Help needed: W&W sounding drop sidechain settings?
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Help needed: W&W sounding drop sidechain settings? Posted on: 16.10.2013 by Dannie Dimora Hey, i'm currently working on an original track and i've basically got the intro, outro, first pre-drop melody and second pre-drop melodies already done and mixed down, and i've just started with the drop. I already have the rhythmic part of it, drums are done, but it just lacks the low-end crunchiness you can hear in tracks like this: or this Or even Garrixes Animals. So i said "i'll do it, it shouldn't be that hard. Turns out it's about 3 days i'm in a complete stall regarding the drop, sidechain techniques i've used in the past don't seem to work as the bass hits at the same time as the kick, and it falls off after it, which is unusual compared to what i'm used to do (duck the bass under the kick and let it rise after). If i don't sidechain, i completely lose the punch of the kick and it ends up sounding like a retarded slowed-down hardstyle track, while if i do sidechain, i lose all of the bass during the kick and the first quarter-to-half of the beat just sounds dull and lifeless. So, any help? Anything? :P Thanks! -l | |
| Tera Baragan 24.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Maven
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| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
Oh don't get me started on pokemon cards... When everybody switched over to gameboy games, i still rocked my perfectly preserved deck Haha thanks , i don't like arpeggiators integrated in synths, that's all manually positioned midi data |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
As i said, the synth is just there to remind me of what i need to do next, i haven't even started on the top-end |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
Okay, so i took a little hiatus from the track since it was growing over my head and i had to concentrate on studies. Basically, this is what i want it to sound like: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1575509 And this is the crap that i'm trying to fix now (NOTE: It's absolutely not final, the synth part is there only to give an idea what the drop will sound like when it's finished, but the things i'm concentrating on here are the kick and the bass) https://soundcloud.com/polygon-official/drop-test-djtt Now to reply to you. 1) I've completely removed the clashy frequencies of the bass from the kick and vice versa, at least i tried to do so, so the kick itself is not really clashing. 2)I'm sidechaining using a very snappy snare sample on a channel that is routed to no bus. So in theory it should be snappy enough. But are you suggesting of moving the sidechain notes offbeat by a 16th? That i've never heard of. I'll try it now. 3)Nah, i don't want it to be TOO distorted. Hardstyle kicks in 128bpm tracks just don't seem to fit... And i've already done the kick and redoing it to be completely in-key would probably destroy my whole track... Thank you for your help!! |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by AllDay
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| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by PjAndreasson
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| Dannie Dimora 16.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by ImNotDedYet
As for the second part of your answer, i'm not entirely sure if you're being highly helpful or highly sarcastic. And if it is helpful, well yeah i've pretty much tried everything in my knowledge. |
| Dannie Dimora 16.10.2013 | Hey, i'm currently working on an original track and i've basically got the intro, outro, first pre-drop melody and second pre-drop melodies already done and mixed down, and i've just started with the drop. I already have the rhythmic part of it, drums are done, but it just lacks the low-end crunchiness you can hear in tracks like this: or this Or even Garrixes Animals. So i said "i'll do it, it shouldn't be that hard. Turns out it's about 3 days i'm in a complete stall regarding the drop, sidechain techniques i've used in the past don't seem to work as the bass hits at the same time as the kick, and it falls off after it, which is unusual compared to what i'm used to do (duck the bass under the kick and let it rise after). If i don't sidechain, i completely lose the punch of the kick and it ends up sounding like a retarded slowed-down hardstyle track, while if i do sidechain, i lose all of the bass during the kick and the first quarter-to-half of the beat just sounds dull and lifeless. So, any help? Anything? :P Thanks! -l |
| Tera Baragan 24.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Maven
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| Yukiko Beauvil 23.10.2013 | What you are looking for is not kick and bass, those songs doesn't have a bass to say. They pretty much consist of a really long 808 kick with a snappy kick layered together, so basically what you are looking for is not bass and kick to get them together. You only want to have a huge long kick that lasts for complete 1 beat and tails off before the next kick appears. |
| Tera Baragan 22.10.2013 | After listening to your song I definitely believe its just a bad kick. Check out goldbaby, he has given out some free samples over the last couple year. Check out the blofield free samples on his page. You need a deeper more driving kick personally for your style. The overall layout and arrangement is beautiful tho dude! : ) |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
Oh don't get me started on pokemon cards... When everybody switched over to gameboy games, i still rocked my perfectly preserved deck Haha thanks , i don't like arpeggiators integrated in synths, that's all manually positioned midi data |
| Tobias Merrills 21.10.2013 | Having a good kick will help the rest of your song though. Its like having a good pair of legs but a heart with disease. If your having trouble using kick samples you have, do what i did. Breakdown and buy a pack of kick samples you really like. I was against this at first but then i came to the realization that its quite fun! Like when i used to buy packs of pokemon cards lol. Sometimes you find a holo.. AAAAnd that drop is sweet as a batch of cookies. The 32nd like triplets are trippy. I wonder if thats just a synth arpeggio or midi data.. |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
As i said, the synth is just there to remind me of what i need to do next, i haven't even started on the top-end |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 | anothe one that kind of describes the sound that i'm looking for: (skip to 1:43 for the drop) |
| Tobias Merrills 21.10.2013 | Well this easy now. Honestly your kick is shit. Thats most of it. Its all some flabby raquetball sounding attack. Also i would raise the volume and stereo spread the synth lead. Your bass sounds fine. Maybe you dont needs a bassline. Just a kick with alot of sub. Not trynna be rude man but i could describe that kick any other way. I would be happy to collab on this track if your really that stuck. Just throwing that out there. Hope it helps! |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by Negatron
Okay, so i took a little hiatus from the track since it was growing over my head and i had to concentrate on studies. Basically, this is what i want it to sound like: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1575509 And this is the crap that i'm trying to fix now (NOTE: It's absolutely not final, the synth part is there only to give an idea what the drop will sound like when it's finished, but the things i'm concentrating on here are the kick and the bass) https://soundcloud.com/polygon-official/drop-test-djtt Now to reply to you. 1) I've completely removed the clashy frequencies of the bass from the kick and vice versa, at least i tried to do so, so the kick itself is not really clashing. 2)I'm sidechaining using a very snappy snare sample on a channel that is routed to no bus. So in theory it should be snappy enough. But are you suggesting of moving the sidechain notes offbeat by a 16th? That i've never heard of. I'll try it now. 3)Nah, i don't want it to be TOO distorted. Hardstyle kicks in 128bpm tracks just don't seem to fit... And i've already done the kick and redoing it to be completely in-key would probably destroy my whole track... Thank you for your help!! |
| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by AllDay
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| Dannie Dimora 21.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by PjAndreasson
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| Tobias Merrills 19.10.2013 | Hmm if you posted your track that would help. But Generally i believe its a few things. 1. Your kick and Bass are fighting. Meaning you have a subby kick and subby bass.Perhaps try a punchier kick and roll of some lows. or vice versa 2. A trick i picked up somewhere a long time ago is regarding your actual side chain technique. MOST people just sidechain their bass off of their main kick. This will hurt your mix in alot of ways. What you want to do is create another kick track. Title it "false kick" turn the output so it has none. Leave it at 0.0. Copy your kick to this track. Then edit the kick on the false track so that is shorter than your actual kick. Because what you want is your sidechain to be on the "and" beat not the "uh" beat. Having the sub part of your bass trigger the sidechain will result in a slower pumping action and make your track feel slow. So drag or cut the tail of the kick so the sub is not there. This will result in a snappier pumping action. I sometime drag it further to taste depending on the urgency of the track. This will allow for a more audible bass even if they are fighting. 3. Are you going for a trendy hardstyle kick? If so then you dont need a bass most likely. That should be all of your low end unless you layer a sub bass on top. But that tends to be what a hardstlyle kick anyways. In "the code" They just have that hardstlye kick with a very distorted lead thats spread very wide across a stereo image. /end rant /i miss this community |
| Tera Baragan 18.10.2013 | The general consensus for compression is to have it at about 2.00 ms attack and 40.0ms release with a low setting around 1 or 2 would be best for your situation. It sounds as if your release time on your sidechain is huge! |
| Rodolfo Oriol 17.10.2013 | I may not be right, but try to increase the attack and a little bit on the ratio (about 3:5) on the compressor to give it a quick duck on the kick. This will make the synth play like usuall and still gives the kick headroom. I haven't tested this yet, but this is just what comes up to my mind. And btw, give it a bit alot of stereo enhancement, as this will actually save you headroom for the kick. |
| Latoria Kavulich 17.10.2013 | Done. don't sweat it |
| Dannie Dimora 16.10.2013 | MODS, could you please move this thread, or close it and i'll repost in production? |
| Dannie Dimora 16.10.2013 |
Originally Posted by ImNotDedYet
As for the second part of your answer, i'm not entirely sure if you're being highly helpful or highly sarcastic. And if it is helpful, well yeah i've pretty much tried everything in my knowledge. |
| Lakeesha Storman 16.10.2013 | You should probably post this in the Music Production community
. This is for music that has been produced, or mixes. Actual questions and answers go there. As for an answer...you got me. I've never heard a bassline consisting of sixteenth or thirty-second notes only, and that would only play during the kick. I'm assuming you've played with all of your sidechain compressor's settings, specifically the knee, attack and release? |
| Dannie Dimora 16.10.2013 | BAHMP plx |
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