Is EDM Killing Techno/House? I've noticed in my own home town that the club scene has exploded with the EDM culture. Rare is it to find a club/venue that plays pure House and Techno.
We used to have a decent venue that hosted underground evening
s on a bi-weekly or at the very least, monthly basis. However, Tiesto happened to come along and destroy our sacred establishment. Tiesto demanded that the club be opened up (the club has an upstairs and downstairs) so as to accommodate a larger amount of people. The stage was moved to the 2nd floor balcony which over looked the main room, and the upstairs wall which separated the two rooms was removed so people could view Tiesto from directly across.
In the process of doing this, the club owners managed to ruin the sound system and acoustics of the secondary room. Any time there's an underground evening
, there's conflicting sound from the downstairs mainroom which plays pop/rap/EDM so it throws the dancers off and requires you to awkwardly beatmatch to dance.
They put up another wall since then but the sound has never recovered. The owners saw more money in the mainstream EDM movement and focused their resources towards the growth of that scene instead. So now we're left with a venue that has flat sound and poor service. It's obvious that the owners don't put their all into developing or promoting the second room of the club and it shows in the atmosphere. Now I've heard that they want to shut down the second room and revamp it, which I only hope can be for the better and not the worse. The second room has slowly started to loose money and it's customer basis, with fewer regulars showing up each event.
We've been trying to ferment an underground scene but it seems that some people are too occupied with their own business at the moment (we had one successful underground evening
at an undisclosed venue put on by ourselves with no outside promoter).
I really want to see the underground thrive but I'm not quite sure how to go about it, and I fear that Techno/Underground is fading away. Do people just not like Techno/House? I know there's a small group of dedicated fans here but no one to coalesce them.
How is the underground scene in your area, is it a loss cause trying to support Techno? Is the future EDM/Pop? What are your thoughts on this matter? |
Peggy Gabrielson
10.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by backtothefront
I tend to agree with this. I don't there is such an issue in the UK in general.
My view is 'EDM' is mostly a recent (last couple of years) US phenomena; basically a shift away from the traditional staple diet of R&B, Rap, Rock and Country which generally dominates the US Top40. Now we have US R&B/Rap artists teaming up with dance music producers to knock out commercial, chart friendly pop electronic music or 'EDM' as it's known. UK/Europe went through something similar in terms of big, charting dance music in the 90's - this still happens to some extent but the underground dance music scene (of many different genres) is well established for 2 decades now.
Someone mentioned elitism further up the thread, I don't believe this is the case, moreover a frustration that 'EDM' is dominating the attention of the wider listenership, particularly in the US who are just beginning to get in to 4/4 dance music albeit not a particularly good version of it and who don't know any better than Guetta. Don't get me wrong this is not a dig at the US, House Music originated from there but it was in the UK & Europe where it exploded in the early 90's. The US are just catching up to some extent.
So glad I live in London when I heard underworld dark and long being played during the OLYMPIC OPENING CEREMONY , I was like yes, the uk is the king of dance music. |
Gerard Cowin
09.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by vecdir
Ugh, it's horrible. Every club here is just top40 over and over and over and over again, mixed with a little bit of electro house or maybe some prog.
This is what I'm talking about, it seems that top40/electrouse/progressive has overshadowed Techno/House. You try bringing up Techno to these people and they believe Deadmau5 is Techno... As well it seems that because "EDM" (for lack of a better umbrella term) blew up this past year, that the underground is getting less and less attention, unfortunately |
Marvella Lofurno
09.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
I hear in London (Ontario) it's even worse with there being absolutely no underground scene, so that is why I've brought this up.
Ugh, it's horrible. Every club here is just top40 over and over and over and over again, mixed with a little bit of electro house or maybe some prog. |
Edwardo Rothenberger
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
So I guess that means that those of us who are passionate about this music, have to step up to the plate and get things done ourselves.
That's exactly it.
If you want to play out as a DJ, or have a great place to go. Make it yourself.
I put on a bash where I Dj'd in a small wine bar because I just wanted to play out, and it was awesome. At the time my Dj mate wanted to try and make it big time and therefore didn't want to start up something regular, which was a shame, but with passion you can definitely do it.
Find a small venue to start. I'm a bit past it now, but I assume people still give flyers out at the end of club evening
s. |
Gerard Cowin
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by souldancer
Since house came along, the genres with in it have shifted. And this will go on. in 1986 all the punk and new wavers told me house would die a quick death. It's still here. In 1989 Gabber techno etcetera started to take their place, and i had dj friends that had the same worries like you. Gabber took a flight and became hardcore. But look in 2012 house is still here.
If you want to stay into your genre find a new place or adapt and work and educate the crowd that you have by integrating some of the stuff that you like. And win them back.
This is a very helpful insight, to adapt and work the crowd into the underground. Perhaps adapting to the changing house landscape by including modern hits and implementing my own style of Techno, maybe, just maybe I could slowly ween the kids into the underground music. The main thing is that I want to play out, but since there's no stable venue at the moment, the scene is in a stasis at the moment.
I want to breath new life into the scene, I know there's people out there that love Techno/House, there's just no stability with the venue situation and the current promoters are more keen on dragging in the cash rather than promoting the scene (atleast from what I have gathered). So I guess that means that those of us who are passionate about this music, have to step up to the plate and get things done ourselves. |
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
It's true. Look at the mullet as an example. For a long time only backwoods rednecks had mullets. Before you know it, David Beckham is sporting a mullet. Footballers and punters everywhere take to it. Now mullets are everywhere.
I was believeing more along the lines of rock and roll, punk, house and techno, but mullets work too.
|
Shonda Soulier
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
Underground scene in US starts something -> Gets completely ignored by the vast majority of the population of the US -> Gets picked up by the Brits/Euros -> Gets sold back in some horribly diluted form back to the US mainstream who lap it up.
It's true. Look at the mullet as an example. For a long time only backwoods rednecks had mullets. Before you know it, David Beckham is sporting a mullet. Footballers and punters everywhere take to it. Now mullets are everywhere. |
Shonda Soulier
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
yup, i also remember brown paper bag by roni size being played all the time along with aphex twin late at evening
on mtv. crazy days.
AMP was the reason I got into electronic music. Aphex Twin's "Come to Daddy" changed my life. |
Dorcas Bassignani
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
But in the meantime he completely destroyed our scene... Wouldn't you feel displaced after something like that?? He doesn't even pay DJs to spin and expects them to do all the promoting.
for all thoses reasons; fuck.him |
Lashawn Maycock
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Lilac
It's really not a problem here in London. Maybe it's just because it's such a vast city but if you're into anything, search hard enough and yee shall find.
I tend to agree with this. I don't there is such an issue in the UK in general.
My view is 'EDM' is mostly a recent (last couple of years) US phenomena; basically a shift away from the traditional staple diet of R&B, Rap, Rock and Country which generally dominates the US Top40. Now we have US R&B/Rap artists teaming up with dance music producers to knock out commercial, chart friendly pop electronic music or 'EDM' as it's known. UK/Europe went through something similar in terms of big, charting dance music in the 90's - this still happens to some extent but the underground dance music scene (of many different genres) is well established for 2 decades now.
Someone mentioned elitism further up the thread, I don't believe this is the case, moreover a frustration that 'EDM' is dominating the attention of the wider listenership, particularly in the US who are just beginning to get in to 4/4 dance music albeit not a particularly good version of it and who don't know any better than Guetta. Don't get me wrong this is not a dig at the US, House Music originated from there but it was in the UK & Europe where it exploded in the early 90's. The US are just catching up to some extent. |
Ossie Pooley
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
I've noticed in my own home town that the club scene has exploded with the EDM culture. Rare is it to find a club/venue that plays pure House and Techno.
We used to have a decent venue that hosted underground evening
s on a bi-weekly or at the very least, monthly basis. However, Tiesto happened to come along and destroy our sacred establishment. Tiesto demanded that the club be opened up (the club has an upstairs and downstairs) so as to accommodate a larger amount of people. The stage was moved to the 2nd floor balcony which over looked the main room, and the upstairs wall which separated the two rooms was removed so people could view Tiesto from directly across.
In the process of doing this, the club owners managed to ruin the sound system and acoustics of the secondary room. Any time there's an underground evening
, there's conflicting sound from the downstairs mainroom which plays pop/rap/EDM so it throws the dancers off and requires you to awkwardly beatmatch to dance.
They put up another wall since then but the sound has never recovered. The owners saw more money in the mainstream EDM movement and focused their resources towards the growth of that scene instead. So now we're left with a venue that has flat sound and poor service. It's obvious that the owners don't put their all into developing or promoting the second room of the club and it shows in the atmosphere. Now I've heard that they want to shut down the second room and revamp it, which I only hope can be for the better and not the worse. The second room has slowly started to loose money and it's customer basis, with fewer regulars showing up each event.
We've been trying to ferment an underground scene but it seems that some people are too occupied with their own business at the moment (we had one successful underground evening
at an undisclosed venue put on by ourselves with no outside promoter).
I really want to see the underground thrive but I'm not quite sure how to go about it, and I fear that Techno/Underground is fading away. Do people just not like Techno/House? I know there's a small group of dedicated fans here but no one to coalesce them.
How is the underground scene in your area, is it a loss cause trying to support Techno? Is the future EDM/Pop? What are your thoughts on this matter?
It's really not a problem here in London. Maybe it's just because it's such a vast city but if you're into anything, search hard enough and yee shall find. |
Peggy Gabrielson
10.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by backtothefront
I tend to agree with this. I don't there is such an issue in the UK in general.
My view is 'EDM' is mostly a recent (last couple of years) US phenomena; basically a shift away from the traditional staple diet of R&B, Rap, Rock and Country which generally dominates the US Top40. Now we have US R&B/Rap artists teaming up with dance music producers to knock out commercial, chart friendly pop electronic music or 'EDM' as it's known. UK/Europe went through something similar in terms of big, charting dance music in the 90's - this still happens to some extent but the underground dance music scene (of many different genres) is well established for 2 decades now.
Someone mentioned elitism further up the thread, I don't believe this is the case, moreover a frustration that 'EDM' is dominating the attention of the wider listenership, particularly in the US who are just beginning to get in to 4/4 dance music albeit not a particularly good version of it and who don't know any better than Guetta. Don't get me wrong this is not a dig at the US, House Music originated from there but it was in the UK & Europe where it exploded in the early 90's. The US are just catching up to some extent.
So glad I live in London when I heard underworld dark and long being played during the OLYMPIC OPENING CEREMONY , I was like yes, the uk is the king of dance music. |
Ming Devis
10.09.2012 | I believe Techno and Deep/Tech House are going to make a bit of a come back in the next few years if my local scene is anything to go by. The scene in Australia is starting to get healthy with more and more big events showing up every year with good attendance by lots of young people.
To be honest when I first got into electronic music I was going to mainstream clubs for awhile with friends until we all found the real decent music and clubs in our own backyard. Peoples tastes change as they dig through a style of music especially if they are real music lovers. With all this interest in mainstream dance music I believe there will be a wave of people crossing over to underground stuff and that scene will get a big boost because of it.
When I believe about it the same thing happened when I was going through high school when I started listening to rock/metal bands like Blink and Korn and from that I got into better stuff like Tool and a tone of good local bands. |
Gerard Cowin
09.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by vecdir
Ugh, it's horrible. Every club here is just top40 over and over and over and over again, mixed with a little bit of electro house or maybe some prog.
This is what I'm talking about, it seems that top40/electrouse/progressive has overshadowed Techno/House. You try bringing up Techno to these people and they believe Deadmau5 is Techno... As well it seems that because "EDM" (for lack of a better umbrella term) blew up this past year, that the underground is getting less and less attention, unfortunately |
Marvella Lofurno
09.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
I hear in London (Ontario) it's even worse with there being absolutely no underground scene, so that is why I've brought this up.
Ugh, it's horrible. Every club here is just top40 over and over and over and over again, mixed with a little bit of electro house or maybe some prog. |
Edwardo Rothenberger
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
So I guess that means that those of us who are passionate about this music, have to step up to the plate and get things done ourselves.
That's exactly it.
If you want to play out as a DJ, or have a great place to go. Make it yourself.
I put on a bash where I Dj'd in a small wine bar because I just wanted to play out, and it was awesome. At the time my Dj mate wanted to try and make it big time and therefore didn't want to start up something regular, which was a shame, but with passion you can definitely do it.
Find a small venue to start. I'm a bit past it now, but I assume people still give flyers out at the end of club evening
s. |
Gerard Cowin
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by souldancer
Since house came along, the genres with in it have shifted. And this will go on. in 1986 all the punk and new wavers told me house would die a quick death. It's still here. In 1989 Gabber techno etcetera started to take their place, and i had dj friends that had the same worries like you. Gabber took a flight and became hardcore. But look in 2012 house is still here.
If you want to stay into your genre find a new place or adapt and work and educate the crowd that you have by integrating some of the stuff that you like. And win them back.
This is a very helpful insight, to adapt and work the crowd into the underground. Perhaps adapting to the changing house landscape by including modern hits and implementing my own style of Techno, maybe, just maybe I could slowly ween the kids into the underground music. The main thing is that I want to play out, but since there's no stable venue at the moment, the scene is in a stasis at the moment.
I want to breath new life into the scene, I know there's people out there that love Techno/House, there's just no stability with the venue situation and the current promoters are more keen on dragging in the cash rather than promoting the scene (atleast from what I have gathered). So I guess that means that those of us who are passionate about this music, have to step up to the plate and get things done ourselves. |
Shalon Jaranilla
06.09.2012 | Since house came along, the genres with in it have shifted. And this will go on. in 1986 all the punk and new wavers told me house would die a quick death. It's still here. In 1989 Gabber techno etcetera started to take their place, and i had dj friends that had the same worries like you. Gabber took a flight and became hardcore. But look in 2012 house is still here.
If you want to stay into your genre find a new place or adapt and work and educate the crowd that you have by integrating some of the stuff that you like. And win them back. |
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
It's true. Look at the mullet as an example. For a long time only backwoods rednecks had mullets. Before you know it, David Beckham is sporting a mullet. Footballers and punters everywhere take to it. Now mullets are everywhere.
I was believeing more along the lines of rock and roll, punk, house and techno, but mullets work too.
|
Shonda Soulier
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
Underground scene in US starts something -> Gets completely ignored by the vast majority of the population of the US -> Gets picked up by the Brits/Euros -> Gets sold back in some horribly diluted form back to the US mainstream who lap it up.
It's true. Look at the mullet as an example. For a long time only backwoods rednecks had mullets. Before you know it, David Beckham is sporting a mullet. Footballers and punters everywhere take to it. Now mullets are everywhere. |
Shonda Soulier
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
yup, i also remember brown paper bag by roni size being played all the time along with aphex twin late at evening
on mtv. crazy days.
AMP was the reason I got into electronic music. Aphex Twin's "Come to Daddy" changed my life. |
Dorcas Bassignani
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
But in the meantime he completely destroyed our scene... Wouldn't you feel displaced after something like that?? He doesn't even pay DJs to spin and expects them to do all the promoting.
for all thoses reasons; fuck.him |
06.09.2012 | I posted this in the Green Day thread but this is probably a better place to post it -
It's the same story that's been repeated many times over the last 60 years or so.
Underground scene in US starts something -> Gets completely ignored by the vast majority of the population of the US -> Gets picked up by the Brits/Euros -> Gets sold back in some horribly diluted form back to the US mainstream who lap it up.
Fortunately this is not a problem in the UK generally. |
Lashawn Maycock
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Lilac
It's really not a problem here in London. Maybe it's just because it's such a vast city but if you're into anything, search hard enough and yee shall find.
I tend to agree with this. I don't there is such an issue in the UK in general.
My view is 'EDM' is mostly a recent (last couple of years) US phenomena; basically a shift away from the traditional staple diet of R&B, Rap, Rock and Country which generally dominates the US Top40. Now we have US R&B/Rap artists teaming up with dance music producers to knock out commercial, chart friendly pop electronic music or 'EDM' as it's known. UK/Europe went through something similar in terms of big, charting dance music in the 90's - this still happens to some extent but the underground dance music scene (of many different genres) is well established for 2 decades now.
Someone mentioned elitism further up the thread, I don't believe this is the case, moreover a frustration that 'EDM' is dominating the attention of the wider listenership, particularly in the US who are just beginning to get in to 4/4 dance music albeit not a particularly good version of it and who don't know any better than Guetta. Don't get me wrong this is not a dig at the US, House Music originated from there but it was in the UK & Europe where it exploded in the early 90's. The US are just catching up to some extent. |
Ossie Pooley
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
I've noticed in my own home town that the club scene has exploded with the EDM culture. Rare is it to find a club/venue that plays pure House and Techno.
We used to have a decent venue that hosted underground evening
s on a bi-weekly or at the very least, monthly basis. However, Tiesto happened to come along and destroy our sacred establishment. Tiesto demanded that the club be opened up (the club has an upstairs and downstairs) so as to accommodate a larger amount of people. The stage was moved to the 2nd floor balcony which over looked the main room, and the upstairs wall which separated the two rooms was removed so people could view Tiesto from directly across.
In the process of doing this, the club owners managed to ruin the sound system and acoustics of the secondary room. Any time there's an underground evening
, there's conflicting sound from the downstairs mainroom which plays pop/rap/EDM so it throws the dancers off and requires you to awkwardly beatmatch to dance.
They put up another wall since then but the sound has never recovered. The owners saw more money in the mainstream EDM movement and focused their resources towards the growth of that scene instead. So now we're left with a venue that has flat sound and poor service. It's obvious that the owners don't put their all into developing or promoting the second room of the club and it shows in the atmosphere. Now I've heard that they want to shut down the second room and revamp it, which I only hope can be for the better and not the worse. The second room has slowly started to loose money and it's customer basis, with fewer regulars showing up each event.
We've been trying to ferment an underground scene but it seems that some people are too occupied with their own business at the moment (we had one successful underground evening
at an undisclosed venue put on by ourselves with no outside promoter).
I really want to see the underground thrive but I'm not quite sure how to go about it, and I fear that Techno/Underground is fading away. Do people just not like Techno/House? I know there's a small group of dedicated fans here but no one to coalesce them.
How is the underground scene in your area, is it a loss cause trying to support Techno? Is the future EDM/Pop? What are your thoughts on this matter?
It's really not a problem here in London. Maybe it's just because it's such a vast city but if you're into anything, search hard enough and yee shall find. |
Cole Maroto
06.09.2012 | that's right, back in the days when mtv played mostly music and they had whole blocks of time dedicated to underground electronic stull...although it was on at like 2 or 3 am. i'm a evening
owl and worked swing shift so i watched it a lot. that and 120 minutes when it was still going on. |
Werner Bile
06.09.2012 | Yeah, on that show AMP. |
Cole Maroto
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by MWagner
You must not be old enough to remember 95-98 or so, when "electronica" was the "next big thing", thanks to the chemical brothers, fatboy slim, moby and the prodigy. This was during Detroit's post-music institute rave scene, when guys like Richie and Jeff Mills really blew up.
yup, i also remember brown paper bag by roni size being played all the time along with aphex twin late at evening
on mtv. crazy days. |
Werner Bile
06.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bl4ck3n3D
Another thing to consider is that this is the first big explosion of dance music in the US, Europe has already experienced the wave and thus is seeing the tapering off of the mainstream. Here it is just beginning, so that's why I feel doom and gloom.
You must not be old enough to remember 95-98 or so, when "electronica" was the "next big thing", thanks to the chemical brothers, fatboy slim, moby and the prodigy. This was during Detroit's post-music institute rave scene, when guys like Richie and Jeff Mills really blew up. |
Gerard Cowin
06.09.2012 | All good points. The only reason I bring this up is because I see the underground diminishing in favour of mainstream pop. Perhaps this is the beginning of a new cycle and it will take a couple of years to return full circle. I'm glad that there's others out there with higher hopes than I, it gives me greater hope.
I just feel sadden that Techno isn't thriving as well as Pop/Electrous, I guess it got my nickers in a knot. Maybe I'm in the wrong location, it is quite easy to jump the river and rave in Detroit, but I'd like to see a valiant scene here in Windsor too. I hear in London (Ontario) it's even worse with there being absolutely no underground scene, so that is why I've brought this up.
Another thing to consider is that this is the first big explosion of dance music in the US, Europe has already experienced the wave and thus is seeing the tapering off of the mainstream. Here it is just beginning, so that's why I feel doom and gloom. |
Ulysses Vittetoe
06.09.2012 | Why do people have such a problem with calling it EDM? It's the same thing as broadly categorizing rock music as "rock". It's just an umbrella term for easy identification. It's made primarily with computers instead of instruments, and you dance it, and it's music...hence EDM. |
Rey Holubar
05.09.2012 | This thread and some of the posts in it almost got me worried. But this is what I also thought EDM was and is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music
scamo |
Cole Maroto
05.09.2012 | ever since i got into music, people always believe x is killing y. this has been going on forever when they actually aren't even fighting...and you believe underground house and techno are dying? really? not even close from my viewpoint.
whatever type of music you like will always be around in some form or another. genres get blended up and new ideas shine through sometimes creating whole new styles. you can either ride the wave in, or if you don't like it, dig harder to find what you enjoy as it recesses back into the underground. its the circle of life, just embrace it. |
Ethel Feigum
05.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
I believe the big pop electro thing has been good for the scene here in Sydney. Lots of people are growing out of it and searching for underground stuff.
This +1000!
All you techno/house elitists need to get it out of your heads that "EDM" is ruining "your scene" and bring the new kids into the loop. In the end it will only strengthen your scene to educate these kids and get them into "good" electronic music.
By being snooty hipsters and hating on the current rise of dance music you will only drive people away and contribute to the decline of the underground. |
Werner Bile
05.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rotebass
Windsor had a scene? Every time I've ever partied in Windsor, it's just bro's from Detroit trying to scam on what ever piece of ass they could find.
back in the day, Richie Hawtin had a club over in Windsor. It was always full of strippers because it was the only place open when the strip clubs closed. |
Werner Bile
05.09.2012 | and before electro house and dubstep it was trance.
techno and house will survive. |
Shonda Soulier
05.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by LoopCat
I believe the big pop electro thing has been good for the scene here in Sydney. Lots of people are growing out of it and searching for underground stuff.
This is the outlook I've taken as well. If I'm playing at a more mainstream bar, I mix in some Tech House flavor for transitional-type mixes. People are much more receptive than they've been in the past. It's pretty fun.
"Scenes" don't last forever. You believe people are still bitching about how their favorite Disco club got bumped by some Punk Rock scene? |
Bunny Sockel
05.09.2012 | The mainstream dance music is ruining techno and house for sure. pretty soon Berghain will be playing dubstep (jokes jokes)
But it is being ruined |
Ulysses Vittetoe
05.09.2012 | Find a new club, throw an event, turn it into a weekly evening
. Takes a lot of work, but you said you've thrown a successful event before so you should know how it is for the most part. |
Gerard Cowin
05.09.2012 |
Originally Posted by rotebass
EDM EDM ED-fooking-M
Windsor had a scene? Every time I've ever partied in Windsor, it's just bro's from Detroit trying to scam on what ever piece of ass they could find.
Yes Windsor had a scene, don't forget Richie Hawtin started off in Windsor and Detroit, he created a small scene before taking off to greater lands. Our scene has gone through it's ups and downs with different clubs and promoters, but it seems to have really stagnated in the past two years. I've noticed a switch towards more Pop/Electrouse which has overshadowed Techno and House. I'm curious to see if similar has happened elsewhere. |
