DJ Battling, Scratching, Beat Juggling, Trick Mixing - Ask me anything
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DJ Battling, Scratching, Beat Juggling, Trick Mixing - Ask me anything Posted on: 26.06.2013 by Nelida Ghouse There have been some articles on these topics lately on the main page and it's stuff I believe I have some knowledge to share, so just putting the offer out there if anyone's interested in any of this stuff. If not then nothing lost . I also plan on doing some tutorials myself at some point so this might help me get an idea of where to direct that focus.Short bio: I'm 3x Canadian DJ champ (2x DMC, 1x IDA), and 2x world champ (2012 DMC Supremacy, 2012 IDA). I've been DJing for 9 years and won my 1st ever DJ battle in late 2011... so a lot has happened in the past 1.5-2 years and I'm definitely no natural at this stuff. Not gonna post links cuz I'd rather this topic be about the art, but if you wanna see stuff that I do and have questions about it look up Vekked on youtube. | |
| Arnulfo Morten 13.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
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| Nelida Ghouse 11.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
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| Nelida Ghouse 11.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
The good and bad thing about all this technology is that it gives you soooo many new possibilities, but because there are so many very few people are pushing features beyond their basic/intended use. I believe the real coolness starts when people start using stuff in ways that they weren't meant to be used or start developing techniques beyond just turning a feature on/off. Right now in the DJ world there are only a few guys pushing boundaries with it... most of them are the actual DJs hired to show off the features like Craze, Shiftee and Unkut, but I believe/hope before long that kind of stuff will become kind of standard. IMO the reason why there hasn't been a ton proven by digital DJing yet (as you say) is just that a lot of the new digital features barely enter people's creative processes yet. It's just becoming standard to use cue points/loops/sample banks and those are like the most basic of DVS features. Even for myself, I still have to push myself into a "experimental" mindset in order to try to incorporate new DVS stuff, it's not something I just believe of naturally, yet. So yea, I believe we're in a really exciting time of DJing and as long as there are DJs to take on the task, there are going to be some really cool innovations and trends come up. Hopefully this made sense, kinda went on a tangent, lol. |
| Arnulfo Morten 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=4544 i've heard that if you own traktor and decide to use a modified copy any sound card will work as well as you can aggregate cause the 62 has "core audio drivers" pm me if you need some help with it. |
| Nelida Ghouse 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by djfunke
Note that he's calling it the delayed two click flare, but it's the same scratch. Basically up until Q-bert released his Skratchlopedia DVD everyone called that scratch delayed 2 click flares, then Q-bert called it boomerangs and had another scratch named the delayed 2 click flare on his DVD. So confusing, 2 scratches with the same name, and 1 scratch with 2 different names :S. |
| Nelida Ghouse 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
I really wanna try Traktor now that the Z2 is out. I wasn't too keen before because since have the 57 and now the 62 I really don't wanna go back to a mixer without DVS in it. I don't feel particularly limited by Serato or anything but Traktor has some cool features like the macro fx and multiple loop points that I believe would be handy. Having the best of both worlds would be sweet. If only they made a Rane mixer that could use both Traktor and Serato... lol. |
| Juanita Locust 04.11.2013 | Hey man, just wanted to say thanks for everything. I've watched some of your vids before reading this and I'm glad i can now link the two. I'm 34 and been spinning since i was 12. Grew up in south florida so i was definitely influenced by that scene, ie, "freestyle" 808 bass etc. alot of folks crack up because they know there going to get some planet rock, Egypt, Jam on it from me. Anyway, i had to put it down for several years and I'm just now picking it up again. I've bought a used ns7 and I'm getting back into it. I had a real issue with the "digital" side because i grew up when it took talent and i look at it as an art form. My first set up i used two radio top turntables, ran them thru a receiver and put one on the left channel and another on the right and used the balance as a fader. But I'm slowly learning that technology isn't all bad. Lol. I'm realizing that all those things i thought about many years are now possible. Im glad to see current community s about this. It seems like everywhere i look nothing is current. Id love to see some tutorials, I'm halfway decent at juggling and i definitely can update my scratch vocabulary. I love that there are programs like audacity where i can create my own stuff. Keep up the good work and hope to see a tut when you get time. |
| Angelika Leforge 07.08.2013 | Signed up to say nice one Vekked this is some really useful stuff, I've seen a lot of your videos and they are all amazing. I would really like to see some beat juggling tutorials from you. Of the ones i have managed to find, the easiest to follow was when the person used the 123456789 from Ten crack commandments (i believe someone mentioned that earlier) and I would generally like to see some basic patterns or routines broken down simply. I hope to see some stuff soon |
| Angelika Leforge 06.08.2013 | Signed up to say nice one Vekked this is some really useful stuff, I've seen a lot of your videos and they are all amazing. I would really like to see some beat juggling tutorials from you. Of the ones i have managed to find, the easiest to follow was when the person used the 123456789 from Ten crack commandments (i believe someone mentioned that earlier) and I would generally like to see some basic patterns or routines broken down simply. I hope to see some stuff soon |
| Arnulfo Morten 13.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
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| Danae Dumler 11.07.2013 | I don't have the 62 but have read that it sends regular MIDI, not the weird proprietary shit that the 57 sends (which is why the 57 buttons are useless outside of Serato). If the 62 sends straight up midi, those buttons will map fine in Traktor! |
| Vince Presutto 11.07.2013 | Can't wait to see what you come up with, Vekked! |
| Nelida Ghouse 11.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
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| Nelida Ghouse 11.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
The good and bad thing about all this technology is that it gives you soooo many new possibilities, but because there are so many very few people are pushing features beyond their basic/intended use. I believe the real coolness starts when people start using stuff in ways that they weren't meant to be used or start developing techniques beyond just turning a feature on/off. Right now in the DJ world there are only a few guys pushing boundaries with it... most of them are the actual DJs hired to show off the features like Craze, Shiftee and Unkut, but I believe/hope before long that kind of stuff will become kind of standard. IMO the reason why there hasn't been a ton proven by digital DJing yet (as you say) is just that a lot of the new digital features barely enter people's creative processes yet. It's just becoming standard to use cue points/loops/sample banks and those are like the most basic of DVS features. Even for myself, I still have to push myself into a "experimental" mindset in order to try to incorporate new DVS stuff, it's not something I just believe of naturally, yet. So yea, I believe we're in a really exciting time of DJing and as long as there are DJs to take on the task, there are going to be some really cool innovations and trends come up. Hopefully this made sense, kinda went on a tangent, lol. |
| Arnulfo Morten 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=4544 i've heard that if you own traktor and decide to use a modified copy any sound card will work as well as you can aggregate cause the 62 has "core audio drivers" pm me if you need some help with it. |
| Judi Sissel 10.07.2013 | Vekked, so as someone who is a master of the craft, where do you see technology fitting into turntablism or other routine based DJ'ing? What about DJ'ing as a whole? I am not trying to make this into a sync vs. beatmatching debate, but its very seldom that we get a person who is clearly knowledgeable, articulate and willing to answer questions in length. IMO, as a digital DJ, I feel like there isn't much that has been proven by the digital DJ world to advance DJ'ing (YET). Any additional thoughts? |
| Ranae Anglebrandt 09.07.2013 | What's Canada like? |
| Nelida Ghouse 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by djfunke
Note that he's calling it the delayed two click flare, but it's the same scratch. Basically up until Q-bert released his Skratchlopedia DVD everyone called that scratch delayed 2 click flares, then Q-bert called it boomerangs and had another scratch named the delayed 2 click flare on his DVD. So confusing, 2 scratches with the same name, and 1 scratch with 2 different names :S. |
| Nelida Ghouse 09.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
I really wanna try Traktor now that the Z2 is out. I wasn't too keen before because since have the 57 and now the 62 I really don't wanna go back to a mixer without DVS in it. I don't feel particularly limited by Serato or anything but Traktor has some cool features like the macro fx and multiple loop points that I believe would be handy. Having the best of both worlds would be sweet. If only they made a Rane mixer that could use both Traktor and Serato... lol. |
| Ninfa Mazariegos 09.07.2013 | I've seen a few of your videos and you are a beast! I got myself a proper scratch mixer about eight months ago and have since then mastered much of the basics, but the hardest scratch to get my head around is the boomerang. Can you do a video on it? |
| Arnulfo Morten 08.07.2013 | ^Real Talk right there take em to church Vekked Couple of questons Hows DJ Shiftee like? You ever consider going Traktor? |
| Nelida Ghouse 08.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJKyleHughes
-Rule #1 of scratching in a club/mix/etc is DON'T SCRATCH OVER THE VOCALS. There's the odd exception, but in general scratching takes up the same space as vocals do in a song so they clash really bad. The only time I believe it's pretty safe is when you're scratching in a kick drum about to drop in another song. Even then you gotta make sure you dropped the bass on 1 track so the bass doesn't clash. -An extension of that rule is don't scratch clashing sounds in general. Most scratching is done with vocals or lead type samples, so as a result you're not gonna do much scratching over vocals or lead samples. If a song is heavy on the low end, you don't want to be scratching bass, but you might be able to get away with scratching a melody sound. -If a song doesn't have vocals, in theory it'll sound find to scratch vocals a lot more. This makes stuff like Trap and Dubstep pretty good for scratching on, as opposed to top 40 or something. However, in practice you have to actually be good at scratching. The better you are at scratching the more you're going to be able to scratch tastefully. Just because a track has plenty of space for scratching doesn't mean it should be scratched over no matter what, lol. -If a sample you're scratching has a discernable key... make sure it's in key with the song you're scratching on, of course. -Avoid traditional scratch samples unless you really have a reason to use them (aka they fit the song you're scratching over well). Most people use "scratch samples" because that's what most scratching uses, but often times they don't fit the stuff they're scratching on and seems kinda forced. They're great for practicing, but I believe you should lean towards using samples you would already be inclined to include in your mix. If it's a sample/acapella you would never be using otherwise, then it's probably not the best choice to scratch. I believe a lot of the better club scratchers these days, like Hedspin/FCZ/Shiftee, use stuff that would probably mix well anyways, then they scratch it to add their own flavour and make it even more unique. Like they could just loop an acapella and mix it in like most people do, or they could scratch it and switch between blending for a few bars and scratching for a few. Hedspin does a lot of scratch synths/guitars/etc over intro drum breaks which I believe is really cool. I opened for Shiftee last weekend and he did a 30 minute set and barely touched a "scratch sample" but did heaps of scratching with acapellas, stems, melodies, etc from songs he was mixing in. The last thing is don't really believe of it like "I'm not trying to be a turntablist so I only have to learn the basics". You're basically saying "I'm a club DJ so I don't have to learn to scratch THAT good", which is basically what 90% of club DJs believe, and then they suck at scratching. If you look at the Thre3style world finals, all of those guys are pretty much established club DJs, and most of them are BEASTS at scratching. There's videos of Thre3style scratch sessions at the hotel or backstage of the world finals and there's like a dozen guys all killing it. These guys didn't say "I'm just a club DJ so I'm going to just learn the basics", these guys decided to become really good at everything and not put limits on themselves. You don't have to become a scratch nerd and lock yourself in your room for years rubbing records, but if you really want to add scratching to your skillset you can't just put in a couple hours a week and not do any studying and expect to make any progress. Dive right in, shoot to become really good, and then one day you'll be able to do pretty much everything you want with it and you won't have to practice every day to maintain. **Some of this stuff might be too basic or not basic enough. A lot of scratching in clubs is applying the same theory of mixing like matching keys and avoiding clashing frequencies and applying that to scratch samples. Let me know if there's other specific stuff you'd like me to touch on when I get around to doing a video. |
| Wilson Durrum 08.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJKyleHughes
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| Noriko Lebowitz 08.07.2013 | Any word on when you could maybe do that tutorial? |
| Noriko Lebowitz 05.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by haze324
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| Nelida Ghouse 04.07.2013 | no probs fokaisnake!
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
Nah I'm not a fan of Thre3style really, I've judged a couple and been to 4-5 others and to me it's a bit of a joke competition... Like it's an awesome idea, format is cool, some sick sets and DJs have come out of it, but it suffers from many of the things that pretty much all corporate DJ battles have suffered from in the past. It's ran by a company that is ultimately concerned with how many drinks they sell, not with DJing or DJ culture, and it seeps into the competition. My main beefs: 1) It's not open entry (maybe in some places), so most people don't know how to enter, or don't get invited. So right off the bat instead of the competition being among the best DJs in the format, it's among the best DJs who get to enter. Who knows how many amazing DJs don't get a chance to enter because of this. 2) The regional judging is often a complete farce. You have these DJs spending hours, weeks, months on their routine to get judged by a panel of promoters, bar owners, even bar staff, etc. If you're lucky you get someone in the music industry like a producer, or maybe a DJ who's probably not any more skilled than half the entrants. 3) The judging criteria is skewed towards basically playing top 40 and bringing people with you. It's one thing to talk about being good at rocking the party, and another thing to have a competition judged on rocking the party. It's so subjective and results in legitimate DJs getting robbed by popular DJs. I've heard other random stories of politics that I can't verify cuz I wasn't there, like Four Color Zack was put out in the 1st round of world finals and brought back for the final and won. Pretty disgusting if it's true. In short, to me competitions in general should be set up in a way that results in the highest chance that the winner is actually the best DJ in a given format. Thre3style doesn't do a great job of this. That said, I wouldn't recommend that NO ONE enters it just because it doesn't make sense for me to. If you do enter, do it for competition experience and take the results (good or bad) with a grain of salt. |
| Arnulfo Morten 03.07.2013 | thanks for the clarification yea i believe your write about the 62 and the 1:1 thing. I use an innofader pro and about to bite the bullet on the 62. You ever consider Redbull Three Style? Thats what i'm shooting for once i feel comfortable enough with my cuts. |
| Nevada Edgette 03.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
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| Nelida Ghouse 02.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by P4ULSON
Also when I make scratch sentences in my DAW I set it to 99.99 BPM and if you snap the beginning of each sample to the grid every sticker will be your next sample. The reason for 99.99 BPM is that the turntable spins at 33 1/3 RPM, so if you set your DAW to 33 1/3 BPM you'll have 1 sticker per rotation, 66.66 will give you 2 stickers per rotation, 99.99 = 3, 133.33 =4, etc. So my Serato records all have 3 stickers, and the one with 2 is actual vinyl and the people who pressed it must have had their daw for 66.66 BPM when they made their sentences because the samples fall every half rotation. As for the 62 via USB, I'm not actually sure the latency is 1:1 like you say. I could be wrong but unlike with the Z2, the 62 fader still acts as a normal fader even when you're using DVS, as opposed to the Z2 where the fader becomes a midi device. Regardless I can answer the question anyways, more latency = worse, even if it's 1:1, and fader latency is worse than record latency generally. I don't believe 1:1 latency really matter cuz although everything would be in sync with each other and you could scratch fine acapella, everything would be consistently off beat a tad when you tried to put it over music, because you're reacting to what you hear. I've scratched on setups where the turntables were ran through a sampler or soundcard that created a bit of latency and it was a evening mare to scratch on even though to people listening it didn't sound much different. Latency isn't really an issue with DVS these days, as long as your hardware is solid it's going to 95%+ on point. It's more so stuff like how the needles reads control vinyl vs. how it reads real vinyl... certain stuff doesn't sound the same because on vinyl the sound comes from the movement of the needle on the sound as well as external vibrations. There's a certain bassiness/fullness that you get with certain scratches that is completely gone on DVS and changes the sound. There's other subtle differences because DVS is still just an emulation of the real thing (albeit a very good emulation), so if I'm practicing to improve/learn I'm still using vinyl, if I'm performing/showcasing I'm using DVS. |
| Arnulfo Morten 02.07.2013 | yo Vekked in this video i see you mark your right record with 3 dots and 2 on your left with whats up with that? how much different is it scratching with the 62 which is usb midi and sound card that runs together with the dvs so the latency ratio between the vinyl and fader are 1:1 vs using a sl2 and a analog mixer like the vestax? |
| Julissa Serrone 27.06.2013 | Sarasin ---- yes I'm with you man!! Q's tutorial that discusses theory talks (and I'm going off memory here) about scratching in bars, counting the halfs, counting the halfs of halfs, so that your scratches are not just on time with the beat but also in phrase and thats how you create the use of an instrument with scratching. He also says that halfs of halfs don't have to be on time and swithcing up tempos within the bar. This way you can spice up the same scractch and still drop on the 1. It's a really good video, but the ONLY one I've ever checked out that goes into that level of detail, maybe there's more, but not many readily accessable. So yeah, when playing out it would be great to learn some theory putting this together into a set vs. just learning a crab scratch. Some ideas for you Vekked. Thanks again for this post. |
| Nelida Ghouse 27.06.2013 | ok cool, I'll have to do some believeing about practical club/mix scratching ideas. I believe with certain styles of music there's a lot of room for it nowadays too, like a lot of Trap is super scratch friendly, whereas a lot of Top 40/music with plenty of vocals there's not as much room outside of the odd transition unless you get creative with instrumentals/acapellas/etc. |
| Lilliana Perris 27.06.2013 | I agree with Haze. Implementation would be a GREAT tut! I am not battling either...and do scratch when I play out, when I backup my mate who plays his music live. I would love to end up being a backing DJ for a band etc. I can mix and blend and 4 deck etc...so that is old hat to me know. To keep myself interested in the art of DJing, I have started scratching. So this would really be a lot of help to me! I can do the basics, but using it during a set would be great to learn more on. |
| Lilliana Perris 27.06.2013 |
Originally Posted by Vekked
Like Smitten...I am too on my journey to be a DMC champ...perhaps the oldest...if i beat Smitten. I dont have a hell of a lot of time to practice these days, but when I do..its only scratching. I been playing since '96. Started on vinyls and moved to CDJ's and then Controllers and lastly incorporated DVS. I would also love to see your tuts and learn more. Thanks for the offer dude! |
| Johnsie Kingrea 26.06.2013 | So far i've found the only way to learn the proper placement for scratching is by listening to guys like Craze, who can seem to scratch with any genre and it works. |
| Julissa Serrone 26.06.2013 | Yeah exactly man. There's tons of videos explaining transform.......big deal. True application and how it applies to the music you are playing or your set is something that I haven't seen many tutorials on (only Q's Skratch U). I believe for you personally these types of tutorials would also go a long way as there are no other ones posted for folks to check out. |
| Nelida Ghouse 26.06.2013 | Yea, like some more practical videos on how to put the scratches in action, when to use them and when not to, as opposed to just dry technique right? Definitely important stuff to learn for sure... I hear plenty of guys at bars/clubs/in mix competitions who can scratch at an ok to decent level but choose really bad times to use it. I believe it results in a lot of DJs saying you shouldn't scratch in clubs/mixes/etc, or being afraid to scratch in those situations, because so many DJs do it poorly. |
| Julissa Serrone 26.06.2013 | This dude is dope for those that don't know him. Props for making this thread. Tutorials: One thing I find many tutorials skip out on is Scratch Theory. Many focus on how to transform, stabs, chirps, etc. but not how to effectively use that when you play out at a evening club. Qberts Skratch U has a pretty good tutorial on timing, and half's, and not halfing on time, etc. to create different sounds but putting it together there is some scratch theory behind it that takes knowledge and practice. I consider myself an expert novice scratch DJ. I don't do anything much more than a few stabs and a babyscratch like a novice, but the intent is not for a battle, but to use this when dropping tracks at a set at a club. When really there are more DJ's playing at clubs than there are entering battles. I believe it would be beneficial for a tutorial on enhancing your gig set with certain scratches and the theory behind it (bars, counts, timing, dropping on the 1, etc.) I've only found one on Q's site. Great thread man. |
| Johnsie Kingrea 26.06.2013 | Haha how funny that we just talked about this gemini mixer an hour ago. It was great chatting with you man. |
| Nelida Ghouse 26.06.2013 |
Originally Posted by beisi
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