latency, what to do what to do

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latency, what to do what to do
Posted on: 30.10.2012 by Myrle Tazewell
Caution: Long post ahead, no really unless you patient,read the post heading and skip to the bottom.

So Ill start with hardware specs. I have a Focusrite Scarelette 2i2, yes its cheap yes its entry level. My main reson for purchasing it was because I had an Mbox, I was saving for a Stienberg UR824, and the day I decieded to take getting that interface seriously, the Mbox got pissed off and bombed out. Computer wise I have a Quad core AMD, 8gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm HDD that I run with Ableton.

Now to the problem. I was running a proj in Live with a few VST plug ins, and I was ready to arrange and record my plugins to wave from the clip to arrangement using an apc. At most I believe I had about 6 plugins each with their own audio tracks. Now when I play out the clips with out arming and recording I use up between 15 to 20 percent on the resource bar. But the moment I arm all the VST tracks and trigger the first clip, it all goes insane. There is even a delay on the APC's feed back lights. Its a real pain, so do I change my interface or do I up my computer?

Computer wise, I'm believeing Ill probably max out my RAM to 32gigs , in prep for 64bit Ableton 9 and to up my processor to and 8 core AMD.

But if I only need to better my interface, I'm again screwed. I still have not started saving up for a Interface. At this point I'm ready to spend between R3000 to R3500 +-
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
This might be completely off the wall, and I know you don't want to hear it
Myrle Tazewell
30.10.2012		Caution: Long post ahead, no really unless you patient,read the post heading and skip to the bottom.

So Ill start with hardware specs. I have a Focusrite Scarelette 2i2, yes its cheap yes its entry level. My main reson for purchasing it was because I had an Mbox, I was saving for a Stienberg UR824, and the day I decieded to take getting that interface seriously, the Mbox got pissed off and bombed out. Computer wise I have a Quad core AMD, 8gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm HDD that I run with Ableton.

Now to the problem. I was running a proj in Live with a few VST plug ins, and I was ready to arrange and record my plugins to wave from the clip to arrangement using an apc. At most I believe I had about 6 plugins each with their own audio tracks. Now when I play out the clips with out arming and recording I use up between 15 to 20 percent on the resource bar. But the moment I arm all the VST tracks and trigger the first clip, it all goes insane. There is even a delay on the APC's feed back lights. Its a real pain, so do I change my interface or do I up my computer?

Computer wise, I'm believeing Ill probably max out my RAM to 32gigs , in prep for 64bit Ableton 9 and to up my processor to and 8 core AMD.

But if I only need to better my interface, I'm again screwed. I still have not started saving up for a Interface. At this point I'm ready to spend between R3000 to R3500 +-
Dorie Scelzo
31.10.2012
Originally Posted by ZooTV
Lol, it seems to me by your first statement, you wanted to avoid turning this into an Intel vs amd troll war :-P. I won't argue for or against, but my pc has an amd processor and it's a cheap pc I put together from spare family member parts, and yet I can record way more than 6 tracks with vsts on them.
IDK. My only real experience even looking at specs for PCs is finding the wrong articles on Avid's website……and people who use Pro Tools seem to hate AMD. Like I said, it might not be valid with Live……but those are the kinds of problems I've seen on duc & gearslutz when the "solution" was to switch to Intel.

I have no first-hand experience (haven't used a PC for years) and have no vested interest in the flame war……just something to believe about if the OP has any access to an Intel machine that he can install Live & VSTs on to see if that helps.
Arline Receveur
31.10.2012
Originally Posted by ZooTV
Lol, it seems to me by your first statement, you wanted to avoid turning this into an Intel vs amd troll war :-P. I won't argue for or against, but my pc has an amd processor and it's a cheap pc I put together from spare family member parts, and yet I can record way more than 6 tracks with vsts on them.
I'm with you. I have a AMD cpu and ive also owned 2 highly rated intel cpu's and I am almost certainly sure there is no performance differences between the 2. Especially when I picked up a 8 core AMD cpu for less than that of a quad core Intel.

Anyway, Back to the OP. Have you tried just not using the Focusrite at all? Try using ASIO4ALL drivers with the APC and see how you go with that and a buffer of 512.

Maybe try freezing the tracks your not using too??
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
This might be completely off the wall, and I know you don't want to hear it
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
Sounds to me like you need to read up on PDC, mate. (Plugin Delay Compensation).
I second that. your computer specs way outperform my own, and I can run a lot more than 6 vsts simultaneously in a session. I know in ASIO there are setting for latency and buffer sizes. I'm not sure how an apc works midi wise, but are you trying to play each vst at the same time or are you launching clips? I have a midi keyboard and basically I tell live to direct midi to a certain vst at a time (a little red button at the bottom of the bus in clip view)
Myrle Tazewell
30.10.2012		Caution: Long post ahead, no really unless you patient,read the post heading and skip to the bottom.

So Ill start with hardware specs. I have a Focusrite Scarelette 2i2, yes its cheap yes its entry level. My main reson for purchasing it was because I had an Mbox, I was saving for a Stienberg UR824, and the day I decieded to take getting that interface seriously, the Mbox got pissed off and bombed out. Computer wise I have a Quad core AMD, 8gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm HDD that I run with Ableton.

Now to the problem. I was running a proj in Live with a few VST plug ins, and I was ready to arrange and record my plugins to wave from the clip to arrangement using an apc. At most I believe I had about 6 plugins each with their own audio tracks. Now when I play out the clips with out arming and recording I use up between 15 to 20 percent on the resource bar. But the moment I arm all the VST tracks and trigger the first clip, it all goes insane. There is even a delay on the APC's feed back lights. Its a real pain, so do I change my interface or do I up my computer?

Computer wise, I'm believeing Ill probably max out my RAM to 32gigs , in prep for 64bit Ableton 9 and to up my processor to and 8 core AMD.

But if I only need to better my interface, I'm again screwed. I still have not started saving up for a Interface. At this point I'm ready to spend between R3000 to R3500 +-
Myrle Tazewell
03.11.2012		Okay so, I took all the tips,trick and advice and applied it to a whole new recording project last evening and discovered my settings are crap. Now I know or so i believe that everyone's setting will be different based on computer and interface specs, but is there a Audio setting for recording for dummies manual anywhere? or can someone advise me what they have there specs running at in Ableton on ASIO, and yes i am that slow so i will need it step by step block by block.

@Crackbot, My computer runs perfectly, well perfectly enough for me to the point where i will only want to reinstall all the junck on it when and if i go the intel route. And that will only happen once I've tried out the AMD 8 core in Ableton 9, cause like it's a freakin cores at the price of a intel quad.
Frieda Swoboda
02.11.2012		I have an Focusrite 8i6 and my latency is around 8-11ms in Ableton. With a 20 track song full of VSTs my load never goes over 20%. Although Alchemy sometimes acts weird and eats up resources, but I believe that's an Alchemy issue since no other synth does it.

I have an Intel i5 with 4 gigs of Ram.

I believe you have a computer problem. How does your computer run outside of Ableton? Maybe try reinstalling everything to factory new.
Myrle Tazewell
02.11.2012		Hmm very interesting, I haven't had time, but toevening I'm gonna bump all these idea's and tips into the recording session toevening . On the focusrite, yeah it's crap but it does basic interface functions, which is what I needed it for at the time. I have decided to purchase a new one but I wont sell this one a back up audio I/o is never a bad thing. I have been looking at either the Presonus 44VSL or Firestudio moblie mainly because of the added I/O's. My main worry with the Firestudio is the firewire. any sugesstion's ? yeah Im gearsluting this post.

Intel vs AMD, I have heard of this in the past but blew it off as a fan boy debate. i believe I should read up on it some more. On thing that does make sense is the fact that Mac is now intel based and mac and music are like nutella and white bread. but hey i like i said ill research before i do the whole switch up.

thanks again for the tips and advice.
Dorie Scelzo
31.10.2012
Originally Posted by ZooTV
Lol, it seems to me by your first statement, you wanted to avoid turning this into an Intel vs amd troll war :-P. I won't argue for or against, but my pc has an amd processor and it's a cheap pc I put together from spare family member parts, and yet I can record way more than 6 tracks with vsts on them.
IDK. My only real experience even looking at specs for PCs is finding the wrong articles on Avid's website……and people who use Pro Tools seem to hate AMD. Like I said, it might not be valid with Live……but those are the kinds of problems I've seen on duc & gearslutz when the "solution" was to switch to Intel.

I have no first-hand experience (haven't used a PC for years) and have no vested interest in the flame war……just something to believe about if the OP has any access to an Intel machine that he can install Live & VSTs on to see if that helps.
Arline Receveur
31.10.2012
Originally Posted by ZooTV
Lol, it seems to me by your first statement, you wanted to avoid turning this into an Intel vs amd troll war :-P. I won't argue for or against, but my pc has an amd processor and it's a cheap pc I put together from spare family member parts, and yet I can record way more than 6 tracks with vsts on them.
I'm with you. I have a AMD cpu and ive also owned 2 highly rated intel cpu's and I am almost certainly sure there is no performance differences between the 2. Especially when I picked up a 8 core AMD cpu for less than that of a quad core Intel.

Anyway, Back to the OP. Have you tried just not using the Focusrite at all? Try using ASIO4ALL drivers with the APC and see how you go with that and a buffer of 512.

Maybe try freezing the tracks your not using too??
Janyce Henningson
31.10.2012		I have a Saffire USB and it's the worst soundcard I have ever owned.
I'm lucky if I can get 50ms latency in Ableton - it's just unusuable for my setup and is going on eBay this week.
The USB 2 driver won't even load on my pc.

Focusrite say it's a Windows problem with USB and in paticular Intel processors:
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/...le.php?id=1128

Yours isn't listed as having problems but I bet it's related... Sell it and get an Audio 2
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
This might be completely off the wall, and I know you don't want to hear it
Dorie Scelzo
30.10.2012		This might be completely off the wall, and I know you don't want to hear it……I'm also not 100% sure that it matters with Live, but……………if anyone says anything about AMD vs. Intel, Intel is preferred for Audio Applications.

I'm honestly not sure why. But with the specs and behavior you're giving, something is seriously wrong.

Also, Plugin Delay Compensation has to do with keeping everything in sync when plugins take different amounts of time to do what they're doing. If that were an issue, it'd show up when you were just playing things together, not only when you're trying to record.
Myrle Tazewell
30.10.2012		Yay, I have reached boss mode in noob world. I never hear of PDC, definitely sounds like the fix, I google it, gonna do some reading now. Thanks guys.@ZooTv, yeah I'm launching midi clips that send audio to audio clips.
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
Sounds to me like you need to read up on PDC, mate. (Plugin Delay Compensation).
I second that. your computer specs way outperform my own, and I can run a lot more than 6 vsts simultaneously in a session. I know in ASIO there are setting for latency and buffer sizes. I'm not sure how an apc works midi wise, but are you trying to play each vst at the same time or are you launching clips? I have a midi keyboard and basically I tell live to direct midi to a certain vst at a time (a little red button at the bottom of the bus in clip view)
Brunilda Kora
30.10.2012		Sounds to me like you need to read up on PDC, mate. (Plugin Delay Compensation).
Myrle Tazewell
30.10.2012		Thanks but all my USB's are direct in my computer, and the midi notes are already done in the plugins. Hmmm would using a single midi channel sending notes to the plugins help. I tried uping the buffer would lowering help? I have kept ASIO on default, are there better settings for ASIO?
Continue fighting the boredom and save me.
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012		Try making sure your usbs are connected either directly to the pc, or to an actively powered usb hub. Also, try playing with your buffer size in the able to settings. If that doesn't work, check your sound drivers ASIO settings, apc and other firmware. Try recording each track separately? Trying using the apc to jot down the ide and then painting it midi to save resources?

I'm just spitting out ideas here. Can't really go in depth as I'm trying to fight boredom in class :-P

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