traktor mapping- multiple commands to 1 key not working
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traktor mapping- multiple commands to 1 key not working Posted on: 12.05.2011 by Anna Jenny hey guys,i have traktor 1.2 and i'm trying to do something (seemingly) simple with command mapping but its not working. i've tried to search but had no luck what i'm trying to do is map the same command twice or more to the same key but i only comes out once. problem: i map 'cue/loop move' -> 'forward' to the keyboard key '3', and duplicate it twice so i have 3 instances, all mapped to the key '3' - the idea here is that i press the 3 key and it moves 3 beats forward. however, it only does 1 repetition of the command even though its there 3 times for the same key. if i click the > arrow 3 times with my mouse it works exactly as expected, moving forward 3 times, so it doesnt make sense why mapping the forward command 3 times wouldnt do the same thing. trying to do it in two 'forward' commands, by also mapping a cue/loop size adjustment in between the two keys results in only the last 'cue/loop move' command being performed. it seems as though, if its a deliberate feature, it ignores all duplicates for the same function except the last one in the mapping list. i can get it to jump 3 beats by mixing beatjump and cue/loop move commands, ie beatjump +2 then cue/loop move -> forward - and this works fine for a normally playing song but not with a loop... and the whole reason im doing this is to move an active loop so thats no use to me. can someone please respond whether i'm just missing something simple to get such functionality to work or confirm that this is just a limitation of traktor's mapping system? cheers jeremy | |
| Dorcas Bassignani 15.05.2011 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
However; 35 175 140... |
| Neoma Picklesimer 12.11.2011 | Isnt the article http://www.djranking s.com/2011/11/0...heory-for-djs/ helping out to get the Twitch Slicer Mode working with Traktor? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 18.05.2011 | This what I meant 'roughly': set up a button that will engage the loop recorder with the d/w at 100 and that engages a loop of the same length (will it be interesting to use a 'store' function at this point?) so the loop recorder is your 'steady' track playing. Now set up different buttons either with loop moves (actually you could use loop inc/decr from the loop in or loop out points to increase or reduce your loop that 'could' be also a solution, or you could use the loop backwards commands too), add to those same buttons the function for the d/w of the loop recorder to be set at 0%. You now have the choice of playing the loop recorder or your 'slices' and eventually exit/replay by the hotcue/loop you stored. Sorry I'm believeing a bit loud without testing, I like brainstorming sessions |
| Anna Jenny 17.05.2011 | well for me the slicer in the novation video operates significantly differently to traktor's effects unless i've misunderstood how they work... i will look into seeing if i can combine different effects to achieve the result i want but if it does even work, i'm not sure its the best way. also, a 3/7 beat jump is much more important than you believe because being able to move that distance gives you instant access to the slices 4/8 of the section, which usually contains fills, musical peaks, rises, etc. i wouldn't even bother with a slicer at all if i couldn't access all 8 slices of of an 8 slice segment, but that might just be due to my concepts and ideas for my sets. (i can foresee the most annoying thing being with acapellas where i want to grab a specific word or short phrase and its not available because i dont have the odd numbered jumps implemented) using a 2 beat loop doesn't solve any of that either because when it comes time for me to move 3x 2 beat jumps to access slice 3 i still need to use multiple commands to make a 6 beat jump. same with slices 5, 6, 7 which are 10, 12 and 14 beat jumps. when i was trying to make it relative/scalable, every slice except 6 worked because i could get there using ? beat (and manually move back to 1 beat size) or ? beat + 1 beat jump. seeing as the moves were all inc/dec commands, whereever it started is where it would finish and reset slice 6 requires 4 + 2 and i had no way of making a 3rd cue/loop size move to get it back to 1. if it wasn't the cue/loop size coming to rest on 2 at the end of this slice i would have perfect scalability for all slice lengths up to 4 beats long (after that point the longest size isn't long enough to jump far enough forward in 2 moves) i believe the solution might lie in some advanced midi tweaking |
| Kecia Wnukowski 16.05.2011 |
edit: forgot to mention I was doing this to prepare for the release of the Novation Twitch... the Traktor version of the video didn't have any looping/slicer functionality shown so I figured I'd make my own in case it ships without a slicer in their mapping.
What about a combination of the loop recorder and slicer and or beatmasher(s)? I'm believeing buttons: activate a loop of the length of your choice so the track won't skip, some of them activating and setting the loop recorder and all necessary settings (including d/w from 0 to 100%), some others beatslicer and/or the beatmasher(s) for funky sounds; or a mix of them all? I mean you could set up a loop and set up the loop recorder, then you use combination of d/w from 0 to 100% for the loop recorder and loop move (or beatjumps) for your track so you're always in time - by the way you should try with only jumps or move of 2/4/8/16/32 beats, I believe that would make your attempts easier - (and eventually use fx for some more actions). I believe that could be a real potential solution and quite easy to set up mapping wise. What do you believe? |
| Anna Jenny 15.05.2011 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e04Ftr1TEpY showing how its working so far... would love to work out a way to have the jumps work a bit tidier - i've found that when getting really crazy with it something goes wrong with i assume is due to the down/up commands happening at different times and possibly overlapping down/up states on different keys when going fast ive never delved into midi translation or whatever its called (where you put a piece of software between device and traktor to output different midi to what's going on) but maybe with a controller i could have it so that 1 key on the controller simultaneously outputs 2 different midi keys, doing the two jumps at exactly the same time, therefore solving the problem of the down/up commands happening at different times? edit: forgot to mention I was doing this to prepare for the release of the Novation Twitch... the Traktor version of the video didn't have any looping/slicer functionality shown so I figured I'd make my own in case it ships without a slicer in their mapping. Dear Novation - you can have my mapping if you want it. |
| Dorcas Bassignani 15.05.2011 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
However; 35 175 140... |
| Marshall Aby 15.05.2011 | Cool stuff, I'm subscribing to this thread |
| Anna Jenny 14.05.2011 | as there wasn't such a feature built into traktor, i wanted to create a slicer with the same functionality as the novation twitch/itch slicer that appears in the twitch demo video (see 2:25-3:37 on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytM05o1wqhw&t=2m25s) ive managed to recreate it, and the way it works is the keys 1-8 move to different 1 beat loops within an 8 beat section. (it is very reliant on modifiers which i use to track the current position within the 8 beat section and to perform the correct number of jumps forward or backward based on that position) my implementation is a bit clunky with the commands happening in 2 parts (down/up of keypress) - works perfectly in that it ends up in the right place, but the jump happens in 2 parts in some places and this leads to a little bit of audio creeping in from the wrong loop while its in transit. also i found that really fast triggering caused it to lose its place - maybe because i was triggering a new down before completing the last up had completed. functionality wise, main differences between my version and itch are: 1. in my implementation the 8 beat section doesn't continue moving forward like it does in itch - ultimately would like to have both options via a switch or something because i can see good uses for both static and dynamically updated sections 2. mine moves the loop - itch appears to retrigger the start of the beat. with mine moving it halfway through a beat means you get the first half of the initial loop and the 2nd half of the target loop. i really like the way this works - all the jumping around feels really seamless because the loop never stops 'flowing' (if that makes sense) i will post a video later on showing functionality - maybe you might have ideas on a better way to do it or how to improve |
| Kecia Wnukowski 14.05.2011 | Yes increase/decrease would be part of your solution and you may have to work on some modifier's magic too. Did you use modifiers (would they be useful)?
on 6 i get the same issue as before with multiple commands happening at the same time, not in the order listed in the mapping.
I'm not sure I have a good idea about what you would want to achieve but have you explored the idea of using chained beatmasher(s)/slicer(s) and eventually beatjumps to get the result(s) you seek? |
| Anna Jenny 14.05.2011 | tip for usage of invert: even though direct doesn't let you see or click the checkbox for invert, its state as set in inc/dec still affects it in direct. so all you need to do to use it with direct is switch to inc, click the box, and switch back. found this one out the hard (and slow) way when a direct command wasn't working on the key down press as expected and i couldn't see why |
| Anna Jenny 14.05.2011 | invert doesn't appear as an option when either cue/loop move or cue/loop size is set to direct so looks like i'll need to work with inc/dec instead... its okay though because it appears multiple inc/dec can stack and repeat after starting to use inc/dec instead i got the idea to make the size of the loops (and therefore also the length of the overall section being sampled) in my looper-thing dymanic - ie the jumps were relative to the starting quantization (starting on 1 there would be 8x 1 beat sections over 8 beats, on 1/2 there would be 8x 1/2 beat sections over 4 beats, etc). this required me to make sure that if i started on 1, i got back to 1 by the end of the function. works for all move functions except move 6 move 5: (size starts 1) size inc (1 -> 2) size inc (2 -> 4) move dec (total moved 4) invert size dec (4 -> 2) invert size dec (2 -> 1) invert move dec (moved total 5) (size ends 1) on 6 i get the same issue as before with multiple commands happening at the same time, not in the order listed in the mapping. move 6: (size starts 1) size inc (1 -> 2) size inc (2 -> 4) move dec (total moved 4) invert size dec (4 -> 2) invert move dec (moved total 6 if ** is not present, if ** present 5) **invert size dec (if present triggers at same time as above invert size dec command, making it go from 2 -> 1 BEFORE executing the invert move dec command) with the ** command it ends on 1, but i only get 5 moves when i need 6 - without the ** command i get 6 moves but it ends on 2 when i need 1 (and throws out the whole dynamic/relative thing im now going for) i've basically come to the same problem as before, but i dont have another invert type command to allow a 3rd 'point in time' to assist with commands being separated. if you have any ideas how to help me get back to 1, i'd love to hear them but i believe i can get the fixed length looper-thing going as is. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 14.05.2011 |
. are you trying to say that because all 3 are executed at the same time, the target beat doesn't have an opportunity to update/change with each execution?
Are they executed at the same time, is it only one who is taken into account, I don't know. But Traktor is fine here, you just made an assumption (which would have been correct for some other functions and hardware actually). |
| Anna Jenny 14.05.2011 | thanks for the ideas everyone - will update on my results once i've had a play around hopefully 2 cue/loop move commands on a single keypress will solve the problem. btw my use for this is not just laziness - as you might imagine if i have the keyboard button 3 mapped for 3 beats then 1-8 would be doing something similar so i could rapidly reposition a loop... no way i could do what im imagining with clicks of the mouse and/or manually adjusting jump distances on the fly. i tested the core logic of the looper-thing i'm trying to create working with beatjumps, but beatjumps dont bring a loop with them, which made it useless for what i ultimately wanted to do. hopefully now that i've solved the issue of doing the the 3, 5, 6 and 7 beat jumps in 1 keypress, it should all fall together @yul, i would understand what you're saying about point 1 to 2 three times if i was specifying which beat to move to, but i would have thought a command to move forward 1 beat (without specifying which beat is the ultimate target) would dynamically change the target beat as it is executed multiple times... are you trying to say that because all 3 are executed at the same time, the target beat doesn't have an opportunity to update/change with each execution? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 13.05.2011 | invert works on keyboard, it is a option available on some functions. Or am I mistaken (well, that wouldn't be the 1st time)? Thanks for correcting my sentences Bradcee. I really need to work on my english grammar ^^ |
| Tatum Ansaldo 13.05.2011 | because you're mental? |
| Dorcas Bassignani 13.05.2011 |
Originally Posted by Yul
Have a similar thing for setting 5 beat loops... Why? That would be telling... |
| Kecia Wnukowski 13.05.2011 | Yes I have some stuff mapped like that. Hey! I believe Bradcee just gave you a potential solution!! You'll have also to change the size as he described and add once again the move itself on release. It may work actually. Tell us about your results. |
| Dorcas Bassignani 13.05.2011 | Does invert work in keyboards? Set move 2 and map a move 1 with invert checked. Press > moves 2, release > moves additional 1 |
| Kecia Wnukowski 13.05.2011 |
You need to set the command to direct and the value to 3 beats (if that's possible, i'm not sure).
If not, then I suppose you could call it a limitation but it's not one that's going to affect many people.
And why not just click it 3 times if you really need to move 3 beats? I don't believe I ever have. |
| Tatum Ansaldo 13.05.2011 | You need to set the command to direct and the value to 3 beats (if that's possible, i'm not sure). If not, then I suppose you could call it a limitation but it's not one that's going to affect many people. And why not just click it 3 times if you really need to move 3 beats? I don't believe I ever have. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 13.05.2011 |
so it doesnt make sense why mapping the forward command 3 times wouldnt do the same thing.
There are cases when duplicating a function would have worked, not here. |
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