S4 - juggle mode - video+ tsi files ;)

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S4 - juggle mode - video+ tsi files ;)
Posted on: 07.03.2011 by Kecia Wnukowski
DISCLAIMER: A lot of people asked me about this so I thought I could provide some files to be tried. Those are a test that needs someone else's input. I believe it works but I may have missed things that you may spot and if that's the case and if it can be fixed, cool. Otherwise it won't be that useful as a solution for a juggle mode.
I don't make any promises. Please leave your feedback here if you tried the files if you have time. Thanks.

What is it?
A S4 user custom mapping (ie not midi) that comes in addition to the native one that will allow to call 8 fx presets (4 for group mode, 4 for single mode) and to use the jogwheel(s) as main control over those presets. The jogwheels are set up so when the load button is lit , the corresponding jogwheel when touched and/or turned will activate the Fx(s) and act on some parameters.

Is that a replicate of the fader Fx/jogwheel juggle mode?
No that's not doable in the current states of things. Swallow it and move, stop asking the same question 4 times a week, it's just not possible right now. The only way to do it is to use midi. It's not even possible right now using a full custom user mapping for a very simple reason: unlike Traktor, knobs and faders can't be set as button with the S4 (that would have allowed to use one of those types fo controls to engage on & off an effect; but then that may change with TP2 so wait and see).

What I'm offering here is the best I could find a solution for:
- that most people could use and that could come as close to the original idea even with much more limited controls (only the jogwheel)
- within the limitations given either by the software, hardware and/or the controller manager
- and still using the embedded mapping.

Here's an example I did yesterday using the files (this is not a tutorial, only an example using different features of the S4 and 'my' juggle mode).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFZT5KCNRww
Track:
Soliquid - Tapei Pocock Salata (Quivver remix)
+ samples & FX samples
I've posted below the original track if you want to hear it untouched.
The headphones are a custom painted Seinheiser HD25-1 II.
The orange knobs come from Djs-face, the blue, white & gray knobs are the stock ones that I just painted like the line faders with acrylic paint.


What is the pre-requisite?
It can only work with the following layout:
2 track decks, 2 samples decks, 2 Fx units
It won't work in any other layout, actually you'll mess with critical controls if you try it with another layout or try to change the type of decks while using it All other view options remain unaffected (what you see or don't want to see).
The option for the jogwheel to act on FX can only be activated when on deck layers A or B: like it's normal state the load button has only the load function when on decks C&D, set up as sample decks. That's not something that can be changed or modified.

What are the Fx presets?
Beatmasher/delay/delay ("Beatlay", group preset 1)
Beatmasher/f92lfo/iceverb ("Beatfo", group preset 2)
Beatmasher/digital lofi/reverb ("Beatverb", group preset 3)
Filter/Mulholland drive/Reverb ("Sanchez - the dirty filter", group preset 4)

Gater (single preset 1)
Beatmasher (single preset 2)
Delay (single preset 3)
Delay freeze (single preset 4)


What are the things I need to do to make that work?
- As stated above, the layout must be 2 tracks decks (a&b), 2 sample decks (c&d) and two Fx units.
- be sure to have all the FXs within your effects list inside the software's preferences
- in the S4 preferences, activate the option "FX" for the jogwheels
- in the S4 preferences, define your favorite FXs ("direct FX") as beatmasher, delay, delay in this order.
- be sure you're out of browse mode
- be sure to not have the load buttons lit
- be sure your on deck layers A & B
- in the controller manager, use the ADD button to import the two files.
- go to each file, as it may happen that the effects previewed may change during import (silly isn't it), I've added comments where the lines must be changed to fit the desired effect and to which effect, so change those accordingly on both files.

How does that work then?
*press shift+ twice either 'Fx on', 'Fx button 1', 'Fx button 2' or 'Fx button 3' to call preset1 ,2,3 or 4 respectively. This will call the wanted preset and set the parameters on the Fx unit.
*Assign the fx unit to one or more channels
* press the load button to activate the jogwheel control over the presets.
* touching the jogwhell will activate the fx(s)
* turning the jogwheel will act on the preset
* releasing the jogwheel will tunr off the FX(s) and eventually reset some parameters

How does the jogwheel(s) act on presets?
- Group mode: D/W to 100%, activate the three FXs, act on the 1st Fx's parameter, releasing the jogwheel will set the D/W to 50%
- Single mode: activate the FX, act on the third parameter

If you want the why I choose those Fxs and why the settings are like that, why the jogwheels act on a very specific and rigid manner on the presets, and if you could change some stuff, I'll give some details and reasons below (within the post after this one). If you're not interested in the details, fine, just know that everything has been chosen for a specific reason. The counterpart is that everything is quite rigid, the presets and some Fx settings aren't the 'best' (I should say the ones I like the most) but I had to do it that way for this solution (I mean there are other ways that could allow for more flexibility but it's just not the same to produce, understand and use. What I am offering is A solution, not THE solution).


Is there still an alternative option to search for FXs as you replaced the current ones for calling presets?
Yes
- press shift + (turn) D/W knob when in single mode to search for an advanced version of an effect.
- press shift + (turn) either the knobs 1,2 or 3 to choose an effect for slot 1,2 &3 respectively.
Note: the fx parameter that is linked to the knob will change. Not a big deal if you're currently trying to change the Fx anyway. I could have blocked the movement but it wasn't that much interesting.

Additional note: I've included an LFO reset button when you're in group mode on the 'FX on button' for each FX unit.

Is there any other alteration to the controls from the FX units?
No everything is working as normal apart from the way to call FX presets, how to search for Fx and the LFO reset I added.
Leeanna Ayla
17.11.2011
Locking this thread because it's outdated and Yul has moved on to other mapping projects focusing on the current TP2 software.
Lynetta Stanislav
30.10.2011
Hi download the tsi's and upload to traktor but could only get one tsi to load at a time , also none of the other functions on the s4 worked only the jogwheel and effects had to go through setup wizard to get original functions back
Cheers Neil
Kina Brumage
28.10.2011
I deleted too many of them so I started again from scratch. I've got each side setup so there's 3 jog encoder options, I deleted the rest of them. The top one is set to 140% 0% the next one is different and just has a value of 0.25 or something I just left that one alone, then there's the one on it's own further down the list I set that to 140% 0% and everything seems to be working much better.

I'll be honest I've not really got a clue what I've done. I sort of understand bits of it but your instructions got me through it and everything works plus I've learnt a few new things along the way (well sort of). Thanks for taking the time to explain it all
Kecia Wnukowski
27.10.2011
you can erase the jog wheel encoder functions that control fx settings that are duplicated (keep only one). Change the last one to 140%, 0%.

If you didn't change the fx to the correct ones yu probably have some weird stuff.

I'll post an updated version soon. As for the sweep effect I can include it but then the combo works by moving at the same time 3fxs and the d/w. If you can come with 3 other fx presets that do use the same controls (ie the d/w and the 3 fxs at the same time), no problem. But as I said I need consistency on how the jogwheel will affect functions. Is that a bit clearer?
Kina Brumage
27.10.2011
holy cow i got it to work! the sensitivity was set to 300% but it worked. i re-read through the thread and found that i needed to turn it down in the controller management tab. managed to figure it out ok. at the minute i've got it set at sensitivity 50% acceleration 100% (i cant go above 100% on the acceleration)

it seems to be working ok but do those settings sound about right? i had a quick go and it was fun but hard work to get it to sound good. nowhere near as good as in yul's video (i'd say that was down to me not the software or settings though)

it's hard to explain what i mean by not as good, like if youv'e got a whoooo sound clip and i play with it, sometimes i can get it to sound good like "whhhoo whhh whhh whhh... whoooooooo" then sometimes its all wrong like "whhooo oo oooo hhh w whh whhhoooo"
is that just down to my beatmashing skills? does anyone have any good tips when using it?
Kina Brumage
27.10.2011
I'm going to have a go at this toevening . It will be the first time I've messed with anything properly apart from a few settings in the cog menu. Thanks for the instructions on the original post, I believe I've got my head round what I need to do. Some of it I understood some went wayyyyyy over my head. If I mess things up is it just a case of reinstalling or using the setup wizard to get the original mapping back?
Khadijah Wojtach
26.10.2011
Looking forward to an update The fxs that you've listed on the first post looks good.actually. Maybe include armyofme sweep?
Kecia Wnukowski
26.10.2011
I'd like to post an updated version, but I'd like to know what would be your preferred fx.

Here's the deal:

- playing with the jogwheel would only work on layer A&B, not C&D (mainly because when a deck is a sample deck, the load button doesn't react the same as when in track deck and I can't implement a system that could take that into account (actually I know how independently but that would have a too complex impact on the mapping).
- the mapping prevents you to use the copy mode unless you mess with everything
- only 2 FX units
- I need a consistency for what I want to provide: the jog wheel will control in the same behaviour all group presets on one hand and the single effects on the other hand. What I mean is I can map the jogwheel to control all three fxs of a group preset or only two but that would be the same for all presets.

So I need 3 Fx as presets that would translate as 4 presets of 3 fxs for group mode and 4 advanced FX.

Group FX preset 1: FX1,FX2,FX3
Group FX preset 2: FX4, FX5, FX6
Group FX preset 3: FX7, FX8, FX9
Group FX preset 4: FX10, FX11, FX12

Advanced FX preset 1: FX13
Advanced FX preset 2: FX1
Advanced Fx preset 3: FX14
Advanced Fx preset 4: FX15

Apart from FX1/2/3 that have a defined place, all others can be whatever you want, duplicates, whatever.

Here's what I offer but I can change anything you want
Group
* Beatmasher; Delay T3, ?
* Beatmasher, F92lfo, ?
* Beatmasher, lofi, ?
* Filter, muholland, ?
The jog acting on the first two parameters, not on the 3rd fx. D/W at 100%.

Advanced:
* Gater
* Beatmasher
* Delay T3
* Delay Freeze
the jog acting as its native behaviour on the 3rd parameter


Once I would have done that, I may add, but later, another set of 4 group presets and 4 other advanced fx in addition.


I know some have asked to get this mapping for 4 fx units as that would make sense to go alongside with a midi fighter. However that causes two issues. The IG mapping do use all fx units for one or several channels at the same time, which is not the same as having different fx units dedicated to different channels. Getting those two way of viewing things may cause disruption on both system and it's quite difficult to make them go alongside one another. There's then the issue of implementing a coherent system so you have all the time a correct led feedback, and functions you can trust, to know how to engage fx units to channels (issue coming from the way the s4 and traktor route the fx units and led feedback on the hardware). Now you could map all units on/off to one button (for each channel) but that is not that interesting if you want to use the jogS independently from one another as controls for FX(s) or each one for a different deck.

Hope that makes sense.
Kecia Wnukowski
22.10.2011
Ok ,I've found the time to pull out my s4 and have a quick look around (but still no updated version yet). Before the last Traktor update, one trick I found to be able to map correctly the jog encoder for controlling fx parameters was to multiply several times the same command to get a proper move of the settings. That's not really needed anymore so I suppose that was a bug they fix recently.
If you want to have a look at it by yourself, juts find the jog encoder commands that have an impact of fx settings, usually you'll find several identical, juts erase all but one each time and set the parameters for the encoder to 130 or 140% and 0 for the rotary acceleration.

For the effect selection if that has been disrupted, it comes from the new effects NI introduced. They were so included in the fx list, disrupting the mapping. Juts find the fx select commands and change accordingly to your liking.

Sorry guys I don't have time to do it myself right now, if I find time I'll do it and post an updated version.
Dorotha Ramrattan
20.10.2011
Thanks Colas - that resolved it.
Paul - I set my jog.encoders to be rotary sensitivity to 58% and rotary acceleration to 14%. This should mimic what it was before.
Sharyn Prado
07.10.2011
Yul your help is most appreciated, loved the mapping but the new update ruined it. Looking forward to a.fix.
Kecia Wnukowski
07.10.2011
Hello, I have just moved from an apartment to another and didn't have the time to read the community recently so sorry guys but not for the time being, I really need to unpack a lot of things first. Hell, I didn't even open the latest traktor update and see if there are any new mapping options or twist I could use.

I may have a look later, but don't expect anything before some days/weeks at the very least.
Sharyn Prado
03.10.2011
Any chance of you posting your updated version of the tsi? I tried to change the acceleration to 150% but it reverts to 100% instead :/
Emiko Lucek
29.09.2011
I was having the same problem after the update- particularly with my jogs being SUPER sensitive. All I did was go back into the editor and look for "____ jog encoder" [depending on which half of the controller you're working on]. in the "mapped to" column. The sensitivity is boosted all the way up, and you need to change it to something you like. I believe my settings are something like sensitivity: 50% and acceleration: 150%. You'll need to do this for settings labeled "effect 1 amount" and "effect param 3" for both left (a/c) and right (b/d) parts of the mapping.
Sharyn Prado
26.09.2011
Hi I have the same problem as DJ ST Yul, I just started using your mapping, I've even been contemplating shelving the midi fighter I enjoyed it so much, but the new update has sent everything haywire. Could you look into it for us, I've tried but dont really understand the way you have allocated values to the effects.
Dorotha Ramrattan
24.09.2011
Bonjour Yul - I have been using your mappings for a while and they work great! I've been able to customize it so i have 7 FX presets. However, with 2.1.1 update, it borks up everything with the jog wheel controls (fx preset mappings are okay however). I was wondering if you had a chance to look at what causes this and how to correct this for 2.1.1? Thanks again for your time on this, its been awesome jamming with it!
Ozie Babilonia
27.08.2011
hi noob stooboz here could neone help me out as to wher i put theses tsi files??? im so lost thanks alot to who ever can solve my problem
Ozie Babilonia
27.08.2011
hay yul love your work dude the new golden in the making here iv downloaded ur files but not sure wher they go ect help would b very much apprietiated and can i use these files on tp2? and can they b used on a mac? i am a noob 2 djing sorry
Dewayne Liddicoat
22.04.2011
Originally Posted by Yul
Mmmh, I didn't check but as long as you use it in the layout I specified I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work with TP2. However as stated above I didn't cover the fact that if you hold browse to use the instant copies functions, that will mess the mapping big time. You may need to check the FX selection and fill them accordingly to your own list.
Huge thanks for sharing this! Just a quick question:

Is this preset only for the main mapping? I was inspired by your midi mode post/video, and am trying to draw the tangents. Is this a simliar setup where you need to be in Midi Mode first? If not, is it a stretch to make this a "midi mode" mapping (so I could keep all original settings, and then midi mode would be, say, just for effects and such).

Very much appreciate you taking the time to share all this info with us. Thanks!
Kecia Wnukowski
13.04.2011
Mmmh, I didn't check but as long as you use it in the layout I specified I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work with TP2. However as stated above I didn't cover the fact that if you hold browse to use the instant copies functions, that will mess the mapping big time. You may need to check the FX selection and fill them accordingly to your own list.
Jaleesa Nimrod
12.04.2011
hey mate awesome mapping here was just wondering if this is working with tp2. Thanks!!!
Kecia Wnukowski
11.04.2011
Just found out a case where the mapping would be screwed: I didn't cover the possibility to hold browse mode to make instant copies. Beware.
Mimi Mahaffee
14.03.2011
Nevermind I figured it out.
Should have scrolled down to "select effect" instead of "effect on"
Mimi Mahaffee
14.03.2011
Originally Posted by Yul
Ok, Viceversa is probably right as it's the only reason why that could happen.
So to change the effects how they're supposed to be, you'll have first:

- inside the S4 preferences put your direct FX (favorites) as
* beatmasher
*delay
*delay
- go the first file inside the controller manager (all the lines being quite in order, the following should be easy to do):
* scroll down to the first 3 effect select functions and set them as Beatmasher, f92lfo, iceverb
* scroll down to the next three and change them to
Beatmasher, digital lofi, reverb
*scroll down to the next three and change them to
Filter, muholland drive, reverb
* scroll down and you should find the first effect seelct fucntion for single mode and set it up as a gater
* you're done, repeat that for the second file.

Meanwhile, I'll update the first post, and I'll upload once again the files but this time I'll add notes inside them to where the effects must be changed so that should be easy.

Please accept my apologies for this unexpected issue.


Edit: done, I've uploaded new files with comments inside so that should be easy to change by yourself.
I'm new to traktor and have not done any mapping on my own so I'm not really a guru considering this kinds of changings but this felt like I could work out. However when I'm in the controller manager and scrolled down to the file where it's stated "effect 1 on" I can not find the button to assign other effects to it, where is the "function" button?
Kayhan Polat
11.03.2011
sweet.. will try this out over the weekend!
Andree Ganas
11.03.2011
Thanks Yul, I was having the same issues as viceversa, but that solved it.
Miquel Catan
10.03.2011
Yul is leeeeeegit.
Byron Dipple
10.03.2011
no worries bro glad we solved the mystery! lol thanks again for an awesome map!
Kecia Wnukowski
10.03.2011
Ok, Viceversa is probably right as it's the only reason why that could happen.
So to change the effects how they're supposed to be, you'll have first:

- inside the S4 preferences put your direct FX (favorites) as
* beatmasher
*delay
*delay
- go the first file inside the controller manager (all the lines being quite in order, the following should be easy to do):
* scroll down to the first 3 effect select functions and set them as Beatmasher, f92lfo, iceverb
* scroll down to the next three and change them to
Beatmasher, digital lofi, reverb
*scroll down to the next three and change them to
Filter, muholland drive, reverb
* scroll down and you should find the first effect seelct fucntion for single mode and set it up as a gater
* you're done, repeat that for the second file.

Meanwhile, I'll update the first post, and I'll upload once again the files but this time I'll add notes inside them to where the effects must be changed so that should be easy.

Please accept my apologies for this unexpected issue.


Edit: done, I've uploaded new files with comments inside so that should be easy to change by yourself.
Mimi Mahaffee
10.03.2011
I just tried your files and it works the same way for me as viceversa stated above.
I'm not good at mapping and don't wanna fuck anything up but how did you change the effects in the mapping viceversa?

Other than the thing that wrong effects loaded the script worked brilliant, cool stuff
Great post!

cheers

Martin
Byron Dipple
09.03.2011
how about we compare the order of our effects?

Donovan Mandy
09.03.2011
Originally Posted by Yul
I don't believe as the effect select functions are "named" here, you don't select to a number/value but to a given effect (set/direct/->LFO for example). Same thing when you decide what are your three favorites, they are specified.

Well, it's not because I don't believe it is it may not happen, but that would be very very strange.
Yeah I know but maybe when you're picking the effect select in the controller mapping you're actually picking the number it just doesn't show you that. Only reason I can believe of that this would happen. You could test it by changing the order of your FX around completely then re-importing the mapping.
Kecia Wnukowski
09.03.2011
I don't believe as the effect select functions are "named" here, you don't select to a number/value but to a given effect (set/direct/->LFO for example). Same thing when you decide what are your three favorites, they are specified.

Well, it's not because I don't believe it is it may not happen, but that would be very very strange.
Donovan Mandy
09.03.2011
Could it be the way that direct effects mappings work? Just a guess, say in the FX settings window where you change the order of the FX it's like this

1. Beatmasher
2. Delay
3. LFO
etc

and then the way the mappings work is direct -> set to -> 3 (for example) and on your screen that shows up as LFO, but someone who had their FX in a different order might see it as something different? Just a thought...
Charline Dye
09.03.2011
The LFO is sort of a sweep. For the phaser and flanger the sweep starts at a low pitch goes to a higher pitch then back down, and repeat. If you have the effect on and the sweep is doin it's thing, then hitting the LFO reset will start the sweep over at it's first pitch. Which for phaser flanger is low to high. And for the filter LFOs the pitch starts high and goes low.
Kecia Wnukowski
09.03.2011
I don't believe in mysteries on this area, must be something(??) or a mistake from me. I even downloaded the files I uploaded here and checked, I don't have the issue myself.
Byron Dipple
09.03.2011
then I shall personally chalk this up as a mystery! lol
Kecia Wnukowski
09.03.2011
Nope, if one did what I described (be sure to have all effects within its list of effects, set its favorites to beatmasher, delay & delay), there's no reason I can believe of that could explain a change.
The lines are specified for each effect selection apart from the first group preset (as it is your favorites) and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th effects in single mode (once again for the same reason). So I don't understand why a line saying effect selection f92lfo for example should change by itself to something else.
No I don't have currently any other mapping set up when I worked on the files. The files I provided you with are only mapping tsi files with no other options linked to them.

Then any mistake from my part could happen anyway so...

Or perhaps the effects on the drop down list are in a different order? I'm just throwing out some ideas.
Yes thanks for the help. Once again effect selection lines are set to direct and specified so there's no influence whatsoever with the list of effects itself (assuming you have the effects within your list and apart if you use the trick I gave to change the three favorites fx in single mode).
Byron Dipple
09.03.2011
Yul maybe you have other maps on your setup that could be affecting the way the effects show up for everyone else? Or perhaps the effects on the drop down list are in a different order? I'm just throwing out some ideas.
Donovan Mandy
09.03.2011
Originally Posted by Yul
Hello.
I'm going to upload the files once again, I don't understand. Did you set up your favorites as beatmasher, delay, delay? Did you get the same FX as Viceversa?
Did all effects were within your list within the list used by Traktor?
Well that's a mystery for me. If someone has a clue, please let me know.

Yes you can have a set of FX for each unit of course, personally speaking that's not something I like. I prefer to believe as left hand side for deck A, right handside for deck B. Just note that the preset that is your favorite will probably have/will be included in both.
But do as you see fit, your call, it's just a base so adapt it to what you really like. Use my third post as a rough guideline to set up things.
Not sure if this is related or not, but when I imported my mapping for my MPK mini with effects on the pads (from traktor pro to traktor s4), the effects weren't assigned right. I figured that it might have something to do with the order that the effects were set up in (in the bit where you choose what effects you want) but it wasn't really that much effort to just change the mapping.

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