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Macbook Air + VCI-100 + Traktor 1.2... WTF?

Home :: Reviews of DJ equipment :: Macbook Air + VCI-100 + Traktor 1.2... WTF?Reply

Macbook Air + VCI-100 + Traktor 1.2... WTF? Posted on: 04.12.2009 by Princess Creaven Okej guys, I have always been using my VCI-100 with my stationary C2D Windows 7 PC with a Creative X-Fi via ASIO (I know, lousy card for music production... but it's sufficient for my needs). I get down to 5-7ms at the least, before it starts to crack and pop. No big deal... I've always been using my MacBook Air for school work and love it for it's mobility, just for kicks I bought and installed a copy of Traktor on OSX. Hooked up my VCI to the Air and what the fuck?! With the stock, built in soundcard running on CoreAudio i get down to 1ms,totally outperforming the ASIO X-Fi with keylock enabled on four decks with no sweat... How the fuck can this be?? We are talking about a first geneeration 1.6ghz Macbook Air with integrated audio utterly wasting a high end PC. I know Core Audio is working at lowest level, but so is ASIO to?
Princess Creaven 09.12.2009	Originally Posted by n2hf1st Coreaudio drivers are just that flipping amazing when it comes to latency. Obviously the audioquality is going to be on the low end, because it's just internal audio after all, but macs were built with certain things in mind. The fact that you can't go as low with your pc is probably just because your card isn't the best. Also, usb cards can't get as low as firewire cards can without starting to break up. Yeah, starting to understand the beaty of Core Audio/Midi http://developer.apple.com/audio/overview.html http://developer.apple.com/mac/libra...03577-CH4-SW11 Would the Audio 2 be worse than the internal, in the case of latency. Because it uses the USB interface?
Ok Moroski 07.12.2009	Originally Posted by MixiM As far as ASIO adding latency that doesn't seem right, the reason for ASIO in the first place was for the sound to bypass several abstraction layers in the soundstack of the operating system in order to improve latency performance. As you all know, ever since the Intel migration Macs have pretty much shared components with other mid- to high-end stationary PC's and Laptops. In the case of the soundcard, at least my Macbook Air uses the Realtek ALC885, that is also used by many other PC counterparts... It would be interesting to se what kind of latencies people with this chip have under Windows. I believe that it is the design of the audio stack in OSX, Core Audio that makes my crappy integrated soundcard whoop the latancy ass of my a tad less crappy X-Fi. Thoughts? As for ASIO adding latency - I'm talking specifically about displayed latency in Traktor; I couldn't tell you one way or another about actual latency. Certainly the difference in audio processing with the Mac could be a large part of the difference here, but you should realize as well that you're not comparing two setups that are very similar. When you're talking about latency in ms, you can't be all that comfortable pointing to one aspect of your setup over another when there are so many variables in there. It is a good question though - can anyone else shed some light on this?
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by keeb My guess: The soundcard that's integrated in the mobo doesn't have to pass through the PCI-bus and ASIO process and therefore is faster. I'm pretty sure ASIO adds latency (I know that using it with my firebox does). I also have a desktop with an x-fi in it and my latency with that card was pretty shit. I'd be much quicker to blame the card. Also, consider that while it is the "stock audio" for a mac, that doesn't equate it to the "stock audio" for a pc. Macs tend to have much better components at the low end. It's customization where they epic fail (and lack of USB ports...). As far as ASIO adding latency that doesn't seem right, the reason for ASIO in the first place was for the sound to bypass several abstraction layers in the soundstack of the operating system in order to improve latency performance. As you all know, ever since the Intel migration Macs have pretty much shared components with other mid- to high-end stationary PC's and Laptops. In the case of the soundcard, at least my Macbook Air uses the Realtek ALC885, that is also used by many other PC counterparts... It would be interesting to se what kind of latencies people with this chip have under Windows. I believe that it is the design of the audio stack in OSX, Core Audio that makes my crappy integrated soundcard whoop the latancy ass of my a tad less crappy X-Fi. Thoughts?
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by jinx ..and also manufactured in china Haha yep =)
Thomas Fone 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by Wave C\|2usher I am willing to bet that 99% of consumers would agree that you get exactly what you pay for, and your macbook air is a prime example, portability, light weight, reliable and effecient. ..and also manufactured in china
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by Wave C\|2usher The way that osx is designed along with the fact that the internal componants are of higher quality should not come as a large suprise that your macbook air is out performing your made in china store bought laptop. I am willing to bet that 99% of consumers would agree that you get exactly what you pay for, and your macbook air is a prime example, portability, light weight, reliable and effecient. Yeah but the problem... or weird thing is that, i'm comparing it to my clean installed stationary custom built PC, with all relatively higher grade components. The Macbook Air on the other hand has a pretty lousy internal components yet still is able to outperform my PC in latency performance... I believe it's all due to the audio stack (Core Audio) in OSX... but Win Vista and 7 had totally rebuilt audiostacks to counter this problem... yet it appears to not have been enough. Most of the Mac vs PC talk is smack and fanboy talk (and I own both), but this caught me off guard.
Princess Creaven 04.12.2009	Originally Posted by sm00sh Traktor 1.2 on my blackbook ran surprisingly well, I never really new latency was a problem. However I will say that when you connect the audio 2 to a powerful system the difference in dynamic range is noticeable. Yeah, have no doubt in that. But it is sufficient for my bedroom and dorm party needs =) Only missing a preview jack then... Still can't figure out where this performance comes from...
Vernon Vanderberg 04.12.2009	Originally Posted by MixiM Why would I even bother with buying an aditional Audio 2? Simply for aditional preview-jacks and better soundquality...? Or is it something i'm missing. you pretty much answered your own question. Traktor 1.2 on my blackbook ran surprisingly well, I never really new latency was a problem. However I will say that when you connect the audio 2 to a powerful system the difference in dynamic range is noticeable.
Princess Creaven 04.12.2009	Okej guys, I have always been using my VCI-100 with my stationary C2D Windows 7 PC with a Creative X-Fi via ASIO (I know, lousy card for music production... but it's sufficient for my needs). I get down to 5-7ms at the least, before it starts to crack and pop. No big deal... I've always been using my MacBook Air for school work and love it for it's mobility, just for kicks I bought and installed a copy of Traktor on OSX. Hooked up my VCI to the Air and what the fuck?! With the stock, built in soundcard running on CoreAudio i get down to 1ms,totally outperforming the ASIO X-Fi with keylock enabled on four decks with no sweat... How the fuck can this be?? We are talking about a first geneeration 1.6ghz Macbook Air with integrated audio utterly wasting a high end PC. I know Core Audio is working at lowest level, but so is ASIO to?
Princess Creaven 09.12.2009	Originally Posted by n2hf1st Coreaudio drivers are just that flipping amazing when it comes to latency. Obviously the audioquality is going to be on the low end, because it's just internal audio after all, but macs were built with certain things in mind. The fact that you can't go as low with your pc is probably just because your card isn't the best. Also, usb cards can't get as low as firewire cards can without starting to break up. Yeah, starting to understand the beaty of Core Audio/Midi http://developer.apple.com/audio/overview.html http://developer.apple.com/mac/libra...03577-CH4-SW11 Would the Audio 2 be worse than the internal, in the case of latency. Because it uses the USB interface?
Many Atia 09.12.2009	Coreaudio drivers are just that flipping amazing when it comes to latency. Obviously the audioquality is going to be on the low end, because it's just internal audio after all, but macs were built with certain things in mind. The fact that you can't go as low with your pc is probably just because your card isn't the best. Also, usb cards can't get as low as firewire cards can without starting to break up.
Princess Creaven 09.12.2009	Quite OT my bro, but what the hell. For studies I would not chose anything other than my Air.. nothing beats the portability.. And the screen glares much less to! For DJ'ing though... I wouldn't even believe twice over chosing the Pro. Performance is adequate on the Air, but even soley on factors like two usb connections and a firewireport (important features for a digital DJ) its a win. With the air you would have to make use and carry around a powered usb-hub (like I do)... Even though the air is very sturdy, the aluminium is thin in it's places and is a lot more sensitive to denting... Factoring in a lower price and better performance just makes the choice even easier...
Forest Buonanno 09.12.2009	I have a question(nice thread btw). I'm about to buy a laptop for my vci-100 SE that I ordered from here and was wondering out of the mac selection where to go. I like how the mac air looks, and it looks like a steady piece, but would anyone suggest that? I know you could get a better deal with the macbook pro and that it has more stuff you can put in it, but I'll only be using this laptop for DJing. What do you believe? Mac Air or Pro and why? I would assume the duo core 2 processors would be enough to run it.
Ok Moroski 07.12.2009	Originally Posted by MixiM As far as ASIO adding latency that doesn't seem right, the reason for ASIO in the first place was for the sound to bypass several abstraction layers in the soundstack of the operating system in order to improve latency performance. As you all know, ever since the Intel migration Macs have pretty much shared components with other mid- to high-end stationary PC's and Laptops. In the case of the soundcard, at least my Macbook Air uses the Realtek ALC885, that is also used by many other PC counterparts... It would be interesting to se what kind of latencies people with this chip have under Windows. I believe that it is the design of the audio stack in OSX, Core Audio that makes my crappy integrated soundcard whoop the latancy ass of my a tad less crappy X-Fi. Thoughts? As for ASIO adding latency - I'm talking specifically about displayed latency in Traktor; I couldn't tell you one way or another about actual latency. Certainly the difference in audio processing with the Mac could be a large part of the difference here, but you should realize as well that you're not comparing two setups that are very similar. When you're talking about latency in ms, you can't be all that comfortable pointing to one aspect of your setup over another when there are so many variables in there. It is a good question though - can anyone else shed some light on this?
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by keeb My guess: The soundcard that's integrated in the mobo doesn't have to pass through the PCI-bus and ASIO process and therefore is faster. I'm pretty sure ASIO adds latency (I know that using it with my firebox does). I also have a desktop with an x-fi in it and my latency with that card was pretty shit. I'd be much quicker to blame the card. Also, consider that while it is the "stock audio" for a mac, that doesn't equate it to the "stock audio" for a pc. Macs tend to have much better components at the low end. It's customization where they epic fail (and lack of USB ports...). As far as ASIO adding latency that doesn't seem right, the reason for ASIO in the first place was for the sound to bypass several abstraction layers in the soundstack of the operating system in order to improve latency performance. As you all know, ever since the Intel migration Macs have pretty much shared components with other mid- to high-end stationary PC's and Laptops. In the case of the soundcard, at least my Macbook Air uses the Realtek ALC885, that is also used by many other PC counterparts... It would be interesting to se what kind of latencies people with this chip have under Windows. I believe that it is the design of the audio stack in OSX, Core Audio that makes my crappy integrated soundcard whoop the latancy ass of my a tad less crappy X-Fi. Thoughts?
Ok Moroski 06.12.2009	My guess: The soundcard that's integrated in the mobo doesn't have to pass through the PCI-bus and ASIO process and therefore is faster. I'm pretty sure ASIO adds latency (I know that using it with my firebox does). I also have a desktop with an x-fi in it and my latency with that card was pretty shit. I'd be much quicker to blame the card. Also, consider that while it is the "stock audio" for a mac, that doesn't equate it to the "stock audio" for a pc. Macs tend to have much better components at the low end. It's customization where they epic fail (and lack of USB ports...).
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by jinx ..and also manufactured in china Haha yep =)
Thomas Fone 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by Wave C\|2usher I am willing to bet that 99% of consumers would agree that you get exactly what you pay for, and your macbook air is a prime example, portability, light weight, reliable and effecient. ..and also manufactured in china
Princess Creaven 06.12.2009	Originally Posted by Wave C\|2usher The way that osx is designed along with the fact that the internal componants are of higher quality should not come as a large suprise that your macbook air is out performing your made in china store bought laptop. I am willing to bet that 99% of consumers would agree that you get exactly what you pay for, and your macbook air is a prime example, portability, light weight, reliable and effecient. Yeah but the problem... or weird thing is that, i'm comparing it to my clean installed stationary custom built PC, with all relatively higher grade components. The Macbook Air on the other hand has a pretty lousy internal components yet still is able to outperform my PC in latency performance... I believe it's all due to the audio stack (Core Audio) in OSX... but Win Vista and 7 had totally rebuilt audiostacks to counter this problem... yet it appears to not have been enough. Most of the Mac vs PC talk is smack and fanboy talk (and I own both), but this caught me off guard.
Dena Khoshnaw 07.12.2009	The mac vs PC is a big debate and Id rather not get into it. Although I will say that windows is a fairly bulky OS and windows developers are paid per line of code, hence if you want to get paid you make the OS way more complicated than it has to be. OSX is a fairly streamline, OSx and can run on 867mhz and 256mb of ram. I use Torq,virtual DJ , Reflex all on a 1.5ghz powerbook G4 and I never have any issues. The way that osx is designed along with the fact that the internal componants are of higher quality should not come as a large suprise that your macbook air is out performing your made in china store bought laptop. I am willing to bet that 99% of consumers would agree that you get exactly what you pay for, and your macbook air is a prime example, portability, light weight, reliable and effecient.
Princess Creaven 04.12.2009	Originally Posted by sm00sh Traktor 1.2 on my blackbook ran surprisingly well, I never really new latency was a problem. However I will say that when you connect the audio 2 to a powerful system the difference in dynamic range is noticeable. Yeah, have no doubt in that. But it is sufficient for my bedroom and dorm party needs =) Only missing a preview jack then... Still can't figure out where this performance comes from...
Vernon Vanderberg 04.12.2009	Originally Posted by MixiM Why would I even bother with buying an aditional Audio 2? Simply for aditional preview-jacks and better soundquality...? Or is it something i'm missing. you pretty much answered your own question. Traktor 1.2 on my blackbook ran surprisingly well, I never really new latency was a problem. However I will say that when you connect the audio 2 to a powerful system the difference in dynamic range is noticeable.

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Macbook Air + VCI-100 + Traktor 1.2... WTF?