally Posted by guiltyblade
you need timecoded cds, and a Audio 4/6/8/10 to be able to do that. I'm assuming you don't have that. So unless its a midi capable cdj, you probably won't be able to do that. Even then I wouldn't want to mess around trying to make it work before a gig. Best off just learning how to use a cdj.

As for tutorial. Its very similar to your S4 it really is. Its just with no information. The layout itself will be similar. All you need is to search a track, select it, cue, play. adjust.

But if you are burning CDs here is what I recommend:

Burn SLOW 1x slow. This will ensure there are no screw ups.
Label CD with all tracks well. Or print out info with track stuff on it.
Burn as Audio track. Don't burn as Mp3. Some CDjs can't read these. So that way you can save these cds for later use.
thanks for the advice!
Alla Bluemke
21.06.2012
you need timecoded cds, and a Audio 4/6/8/10 to be able to do that. I'm assuming you don't have that. So unless its a midi capable cdj, you probably won't be able to do that. Even then I wouldn't want to mess around trying to make it work before a gig. Best off just learning how to use a cdj.

As for tutorial. Its very similar to your S4 it really is. Its just with no information. The layout itself will be similar. All you need is to search a track, select it, cue, play. adjust.

But if you are burning CDs here is what I recommend:

Burn SLOW 1x slow. This will ensure there are no screw ups.
Label CD with all tracks well. Or print out info with track stuff on it.
Burn as Audio track. Don't burn as Mp3. Some CDjs can't read these. So that way you can save these cds for later use.
Zulma Ramji
21.06.2012
also, IF i can hook up laptop to cdj, can i just play music from laptop and not burn cds?
Zulma Ramji
21.06.2012
thanks for responses guys! to be honest its not even a full blown gig - i will be playing very early in the evening so i doubt there will be many people but i still dont want to embarrass myself and get called in again. If anyone knows any good resources where there is a detailed walkthrough to CDJ - i would welcome it, as i couldnt find anything good from my research.

so any comments on - can i hook up traktor software with laptop to CDJs (to read bmps and waveforms from laptop)? how would i go about doing so?

thanks!
Alla Bluemke
20.06.2012
I'm gonna have to agree. Yes it easy as hell to beatmatch on CDJS. But you still have to adjust the tempo and jog, especially on longer mixes. If you believe 130 is really 130 then you are in a world of pain. Why is it you see most good djs on cdjs still adjust pitch control none stop, or nudge slightly constantly? Because those read outs are a good estimation to the whole in part, but you can't trust them completely. Its just like traktors beat grid, you can't trust it completely, you have to adjust the grid. If BPM readouts were perfect on everything then we would never have to do this, but the tech is just not perfect. You can't just set it and forget it on cdjs, there is constant adjustment, similar to vinyl, just made easier.

Any person who mixes properly will tell you that that doing the set it to the bpm readout and pressing play will really cause for bad mixes, doubling, drifting, wrecking, etc. You should be constantly listening and re-adjusting.

Btw the OG poster. You can learn on cdjs in two hours if you have the basics down. But don't expect it to be a perfect mix or anything. When the pressures on its a different animal.
Zulma Ramji
20.06.2012
i can beatmatch so its not a problem... i believe the biggest thing is that im used to traktor interface and being able to see the track and waveforms and know when then breakdown is coming etc.

Any way to hook up laptop with traktor software and use CDJ as i would use s4?
Julissa Serrone
20.06.2012
take an X1 and hit sync all day

if you've never played on CDJ's I wouldn't use a live gig as my first crack at it.
Jerica Salava
20.06.2012
Just noticed something strange in Traktor. DECK A track is 125 BPM. DECK B track is 126 BPM. I turned SYNC OFF. Pitch resolution set to +/- 8%. I play DECK A. When I try to mix DECK B it will only let me go to 125.01 it denies me 125.00 ??? no matter what I try it doesn't let me get there. When I pitch DECK A up or down it has even values (125.00, 124.42) DECK B only has odd values (125.01, 124.43) WTF ?

Also annoying: when you press the little [+][-] squares under the pitch bend slider it jumps in huge increments. When I press those it should go from 125.01 to 125.00 then 124.99. Isn't that what FINE pitch bend means? Even in MIN setting (right-click on them) it jumps .04. What crap.

>
Nereida Jasnoch
20.06.2012
Practice with the cue and play button on the S4. And the pitch. And the jogwheels.

Basicly CDJs are all about those 4 things.
Jerica Salava
20.06.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
fucking oldschoolers trying to make beatmatching seem hard. Beatmatching on CDJs is mindless. You don't have to do fader math unlessthe CDJ is old. Just move the tempo fader until the two tempo readouts match. If you're mixing deep house, the BPM readers will be fine. Then you just press play on the 1, and nudge until it fits.

You should still practice to get the hang out if though. Just use your S4 with the stock mapping without sync. It's easy. You'll quickly go "What the fuck are these old dudes talking about? A monkey could do this".
The CDJ's will read 130 BPM for 129.6 or 130.4. big difference. You threw that word "NUDGE" in there too lightly. If you try to mix my example 129.6 with 130.4 you will be nudging a lot. If you don't practice beatmatching with your ears your excessive nudging will end up train wrecking. I always use the +/- 6 % setting because if you notice it gives you a finer (.10) pitch resolution.

You sure you guys mix without sync?

>
Natalia Bucko
20.06.2012
fucking oldschoolers trying to make beatmatching seem hard. Beatmatching on CDJs is mindless. You don't have to do fader math unlessthe CDJ is old. Just move the tempo fader until the two tempo readouts match. If you're mixing deep house, the BPM readers will be fine. Then you just press play on the 1, and nudge until it fits.

You should still practice to get the hang out if though. Just use your S4 with the stock mapping without sync. It's easy. You'll quickly go "What the fuck are these old dudes talking about? A monkey could do this".
Yukiko Beauvil
20.06.2012
If you never mixed without using sync, it is not easy to get a hang on cdjs. If you still have time, check out the layout of the cdjs and try mixing on your s4 without using anything such as quantize/snap/sync etc. It might help you once you go there.
Elsie Golis
20.06.2012
does the OP even give a damn anymore, he hasn't been posting?
Anyways, I believe you should be able to beatmatch, bpm readouts on cdjs are useful but they can be wrong. What helps a lot too is tapping in the tempo on your mixer.

20.06.2012
I love the way that people just say 'don't waste time beatmatching, instead just do some reading and checking of the bpm on your CD key and a bit of mental calculation and adjust it that way', like that's simpler than just beatmatching it. Madness.

I would also love to hear some of Shishdisma's mixes to hear him not trainwreck stuff

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