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Starting out in Music Production

Home :: Producer tips and DAW information :: Starting out in Music ProductionReply

Starting out in Music Production Posted on: 14.02.2011 by Spencer Kilcoyne Right, now I'm sure this will attract the same kind of flaming as the old Mac vs PC issue (or emacs vs vi for the oldschool programmers in here) but ... I'd like to start producing a few tracks - it's the standard lots of ideas, no way of geting them out into the real world issue. From what I understand the choices are roughly: - Ableton Live - insanely powerful, almost industry standard, hard to get started with, expensive - FL Studio - been around a while, seen as a bit 'amateur' though people like Burial have produced albums on it, cheaper than Ableton - Pro-Tools - irrelevant to me as I odn't use a Mac, and I believe this is tied to them isn't it? NI Maschine - don't really know a lot about this one ... Erm, don't really know what else is out there? What a good cheap way of starting out? I don't want to fall into the trap that some on here seem to b (go out and drop a grand or two on CDJs/turntables/TSP/A&H mixer, turn up on the community asking how to sound like Tiesto/Deadmau5/insert famous DJ name here, then start asking daft questions about how to make the sounds come out of their computer/why can't I sync, whats an RCA plug ...) When I started out DJing, I used a makes 'other' copy of his Traktor Sudio 3 license (yes I know ...) but rapidly bought my own copy, then a BCD3000 then TP, then a VCI100SE, then TSP & !210s etc. I'm looking to do something similar - start out cheap, see if I take to it, invest if I do ... A little help?
Verona Fashbaugh 17.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Spencer Kilcoyne 16.02.2011	So, looks like I can bag a second hand Maschine for around
Georgette Vannarath 25.02.2011	Originally Posted by Jason Cerna forget live lite. the trial for Live 8 is 30 days long. http://www.ableton.com/download-live-trial if you have problems with the link, start from the main page and goto Products > Try [under each product] As for the Maschine, it's a great tool to tap out beats on, but if you really want to produce you will have to (well atleast this is what I do) drum out beats and rough ideas on the Maschine, then fine tune it with Ableton (or whatever you choose to go with).
Gertrude Razzano 24.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Right, now I'm sure this will attract the same kind of flaming as the old Mac vs PC issue (or emacs vs vi for the oldschool programmers in here) but ... I'd like to start producing a few tracks - it's the standard lots of ideas, no way of geting them out into the real world issue. From what I understand the choices are roughly: - Ableton Live - insanely powerful, almost industry standard, hard to get started with, expensive Almost completely the opposite of reality. Live is actually one of the weaker DAWs since they still don't support 64 bit systems. Once if your OS takes a gig to load into RAM, that's 3 gigs max to support all the audio clips, plugins, and midi clips in your arrangement. Once you hit that limit, the set will crash every time you open it. Beyond that, it has some good native plugins, but some sound fucking awful. The EQ is decent for touchups, but isn't suited for major cuts and boosting anything by more than 2 db sounds awkward. The db meters are minimal and give barely enough information, and there's no dedicated mixer style interface. All mixing has to be done in the plugin gui for individual tracks. It's a pain in the ass, believe me. Automation curves have to be drawn in, so any kind of non linear automation is labor intensive. I don't know where you picked up that industry standard bit, it's only industry standard amongst minimal loop jockeys and producers who ironically don't mix their tracks live. But it's still popular in home studios because it's so fucking fun to use. Nothing has to be set up, just load up a VST, arm it, and you're good to go. Everything's neat and tidy in the interface, and anything you want to do is possible, usually exactly how you believe it should be. But you're right about the price, it's expensive as all hell. Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms - FL Studio - been around a while, seen as a bit 'amateur' though people like Burial have produced albums on it, cheaper than Ableton FL Studio's instruments kind of suck, so 3rd party softsynths are a must. Other than that, it works as a sequencer and is cheap as dirt. Can't ask for much more if you're on a budget, but its Fisher-price of $99 and the fact that it was once officially named Fruity Loops give it a bad rep. - Pro-Tools - irrelevant to me as I odn't use a Mac, and I believe this is tied to them isn't it? No, it's tied to Avid, the original dongle mafia of anti-piracy. You can't use it unless you've got one of their interfaces, and if you buy one of the "cheaper" sound cards, you get a less powerful version. Pro Tools HD is the industry standard, and requires you to buy a sound card that costs more than your car. Fun. Never used it, but I know a fucking ripoff when I see one. NI Maschine - don't really know a lot about this one ... It's a software sampler with matching controller.
Verona Fashbaugh 17.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Spencer Kilcoyne 16.02.2011	So, looks like I can bag a second hand Maschine for around
Georgette Vannarath 25.02.2011	Originally Posted by Jason Cerna forget live lite. the trial for Live 8 is 30 days long. http://www.ableton.com/download-live-trial if you have problems with the link, start from the main page and goto Products > Try [under each product] As for the Maschine, it's a great tool to tap out beats on, but if you really want to produce you will have to (well atleast this is what I do) drum out beats and rough ideas on the Maschine, then fine tune it with Ableton (or whatever you choose to go with).
Gertrude Razzano 24.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Right, now I'm sure this will attract the same kind of flaming as the old Mac vs PC issue (or emacs vs vi for the oldschool programmers in here) but ... I'd like to start producing a few tracks - it's the standard lots of ideas, no way of geting them out into the real world issue. From what I understand the choices are roughly: - Ableton Live - insanely powerful, almost industry standard, hard to get started with, expensive Almost completely the opposite of reality. Live is actually one of the weaker DAWs since they still don't support 64 bit systems. Once if your OS takes a gig to load into RAM, that's 3 gigs max to support all the audio clips, plugins, and midi clips in your arrangement. Once you hit that limit, the set will crash every time you open it. Beyond that, it has some good native plugins, but some sound fucking awful. The EQ is decent for touchups, but isn't suited for major cuts and boosting anything by more than 2 db sounds awkward. The db meters are minimal and give barely enough information, and there's no dedicated mixer style interface. All mixing has to be done in the plugin gui for individual tracks. It's a pain in the ass, believe me. Automation curves have to be drawn in, so any kind of non linear automation is labor intensive. I don't know where you picked up that industry standard bit, it's only industry standard amongst minimal loop jockeys and producers who ironically don't mix their tracks live. But it's still popular in home studios because it's so fucking fun to use. Nothing has to be set up, just load up a VST, arm it, and you're good to go. Everything's neat and tidy in the interface, and anything you want to do is possible, usually exactly how you believe it should be. But you're right about the price, it's expensive as all hell. Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms - FL Studio - been around a while, seen as a bit 'amateur' though people like Burial have produced albums on it, cheaper than Ableton FL Studio's instruments kind of suck, so 3rd party softsynths are a must. Other than that, it works as a sequencer and is cheap as dirt. Can't ask for much more if you're on a budget, but its Fisher-price of $99 and the fact that it was once officially named Fruity Loops give it a bad rep. - Pro-Tools - irrelevant to me as I odn't use a Mac, and I believe this is tied to them isn't it? No, it's tied to Avid, the original dongle mafia of anti-piracy. You can't use it unless you've got one of their interfaces, and if you buy one of the "cheaper" sound cards, you get a less powerful version. Pro Tools HD is the industry standard, and requires you to buy a sound card that costs more than your car. Fun. Never used it, but I know a fucking ripoff when I see one. NI Maschine - don't really know a lot about this one ... It's a software sampler with matching controller.
Spencer Kilcoyne 24.02.2011	In fact I believe I'm going to bugger off down the local Digital Village store and have a play with the AKAI MPD range ... on the advice of a bunch of mates it seems to be the best for beatmaking, and I can always augment with a midi keyboard later on.
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	In fact scratch that - looks like someone got an eBay bargain - they usually go for a ton more ...
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	Any Thoughts on the Korg Microkontrol? Ish the same price as the Akai mini MPK but is listen as bring plug and play the Ableton ...
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	I have actually been looking at that MPK actually ...
Verona Fashbaugh 17.02.2011	Also, though I've never used one, I would recommend looking at this: it's got pads, keys, and knobs, all for US$100! http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfrien...ard?sku=H68164
Verona Fashbaugh 17.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Spencer Kilcoyne 17.02.2011	Cheers - managed to pick up Ableton Live 8 Intro for
Karyn Auila 17.02.2011	Ahhh...I'd say PT is more a multi-track editing program. You can record audio or midi instruments and buy software that you can control via a midi interface. For example strike is a drum program. You can go in and make your beats. Downside is the extra software is expensive, you need a bit of talent and it's not set up to be a sequencer. Ableton is great BUT is expensive. 8 comes with a large amount of samples but lite does not. Um, I'd say Ableton is more a sequencer than an editor. It does both but if you're composing a lot of your own work it might get up your nose a bit. To paint a bigger pic, you need a midi controller like a keyboard, this will control your software instruments. You need a sequencer, a midi editor and audio recorder/ editor. Put them together and use Ableton. You need an audio interface to connect your keyboard. You need samples (or the ability to create some). This is very expensive so if you can spring for Ableton 8 you will actually save money otherwise lite will do you fine!!
Spencer Kilcoyne 16.02.2011	So, looks like I can bag a second hand Maschine for around
Spencer Kilcoyne 16.02.2011	(now that I've found that my topic was moved ... grrr) Cheers guys - played with Reason bleenty years ago - as I have no background in drum machine programming the 'turn it round and wire the back up' seemed odd. As I'm PC based, seems to be Ableton really doesn't it - I've got some friends who're shit hot on it though, so I'll hopefully get a leg up from them. Now, what do I control it with ... hmm
Jacque Divinity 15.02.2011	download as many trials as you can, im not sure who does trials and who doesn't.... but use each of them for a couple of weeks and just go with what feels comfortable for your workflow. you'll need to keep in mind some are all in one's, and some are better for building tracks, and others are better for final mixdown and mastering.
Corliss Michalke 15.02.2011	I've never seen anyone to start with 1 DAW, and stick with it. Personally myself, i used cubase SX for a few years, and then jumped to Ableton 7, currently using 8.1.3 and i must say i love it. Many of the core elements are the same in each DAW, so which ever one ya pick, they'll all usually be the same. Ableton has a lot of followers cus of the whole live performance set up, make a jam in ableton, perform it live in ableton, without having to move files from one daw to another.
Verona Fashbaugh 15.02.2011	Originally Posted by duerr use Ableton or Cubase and start with them, read tutorials. don't bother learning the basics in something like fruity or reason, it's a waste of time. you'll be kicking yourself once you outgrow them and have to learn an entirely new workflow with something like Ableton or Cubase. I couldn't disagree more. A lot of stuff that I learned in FL transferred easily when I started learning Ableton. The concept of a Piano Roll, VSTs in general, Automation, how to correctly use samples... The work flow is different, but many of the concepts are the same. I never 'kicked myself' for having started with FL.
Coreen Pankow 14.02.2011	use live (I used to use FL, but switched to live when i went to a mac). use youtube. read. and play :P
Belen Wermes 14.02.2011	use Ableton or Cubase and start with them, read tutorials. don't bother learning the basics in something like fruity or reason, it's a waste of time. you'll be kicking yourself once you outgrow them and have to learn an entirely new workflow with something like Ableton or Cubase.
Justina Tidemann 14.02.2011	Reason is also an excellent piece of software that can do a lot. Some say that the final product output isn't as good quality as others but starting out, Propellerhead Reason is pretty quick to learn and it's like having the gear in your room.
Verona Fashbaugh 14.02.2011	Originally Posted by mostapha I didn't read anyone's responses because most of them translate to "use what I use because I use it." How could you know that if you didn't read any of them?
Dorie Scelzo 14.02.2011	I didn't read anyone's responses because most of them translate to "use what I use because I use it." Try whatever you can. There are demos available for most of the major software, and whatever sorta-kinda makes sense to you is the one you should start with. And there's no reason you can't end up with more than one after you figure out a basic idea of what you're doing
Ruby Jaeb 14.02.2011	Do you have a Mac? If so then it seems like Logic is peoples weapon of choice, although I have never used it myself. If your on a PC I personally love Cubase. Its not hard to learn at all. Its really straight forward I find. It looks pretty as well now its in version 6. My only problem with Cubase is that the synths and effects that it comes with are balls. Well, the effects are not bad so much, but the synths are shite. I would still recommend it though.
Verona Fashbaugh 15.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Whereas (at the moment admittedly) I'm not that arsed 'performing' them - I'll play 'em out obviously, but as a track ... oh, and if I do buy ableton, then turn up here asking how to 'make the bass go all wobbly like in dubstep' - SHOOT ME Hey not everyone wants to perform their tracks. The idea was just appealing to me! I have a tendency to point firearms at anyone who asks how to make wobbly bass! Nah I'm playing man we all have to start somewhere. A long time ago I made a thread where people posted their first productions. Funny stuff. Good luck tho man, whatever you decide to do. Sometimes I feel like producing music consumes my life, or at least my free time.
Marshall Aby 15.02.2011	Just assign the LFO to the... never mind.
Spencer Kilcoyne 15.02.2011	Originally Posted by Lambox Oh man, I feel like a broken record saying this. I recommend that you try all the DAWs available to you. I used FL Studio for a long time, and I stand by it. The only reason I was even interested in making the switch to Ableton to begin with was the ability to actually 'perform' my tracks was very appealing. Whereas (at the moment admittedly) I'm not that arsed 'performing' them - I'll play 'em out obviously, but as a track ... oh, and if I do buy ableton, then turn up here asking how to 'make the bass go all wobbly like in dubstep' - SHOOT ME
Verona Fashbaugh 15.02.2011	Oh man, I feel like a broken record saying this. I recommend that you try all the DAWs available to you. I used FL Studio for a long time, and I stand by it. The only reason I was even interested in making the switch to Ableton to begin with was the ability to actually 'perform' my tracks was very appealing.
Carlee Pickard 14.02.2011	Exactly what Jason said. If you have knowledge on how to work with synths, any and all tools will work. Its just preference. As for the Maschine, it's a great tool to tap out beats on, but if you really want to produce you will have to (well atleast this is what I do) drum out beats and rough ideas on the Maschine, then fine tune it with Ableton (or whatever you choose to go with).
Harley Hendzel 14.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms Is there still a free trial, or do you have to stump up for Ableton Lite? (I had a quick look on their website, and nothing jumped out as a free trial ...) forget live lite. the trial for Live 8 is 30 days long. http://www.ableton.com/download-live-trial Try Ableton Live 8 You can try Ableton Live 8 free - without any limitations or missing features - for 30 days. Just follow the instructions below to download Live and set up your free trial. if you have problems with the link, start from the main page and goto Products > Try [under each product]
Spencer Kilcoyne 14.02.2011	Originally Posted by Jason Cerna I recommend you download the trial of Live and try it out. if you have the knowledge of proper production techniques and a good grasp of how to program a synth, then you can make tracks on any software, given enough time. Is there still a free trial, or do you have to stump up for Ableton Lite? (I had a quick look on their website, and nothing jumped out as a free trial ...)
Spencer Kilcoyne 14.02.2011	Originally Posted by levvis Also would recommend rocking something else with it like NI Massive or something.. Already got Massive, though I've barely used it - purely as I had a voucher that came with my old Audio Kontrol 1, so it was free. On the recommendation of the bloke in the shop I got Massive, as opposed to anything else.
Delma Tuskey 14.02.2011	You could try and get hold of a copy of ableton live lite - sure its a cut down version but should be enough to let you get a flavour of ableton and then if you like it you can upgrade.
Harley Hendzel 14.02.2011	I recommend you download the trial of Live and try it out. been around a while, seen as a bit 'amateur' though people like Burial have produced albums on it, if you have the knowledge of proper production techniques and a good grasp of how to program a synth, then you can make tracks on any software, given enough time.
Dudley Denoux 14.02.2011	Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms - Ableton Live - insanely powerful, almost industry standard, hard to get started with, expensive Common dilemma. I believe at the end of the day ableton is the way to go, but has one of the steepest learning curves and if you're not sitting in a basement for 18 hours a day on it, results can be slow and frustrating. NI Maschine - don't really know a lot about this one ... Learn some stuff about it! I'm definitely heading down this path once my finances allow it. Probably the most intuitive piece of gear out there imo. I believe really good to start out with as it's pretty easy to navigate and can get you on a roll early on. Also would recommend rocking something else with it like NI Massive or something.. Or if you have the balls/cash, ableton. My best advice would be to research the balls out of all your options and not just jump at something. And cop something that will suit the way you want to create. Honestly something so tactile and with such a good work flow as maschine I can't go past recommending it

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Starting out in Music Production