Sonic Academy - good investment?

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Sonic Academy - good investment?
Posted on: 10.05.2012 by Zulma Ramji
Hey guys,

Im a little stuck in production and keep making crappy tracks. Have anyone tried http://www.sonicacademy.com/
What is the feedback? Any tips are much appreciated. Maybe other resources you used and recommend? Want to start making good tracks badly.

cheers
V
Georgina Schatzman
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
I can't believe I only got into techno semi recently.
Welcome to the club!
Romelia Stankard
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
I actually own that track.

And, uhh…after a great evening of deep/acid techno on Saturday (Mr. C and some atlanta residents)…yeah. Definitely going that direction for a little while. Also…completely unrelated, but I believe I just figured out how to do polyrhythms in Maschine.

That being said, it still bugs me. And there still is melody in Techno…it's just usually really simple.
Yeah- guess it depends on the track but it is usually very simple and often doesn't follow any standard music theory. A lot of detroit techno had sampled chords loaded into a sampler then played back on a keyboard and transposed which is kind of a strange type of key where they are stable within themselves, I forget the technical name for it but the same effect can be achieved with ableton chord type plugins and I've been meaning to mess with it. It's not really a focus unless you're making Kompakt type melodic techno but I'm not really into that.


Techno is a ton of fun and I really like just focusing on the groove and bass and find myself often getting up and dancing around jamming on maschine and the virus. It's so much fun it can be hard to focus- I can't believe I only got into techno semi recently.
Georgina Schatzman
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Melodies are overrated, make techno.
Heed this mans advice! Start making tools for the dance floor instead of making songs and you'll be better off
Romelia Stankard
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
What are you getting stuck on? I–for one–can't write melodies for shit. I'm seriously considering taking piano lessons to try and get past it.

Melodies are overrated, make techno.
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
That's a different animal entirely. If you're using the old hip hop sampling techniques and taking pieces of sounds (even loops) and chopping them up and doing stuff…that's one thing. Just playing a loop is, well, just playing a loop.
I feel you got me wrong...My comment was intended to go into another direction. In hiphop and hiphop-related genres sampling is part of the business and genre, no doubt.
What I wanted to point out is that e.g. Avicii, Axwell or other famous producers make use of factory presets from e.g. the reFX Nexus with maximally subtile adjustments. Lots of EDM producers admit that they use factory presets a lot. You can also refer to Deadmau5 using complete drum beat samples in his tracks. Nothing wrong with that and it doesn't affect the final product, don't get me wrong! Nevertheless, I prefer creating my own sounds, melodies and presets WHEREVER POSSIBLE.
And even if one has only begun with music production and starts with mixing some stems or pre-canned loops this can be a long-term objective!
Dorie Scelzo
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
…There are lots of sample packs and synth presets out there…But…The real work was done by some other professional engineers.
I definitely see where you're coming from. But sound design is yet another weirdly complicated thing to learn. There's no reason not to start off with synth presets.

And, uhh…even if you keep using things like that. There are a lot of synth presets out there. And they're more diverse than the difference between a strat and a les paul. If you believe of it as an instrument, presets make a lot of sense, especially when you're starting.

Originally Posted by RockingClub
P.S: I know there are a lot of professional musicians that make excessive use of pre-canned loops
That's a different animal entirely. If you're using the old hip hop sampling techniques and taking pieces of sounds (even loops) and chopping them up and doing stuff…that's one thing. Just playing a loop is, well, just playing a loop.
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
Im sure everyone is capable of producing music.
Don't really agree with that. First of all, what you need is creativity. It takes up some imagination to figure out some nice melodies.

Apart from that, I admit that today achieving great results is quite easy. There are lots of sample packs and synth presets out there so to do it on the easy way just throw in some Vengeance drum beats, take some additional Loopmasters bassline or synth samples and add a few melody elements you created yourself by using the last "Skrillex preset collection for Sylenth".
But imho this is not music production. The real work was done by some other professional engineers. Of course, this is a great way to get into music production and this an option if you are more kind of a performer or DJ and just want to create some unique transitions for existing tracks.
But if music production is a passion for you (as it is for me) you will probably want to create your own unique elements (melodies, transitions, drum beats and maybe even synth presets).The feeling to know that this fat pumping kick was made by you is far from knowing you took it from one of your 1000 sample packs.

P.S: I know there are a lot of professional musicians that make excessive use of pre-canned loops but I can't live with that for my own. What I call "my music" has to be "my music" as far as possible.
I don't want to be rude - I know you're just a beginner but this is meant to be something to believe about...
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
Could you elaborate on layering the melody? Does it mean i would need to basically make same melody but with a different sound, play it more quite in the background, space it with panning and reverb and ensure the frequencies dont clash?
This would be one way. I would recommend replacing the reverb you mentionned by a delay/ ping pong delay though since it takes up a lot less room in your mix. And I guess you know (but didn't say) that your layering method (with always the same melody) only sounds great if every part is restricted to a specific frequency range (EQing!)

Another way for the melody would be breaking it down into separate parts (one low end chord part, one mid-range melody part and one addition in the high octaves). Then use different synth sounds for these parts. It takes some time to figure out great combinations but this is the magic.

Make sure you don't miss the Future Music videos on youtube I already recommended. There you can watch artists breaking down their songs into pieces. It's very interesting to see what the great sound consists of! I learned a lot from that.
Georgina Schatzman
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
If you're really lost being pointed in the right direction can help.

Did you understand a compressor the first time you used one? Or decoupling based on frequencies? Or M/S EQing? Or even mixing, really?

You have to learn it somewhere. Though, I'd put my stock in audio.tutsplus.com long before I'd pay for SA……based almost entirely on what their site design says about their dedication.
No, but guess what? I spent time to read up and learn and try and gather as much information today as possible. And now a days it's so much easier there really is no need for these silly "classes".

You wanna learn about compression? Here's an awesome guide,

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1595

Killer guide on EQing for beginners

https://www.nodoughmusic.com/hello/m...to-eq-your-mix

A little more info on Reverb

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1544

And a very awesome guide for Subtractive synthesis.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1351


And these are ones I know of off the top of my head without even searching!
Georgina Schatzman
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
I can't believe I only got into techno semi recently.
Welcome to the club!
Romelia Stankard
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
I actually own that track.

And, uhh…after a great evening of deep/acid techno on Saturday (Mr. C and some atlanta residents)…yeah. Definitely going that direction for a little while. Also…completely unrelated, but I believe I just figured out how to do polyrhythms in Maschine.

That being said, it still bugs me. And there still is melody in Techno…it's just usually really simple.
Yeah- guess it depends on the track but it is usually very simple and often doesn't follow any standard music theory. A lot of detroit techno had sampled chords loaded into a sampler then played back on a keyboard and transposed which is kind of a strange type of key where they are stable within themselves, I forget the technical name for it but the same effect can be achieved with ableton chord type plugins and I've been meaning to mess with it. It's not really a focus unless you're making Kompakt type melodic techno but I'm not really into that.


Techno is a ton of fun and I really like just focusing on the groove and bass and find myself often getting up and dancing around jamming on maschine and the virus. It's so much fun it can be hard to focus- I can't believe I only got into techno semi recently.
Dorie Scelzo
16.05.2012		I actually own that track.

And, uhh…after a great evening of deep/acid techno on Saturday (Mr. C and some atlanta residents)…yeah. Definitely going that direction for a little while. Also…completely unrelated, but I believe I just figured out how to do polyrhythms in Maschine.

That being said, it still bugs me. And there still is melody in Techno…it's just usually really simple.
Sylvia Greener
16.05.2012		 Thumbs up for melodies!
Romelia Stankard
16.05.2012		Relevant

Georgina Schatzman
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Melodies are overrated, make techno.
Heed this mans advice! Start making tools for the dance floor instead of making songs and you'll be better off
Romelia Stankard
16.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
What are you getting stuck on? I–for one–can't write melodies for shit. I'm seriously considering taking piano lessons to try and get past it.

Melodies are overrated, make techno.
Romelia Stankard
15.05.2012		A far as sonic academy and the original post goes. It's true there is a lot of free information and tutorials on the web and some a lot more comprehensive.

Sonic academy is good for starting out and for like $40 or whatever it is for like 4 months you get access to all of their material all in one place that can walk you through your DAW of choice, has examples for creating different tracks from start to finish, has stuff on sound design, music theory, and covers most things you need. They have project files and materials you can download to follow along with tutorials and get yourself familiar with your DAW.

Some of their tutorials are better than others and they may not be the greatest, but you won't find as comprehensive of a starting point just browsing videos on youtube. For what it is it's really not bad. It's just one more resource that can make things a little less overwhelming in the beginning and when you compare it to the thousands people spend for online courses it's really not much cost investment, plus you can just rip all the videos and watch them later. It's not a shortcut for putting in time and work experimenting but if you learn something it's worth it. I had a subscription a little while back and there is a lot dumber things like VSTs and sample packs you won't use that you could spend $50 on.
Georgina Schatzman
11.05.2012		It's one thing to find a super dope loop with a killer groove and build a track around, but if all you're doing is just dropping in loops as is and you're just stitching together a track, not going to get to far at that point.
Dorie Scelzo
11.05.2012		mixing stems and loops teaches you one set of skills.
creating sounds from scratch teaches another.
writing/playing melodies and rhythms teaches another.

Ignoring/isolating any of them means you're not growing to your fullest the way people have come to expect in dance music.

Does it matter? I have no idea. I'm not in a place to pass judgement like that. A lot of the greats from any genre got a lot of help. It's somewhat rare in any other scene for someone to design the sounds, write all the parts, arrange them, record them, and mix them. It happens, but it's not the norm.

The only thing I have an issue with is unprocessed, pre-canned loops. And I'm really not sure why. It just seems so incredibly lazy that it makes me wonder why you're in it.

Now that we're really off topic………umm………I usually post pictures of kitties doing something cute, but I'm just too lazy.
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
That's a different animal entirely. If you're using the old hip hop sampling techniques and taking pieces of sounds (even loops) and chopping them up and doing stuff…that's one thing. Just playing a loop is, well, just playing a loop.
I feel you got me wrong...My comment was intended to go into another direction. In hiphop and hiphop-related genres sampling is part of the business and genre, no doubt.
What I wanted to point out is that e.g. Avicii, Axwell or other famous producers make use of factory presets from e.g. the reFX Nexus with maximally subtile adjustments. Lots of EDM producers admit that they use factory presets a lot. You can also refer to Deadmau5 using complete drum beat samples in his tracks. Nothing wrong with that and it doesn't affect the final product, don't get me wrong! Nevertheless, I prefer creating my own sounds, melodies and presets WHEREVER POSSIBLE.
And even if one has only begun with music production and starts with mixing some stems or pre-canned loops this can be a long-term objective!
Dorie Scelzo
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
…There are lots of sample packs and synth presets out there…But…The real work was done by some other professional engineers.
I definitely see where you're coming from. But sound design is yet another weirdly complicated thing to learn. There's no reason not to start off with synth presets.

And, uhh…even if you keep using things like that. There are a lot of synth presets out there. And they're more diverse than the difference between a strat and a les paul. If you believe of it as an instrument, presets make a lot of sense, especially when you're starting.

Originally Posted by RockingClub
P.S: I know there are a lot of professional musicians that make excessive use of pre-canned loops
That's a different animal entirely. If you're using the old hip hop sampling techniques and taking pieces of sounds (even loops) and chopping them up and doing stuff…that's one thing. Just playing a loop is, well, just playing a loop.
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
Im sure everyone is capable of producing music.
Don't really agree with that. First of all, what you need is creativity. It takes up some imagination to figure out some nice melodies.

Apart from that, I admit that today achieving great results is quite easy. There are lots of sample packs and synth presets out there so to do it on the easy way just throw in some Vengeance drum beats, take some additional Loopmasters bassline or synth samples and add a few melody elements you created yourself by using the last "Skrillex preset collection for Sylenth".
But imho this is not music production. The real work was done by some other professional engineers. Of course, this is a great way to get into music production and this an option if you are more kind of a performer or DJ and just want to create some unique transitions for existing tracks.
But if music production is a passion for you (as it is for me) you will probably want to create your own unique elements (melodies, transitions, drum beats and maybe even synth presets).The feeling to know that this fat pumping kick was made by you is far from knowing you took it from one of your 1000 sample packs.

P.S: I know there are a lot of professional musicians that make excessive use of pre-canned loops but I can't live with that for my own. What I call "my music" has to be "my music" as far as possible.
I don't want to be rude - I know you're just a beginner but this is meant to be something to believe about...
Sylvia Greener
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
Could you elaborate on layering the melody? Does it mean i would need to basically make same melody but with a different sound, play it more quite in the background, space it with panning and reverb and ensure the frequencies dont clash?
This would be one way. I would recommend replacing the reverb you mentionned by a delay/ ping pong delay though since it takes up a lot less room in your mix. And I guess you know (but didn't say) that your layering method (with always the same melody) only sounds great if every part is restricted to a specific frequency range (EQing!)

Another way for the melody would be breaking it down into separate parts (one low end chord part, one mid-range melody part and one addition in the high octaves). Then use different synth sounds for these parts. It takes some time to figure out great combinations but this is the magic.

Make sure you don't miss the Future Music videos on youtube I already recommended. There you can watch artists breaking down their songs into pieces. It's very interesting to see what the great sound consists of! I learned a lot from that.
Zulma Ramji
10.05.2012		Thanks Jason, will definitely check it out. I know 2 months is really nothing when it comes to producing own tracks but i just want to make sure i learn efficiently. will definitely check out the materials.
Georgina Schatzman
11.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
If you're really lost being pointed in the right direction can help.

Did you understand a compressor the first time you used one? Or decoupling based on frequencies? Or M/S EQing? Or even mixing, really?

You have to learn it somewhere. Though, I'd put my stock in audio.tutsplus.com long before I'd pay for SA……based almost entirely on what their site design says about their dedication.
No, but guess what? I spent time to read up and learn and try and gather as much information today as possible. And now a days it's so much easier there really is no need for these silly "classes".

You wanna learn about compression? Here's an awesome guide,

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1595

Killer guide on EQing for beginners

https://www.nodoughmusic.com/hello/m...to-eq-your-mix

A little more info on Reverb

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1544

And a very awesome guide for Subtractive synthesis.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1351


And these are ones I know of off the top of my head without even searching!
Georgina Schatzman
11.05.2012		You've only been producing for two months? Well, no wonder your stuff doesn't sound good mate. Not sure what you're expecting to accomplish in such a short amount of time
Zulma Ramji
10.05.2012
Originally Posted by RockingClub
Won't have these problems any longer by quitting music production^^. Sounds to me a little bit as if your problem simply is that you are not able to produce music
But to give you a helping hand: What do you meen by saying "It sounds too plain": Did you add a bassline and a pad to your main melody and it still sounds "plain"? Did you forget to layer your main melody line? With layered melodies you could add and subtract layers to create smooth transitions. Also make use of riser and downshifter FX. Try drum beat variations and place some hidden sounds in the background.

I highly recommend the Future music videos on youtube. There you'll be able to watch famous producers like Avicii, Nicky Romero etc. creating their songs.

Don't forget: Music production is a matter of time: Sometimes one track can take up to one or two weeks in production.
Im sure everyone is capable of producing music. I only started 2months ago so i am giving myself time to learn. Could you elaborate on layering the melody? Does it mean i would need to basically make same melody but with a different sound, play it more quite in the background, space it with panning and reverb and ensure the frequencies dont clash?
Palma Hanslip
10.05.2012		Sonic Academy is ok for basic things your stuck with. If you sign up you can get some free videos, i used them when i was first starting out and they helped a little bit which was good. Don't believe i'd pay for the videos though (mainly because i work with someone experienced).

Maybe try register then watch some of the free videos and decide from there?
Dorie Scelzo
09.05.2012		If you're really lost being pointed in the right direction can help.

Did you understand a compressor the first time you used one? Or decoupling based on frequencies? Or M/S EQing? Or even mixing, really?

You have to learn it somewhere. Though, I'd put my stock in audio.tutsplus.com long before I'd pay for SA……based almost entirely on what their site design says about their dedication.
Georgina Schatzman
09.05.2012		How long have you been making music now? And are you dedicating a significant amount of time to it? Are you familiar with all the tools your DAW provides?

Sonic Academy and it's like are not worth it I'd say. There's no way to fast track time and experience.
Sylvia Greener
09.05.2012
Originally Posted by vpech013
I just can't seem to get the proper elements of the song and tying them together to make a smooth transition/flow of complementing sounds. I feel im missing some parts of song that makes it sounds too plain. Hope this makes sense.
Won't have these problems any longer by quitting music production^^. Sounds to me a little bit as if your problem simply is that you are not able to produce music
But to give you a helping hand: What do you meen by saying "It sounds too plain": Did you add a bassline and a pad to your main melody and it still sounds "plain"? Did you forget to layer your main melody line? With layered melodies you could add and subtract layers to create smooth transitions. Also make use of riser and downshifter FX. Try drum beat variations and place some hidden sounds in the background.

I highly recommend the Future music videos on youtube. There you'll be able to watch famous producers like Avicii, Nicky Romero etc. creating their songs.

Don't forget: Music production is a matter of time: Sometimes one track can take up to one or two weeks in production.
Zulma Ramji
09.05.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
I know you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but that website looks like shit. I'd have a hard time trusting them.

What are you getting stuck on? I
Tonisha Rayman
09.05.2012		I've seen a few members mention sonic academy. I've give it a go it seems pretty interesting in fact I was believeing of signing up in a few weeks.
Dorie Scelzo
09.05.2012		I know you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but that website looks like shit. I'd have a hard time trusting them.

What are you getting stuck on? I–for one–can't write melodies for shit. I'm seriously considering taking piano lessons to try and get past it.

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