Car stereos I have an absolute bitch of a time getting my mixes to translate well to car stereos - especially the cheap ones. They sound good enough everywhere else - head phones, stereos, computer speakers, my monitors (of course). To make matters worse, I don't own a car but I just got back from a road trip where I relistened to my "catalogue" on a rental (shitty ford focus factory stereo). The bass is just so damn exaggerated in a bad way where kick and bass just swallow the mix.
Now I know some of my mixes are too hot on the low end. Some of that is by design, sometimes it crosses the line into just sloppy. How worried about this should I be? Should I just ignore it and tell my self - shitty stereo sounds shitty? Some of other ppls tracks I listened to managed to sound half decent and some had the same problems mine do. I don't want to focus too much on getting it to sound good in these situations and lose the heavy low end in places where it needs it (NOT super exaggerated systems). |
Pandora Ravo
08.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
This is all really good advice. I already use most of these techniques. I always side chain the bass with the kick, although I try to keep it more transparent than a lot of stuff that's popular now. I've had mixed results with notching bass lines to get kicks to sit right. Some people swear by that but personally I get better results with a little ducking.
What I'm talking about here though is the sub (below 50hz). Clearly if you've got a really subby element you want to roll off at some point but roll off too much and it loses the whole purpose for being there - roll of too little and you're "hot and sloppy". My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this.
Good point. My room isn't the best either, although the carpet does help a lot. The room itself is a bedroom with a walk in closet and master bathroom, so it's hard to keep sound from bouncing around. I'm sure you've got a decent set of monitors as well which probably helps a lot. I have Sony HS80M's and they really help clean everything up even with the situation in my room. I also conveniently have a portable 60 inch projector screen I place behind me when I'm working on my mixes and it seems to dampen the sound quite a bit, rather than letting the noise bounce off the walls. If you can afford 3 projector screens even and place them around you and pick up some memory foam even to attach to the screens, you'll be miles ahead. You can probably pick all this up decently cheap on kijiji or craigs. (Just a thrifty idea) |
Nikole Resende
06.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this.
Even though it's not an ideal solution, spectrum meters can help you to at least sort out your worst problems.
They can't replace good monitoring, but they'll show you where kick and bass may be clashing and how much low end your tracks have below what you can hear on your speakers. |
Augustina Zulu
06.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Mozzy1
Hey bud, I believe the best approach and best advice I could give is to really monitor your low end levels and where they lie on the "Frequency Spectrum". If you monitor each individual channel, you may notice that the "bass", "kick" and "sub-bass" are overlapping quite a bit if it is sounding too "hot" on the low end. I would recommend setting each element within a specific range on the low end of the frequency spectrum so the mix stands out more and focus on side-chaining your kick to every instrument within your track and maybe even feed some side-chain elements from the bass in your track to the sub bass so it compresses the sound of the sub-bass a little bit and doesn't make your bass elements sound "muddy". EQ is the most critical and important process to pay attention too when looking to make your track stand out and you'll learn more with each track you take on. Hopefully this helps you out a little bit.
If you're not sure what side-chaining is, definitely do your research as it helps define the elements within your mix so you don't have to turn up the "gain" on each mixer channel to make specific elements stand out.
This is all really good advice. I already use most of these techniques. I always side chain the bass with the kick, although I try to keep it more transparent than a lot of stuff that's popular now. I've had mixed results with notching bass lines to get kicks to sit right. Some people swear by that but personally I get better results with a little ducking.
What I'm talking about here though is the sub (below 50hz). Clearly if you've got a really subby element you want to roll off at some point but roll off too much and it loses the whole purpose for being there - roll of too little and you're "hot and sloppy". My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this. |
Pandora Ravo
02.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
I have an absolute bitch of a time getting my mixes to translate well to car stereos - especially the cheap ones. They sound good enough everywhere else - head phones, stereos, computer speakers, my monitors (of course). To make matters worse, I don't own a car but I just got back from a road trip where I relistened to my "catalogue" on a rental (shitty ford focus factory stereo). The bass is just so damn exaggerated in a bad way where kick and bass just swallow the mix.
Now I know some of my mixes are too hot on the low end. Some of that is by design, sometimes it crosses the line into just sloppy. How worried about this should I be? Should I just ignore it and tell my self - shitty stereo sounds shitty? Some of other ppls tracks I listened to managed to sound half decent and some had the same problems mine do. I don't want to focus too much on getting it to sound good in these situations and lose the heavy low end in places where it needs it (NOT super exaggerated systems).
Hey bud, I believe the best approach and best advice I could give is to really monitor your low end levels and where they lie on the "Frequency Spectrum". If you monitor each individual channel, you may notice that the "bass", "kick" and "sub-bass" are overlapping quite a bit if it is sounding too "hot" on the low end. I would recommend setting each element within a specific range on the low end of the frequency spectrum so the mix stands out more and focus on side-chaining your kick to every instrument within your track and maybe even feed some side-chain elements from the bass in your track to the sub bass so it compresses the sound of the sub-bass a little bit and doesn't make your bass elements sound "muddy". EQ is the most critical and important process to pay attention too when looking to make your track stand out and you'll learn more with each track you take on. Hopefully this helps you out a little bit.
If you're not sure what side-chaining is, definitely do your research as it helps define the elements within your mix so you don't have to turn up the "gain" on each mixer channel to make specific elements stand out. |
Augustina Zulu
30.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Tarekith
Sounds like you already have a goal in mind with where you want your tracks played, so nothing wrong with focusing on that. Still, not impossible to have tracks that translate well just about everywhere, especially if you know you tend to keep the low end a bit hot and sloppy.
Hot is good - sloppy not so much. I believe part of the problem is that I have a really hard time monitoring sub. I'm working with with some oldschool KRK v8s and they have a very big bass presence but not exactly accurate in the sub range. Also the room is far from perfect as far as acoustics go.
It's really a fine line between rolling off too much and too little in the sub region. Do you have a rule of thumb for processing the sub area in a bass heavy track (believe big 808 kicks, Minitaur bass, etc.) ? Is there a certian frequency that you would start rolling off at? Or is there a trick other than eqing? I typically don't get too into multiband compression but maybe that could help? |
Augustina Zulu
30.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by grazz16
I get you on the car stereo front
But see i always have the exact opposite problem, whenever i would listen to my mixes on the car stereo the bass would completely disappear :/
Sounds like you're either getting some phase cancelation or there just isn't enough sub there in the first place. The reason car's boost the subs soo much is that the more audible bass area is usually swallowed by the sound of the motor so you could try listening with the car motor off and see if you can hear it. Maybe it's just getting drowned out. |
Augustina Zulu
24.12.2013 | I have an absolute bitch of a time getting my mixes to translate well to car stereos - especially the cheap ones. They sound good enough everywhere else - head phones, stereos, computer speakers, my monitors (of course). To make matters worse, I don't own a car but I just got back from a road trip where I relistened to my "catalogue" on a rental (shitty ford focus factory stereo). The bass is just so damn exaggerated in a bad way where kick and bass just swallow the mix.
Now I know some of my mixes are too hot on the low end. Some of that is by design, sometimes it crosses the line into just sloppy. How worried about this should I be? Should I just ignore it and tell my self - shitty stereo sounds shitty? Some of other ppls tracks I listened to managed to sound half decent and some had the same problems mine do. I don't want to focus too much on getting it to sound good in these situations and lose the heavy low end in places where it needs it (NOT super exaggerated systems). |
Pandora Ravo
08.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
This is all really good advice. I already use most of these techniques. I always side chain the bass with the kick, although I try to keep it more transparent than a lot of stuff that's popular now. I've had mixed results with notching bass lines to get kicks to sit right. Some people swear by that but personally I get better results with a little ducking.
What I'm talking about here though is the sub (below 50hz). Clearly if you've got a really subby element you want to roll off at some point but roll off too much and it loses the whole purpose for being there - roll of too little and you're "hot and sloppy". My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this.
Good point. My room isn't the best either, although the carpet does help a lot. The room itself is a bedroom with a walk in closet and master bathroom, so it's hard to keep sound from bouncing around. I'm sure you've got a decent set of monitors as well which probably helps a lot. I have Sony HS80M's and they really help clean everything up even with the situation in my room. I also conveniently have a portable 60 inch projector screen I place behind me when I'm working on my mixes and it seems to dampen the sound quite a bit, rather than letting the noise bounce off the walls. If you can afford 3 projector screens even and place them around you and pick up some memory foam even to attach to the screens, you'll be miles ahead. You can probably pick all this up decently cheap on kijiji or craigs. (Just a thrifty idea) |
Monserrate Rupnow
07.01.2014 | Yeah, a good spectrum analyzer is definitely a useful tool to double-check what you can and can't hear. Just don't focus too much on it, a lot of times thing can look weird but sound just fine.
A lot of translating your tracks is just actively getting out and listening to your songs on as many systems as possible, keeping track of wha sounds off, and adjusting next time you're writing in the studio. Repeat. |
Nikole Resende
06.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this.
Even though it's not an ideal solution, spectrum meters can help you to at least sort out your worst problems.
They can't replace good monitoring, but they'll show you where kick and bass may be clashing and how much low end your tracks have below what you can hear on your speakers. |
Augustina Zulu
06.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Mozzy1
Hey bud, I believe the best approach and best advice I could give is to really monitor your low end levels and where they lie on the "Frequency Spectrum". If you monitor each individual channel, you may notice that the "bass", "kick" and "sub-bass" are overlapping quite a bit if it is sounding too "hot" on the low end. I would recommend setting each element within a specific range on the low end of the frequency spectrum so the mix stands out more and focus on side-chaining your kick to every instrument within your track and maybe even feed some side-chain elements from the bass in your track to the sub bass so it compresses the sound of the sub-bass a little bit and doesn't make your bass elements sound "muddy". EQ is the most critical and important process to pay attention too when looking to make your track stand out and you'll learn more with each track you take on. Hopefully this helps you out a little bit.
If you're not sure what side-chaining is, definitely do your research as it helps define the elements within your mix so you don't have to turn up the "gain" on each mixer channel to make specific elements stand out.
This is all really good advice. I already use most of these techniques. I always side chain the bass with the kick, although I try to keep it more transparent than a lot of stuff that's popular now. I've had mixed results with notching bass lines to get kicks to sit right. Some people swear by that but personally I get better results with a little ducking.
What I'm talking about here though is the sub (below 50hz). Clearly if you've got a really subby element you want to roll off at some point but roll off too much and it loses the whole purpose for being there - roll of too little and you're "hot and sloppy". My problem is (which is really a room problem) is that I can't really get good monitoring in that area. I don't mix with a sub woofer and the room acoustics are far from perfect. So I end up guessing a lot (and guessing wrong). Just wondering how other ppl deal with this. |
Pandora Ravo
02.01.2014 |
Originally Posted by Nick V
I have an absolute bitch of a time getting my mixes to translate well to car stereos - especially the cheap ones. They sound good enough everywhere else - head phones, stereos, computer speakers, my monitors (of course). To make matters worse, I don't own a car but I just got back from a road trip where I relistened to my "catalogue" on a rental (shitty ford focus factory stereo). The bass is just so damn exaggerated in a bad way where kick and bass just swallow the mix.
Now I know some of my mixes are too hot on the low end. Some of that is by design, sometimes it crosses the line into just sloppy. How worried about this should I be? Should I just ignore it and tell my self - shitty stereo sounds shitty? Some of other ppls tracks I listened to managed to sound half decent and some had the same problems mine do. I don't want to focus too much on getting it to sound good in these situations and lose the heavy low end in places where it needs it (NOT super exaggerated systems).
Hey bud, I believe the best approach and best advice I could give is to really monitor your low end levels and where they lie on the "Frequency Spectrum". If you monitor each individual channel, you may notice that the "bass", "kick" and "sub-bass" are overlapping quite a bit if it is sounding too "hot" on the low end. I would recommend setting each element within a specific range on the low end of the frequency spectrum so the mix stands out more and focus on side-chaining your kick to every instrument within your track and maybe even feed some side-chain elements from the bass in your track to the sub bass so it compresses the sound of the sub-bass a little bit and doesn't make your bass elements sound "muddy". EQ is the most critical and important process to pay attention too when looking to make your track stand out and you'll learn more with each track you take on. Hopefully this helps you out a little bit.
If you're not sure what side-chaining is, definitely do your research as it helps define the elements within your mix so you don't have to turn up the "gain" on each mixer channel to make specific elements stand out. |
Augustina Zulu
30.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Tarekith
Sounds like you already have a goal in mind with where you want your tracks played, so nothing wrong with focusing on that. Still, not impossible to have tracks that translate well just about everywhere, especially if you know you tend to keep the low end a bit hot and sloppy.
Hot is good - sloppy not so much. I believe part of the problem is that I have a really hard time monitoring sub. I'm working with with some oldschool KRK v8s and they have a very big bass presence but not exactly accurate in the sub range. Also the room is far from perfect as far as acoustics go.
It's really a fine line between rolling off too much and too little in the sub region. Do you have a rule of thumb for processing the sub area in a bass heavy track (believe big 808 kicks, Minitaur bass, etc.) ? Is there a certian frequency that you would start rolling off at? Or is there a trick other than eqing? I typically don't get too into multiband compression but maybe that could help? |
Augustina Zulu
30.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by grazz16
I get you on the car stereo front
But see i always have the exact opposite problem, whenever i would listen to my mixes on the car stereo the bass would completely disappear :/
Sounds like you're either getting some phase cancelation or there just isn't enough sub there in the first place. The reason car's boost the subs soo much is that the more audible bass area is usually swallowed by the sound of the motor so you could try listening with the car motor off and see if you can hear it. Maybe it's just getting drowned out. |
Jacinto Wildstein
29.12.2013 | If you want to make money from this (i don't) then surely it would be best to have your music sound great everywhere? The more people that believe i like it, the more interest, the greater the social build up. Develop your brand?!? So I would never accept that its a shitty system. Besides it an opportunity to learn why and how they make there tracks work on that car system. I bet your subs are so loud that it all sounds mushy, they are swamping everything else. Have a look at your track in a spectrum analyser and I bet it is all bunched up to the left. Do some drastic eq'ing on the really low end - cut everything under 20hz as we cant hear that anyway - it might allow other elements to breathe.
"Experiments have shown that a healthy young person hears all sound frequencies from approximately 20 to 20,000 hertz." Any thing outside of that range is just filling up the bucket, so when it comes to the the higher frequencies they simply have no room in there. Also try side chaining your kik and bass line a little.
Luck. |
Berta Baie
25.12.2013 | I get you on the car stereo front
But see i always have the exact opposite problem, whenever i would listen to my mixes on the car stereo the bass would completely disappear :/ |
Monserrate Rupnow
24.12.2013 | Sounds like you already have a goal in mind with where you want your tracks played, so nothing wrong with focusing on that. Still, not impossible to have tracks that translate well just about everywhere, especially if you know you tend to keep the low end a bit hot and sloppy. |
