What gear should I get to learn how to scratch on?

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What gear should I get to learn how to scratch on?
Posted on: 24.08.2012 by Lessie Becoats
I want to get a main set for my room, and take out on special occasions.

I already have a S2, but I want a mixer and some turntables, what do you guys recommend? I can't spend a lot of money
Shonda Soulier
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by oliosky
Bang on. Also wow and flutter spec sheet numbers are pretty arbitrary and don't neccesarily translate to the real world. Like you said, the biggest issue is tech users getting used to the stronger (better???) motor and quicker response.
this is something i've heard a lot actually...that the torque on the audio technica 210 and DJ tech sl1300 is stronger. but does that necessarily make it better?

i'm interested to see a blind scratch test between the AT120s and the T1200s to see if there's any noticeable difference.
Johnetta Olewine
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by LoopCat
It is written in the stanton manual as less than 1.0

http://www.stantondj.com/pdf/manuals/st150_manual.pdf

I've used both turntables and I know dj's that have/played with both and the difference is NOT in the wow and flutter. Adjusting to the pitch fader and the pushing the platter is where allot of people struggle with the Super OEM decks. They don't need as much of a push most of the time to get to speed. Most DJ's that have learnt on Technics mix by pushing the record and moving the fader instinctively on these turntables and get freaked out when their mixes go out of phase... they are just not used to the motor! Get two of the same records throw them at the same time on a 150 and they stay in time extremely well.

Fair enough Technics are a safe bet for a club install because most Dj's will be at home but to write the super OEM's off as crap a turntables is pretty dumb and ignorant. There are tons of people that use them and love them - people that have gone from techs to super oem and prefer them and also the other way around. There is no need to go over the top and bash on brands and peoples gear so you can feel superior about your precious techs this debate has been done to death get over it.
Bang on. Also wow and flutter spec sheet numbers are pretty arbitrary and don't neccesarily translate to the real world. Like you said, the biggest issue is tech users getting used to the stronger (better???) motor and quicker response.
Frieda Swoboda
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
You need an Audio 4/6/8/10 soundcard, S4 or one of the scratch certified mixers to use Traktor with timecode vinyl.
Thanks. So I need an Audio 4 and an external mixer or just the Audio 4?

Sorry for the simple question, I just never looked into turntables before.
Len Lukawski
28.08.2012
As long as they don't get to hit the start button.
Shonda Soulier
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by oliosky
Bang on. Also wow and flutter spec sheet numbers are pretty arbitrary and don't neccesarily translate to the real world. Like you said, the biggest issue is tech users getting used to the stronger (better???) motor and quicker response.
this is something i've heard a lot actually...that the torque on the audio technica 210 and DJ tech sl1300 is stronger. but does that necessarily make it better?

i'm interested to see a blind scratch test between the AT120s and the T1200s to see if there's any noticeable difference.
Johnetta Olewine
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by LoopCat
It is written in the stanton manual as less than 1.0

http://www.stantondj.com/pdf/manuals/st150_manual.pdf

I've used both turntables and I know dj's that have/played with both and the difference is NOT in the wow and flutter. Adjusting to the pitch fader and the pushing the platter is where allot of people struggle with the Super OEM decks. They don't need as much of a push most of the time to get to speed. Most DJ's that have learnt on Technics mix by pushing the record and moving the fader instinctively on these turntables and get freaked out when their mixes go out of phase... they are just not used to the motor! Get two of the same records throw them at the same time on a 150 and they stay in time extremely well.

Fair enough Technics are a safe bet for a club install because most Dj's will be at home but to write the super OEM's off as crap a turntables is pretty dumb and ignorant. There are tons of people that use them and love them - people that have gone from techs to super oem and prefer them and also the other way around. There is no need to go over the top and bash on brands and peoples gear so you can feel superior about your precious techs this debate has been done to death get over it.
Bang on. Also wow and flutter spec sheet numbers are pretty arbitrary and don't neccesarily translate to the real world. Like you said, the biggest issue is tech users getting used to the stronger (better???) motor and quicker response.
Nedra Fresneda
28.08.2012
You can map your APC for the job.
Frieda Swoboda
28.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
You need an Audio 4/6/8/10 soundcard, S4 or one of the scratch certified mixers to use Traktor with timecode vinyl.
Thanks. So I need an Audio 4 and an external mixer or just the Audio 4?

Sorry for the simple question, I just never looked into turntables before.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
28.08.2012
You need an Audio 4/6/8/10 soundcard, S4 or one of the scratch certified mixers to use Traktor with timecode vinyl.
Frieda Swoboda
28.08.2012
Say I want to scratch samples inside of Traktor, not physical records. So what exactly would I need?

I have Traktor and an APC 40 with a decent crossfader, and an audio interface with plenty of inputs and outputs and two inputs have a pre-amp.

Would I just need a turntable and the timecode vinyl or do I need any other additional hardware?
Ming Devis
27.08.2012
It is written in the stanton manual as less than 1.0

http://www.stantondj.com/pdf/manuals/st150_manual.pdf

I've used both turntables and I know dj's that have/played with both and the difference is NOT in the wow and flutter. Adjusting to the pitch fader and the pushing the platter is where allot of people struggle with the Super OEM decks. They don't need as much of a push most of the time to get to speed. Most DJ's that have learnt on Technics mix by pushing the record and moving the fader instinctively on these turntables and get freaked out when their mixes go out of phase... they are just not used to the motor! Get two of the same records throw them at the same time on a 150 and they stay in time extremely well.

Fair enough Technics are a safe bet for a club install because most Dj's will be at home but to write the super OEM's off as crap a turntables is pretty dumb and ignorant. There are tons of people that use them and love them - people that have gone from techs to super oem and prefer them and also the other way around. There is no need to go over the top and bash on brands and peoples gear so you can feel superior about your precious techs this debate has been done to death get over it.
Sparkle Faldyn
27.08.2012
That question more to the hardcore fanboys of the "SuperOEM"'s though.

From another community :

"You could also read the technical specs on the clones -- if they're even provided -- to get some idea of how close they come in performance to the SL-1200. The key areas in which most of the clones fall short are wow and flutter, which Technics specified at 0.025% WRMS for the SL-1200, and rumble, which Technics specified at -78 dB. The Stanton's wow and flutter is 0.1%, four times what an SL-1200 delivers."
Brunilda Kora
27.08.2012
I do:

Sparkle Faldyn
27.08.2012
Do you guys even get the concept of wow and flutter?
Sparkle Faldyn
27.08.2012
The legend of a cheap chinese knock-off? Sure.
Shonda Soulier
27.08.2012
The legend of SuperOEM lives on... I'm yet to see one in person! They're extremely rare in the US.
Sparkle Faldyn
27.08.2012
I would LOVE to see that! But the techs are built like a tank, and will withstand nearly any beating you give them, THAT's why they're the industry standard and why you see them in every club, there's just no hassle with them at all. I've seen smaller clubs that just started out and they've bought non-12x0 tt's (str8's, st150s, ttx-1 etc), against my advice, and they've always come back red as a ferrari asking if they could please buy some 1210s.
Ming Devis
27.08.2012
Originally Posted by snoemu5a
Except the tone-arm breaks just by looking at it. Techs will last you 30-40 years without breaking, you can pour a litre of vodka on the 1210 and it'll still keep playing. you can't say that about anything from Stanton.
You can shoot a Stanton turntable with a missile from an Apache helicopter and it will still work! I swear bro!
Sparkle Faldyn
27.08.2012
Originally Posted by oliosky
you are a fucking idiot. Having owned techs and a bunch of super OEm decks, the stanton St150s are superior to 1200s in every way for scratching. Only fanboy morons who haven't used them say otherwise.
Except the tone-arm breaks just by looking at it. Techs will last you 30-40 years without breaking, you can pour a litre of vodka on the 1210 and it'll still keep playing. you can't say that about anything from Stanton.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
27.08.2012
I started on Pioneers sorry excuse for a turntable 4500 something, Mixing on techs for the first time was amazing! I have Super OEM's now after selling my techs a few years ago, The OEM's are much better at scratching due to the high torque, but they have nothing on techs in the beatmatching department, they do what the pitch fader tells them but you can push techs and they keep their speed so you can mix more gently, you have to get a bit more rough with Super OEM's which can lead to sometimes knocking the phase out if until you get use to them, tech's are very intuitive pressure wise. If Mk5's weren't so damn expensive in Australia I'd probably get a pair but prefer OEM's to 1200/1210's (especially stanton 150's as they are fully optioned)
Johnetta Olewine
26.08.2012
Many years ago, early on, when I was just playing at home I read and heard other DJs constantly talk about playing on 1200s and how it was a massive step up from other gear and how great they were to mix onetc etc. I was all super hyped and when I finally played out on 1200s I was so dissapointed

They felt pretty much the same as my old stanton st100s that i got to start out. Torque felt the same, tracking was about the same. They might have held their pitch abit better but only when you were nowhere near the fluctuation around the horrible 0 pitch click. Overall I walked away pretty damn underwhelmed...

So yeah, I don't believe the hype. But I do respect the 1200 and its place in DJ folklore.
Len Lukawski
26.08.2012
says the man who paid $900
Len Lukawski
26.08.2012
BUT there is always someone on Craigslist (or similar) selling a pair of Techs for $250 if you keep your eyes peeled.
Ming Devis
26.08.2012
Originally Posted by oliosky
Yeah I guess. But given you can pick up a pair of ST150s in near perfect condition for $500. It just seems crazy.

Don't get me wrong, 1200s are fantastic TTs with an amazing history and I love playing on them, but the wankery surrounding them, especially now that they have been discontinued is nuts.
^ It's true they are talked up a bit too much and can be found at stupid prices. It gets annoying when people say Technics or nothing or no table comes close or better. I would say performance wise the Super OEM's are better and cheaper.
Len Lukawski
26.08.2012
The man above is correct. I paid $900 for 2 x 1200 MK5s + flights + carts/needles. Granted these things are immaculate and I got them from someone who had clearly NEVER used them but a pair of ST150s for $500 would be ideal.
Johnetta Olewine
26.08.2012
Originally Posted by LoopCat
Well you don't have to buy beat up, you can get a good looking tech for around 400 - 500 each if you look hard enough. Aesthetics and prestige means allot to some people.
Yeah I guess. But given you can pick up a pair of ST150s in near perfect condition for $500. It just seems crazy.

Don't get me wrong, 1200s are fantastic TTs with an amazing history and I love playing on them, but the wankery surrounding them, especially now that they have been discontinued is nuts.
Len Lukawski
26.08.2012
I use 1200 mk5s + S4 with an Innofader. I had 1210s for years which is why I picked up a "new" set of Technics this year. Before that I had the Numark TTXs and they are a superb deck to scratch on, probably better than the 1200s. I got the 1200s out of nostalgia (and they keep slightly better time for beat mixing than anything else).

That other idiot banging on about Technics or nothing is well, an idiot.
Ming Devis
26.08.2012
Well you don't have to buy beat up, you can get a good looking tech for around 400 - 500 each if you look hard enough. Aesthetics and prestige means allot to some people.
Johnetta Olewine
26.08.2012
So it's just aesthetics and the 'prestige' of owning 1200s regardless of how beat up they are?

I don't buy the whole club standard bollocks. If you have the skills to scratch well , you can do that on any decent tt.
Ming Devis
26.08.2012
Originally Posted by oliosky
I am at a loss why anyone would buy a single beat up 1200 for $300+ when you can get 2 super OEM decks for less than $400. Its stupidity. Its like buying a 5 year old macbook over a current PC because of an Apple logo. Paying more for less.
I own a set of str8 150's myself but I can see the appeal of the Techs. No turntable has matched them in the looks department especially the black MK5's. Most clubs do have tech's as well which can make it a bit easier to adjust to the torque although a good DJ should be able to adjust to different decks fairly easily. The re-sale value is really good as well so if you want to get something else selling them is easy. I will probably buy a set one day.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
26.08.2012
I could be mistaken, that's what my mate told me.. I have scratched on one and it's a nice fader, the eq sounds pretty crap in comparison to better scratch mixers though, but when scratching you barely ever do anything with the eq but turn down the bass.
Johnetta Olewine
26.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
don't use a "dj kit", they are toys...

Get a set of super OEM tables and a stanton SA-3 mixer (it's a tiny mixer with a wicked P&G crossfader) although I believe the behringer NOX series all accept their infinium crossfader so that could be another slightly more expensive alternative. The last option is to get any mixer that accepts an innofader but an innofader cost's more than most cheap mixers and more than an SA-3. You will still need at least an Audio 4 to run everything though.

I wouldn't attempt to use the crossfader on the S2. If you used different software I'd suggest the stanton djc.4 as it allows timecode control, and has a great crossfader & great hanpin construction quality with more than enough buttons, encoders and knobs to do anything you want with.

And can you fix your signature calgarc it has been annoying me... just close the url tag properly with a forward slash / eg.
[/url]
The SA3 doesn't have a P&G crossfader AFAIK. Also the NOX series actually ships with the infinium fader installed so no upgrade is needed. And the infinium fader and NOX series are pretty solid options for sub $300 scratch mixers. Plus Behringer offers a 3 year warranty these days.

I am at a loss why anyone would buy a single beat up 1200 for $300+ when you can get 2 super OEM decks for less than $400. Its stupidity. Its like buying a 5 year old macbook over a current PC because of an Apple logo. Paying more for less.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
26.08.2012
don't use a "dj kit", they are toys...

Get a set of super OEM tables and a stanton SA-3 mixer (it's a tiny mixer with a wicked P&G crossfader) although I believe the behringer NOX series all accept their infinium crossfader so that could be another slightly more expensive alternative. The last option is to get any mixer that accepts an innofader but an innofader cost's more than most cheap mixers and more than an SA-3. You will still need at least an Audio 4 to run everything though.

I wouldn't attempt to use the crossfader on the S2. If you used different software I'd suggest the stanton djc.4 as it allows timecode control, and has a great crossfader & great hanpin construction quality with more than enough buttons, encoders and knobs to do anything you want with.

And can you fix your signature calgarc it has been annoying me... just close the url tag properly with a forward slash / eg.
[/url]
Reda Holdsworth
26.08.2012
I'd be on the lookout for a used 1200's. I just scored 2 for 400 bucks (2nd time in the past year BTW). They are a little beat up but all cosmetic. It's what I've always used so that's what I can recommend.
Stanley Topoleski
26.08.2012
if ya wanna scratch just use your ass... lol but in all seriousness, find a used DJ kit from numark or stanon etc...
Freida Leash
26.08.2012
If I were buying a new TT it would be the stanton... used I would still probably lean towards a 1200. I really am a Technics fanboy, they really made a solid piece of gear, but that day is done and the stantons seem like the current champion.
Spencer Kilcoyne
25.08.2012
Get decks, 1200/1210s/SuperOEM/Stanton STR8 150s are all good.

You can do the basics with any mixer, though getting something with a GOOD crosfader, and nice clear area around the faders is a plus in the longer term
Ossie Pooley
25.08.2012
Originally Posted by snoemu5a
Save your money for 1200/1210's. Anything else is shite, and only a f*cking noob would tell you otherwise.
Shame on you, sir.
Johnetta Olewine
25.08.2012
Originally Posted by snoemu5a
Save your money for 1200/1210's. Anything else is shite, and only a f*cking noob would tell you otherwise.
you are a fucking idiot. Having owned techs and a bunch of super OEm decks, the stanton St150s are superior to 1200s in every way for scratching. Only fanboy morons who haven't used them say otherwise.
Sparkle Faldyn
25.08.2012
Save your money for 1200/1210's. Anything else is shite, and only a f*cking noob would tell you otherwise.

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