1 of my studio monitors is only playing half as loud as the other...
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1 of my studio monitors is only playing half as loud as the other... Posted on: 25.02.2013 by Temple Cervelli mixer-pionner-djm-500-r.jpgI have a pair of KRK Rokit 8s, and i used to connect them bot via XLR to XLR, from my monitors to the XLR slots in my pioneer DJM 500 mixer. i've recently moved my set up about and now require longer cables, I had one 4metre female xlr to TRS cable, im using that for one monitor (male xlr from master (XLR outputs) output TWO of my mixer to TRS into my monitor)and i brought a 6metre Van Damme Male XLR to TRS cable and use that for my other monitor (male XLR from monitor to the master (TRS outputs) output THREE of ym mixer, and this is the monitor that is only playing half as loud, it is >really< noticeable. I brought a new male xlr to trs cable for the quiet monitor and tried it out toevening and no luck, still quiet. I have tried switching monitors about, switching the cables around etc, still the one that is going from the TRS mixer master outputs, is the quiet one. Could this be a problem with the way i have connected one of my monitors up to my mixer? Both my monitors are not being connected to the same 'master output' of my mixer, because i have a female AND a male XLR to TRS cable, would this cause this problem? Should i send both male XLR cables back and get the same female XLR to TRS cable as the one used for my working monitor? Both worked fine when I had XLR to XLR... Attached image of mixer rear, so you can see the master outs. Ta | |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Shall I just buy the two from the links u posted dude? 6m is too long for both monitors, but heck there not too expensive, i have found some 5m ones, but there 9quid each... so i may just deal with having a bit of loose lead hanging about, its going to be behind/under desks anyway tho so not much bother... I would just like 4m versions of the ones you posted but there just nowhere to be seen :s |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by lingk
@mdcdesign - woah, lol, okay then.. I didn't even know that existed, what on earth is TS then, why not just TRS? ufff I need to learn more about this! It's weird though, becasue i have a really cheap behringer uca222 interface, that only has RCA ins and outs, i have my monitors connected from RCA to RCA, just when im playing tracks from youtube itunes etc, and logic... and the volume is fine then, booming infact, but it does sound slighty muffly where its just ONE phono lead split to go into two monitors :/ Is it just literally the TRS/TS connection that is lower? cheers |
Doreen Schurle 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
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Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Steve Zorilow
I will re-post here when I get and test the new XLRs! |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Ah right okay, yeah I have a lot of extension leads and that in the studio so probably get some interference there. Yeah, round about 3m is the right length from my mixer over to my monitors, one of them is further away than the other, because the way it's laid out, but 3m will be enough for both! Yeah it's always worth having a bit extra to okay with lol, ah right good idea, it'll be nice to have em different colours to identify quicker. nice one fella. Thanks for helping. P.S. I just can not find any 3m ones lol? There all flipping 1.5m or 6m+ .. Eh. @makar1 - Yes! That is what I am going to do now lol, just straight xlr-xlr, having different ends and that just got confusing! Meh, nice one cheers for helping. @Frank112916 - Yeah, I didn't mean to get the cables all mixed up I just didn't have any idea about male and female, and trs xlr etc, my bad! But sorted now going to stick with xlr to xlr! |
Alphonso Deitchman 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
Originally Posted by Superfreak
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Doreen Schurle 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
The difference between a 4ft (1.5m) cable and a 6m cable isn't that big tbh, although for neatness you'd probably be better off getting 3m cables or something. 3m is a good size for club use as well, as you're never sure just how far away from the soundboard the booth is going to be, but it's probably not going to be 100m, and it's likely to be more than 1m lol. The reason I linked to two separate cables is one's red (right-hand channel/speaker) and one's black (left-hand channel/speaker). It's always best to colour-code stuff if you can I've got a fair few of the audiospares cables, and some kenable ones, and they're all pretty much the same... never had any issues with any of them |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
The point is moot anyways considering the solution in either case is to buy a new cable. I'm done with this. |
Alphonso Deitchman 27.02.2013 | The speakers were switched and have been shown not to be the issue. The TS Master Out of the DJM500 is unbalanced and puts out a weaker signal than the XLR Master Out. |
Mariko Oppenhuizen 27.02.2013 | So this is a dumb question and could have been answered already and should have been your first trouble shooting step. But, did you unplug the loud speaker from your mixer(leaving the cable installed into the mixer) and connecting the low speaker to the XLR cable in the mixer and see if it's at normal volume. Sounds like it's just the loudness difference between the XLR and TRS outputs on the mixer |
Alphonso Deitchman 27.02.2013 | Just go for the 6m cables, you may need the extra at some point and it can be easily hidden/tied away. These are the different jack plugs you'll see: http://img.tfd.com/cde/TRRS.GIF TS is Mono, TRS is either Stereo or Balanced Mono. |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Shall I just buy the two from the links u posted dude? 6m is too long for both monitors, but heck there not too expensive, i have found some 5m ones, but there 9quid each... so i may just deal with having a bit of loose lead hanging about, its going to be behind/under desks anyway tho so not much bother... I would just like 4m versions of the ones you posted but there just nowhere to be seen :s |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by lingk
@mdcdesign - woah, lol, okay then.. I didn't even know that existed, what on earth is TS then, why not just TRS? ufff I need to learn more about this! It's weird though, becasue i have a really cheap behringer uca222 interface, that only has RCA ins and outs, i have my monitors connected from RCA to RCA, just when im playing tracks from youtube itunes etc, and logic... and the volume is fine then, booming infact, but it does sound slighty muffly where its just ONE phono lead split to go into two monitors :/ Is it just literally the TRS/TS connection that is lower? cheers |
Doreen Schurle 27.02.2013 | A difference of 3dB is a halving/doubling of the overall volume, and one side is half as loud as the other... there we go :P |
Mariko Oppenhuizen 27.02.2013 | I know it has RCA outs for the booth, but did you try adjusting the booth volume anyways? check to see if you changed something on the xfader settings? Also from looking at the manual for the mixer, the XLR outputs are at 4DB, where the TRS are at 0DB. So you would have a bit of a difference there, but not to the point you couldn't hear anything out of one side. |
Doreen Schurle 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
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Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Steve Zorilow
I will re-post here when I get and test the new XLRs! |
Lisa Lochotzki 27.02.2013 | a 6db drop could also be a simple cold joint or broken PCB track, broken pin between the connector and the PCB itself, faulty capacitor at the input of your monitor. Lot of possibilities, none are really expensive to fix. |
Temple Cervelli 27.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Ah right okay, yeah I have a lot of extension leads and that in the studio so probably get some interference there. Yeah, round about 3m is the right length from my mixer over to my monitors, one of them is further away than the other, because the way it's laid out, but 3m will be enough for both! Yeah it's always worth having a bit extra to okay with lol, ah right good idea, it'll be nice to have em different colours to identify quicker. nice one fella. Thanks for helping. P.S. I just can not find any 3m ones lol? There all flipping 1.5m or 6m+ .. Eh. @makar1 - Yes! That is what I am going to do now lol, just straight xlr-xlr, having different ends and that just got confusing! Meh, nice one cheers for helping. @Frank112916 - Yeah, I didn't mean to get the cables all mixed up I just didn't have any idea about male and female, and trs xlr etc, my bad! But sorted now going to stick with xlr to xlr! |
Dino Hapgood 26.02.2013 | I have the rockit RP8G2s. I don't see why you wouldn't use XLR to XLR if you have the option... |
Alphonso Deitchman 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
Originally Posted by Superfreak
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Doreen Schurle 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
The difference between a 4ft (1.5m) cable and a 6m cable isn't that big tbh, although for neatness you'd probably be better off getting 3m cables or something. 3m is a good size for club use as well, as you're never sure just how far away from the soundboard the booth is going to be, but it's probably not going to be 100m, and it's likely to be more than 1m lol. The reason I linked to two separate cables is one's red (right-hand channel/speaker) and one's black (left-hand channel/speaker). It's always best to colour-code stuff if you can I've got a fair few of the audiospares cables, and some kenable ones, and they're all pretty much the same... never had any issues with any of them |
Temple Cervelli 26.02.2013 | I'm not clued up on this at all as much as you guys are :-( balanced and unbalanced etc, I just know that the cable that's run from the TRS master out of my mixer into the XLR of my monitor, is the one that makes my monitor quiet. I didn't mean to have to different cables i didn't know about make & female when I got them, but I do now! I'm going to get another female XLR to TRS I believe, that's what the good speaker is using atm.. @mdcdesign - ah, the first link, the red 'audiospares' xlr to xlr cable is the first cable I ever brought for my monitors, one of them busted randomly and just started making fuzzy crackling noises and over-ran any music coming out :/ plus I couldn't find a longer one, Now I've moved my monitors around I need the cables to be 4ft each, Does it matter if I buy like 5/6metre cables? Like us it bad to have the cable longer then needed? It's just because I can't ever find the right size, only ever like 1metre or 6metre... I need pretty much exactly 4foot long cables. Also, how comes you posted two links/two cables, why not just by a pair of the first ones or a pair of the second ones? (Not being rude btw just wondering why u posted two different cables). And should I stick to XLR to TRS or just use XLR to XLR? Thank you! |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 | Yay party time! |
Doreen Schurle 26.02.2013 | Easy solution: Buy 1x http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-3-Pi...item2c6c271086 and 1x http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-Bala...item56534099d8 Problem solved! |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
The point is moot anyways considering the solution in either case is to buy a new cable. I'm done with this. |
Doreen Schurle 26.02.2013 | MASTER OUT 2 (XLR) ................. 4 dBm (1.23 V) / 600 W MASTER OUT 3 (1/4"PHONE) ............. 0 dBV (1 V) / 1 kW Derpmuch? They're not balanced TRS's, they're unbalanced TS monos; you can even see the mono plugs visible in the wiring diagrams in the manual. Practically half the impedence on the balanced XLRs == higher volume. Connecting one speaker to XLRs and the other to jacks is just plain stupid... it's not like you're connecting two pairs of speakers; why not just connect both speakers to either the XLRs or the Jacks? :-\ Also, for signal cabling, there's literally no difference between a |
Alphonso Deitchman 26.02.2013 | The quiet speaker is always the one connected to the TRS output of the mixer. The TRS output has electrical specs of 1V/1kΩ, identical to the RCA outputs. The XLR output has electrical specs of 1.23V/600Ω. The TRS to XLR cable connects a (presumably) unbalanced source to a balanced input. Ideally an unbalanced signal should be connected to the RCA unbalanced input of the Rokits. Connecting an unbalanced signal to a balanced input only gives it half the potential difference as there's no cold input so could easily explain the volume loss. What exactly can be wrong with a cable that causes a decrease in volume? |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 | You're missing the point: he's not saying that speaker is a little bit quieter, he said he cranked it and it was still quieter than the other at half volume. I have a pair of 8s, that is not how they should be working and that is not how they sound on unbalanced output. The balancing is not the issue. |
Alphonso Deitchman 26.02.2013 | Do you have any proof that the TRS sockets of the DJM 500 are balanced? They could easily be unbalanced mono TS. Especially since the TRS outputs are at the same voltage/impedance as the RCA outputs - if they were balanced they should be electrically identical to the XLR outs. I wasn't suggesting that unbalanced and balanced signals are inherently different volume, just that connections between balanced and unbalanced inputs+outputs can cause a drop in gain, as balanced connections carry two signals whereas unbalanced carry one. |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 | Ummm.... no. TRS is balanced, and once again even if it wasn't you would not be seeing that kind of volume difference. If that was the case they wouldn't put an unbalanced jack on the monitors. It is probably still the cable, but it has nothing to do with it being balanced or unbalanced. |
Temple Cervelli 26.02.2013 | Right, just had a final test, the GOOD monitor cable makes the QUIET monitor play nice and loud, so, it has got to be what @makar1 has said, and is something to do with TRS being unbalanced. So, as @makar1 said again, i should just stick with either 2 XLRs or 2 TRS, my choice being XLR because the volume issue. I never knkew TRS was unbalanced, i thought it was just the RCA i/o that was unbalanced. Thanks for your help, going to send off for a new cable, the right one this time... Ugh lol. Thanks guys! |
Alphonso Deitchman 26.02.2013 | Having had a look at the manual for the DJM 500 it looks like the TRS Master Out has an identical level to the RCA output. XLR = 1.23V, TRS/RCA = 1V Connecting unbalanced outputs to balanced inputs may give you a reduction in volume also, but I can't tell from the specs whether the TRS output is balanced or unbalanced. Identical specs to the RCA would suggest the latter. |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
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Alphonso Deitchman 27.02.2013 | I would never expect two separate outputs to be the same volume. Either use 2x XLR outputs, or 2x TRS outputs. |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 | Yeah I mean bottom line is that as long as you can still get volume out of the speaker with some configuration you're in pretty good shape. Fixing output issues on the mixer is just a game of find the out of place component. |
Temple Cervelli 26.02.2013 | Comes to believe of it, I brought. Brand new van Damme cable. The monitor was quiet with it, so I brought another Adam hall cable, same style, still quiet,.. So I'm believeing it just might be the TRS master outputs of my mixer that are dodgey. Will do a check toevening ! Hope for the best! |
Stan Brevil 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Superfreak
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Temple Cervelli 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJZILCH
Cheers will check that toevening also! |
Temple Cervelli 26.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by tgcasals
Right, I have actually already tried all of that, I posted it in the first post. The thing is, I'm using two different cables, 1 is male XLR to TRS and the other is female XLR to TRS. It goes like this. Monitor 1 (good) - Female XLR to TRS: TRS from Monitor INTO the Mixers 'Right' XLR 'Master Output 2' slots. Monitor 2 (quiet) - Male XLR to TRS: XLR from monitor INTO the Mixers 'Left' TRS 'Master Output 3' slots. I haave ended up with a male and female xlr cable, which means I can't connected BOTH of my monitors to the XLR Master Outputs of my mixer because only 1 cable end will fit in. Same with plugging both monitors into the TRS master outputs 3, because my monitors XLR input is female so can only plug a make xlr cable end into it. I've used the cable which connects the GOOD monitor, to connect the bad monitor and the sound is fine! I'm sure I've used the suspicious cable on the good monitor and I'm sure it made the good monitor quiet too. I'm gojng to just double check I used the bad cable on the good monitor. When I get home form work I will update! My suspicions are on the xlrtrs cable connecting the bad monitor to my mixer, either that or the TRS master outs of my mixer are broke, which isn't a big deal because I can just use the XLR master output so that's okay. Thank you for your input I will update you toevening when ran a final test on the bad cable. |
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