Mixing and (vs?) Mastering
Mixing and (vs?) Mastering Posted on: 24.08.2012 by Berta Baie Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: | |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Tarekith
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| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Alright, so I've got a track pretty much all finished and its time to mix and master this track. That being said I have a few questions/thoughts about this whole process. To start with, I've taken a look at Terekiths articles (if you are watching Terekith, feel free to chime in here ) found here http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html and the subsequent mastering article. Now a few questions arise for me: 1. In regards to mixing, i have pretty much been doing this as i've gone along and it seems this is acceptable, as he states
A lot of people will not even approach the mixdown as a separate process, they shape it while they write, and when that phase is done, the song is done and they send it out for mastering. Certainly nothing wrong with this, many a good a tune has been written this way.
Track sounds great to me and is seems to be on average between -2db and at the very peak coming out of the main build up -0.5db, but there is a lot of talk about reducing the overall volume to like -6db. Now why would one need to do this if the track isn't clipping to begin with? I have volume automations in there so it seems to me like a huge pain in the ass to go over each track and reduce each to match the goal master db if it isn't actually necessary to do, no? 2. Which leads me to mastering, Terekith states a few goals of the mastering process: |
| Berta Baie 26.08.2012 | thanks for the tip, because yeah, messing with the volume faders brings up a host of annoying problems in the end |
| Kasi Marget 26.08.2012 | It seems like one of your problem has been left unanswered : Volume automation. I don't know the DAW you're using, but NEVER automate the volume fader of a track, because as you said, it becomes a pain in the ass if you want to change it for mixdown purposes. Assuming you're using Live (but this may work with anything really), use the "Utility" plugin (which is in Live by default), and automate the gain on this instead of automating the track fader. This small trick helps alot not to mess everything, and you'll be able to adjust the volume fader of the track without screwing your automation(s). |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Tarekith
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| Len Lukawski 24.08.2012 | Good advice. Im close to completing my first track and will be sending it to Mr Kith for it's makeover. I have to imagine that his more than reasonable fee is worth the investment if for no other reason than to truly understand what mastering adds to the final product. In fact, I've just had a bloody good idea for an article..... |
| Monserrate Rupnow 24.08.2012 | You'll have to start googling that kid of stuff man, way too long for me to sum up here. I'd recommend Bob Katz's "Mastering Audio" book, which covers not just mastering, but plenty of digital audio basics like this too. EVERYONE writing music should have a copy IMVHO. |
| Berta Baie 24.08.2012 | Ok great thanks, so the limiter goes on the master track set to -0.3db? Just out of curiosity, why am i doing all of this in the first place? I.e. why 16bit vs 32bit, why shouldn't i normalize, etc? I'm a teacher by trade and i like to know these things for my own benefit |
| Monserrate Rupnow 24.08.2012 | It's not a big deal to lower the master fader, if that's easier than lowering all the track volumes, then go for it. Don't normalize, set the final output on the limiter to -0.3dB to be safe, and if this is your final end product and you're not going to work on it any more, then you want to export at 16 bit with dither on. POWr-2 is probably the best all around option for the kind of music you mention. |
| Berta Baie 25.08.2012 |
You could just lower the master fader too, no need to mess with all the individual track volumes.
2. In general, having your song peaking at -05dB is going to mean that it's probably going to be a bit quieter than other songs in the same genre. In a perfect world we'd actually stop there, leave the track nice and dynamic and still safe from clipping. But people want it loud a possible these days, which means doing some form of dynamic range reduction after this to get as much volume as possible. Thus, modern mastering (or at least one facet of it).
Ok, thanks for the responses, so where do you believe i go from here? I believe I'm starting to get to the point of diminishing returns in tweaking the parts, im sure you know what i mean: "yeah this part could be a touch louder or quieter, but is it really adding anything to the song at this point?" Should i just throw a touch more volume on it to bring it up to par with other tracks in the genre (i should have mentioned, this is like a tech house/techno ish track) and listen to it on a bunch of diff speakers to see how it sounds? Also, when exporting all this in Ableton you get a few diff options, namely things like: normalize, sample rate, bit depth, and dither options. Any standards for these things? Pretty sure I have to normalize it and i believe i remember reading the bit depth was supposed to be 24, anything else? |
| Monserrate Rupnow 24.08.2012 | 1. The main purpose of the -6dB recommendation is just to make sure you're not accidentally clipping anywhere. It's a rough guideline to aim for while writing and mixing, not a firm rule or anything. If you're ABSOLUTELY sure you're not clipping, then you can leve yours as is. You could just lower the master fader too, no need to mess with all the individual track volumes. 2. In general, having your song peaking at -05dB is going to mean that it's probably going to be a bit quieter than other songs in the same genre. In a perfect world we'd actually stop there, leave the track nice and dynamic and still safe from clipping. But people want it loud a possible these days, which means doing some form of dynamic range reduction after this to get as much volume as possible. Thus, modern mastering (or at least one facet of it). As for how will it sound in a club, well yeah you'd have to play it in a club to know for sure, or have someone with more experience than you work on it to ensure this. There's no magic way to 'just know', over trial and error you learn how much bass is too much, how bright it can be without getting harsh, how too much stereo information can sometimes disappear, etc. Long story short, it's about a lot of trial and error on your end, or paying someone who's already done all that learning for you. |
| Carlee Pickard 24.08.2012 | Hey man, I can't answer your other points, but I can make a suggestion about listening to your track to make sure it sounds fine on other speakers. Find your friend with the crappiest car, and play it in his car. If it sounds fine in there, then in my mind you're good to go! |
| Mira Kroninger 24.08.2012 | Im no audio engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but ill give my 2 cents for what its worth (its worth 2 cents): mixdown focuses on individual tracks and how well they sit with each other, adjusting volume /panning and eq of each track, and when you're done, you bounce out the whole song, only then can mastering begin. i guess mastering focuses on the whole tune, rather than the individual tracks. Mastering involves many different elements (compression/limiting, eq'ing, harmonic enhancing/exciting etc.), and is best left to someone who knows the tools (teh mastering engineer). So i believe what the article means is that when you master your tracks yourself, you probably won't have the skill/objectivity to do any sort of competent mastering to your track, and therefore should leave most of it alone -- except for overall volume adjustment/maximising, which is done not only by adjusting the master volume fader, but by limiting, compression and so on. This is where the lower volume (-6db) during mixdown comes in, giving you more headroom maximize the volume of the song without any clipping. For the different speakers: a pair of decent studio monitors can help you accurately listen to your mix That's just what i know , again, i'm not an expert, nor am i experienced (my tracks are still not well mixed/mastered) , so other DJTT members, do correct me! |
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