APC40 What's the verdict?
APC40 What's the verdict? Posted on: 19.12.2009 by Branden Wentler Most of the threads I found did not have much in the way of definitive answers as to whether or not it plays well with TP. What's important for me ATM is that the LEDs work properly and are configurable (as in colors).Anyone in here using one for TP and what is your opinion of its operability. I'm looking at getting Live eventually so certainly go to go there but in the meantime... Appreciate any feedback and or heads up to obstacles or pitfalls using the APC40 with TP Cheers, Danny | |
| juan garcia 20.12.2009 |
Originally Posted by space monkey
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| Branden Wentler 19.12.2009 | Most of the threads I found did not have much in the way of definitive answers as to whether or not it plays well with TP. What's important for me ATM is that the LEDs work properly and are configurable (as in colors). Anyone in here using one for TP and what is your opinion of its operability. I'm looking at getting Live eventually so certainly go to go there but in the meantime... Appreciate any feedback and or heads up to obstacles or pitfalls using the APC40 with TP Cheers, Danny |
| Joella Roelfs 10.03.2010 | I'm an owner of an launchpad and recently discovered a similair problem, everytime I press one of the hotcue buttons with storage the LED goes off. There's a thread over at the midikatapult community with detailed explanation. It would be awesome if you could help me. |
| Branden Wentler 29.12.2009 | Set mine up like this: In>Loop Set>(Note) Assignment= Per Deck Type=Button Mode=Trigger Invert checked Out>Loop Set>(Note) Assignment=per deck CR 1 1 MR 3 3 I had it set up for blinking while in loop but that started to annoy me and was inconsistent. Also have a modifier where Shift+Note toggles Loop Active however this will turn off the LED unitl pressed again. Hope this helps Danny |
| Dalton Billson 28.12.2009 | Just got an apc40. This is my first controller and i did alot of research before buying it. I'm using it for both ableton and traktor. Im loving it so far. Got just about everything mapped how I want it. Zac Kyoti post was real helpful with the leds. I just cont figure out how to map the leds for loop set. I want it to work like the play/pause. Thanks |
| Roselle Mcnaul 27.12.2009 | The Akai product rep said it had something to do with the MIDI data being sent back to the controller to instruct the LED's to behave certain ways (i.e: LED knob ring values, the pad section which lights different colors, etc). I guess that in culmination with the normal MIDI data being sent to Ableton causes considerable latencies when moving multiple faders, which in all fairness, I didn't foresee myself running into often, but it happened enough times where it became an issue. Still a good unit regardless, if they fix the issue somehow then I will rebuy it without much hesitation. That fader lag thing really busted my balls though lol. Anyhow, I didn't save the email but if you shoot their tech support one, they will explain the dynamics of the issue better than I can. |
| Reece Murray 27.12.2009 | Don't see why led outputs should introduce any more latency to your setup. Using a MIDI monitor doesn't show any info being sent continuously with PFL output, so I have no idea how it works exactly, I used the default values Traktor imposes when adding the command. I have my play buttons feedback always via the PFL command, no invert on the actual input command. Some of my other buttons change state via inverted "send monitor state" commands, color just dependent on what modifiers are used. I've seen the fader lag thing, but only using three or more faders at once. Don't do this often, so it's really not an issue for me. Interesting to note though. |
| Roselle Mcnaul 26.12.2009 | Its alright, I sold mine due to excessive fader lag. Emailed Akai about it, they confirmed it was an issue they could not fix, and was inherent to the APC-40 due to the data throughout for signals, and LED light feedback. |
| Branden Wentler 26.12.2009 | Thanks Zac That is pretty much what I figured out with the exception of a send monitor state and thus had 2 out commands for Play/Pause states. The one thing I need to get used to is the CUP-like behavior of the APC40 buttons as a result of having to tick "Invert" option in the input command for Play/Pause. Otherwise LEDs do not toggle correctly regardless of what I do. Also I cannot use PFL (or any other monitor out) for a constantly lit LED. If I set up more than 4 I start getting pops in my audio. Increasing audio latency to 7.5ms helped to some degree but I suspect this is an internal USB controller issue with my laptop. Maybe i'm missing something here? All-in-all i'm very please with the APC. The feel of the controls are right where I like to be. The only real niggling issue other than monitor LEDs is the behavior of Device On/Off and Send A buttons which I use for FX reset. I may get around to fixing that but it's really not that important. Cheers, Danny EDIR: Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I have 8 faders free for automated FX. This is going to be fun! |
| Reece Murray 26.12.2009 | Hey man, gonna cut and paste something I wrote in a PM to another dj with the same problem. Adapt it to your taste: This is very simplified, I'm not sure how complex your mapping is, so this can affect different things but a little trial and error can sort it all out. With the most basic setup being one button that toggles play/pause, the way to get the led to remain in the state you want is this: Make a play/pause output command that has the midi range as min=1 and max=2, same note # as the button, then click invert. Make sure these are set to the deck that's using them. Add a "send monitor state" input command (under "Global") also with the same note # and invert that as well. (The inversion means that the controller will update the led as you release the button rather than when you push it - the reason why it doesn't stay on normally is because the button is momentary, and it sends a note off message when released. The send monitor state command gets the led info from the software, rather than the controller). That should work. The tricky thing about using this command is that it is global, so any led that has an output assigned to it will change to reflect what state the software believes it's in. You can refine the led behavior further by using modifiers, if you want. A little known trick, but VERY handy. Now, another killer thing I want to share is this: You might want other leds to stay on all the time, regardless of whether you pushed a button or not. This way you can color-code functions and always have a visual indicator of where on the matrix things are (no more accidental fucking up in a dark environment). Use the "monitor deck PFL left/right" output command (under "Output"), and set it to the deck that uses that button. Set the note # of that button/led. What happens here is that there's ALWAYS info coming from PFL (pre-fader listen), and so the led will be on no matter what you do. This command can also be tweaked using modifiers or variations on what midi range you set it to. These two commands should sort things nicely for you. Word of warning - the led rings are trickier. I don't use any output commands on these because there is a conflict about where the APC believes they are versus where Traktor believes they are. Instead, I use the banks (Track Selection 1-8 and Master) for led rings that change a lot, coupled with "send monitor state" inverted on a global shift button. This works smooth because the APC has it's own banks that it remembers. If you find yourself wanting to mess around with this stuff, drop me a line and I'll toss some ideas your way. I can't live without good led feedback |
| Branden Wentler 26.12.2009 | Hey thanks to all you offering to help me along! Here is my progress: I've been tooling around on the 40 for a few days and have it pretty much set up. My only issue is finding a way to keep certain LEDs lit all the time--hot cue LEDs that is. Play and Loop LEDs are easy but it's the hot cues i'm having trouble with. Also is there a way to get the unit's LEDs to initialize once TP launches? I'm staring at a blank bank of buttons that don't light up until I either load a track or press them. Otherwise happy happy! Oh yeah, I must say the rotaries on this thing are smooth as silk! Hmm, maybe a little too smooth as I should tweak the acceleration on my FX D/W. I came from using a 4D and sometimes the pots just felt a little gritty in certain spots. Cheers and Merry Christmas! Danny |
| juan garcia 20.12.2009 |
Originally Posted by space monkey
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| Reece Murray 20.12.2009 | The Live version with the APC is capable, but it does have limitations on # of tracks, # of vst's you can use etc. It also limits your audio ins and outs, so running individual channels from Traktor thru a virtual routing app is a no-go. I believe you can still get a midi clock sync though... I buckled and bought the full version, but it's sooo worth it. Maybe use the APC version for a while to get the hang of things, then believe about the full. Also a personal observation - I know tradition of syncing midi clocks is to adjust the midi input latency while listening to both applications' ticks (metronome). I've actually found I get a tighter sync by listening to Traktor's tick against a drum loop in Live. Just a thought. |
| Branden Wentler 20.12.2009 | "+ If you ever get into running Ableton in conjunction with Traktor, you can do a ton of killer things with the audio from Traktor. I can offer some tips with that too. I use it for further processing and fx, firing clips, etc. Sounds great" Exactly what I want to do. Is the version of Live that comes with the APC robust enough to run FX and clips or should I start believeing about upgrading to the full version? cheers, Danny |
| Reece Murray 19.12.2009 | Hmm, there is a free runtime version, as far as I know, but since you can't save it's not much use for the APC. Hit me back when you start mapping the APC, you'll run into some issues with leds staying on when you hit buttons, but programming Traktor's "send modifier state" and a few other helpful commands right can set things straight. It's best if you get everything functional set how and where you want it first, then we can deal with the leds. + If you ever get into running Ableton in conjunction with Traktor, you can do a ton of killer things with the audio from Traktor. I can offer some tips with that too. I use it for further processing and fx, firing clips, etc. Sounds great. |
| Branden Wentler 19.12.2009 | Hey thanks for replying. I just purchased and it should ship next week. I have a pending sale of my Xone:4D and will use this in conjunction with a Xone:92 so this should free up the faders. What kind of "tricks" do you mean for getting the LEDs working? Also do you use the free version of Bomes? Since this is my only midi device do I even need Bomes? thanks Danny EDIT: Must have misread....there is no free version of Bome's |
| Reece Murray 19.12.2009 | I use it with Traktor. Love it. Getting the leds to behave in Traktor is tricky, but once you learn the tricks, it's a great piece of kit to custom program. Get Bome's too and nothing gets in your way. For reference I use it in conjunction with the VCI, but the mapping is stand alone as well. For someone for whom led feedback is critical, the APC is really nice, with all the colors and surfaces... |
| Branden Wentler 19.12.2009 | WooT! Love finding answers: From Ableton Forums: this is what I found on another community : The APC40's LEDs can be controlled super-easy by Traktor. Its just a matter of outputting either value 1,2,3,4,5,6 to change the LEDs from green/blinking green/amber/blinking amber/red/blinking red (I don't know if that is the respective order at the moment). I've almost finished setting mine up completely, but I'm using it in conjuction with a VCI-100. Pretty much, each deck is given two columns of the APC. On the button matrix, one column selects hotcues 1,2,3,4 and then toggles Play/Pause. The second column selects hotcues 5,6,7,8 and then toggles Loop Active. The first two columns are always lit green, the second two are always lit red, the third two always green, and the fourth two always red to help me distinguish which deck I'm messing with (and when staring at all the buttons at once, it could get pretty disorienting without some sort of distinction). I also set up the Play/Pause and Loop Active buttons to blink when I'm reaching the end of a song so that I can quickly be alerted to activate looping and select hotcue 8 (which I always have mapped out as a quality loop near the end of a song) in case I needed more time. Haven't done much with the Clip Stop row for now. I always leave the Scene Select row on Master to keep the rotaries and buttons on the same channel, but I may need to alter that once TPro 1.2 comes out and I need more control over fx banks. The small buttons are used to activate fx slots for each deck (I'm placeholding 4 for when TPro 1.2 comes out), which leaves you with two buttons left for something like key lock and sync. One of the faders is used for panning (really nice to have access to) and I haven't assigned the other one yet, but I'm believeing of using it for the key knob on the GUI. The Scene Launch column hasn't been taken advantage of much. I use the LEDs to show master output level and clipping making for a fun visual VU. The Cue Level and Master fader are used to change BPM and Tempo Mode respectively. Knobs and buttons on right side of controller are basically used for fx control and some MOD commands. Maybe that gives you some ideas for your mapping. Last edited by misa : 07-17-2009 at 12:14 PM. |
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