SOUNCARD Change/ MOD to S4?
SOUNCARD Change/ MOD to S4? Posted on: 21.12.2010 by Maxima Lobeck I love S4, but the sound on my unit, is crap, i send it, but i doubt they gona fix it, when i go to the gigs, i need to give more DBS on the mixer, than others with serato/traktor pro/ vinyls do with others sounds cards.I was believeing about changing the S4 sound card. Did anyone open an S4 and see how it is inside? Was believeing about buying an audio fire 2, open it, and mount inside the S4, but dont know if is posible to remove the one is inside, i know im gona lose some inputs but i dont care, i love this machine but when i plug others external sounds cards, they are hotted, have more dbs, and better sound. What do you believe about it? Thanks. | |
| Maxima Lobeck 23.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by Erick
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| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by knaumov
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| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by haze324
I sent him a PM, because he said exactly what i feel when i plug the S4, not good enought, as audio 2 4 or 8, but the problem is, he said , that can happen using not very good pcs, but ....my computer is a new 13" mac. So that shouldnt happen to me. |
| Madlyn Trocino 28.12.2010 | the Direct box only enhances what ever output is coming from the s4. The Direct box simply gives you more volume and doesnt color the sound what so ever...... So if ya tink AudioFire sounds better (which I would agree with), go with the AudioFire.....You'll have a higher DB Output with the AudioFire anyways.... |
| Maxima Lobeck 25.12.2010 | True, i also saw that, but i feel that there is also a bit of less quality when you do the mix, compared to the others sound cards. Basically, in some tracks, when i put bass on middle, it has a lot of power, and in others tracks, the bass/kick dies. In others sound cards, those tracks, both sound good, its like if my S4, with bass, sounds good, but if the sound only have powerfull kicks, that kick dies, ending in a poor mix when i move from one low to the other low (Sorry if i dont explain it good) I hope to get info in the next days about my S4, and then i will post here again. Anyways, if i end getting one of this, i would get and audi2 dj, or audiofire 2, wich are similar in size and would get rid off my problems. Thanks anyways. |
| Madlyn Trocino 25.12.2010 | What about a 40 dollar line convertor box? It is a super small box thats purpose is to convert a unbalanced signal to a balanced signal. In real world terminoligy, it simply gives you more DBs. I used to use one when I used an audio 4 soundcard cause the mater output was never loud enough. Basically you would connect it from your S4 output, into whatever mixer you where pluging into at the club. I swear by them.... Here a link to the one I have http://www.aiconsol.com/mb15b-rolls.html |
| Maxima Lobeck 23.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by Erick
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| Merilyn Sellards 23.12.2010 | I agree with Victor that usb2 is not the problem, because I've had even more flow of information (ableton+traktor pro) on the same machine/soundcard and not a glitch...on other notes I have 16bit sound card and it makes a hell of a difference, like 10-15% less power, specially noticeable in clubs. Finally to Victor, the headphone amp on mine works super! specially compared to my ADJ4 which I have to crank almost to the max in clubs, sorry man everything to me indicates you have a faulty unit, hey maybe thats a good thing! |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by knaumov
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| Francina Decosse 22.12.2010 | My fingers are crossed that yours was really a Faulty Unit and the one about to come will just work. so good the S4 is ... why would one want to use any other gear when there's S4 out there ... exaggerating, but still close Cheers! |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | Yes, is true , but anyways, the problem is not USB2 on this case, something must be wrong there, or driver, or faulty unit, because others soundcards with USB works great with S4. I crossfinger and hope mine get fixed. Its a shame they didnt use firewire, the scratchamp2, works great at 96 khz 24 bit. |
| Francina Decosse 22.12.2010 | Guys, the setting 24 bit 96 khz is simply too much for the USB2 Bus. With USB's architecture, all the raw Input/Output is handled by the CPU and that's a setting bound to create issues when used with USB2. Understand that you need the CPU to compute your EQs; FX; transport & scratching. You expect that to work in real-time, right. Now add to all this the basic system I/O of the USB bus, which by hardware design has higher precedence than any user process computation (such as the Traktor app). If you don't trust my words on it, do a research, but it is advisable that you'd run Traktor in lower bandwidth consumption settings. Basically the 16bit 44 or 48khz is good enough - about 95% your source files do not have higher resolution either way. It's the high quality of the built-in DACs, which makes the Sound Quality difference after all. The S4 has it, so by setting the 24bit/96k mode you practically don't achieve a lot - you're just adding the overhead of upscaling. Don't get my words wrong - the gear supports the 24bit/96k mode. It's just that the amount of bits to be processed is too damn high to be reliably computed by the Application and then handled by the USB2 bus. If you set the buffers to 250ms and just play an a audio track on it, without doing any real-time sound manipulations (as if on a HiFi CD player), it would play great. But that would simply be a constant flowing strem feeded through the big buffer. That's not what Traktor is for, though . If it was FireWire, it wouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately FW is not as widely accepted (though the macs have it ) , so it's clear why NI didn't make it FW. HTH |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | the headphones is not very good conection in S4, even with internal knob high, doesnt sound very good, i got others sounds cards where headphones is also a 24 bit 96 khz out, here obiousbly it isnt. |
| Janyce Henningson 22.12.2010 | I played out with my S4 on Saturday and the volume was fine but I ran through the house mixer and altered the gain on that. I did have trouble with monitoring though, could hardly hear anything, but that may be my headphones - dunno till I try some others. |
| Merilyn Sellards 22.12.2010 | that's quite weird I also tried at really high volumes at a club and I have a A4dj too and they sound exactly as loud, in fact as loud as cdjs, and in cases of other brand cd players it sounds louder, I'm glad my unit works I guess unfortunately I had software problems crashing 3 times with the sample decks, not even pushing it hard with a brand new mac with nothing but traktor on it, but I guess I need to make a new thread for that XD |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by haze324
I sent him a PM, because he said exactly what i feel when i plug the S4, not good enought, as audio 2 4 or 8, but the problem is, he said , that can happen using not very good pcs, but ....my computer is a new 13" mac. So that shouldnt happen to me. |
| Julissa Serrone 23.12.2010 | I saw Thomas posted in the techinal issues section of the NI community that there are new drivers currently being tested. Could this be a driver issue? Could it be a MAC vs PC issue with drivers working differently on each machine. |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by knaumov
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| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
BTW, i remember opening the midi preferences in MAC and select the traktor S4 sound card, and cant change the volume, and its at minimum, while others soundcards let me change the volume, did anyone check this? Because that maybe is the problem?. |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by VictorM
I never said that and i would never even believe it. If that was my attitude i wouldnt be the sole Moderator in the S4 Forum and spend a lot of my time helping people . |
| Francina Decosse 22.12.2010 | I remember a user was complaining about the S4's sound quality and he also claimed that it's worse then the FS. Seems very similar to me. His issue got solved with a driver update (or a complete system reinstall). Can't remember if it was the NI or this community though. |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | Thats the point, in home, sounds the same, you believe is right, when i go to the club, its incredible diferent to and AUDI8, and i did test , because we are a group of djs, and some have audi4, others audi8, and we all have the same opinion about the sound coming from traktor S4, lack of quality, lack of powerfull sound, etc etc. What i say is, if they give me it repaired, and sound same as others NI sounds card, great, but what you people do if it doesnt? Thats what im asking here. Theres 2 options, sell it, or fix it . If sound card is a separated module inside S4 and can be take out of the chasis, would be easy to do i guess.. i love S4...but im frustrated, i know is hard to believe about others problems, if your unit sounds good, but i sold all my kit, lost 2 weeks of gigs and another coming, in chrismas...wich normally they pay extra most of times...=/ |
| Julissa Serrone 22.12.2010 | Karlos while I agree that busting open an S4 to put in a sound card doesn't make sense -- there's quite a few folks that have brought this up. So you gotta wonder where it comes from??? If in fact it really is just that people don't know how to configure the output of their S4 I believe it would be beneficial for a "How-To" from NI on how to get the best sound from the S4. I would believe NI would want to publish this to have folks using their system at optimal sound and levels. I have an Audio 8, unfortunately I do not have a club system handy to try them both out on -- but am curious. I would also imagine that currently the majority of folks who purchased the S4 are not guys using it in a big club, but rather guys at home or mobile DJ's. I'm sure there are some -- but I doubt it's the majority. Oddly enough the folks that have complained are the ones plugging into major systems. |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | Not make sense, true, if it come repaired, but the problem is there, trust me, i paid 850 |
| Leeanna Ayla 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 22.12.2010 | There is no difference in output volume between the S4 / A2 / A4 / A8. Fact. This is either perceived volume or a faulty unit. I have tested the S4 against all the above mentioned cards and there is not difference because that all pump the same. Most people dont have these cards to compare to and this is just another one of the non-issues that is getting blown out of proportion. If this were true then everyone would be complaining about the quietness of the S4 and the fact is they arent. A few people in a community does not equate to a general problem. The majority of people having output issues simply dont know how to setup the S4 and control the 4 separate output stages in the signal chain before the signal actually leaves the KS4. Breaking the S4 to put an Audio 2 inside makes no sense at all and in fact i highly doubt that it can be done. |
| Julissa Serrone 22.12.2010 | Victor I believe you posted on the NI community
. If someone has good enough speakers at home to try this out: Try plugging the S4 into Traktor Pro and see how it sounds. Try S4 software with Audio 8 and see how it sounds Try S4 as is Compare all three. I'm wondering which one gives the best sound. I'm still not getting why the software would be at -7db? That's quite a bit for room. Enough people have mentioned this to merit that there is some truth to it not being loud enough compared to TSP and Audio 8 sound card. |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
If i do the mod i will take pics . I dont want to loose the "all in one" of the S4, thats the reason i bought it. So if i dont get it sorted, i believe i will try that. |
| Leeanna Ayla 22.12.2010 | Ah okay, hope they get it sorted. I would be curious to know what the S4 looks like on the inside if you decide to take it apart. Make sure to take lots of pictures. If it were me though i would just get an Audio 2 and leave the S4 as it is. |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | Nah, its the other guy, i had it at -4 or -7. It sound not like AUDI, and Final Scratch 2 sound card, kick ass compared to S4. I had it with a good configuration, and i did loads test, and deffo sound card, not have good sound quality, but its only apreciable in a good club, not at home. At home is noticiable but not that much, that why im scared they wont see the problem. |
| Leeanna Ayla 22.12.2010 |
Originally Posted by haze324
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| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | I will see if it comes repaired or not, mine doesnt have enought power, and some tracks wich dont have much bass, doesnt sound good, or powerfull, and with others soundcards does, so i cant go gigs wit that. Maybe got damaged with a faulty ac charger ? I got an email from them saying there is a faulty european ac charger that can cause electro shock or somethig like that and needs to get a new one from them. I will see what i do, but back to the topic, you believe is posible to get inside a small sound card replacing the one it haves? And using just the two outputs the audiofire 2 or others have? Taking a usb/firewire cord from inside to outside wont be hard i guess. If it doesnt come repaired, i might sell it, if they say sounds like that. At home its ok, but is not for gigs, so i know people who would buy it, but the machine is so good that i maybe believe on doing that mod. |
| Julissa Serrone 22.12.2010 | Max, Curious to hear you have it a 0db most users I've seen have to set it lower or will get clipping immediately. Are you using the limiter? |
| Twyla Hilst 22.12.2010 | That's strange, with the same gain as Cdj's and with my master volume at 0 dB I got the same level as Cdjs with my S4... |
| Maxima Lobeck 22.12.2010 | Well, if i need to take out extra usb cord out of it is not much problem, i just want to know if you can take the internal sound card out, or its soldered to the other part of it, and if it will work without it. Ill see what i do when mine comes back from NI. |
| Julissa Serrone 21.12.2010 | I believe the only downside is not having the knob to control your master volume. Also not knowing how it works inside, you may still need to USB cords and for that I would just leave the sound card out. |
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