s2 mixing two songs question.
s2 mixing two songs question. Posted on: 23.01.2012 by Jaleesa Zheng So i recently just bought a s2 & macbook pro, some nice headphones 3 days ago.Been playing around with it i love it, i found two songs both progressive trance songs. I enjoy and start to try and mix them together. It sounds okay, wondering what i need to make it sound excellent. When mixing two songs, you want the same genre correct? Like two progressive trance songs not 1 song Electro house the other trance. I match bpms and select the tracks i like. I Start one track, then find a good spot to bring in the other track. Are you suppose to play both tracks at the same time? It sounds pretty bad when two songs playing at the same time, so i play one song for like 8 minutes then slide the slider to the other track. I'm not sure if thats mixing songs. Not the best transitions like I've heard in person. So i download a accapella and decide to play that ontop of the track thats playing. Not sure if I'm mixing correctly. Any tips help, I've watched youtube videos but they have a lot of extra midi controllers with they're s2. Im just using s2 & downloading songs that are same genre and playing one, then stop it, play the other song. Any guidance helps. Heres my first track, i want it a lot better. I'm not dancing to my song, I'm pretty sure nobody else is either lol. Fascinated by pope:chowmein http://soundcloud.com/pope-chow-mein/fascinated | |
| Chuck Intravia 22.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJAdamDaniel
There is no age to learn anything IMO, but dude seriously I believe you need some personal tutoring. You need to work on your musical instinct. It's not something you should force upon. While writing that big block of mine, I actually had to believe about what I was saying, because to tell you the truth, the music will let you know when something is going to change. Especially in EDM. I'll avoid another big one but I learnt EVERYTHING by using those loop count buttons. Just click 32 or 64 on the first beat, desactivate the loop, then click again on that exact 32th or 64th beat (green arrow on the waveforms in TP2). It sounds kinda mathematic at first, but really you shouldn't worry about that. I know ppl who suck at math and that are much better DJ's than me (although the two are scarily related? :eek: Even more obvious for production...) |
| Rey Holubar 21.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by ExTrCt.
I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, as I believe you should go looking to learn more about music theory first than me try to explain it. There are plenty of free possibilities in the Internet to learn basic music theory. When you've got that under your belt, then you might be able to ask better questions here. scamo |
| Jaleesa Zheng 07.04.2012 | Glad it can help you also All advice is welcome, don't be shy now. |
| Shery Bergson 04.04.2012 | This is my first post on this site, after browsing for a bit I decided I needed to post in this thread because I'm in the same boat, sorta. I'm going to be buying a S2 very soon and have pretty much the same setup, except I do have the speakers. I'm just very amazed at the amount of helpful information the members of this community have given, and advice to how to become better. I know about 70% of the stuff that is mentioned in this thread when it comes to musical terms and knowledge, since I've played music before and knew how to read time and notes, so it does make sense. I've made mixes already before, in ableton and in other DJ software so I can't wait to get my hands on a controller and have more a tactile feel. Thank you for the great advice, and like many of y'all have said only way to get better is through practice, and that should be a given to anything in life :P |
| Jaleesa Zheng 04.04.2012 | Thank you, will keep practicing. I skate also, kick flips and sex change ftw! Can't trey flip though lol. |
| Garfield Scheurich 03.04.2012 | The bottom line is that you just need to put in hours of work on your decks. That is the only way you are going to learn anything, not out of a book or on some message boards. When I was a kid, my dream was to be the best I could possibly be on a skateboard. When I first started skating, my family and friends just laughed and laughed at me as I struggled to do the simplest tasks such as ollie over a 2x4. A few years later after skating everyday, I was 360 flipping over that darn 2x4. The moral of the story is not to give up, no matter how hard it may be. |
| Jaleesa Zheng 02.04.2012 | should i push play on track b, when track A ends? |
| Jaleesa Zheng 26.02.2012 | Will do, gotta clap, gotta tap the feet. Thanks! More practice away.... |
| Chong Prestwich 23.02.2012 | make sure your body is moving to the music too! your head, your foot, whatever. this helps the timing. if your body aint movin you aint gunna enjoy it... |
| Jaleesa Zheng 23.02.2012 | http://soundcloud.com/ewok-productions/tech-house-1 This is a ruff draft of what i created in like 10 minutes of playing around with the tech house 1 & 2 sample songs included with traktor using "beat" and "beats to cue" but i don't have my mixer at the moment. So just all keyboard.... It's a good visual, tells you where the 1 is very helpful in my case. I would accept dj tutoring but don't have any dj friends in the new city i moved too, the guys at guitar center are pretty good at mixing and also do producing they are willing to let me setup gear and teach me. I'll start going in there more often. Timing does sound like a key part of mixing. Working on that more! A lot to learn in so little time... Feels like I'm running out of time! |
| Erica Charvet 22.02.2012 | The most important thing you can understand when it comes to DJ'ing is getting your timing right and understanding music structure. When I started, All I was doing was counting "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8" over and over again in my head until it came naturally. Just introduce new elements at the "1" and you will eventually learn how to recognize the downbeat without even believeing about it. After you have that down, you can start getting creative. |
| Chuck Intravia 22.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJAdamDaniel
There is no age to learn anything IMO, but dude seriously I believe you need some personal tutoring. You need to work on your musical instinct. It's not something you should force upon. While writing that big block of mine, I actually had to believe about what I was saying, because to tell you the truth, the music will let you know when something is going to change. Especially in EDM. I'll avoid another big one but I learnt EVERYTHING by using those loop count buttons. Just click 32 or 64 on the first beat, desactivate the loop, then click again on that exact 32th or 64th beat (green arrow on the waveforms in TP2). It sounds kinda mathematic at first, but really you shouldn't worry about that. I know ppl who suck at math and that are much better DJ's than me (although the two are scarily related? :eek: Even more obvious for production...) |
| Georgianna Eurick 22.02.2012 | There comes a time you won't even have to count the bars. You just have to practice and know your songs well. I've bought my s4 last year when I was 22. Everyone sucks when they first start. It's the passion that drives you |
| Jaleesa Zheng 22.02.2012 | Thank you, i will try that out. Trying to make a solid transition with the songs i like or even with the sample songs that are included. Thanks for the tip. Ive been just counting 1234 through out the entire song try to start the other track on the 1. Not sure if you get what i mean... just trying to have some good music coming out of my bedroom. I should have bought dj gear at the age of 12 instead of the age of 20.. I bought a lot of video games as a hobby but now I'm bored of video games.. This feels like this is harder to learn then i thought. Owel feels good to learn something new. |
| Joselyn Supina 20.02.2012 | This might be helpful at teaching you counting... Within Traktor, go to Settings...and then either under Decks or Deck Layout, you should see the Deck Heading option, you can change these to whatever might be helpful. The "Beats" option as well the "beats to Cue" might be handy for you. "Beats" counts from the beginning of the song, and "Beats To Cue" counts down to the end. The last number counts the beats in a bar, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. The middle number counts bars (goes to 8) 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 all the way to 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4 (where 8.4 = 32 beats) The first number is what set of bars you're on....1.1.1, 1.1.2, 1.1.3, 1.1.4, 1.2.1.....1.8.3, 1.8.4, 2.1.1, 2.1.2...2.8.3, 2.8.4. If you can multiply, you should be able to figure out where you are in a track. Of course, actually learning to count the beats will help any dj, but having a visual cue to go along with the audio cue really seems to help when you're starting out. Listen to a track over and over, count it out while you watch the numbers...listen for the change in the track from 8.4 to 1.1, that'll be when the music track adds an instrument or takes one away to change the energy. About 95% of EDM is going to have a 32 beat intro and a 32 beat outro. If you drop your next track perfectly on its 1 beat of the 32 beat intro, when the track your playing is hitting the 1 beat of the 32 beat outro, the two will almost always blend perfectly. |
| Rey Holubar 21.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by ExTrCt.
I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, as I believe you should go looking to learn more about music theory first than me try to explain it. There are plenty of free possibilities in the Internet to learn basic music theory. When you've got that under your belt, then you might be able to ask better questions here. scamo |
| Chong Prestwich 20.02.2012 | youtube, seriously... |
| Jaleesa Zheng 20.02.2012 | Yeah I've been believeing 1234 2234 3234 4234 = 1 bar. Oops! So when he means "REMEMBER TO ONLY START THE TRACK on the FIRST BEAT. Let the mix sit: after 64 counts, you'll get DJing." I just hit play at the beginning of track in this case tech house 2 count 1234 = first beat.. Then make a cue there. Let the mix sit after 64 counts. Means let the song play for 64 counts of 1234? Counts/bar/beat = same thing? So count 1234, 16 times. (16 x 4 = 64 ) then start other track? Ive never touched a cymbal. Thats a drum piece i just googled it. Sounds like i need some basic music classes. But don't have the cash for it lol. Thats why I've been bugging djranking s with lots of questions. |
| Latoria Kavulich 20.02.2012 | start mixing on a cymbal. |
| Rey Holubar 20.02.2012 | http://www.howmusicworks.org/504/Met...sure-Divisions 1234 is a bar. 1234 2234 3234 4234 Is counting 4 bars. You shouldn't need to really count bars to do a transition, but you should know how long a piece of a song runs like 4, 8, 16 bars etc. so you know how long the transition can last without it sounding like crap, because say the vocals come in over vocals in the running track. Mixing vocals over vocals is very hard to get right. There are also a ton of tutorials here on DJTT and all over the Internet about transitions. Basically, for a transition, you should just understand where you are in a song and in many cases you need to start your second song on the one beat (thus why you must understand bars) to make the transition right. scamo |
| Jaleesa Zheng 19.02.2012 | Alright good advice, ill keep trying. Hopefully practice makes perfect in this case lol. Don't know the basics of music theory. But ill try to teach my self with the internet and youtube. So 1234 2234 3234 4234 = 1 bar? So i count 1234 2234 3234 4234 i get to 1 get to 1 bar. (1st bar of song). So i have techhouse 1 loaded. And techhouse 2 loaded. I have a cue point at the the 3 minute marker for tech house 1. Its a pretty increased energy like you say. I count 1234 2234 3234 4234 about 2 & a half times until something new changes like a baseline or snare on tech house 2 song. Wondering if that is the correct spot to start at. Or should i just count 1234 2234 3234 4234 one time and start tech house 2 at the 1 bar spot? When you say the 1 beat that's the same as 1 bar correct? And by let the mix set for 64 counts. Should i start the tech house 2 at count 64? Or let it play for 64 counts? This is what i have been reading about song structure. intro (8-16 bars)- Usually a simple beat that makes your track easy to mix Bassdrop (32 bars) - Like it sounds, this is where the Bass comes in. The intro gives the DJ time to transistion from one Bassline to the next. Breakdown/build up (4-8 bars) - This is usually where the kick drum is removed and a key melody or emotional aspect is introduced. Meat of the song (32-64 bars) - This is where the song really comes together and sets the tone. this should make you move but not yet give you everything Breakdown/build up 2 (4-8 bars) - similar to the first breakdown but may feature elements that make it even more intense. Peak (32-64 bars) - this is the moment everyone lets loose and the track gives you everything it |
| Chuck Intravia 13.02.2012 | Wow I admire the perseverance here, but seriously you need to get the whole beats thingy. If this is presenting too much of an obstacle at first, maybe you shouldn't consider DJing as a hobby, even less as a profession. Nonetheless with practice comes perfect so you will never know if you don't try! It's simple. it works the same for a Goa track (Goa Trance just has a crazy BPM like 150 most of the time). But first try with with minimal house; the tech house tracks included in the software are the best for learning! (TechHouse 1 & 2 by LoopMasters). Load up your track.. you're probably gonna have a simple intro. Basically, every 32 beats you're gonna have a change in the track that's gonna INCREASE the energy: hats, synth, pad etc... you name it. Now, I say 32, but it could be 16, 32, or 64 beats. The point is they're multiple of 4, and that's why you count 1,2,3,4 on each beat. In order to mix your second track in, you want to start it on a 1 and make sure they're synced. I'm sure you've tried every other beat and you know that just doesn't work. You should activate the Snap and Quantize functions of Traktor. Look it up. Now if you take that techhouse 1 track, and want to mix that techhouse 2, you need to work on your EQ, a huge part of Djing. This is what will assist you when instruments clash (e.g. when you have too much hi's, low's, or mid's when two tracks play at the same time). The secret (one of them) is to mix in when instruments "leave" the mixing-out track because the track is DECREASING in energy. Counting beats and track waveforms are both good indicators for knowing when stuff ducks out or comes in. On the techhouse 1 track, a good mix-in point is the 3rd minute marker (second last), at the end of the measure (e.g. when you feel the music is reaching to a new part) is your mix'in point. You should store a cue on that precise beat so you can try again and again. Although the energy INCREASES at this point because of an added instrument (a snary hat), you can start your second track now, because the INCREASE in energy for the 2nd track will come AFTER the DECREASE in energy from the first track. If you have trouble finding the cue I'm talking about, it's exactly 32 counts after the second build-up. If you have no idea of what I'm talking about, then you need to consult a few other community s. My patience stops here Cut your bass and hi's from the techhouse 2 before you play it, just sync for now, and let the mix play. REMEMBER TO ONLY START THE TRACK on the FIRST BEAT. Let the mix sit: after 64 counts, you'll get DJing. Don't forget to switch bass lines at the most appropriate moment. Now I can't dictate that. You have to find for yourself, you're the DJ! Those are the bases, from there on you should understand the rest of the process and how music blends in general. If not, then I'm sorry dude, this is the wrong hobby. Happy DJing! |
| Jaleesa Zheng 04.02.2012 | Thanks i found the tick button on traktor. Now i need to be able to find the 1 beat like you say. Then i might be able to do a transition correctly. All i want is a good transition. I don't remember getting anything productive done in middle school. You were forced to do either quire or band. I did quire and band. But after that year went to a new school where you weren't made to do any of it. So i quit playing trumpet and lost all my knowledge in that department. |
| Rey Holubar 04.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by ExTrCt.
The bars are counted that way, because in dance music you have 4 beats to a bar. You must have learned that while learning to play the trumpet. And no, you don't have to count in your head. What you need to remember is that each bar in dance music has 4 beats (4 quarter notes), which are also represented by the beat grid lines in Traktor (each line is a quarter note). You also need to be able to tell where the one beat (1st note in a bar) is in the music. scamo |
| Jaleesa Zheng 04.02.2012 | lol yes |
| Lashay Walchak 04.02.2012 | weirdo |
| Jaleesa Zheng 04.02.2012 | Where is this metronome located? I can't find in settings.... Oh the tick button. Alright i was looking for the word metronome. They call it tick on traktor, hopefully this button helps me. I don't have any cash for piano lessons just spent all my cash on my laptop and mixer. Piano lessons do sound pretty fun though. I played the trumpet in middle school. But didn't continue it. Why are the bars counted that way, thats confusing lol. So i count the whole track in my head in that order?? |
| Chong Prestwich 04.02.2012 | turn the metronome on in traktor, that will count out a 1234 for you |
| Rey Holubar 04.02.2012 | Hehehe... It goes... 1234 2234 3234 4234 and that is simply how you count the bars. I'd say, knowing the basics in music theory is definitely an advantage for a DJ. You might want to pick up some books or take a few piano lessons (the better alternative). You'll learn a lot and then music "things" just seem to make more sense to you. I learned the basic music "stuff" as a kid, having to learn the piano (3 years of lessons) and playing saxophone also 3 years in junior high. Unfortunately, I can't play either well any more, but I still remember a lot of the basics about music. I thank my Mom for forcing the lessons on me way back when. scamo |
| Jaleesa Zheng 03.02.2012 |
Originally Posted by DJAdamDaniel
People say 1234 4324 or something I'm like what?? why not 1234 1234? They say don't work that way. And 16 bar phrases and 32 bar phrases for certain songs or vocals really confusing to me at the moment. When my tax returns come in the mail. I'll be back in action. Just been busy with school and family. Kinda hectic for me to watch videos then practice for 4 hours a day, then go study for a test. ahhh! But i do love music and already miss turning nobs. edit: went to go get gear back. I guess native instruments is having a special so instead of paying 495.99 I only paid 399.99 So that was cool. |
| Ranae Selck 03.02.2012 | Sure mixing in key makes a difference, with some tracks. If you are mixing 2 drummy techno tracks with no melody, then it doesn't matter if you are in key or not. But if you are pulling off 2-3 minute Digweed mixes with tracks that both have melodies, it's going to sound terrible if they are in clashing keys. To me, using keys is not the bible, it's just another tool to use. I don't let it dictate what track I play next, it just helps. |
| Joselyn Supina 03.02.2012 | I'm with ya...I still go by ear, even if a chart says two songs should go together, sometimes, they just don't sound right. I guess I use it more for guidance when working with new songs. |
| Chong Prestwich 03.02.2012 | yeah loopong a track you're about to mix in is useful. would concentrate on the counting before looking at keys. in fact i'm still personally yet to be convinced using keys makes much of a difference! |
| Joselyn Supina 02.02.2012 | I have rhythm but can't sing, haha. And I love music, so I have two things go for me. Honestly, when I started out, I was a mess - wait for one song to almost end, slide the crossfader over and hope the trainwreck wasn't too bad. Then I learned if I hit the sync button and loop the incoming track I could at least somewhat mesh the songs together. I felt like I was cheating though, so I started working on beat matching, which I can do, but not very quickly, but I'm getting better. I also started learning about keys and mixing using the circle of fifths. Now I'm trying to focus on my counting. I'm getting there, though I believe I will always have more to learn. |
| Chong Prestwich 02.02.2012 | there's no cheat as such in counting beats n bars, if you can clap/dance in time you should be able to pick it up eventually. once you can recognise a downbeat you're halfway there i reckon. unfortunately some people will never get it, even with a cheat/sync button (not to mention being able to beatmatch but unable to read a crowd/pick tunes!). I teach DJing at the local Uni here and there are a few who will never learn DJing simply because they dont have any sort of natural timing ability. Sad but true hopefully the guy that has quit here wasnt in that category and will have another go one day, if you are genuinely into the music you'll not be able to resist! i started DJing in 1998, had a break of about 7/8 years and have only recently got back into it - the music will always be in you |
| Jaleesa Zheng 01.02.2012 | Im 20 but having no luck finding jobs. Im currently living with mom, and haven't finished school. A lot on my mind. Already bored though, i loved putting up songs every day on sound cloud felt apart of the dj community lol. You are a excellent guy and I enjoy your music a lot. Keep up the great work! The indie house you play is soothing for my ears! Trying to sell stuff i don't use like my plasma tv and xbox. Then i can have an actual desk for the traktor s2. So far it was just sitting on my bed. |
| Joselyn Supina 01.02.2012 | I didn't start until I was 31...you can always come back to it later after the job and school and life starts to slow down again. Your post was helpful...I picked up a lot from it as I'm only 5 months out of the gate. Now I need to read the manual again and see if I can find the cheat. I'll still practice but it'll be helpful when I recording a set and completely lose track due to too much tequila. |
| Jaleesa Zheng 01.02.2012 | Well thanks for all the help. I gave up on my dream on trying to be a bedroom dj, i returned my traktor s2 & xone headphones and am stuck with a macbook pro forever since i can't return that because I've played with it and installed traktor pro 2 lol. For some pocket change. With no job i was going insane in my head and not knowing how to use the gear correctly and spending every last penny on trying to have a good memory with music. I don't believe i would have learned what i needed to to learn to throw house partys for friends. Props to you guys! You have a lot of motivation to keep learning. I just couldn't take it anymore. The time sitting in my room not knowing how to use it, when i could be applying for burger king or finding a job somewhere to help around the house, i guess ill just focus on school for now. I will no longer be on djtech.com asking noob questions on how to use the gear, thanks for all the guidance. I appreciate it. Nice transition mix, digging it Left you a comment mate! Goodjob on it!!! |
| Nedra Fresneda 01.02.2012 | It has, but I'd recommend you to keep practicing instead of taking the shortcut. |
| Joselyn Supina 01.02.2012 | I believe my biggest problem at the moment is keeping up with my counting and knowing where I'm at. Some days I wish Traktor had a cheat that told you what bar you were on. |
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