It's official, the iPad is worth it.

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It's official, the iPad is worth it.
Posted on: 15.06.2010 by Lucien Casados
If Richie Hawtin uses the iPad, it must be good enough for professional use.

Not exactly "DJing" with the iPad, but check this out!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqzQcNVT_h4
Herschel January
22.06.2010
Originally Posted by JamesT
thats the first thing I noticed! Cannot believe he is using something Behringer, not that I am a hater, just seems weird that he isn't using something 'better' or rather made a better version himself...
on his web site (plastikman) there is another video of him explaining his setup with a more detailed view of Griid, and he also states the the Behringer is because of the motorized faders. He also adds a french accent to Lemur, which I believe is kind of commical, but they are made in france, so maybe I'm the r-tard here.
Irving Odabashian
22.06.2010
Originally Posted by Patch
2 iPads, 2 Lemurs... And a BCF2000???
thats the first thing I noticed! Cannot believe he is using something Behringer, not that I am a hater, just seems weird that he isn't using something 'better' or rather made a better version himself...
Herschel January
20.06.2010
Originally Posted by analogdog
I've always wished for VR gloves and a holographic display... that would perk my ears up!
Something like this, 6:00 is where it gets interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6YTQ...layer_embedded

20.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
It's not like everything in the future will be touchscreens and no tactile controls.
definitely not. no matter how advanced touchscreens may become, you just can't replace the feeling of twisting a real four-dimensional knob. on the other hand, some applications allow you to do stuff you couldn't possibly do with regular controls. I believe a combination of both physical and virtual elements is the future...

...at least until we have working (and affordable) neural interfaces that you can wear without looking like a rastafari terminator
Herschel January
19.06.2010		From CDM

Details remain murky
Venice Yoeun
19.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
First, the benefit of touch controllers is that they are dynamically re-configurable - hardware isn't. They can respond to MIDI feedback, so all of your controls are always in the correct place and you never have those dead movements caused by soft takeover logic. That also means that you can always look at your controller and see what your values are WITHOUT staring at the application.

Second, showmanship absolutely plays a part in performance. DJs have been criticized for being detached from the audience. This is usually fine in a residency, because there are many reasons why people are in your club. But in a one off or feature performance, the audience paid money and came to see a specific artist. It's a bit boring to then just see some guy standing there. Feature artists are starting to understand this, and showmanship is starting to play a bigger role.

Also, don't underestimate the value in being able to take your controller with you and walk around the venue. Any DJ worth their salt knows what the venue sounds like, and does the occasional walk-around to verify that their audio is in good shape. The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing.
I get your point... and I like it... don't get me wrong, it has a use. I would definitely have backups to respond if the iPad failed during a performance... it is new, and apples are not infallible. I just prefer the Lemur if I were to depend on a touch screen during a live performance. Most tweaking I do on actual kit.... not soft synths. I have some cervical spine issues so customizing my live setup so my hands know them perfectly and keeping my screens at higher elevations is much more comfortable for me. Hunching over for long periods of time over 25 years of turntables, plus the evil ergonomics of laptops has not helped my neck out at all.

"The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing."

I totally agree there... that's assuming the dumbass sound guy doesn't fiddle with live PA after a previous 6 hours of opening acts.... then the high frequency ear fatigue has set in and he pushes the treble to 11 and it sounds like a Bose system. They never can keep their hands off... especially once you start your set.

I have managed to preserve my hearing and rely on Shure SE530 in ears for my own monitors to keep damage to a minimum. I realize my sound coming out of an Allen and Heath differs from the live PA, but I really don't want to be exposed to loud crunching PA at this point in my life. Plus I tend to have a lot going on and it's easier to concentrate and isolate frequencies, especially if the Sherman Filterbank is in use. I just hope the sound guy doesn't start his own tweaking (make friends, hand him a beer, and ask him not to touch it).

As far as showmanship... it's mainly us tekkies talking about the kit... the average kid on E is more interested in the light show than the guy on stage, and usually doesn't really get what we are doing or appreciate how hard it is. Face it... we all look the same up there ... except for the occasional foam mask, gas mask, or scantily clad dancers. It is unfortunate.

The right light show will trump anything we do on stage (still has to sound good) IMO.

Not saying I won't use my iPad for a gig, but I sure as hell won't be using it flat on a table at my waistline ... uggh, the pain. JMHO.

To each his own......
Andy Essenpreis
18.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
First, the benefit of touch controllers is that they are dynamically re-configurable - hardware isn't. They can respond to MIDI feedback, so all of your controls are always in the correct place and you never have those dead movements caused by soft takeover logic. That also means that you can always look at your controller and see what your values are WITHOUT staring at the application.

Second, showmanship absolutely plays a part in performance. DJs have been criticized for being detached from the audience. This is usually fine in a residency, because there are many reasons why people are in your club. But in a one off or feature performance, the audience paid money and came to see a specific artist. It's a bit boring to then just see some guy standing there. Feature artists are starting to understand this, and showmanship is starting to play a bigger role.

Also, don't underestimate the value in being able to take your controller with you and walk around the venue. Any DJ worth their salt knows what the venue sounds like, and does the occasional walk-around to verify that their audio is in good shape. The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing.

+1
Lilliana Perris
22.06.2010		Yeah...i noticed that he pronounces things with the accent they are from.

HEHEHEHEHE.
Herschel January
22.06.2010
Originally Posted by JamesT
thats the first thing I noticed! Cannot believe he is using something Behringer, not that I am a hater, just seems weird that he isn't using something 'better' or rather made a better version himself...
on his web site (plastikman) there is another video of him explaining his setup with a more detailed view of Griid, and he also states the the Behringer is because of the motorized faders. He also adds a french accent to Lemur, which I believe is kind of commical, but they are made in france, so maybe I'm the r-tard here.
Irving Odabashian
22.06.2010
Originally Posted by Patch
2 iPads, 2 Lemurs... And a BCF2000???
thats the first thing I noticed! Cannot believe he is using something Behringer, not that I am a hater, just seems weird that he isn't using something 'better' or rather made a better version himself...
Herschel January
21.06.2010		Also, just another tidbit. One of the main gripes from the Lemur users over on their community s has been the lack of hardwire ability of the iPad. Well, considering that you can tether over the hardwire USB connection or Bluetooth to an iPhone, the possibility is there, just not the functionality yet.

from an article about iOS 4, which will be coming to the iPad in the fall.
Tethering
You can now tether your phone to your computer over USB or Bluetooth. But how? The first step is turning on tethering on your account, which you can do by going to att.com/mywireless and enrolling in the tethering plan. It's an extra $20 a month, and you get to share whatever data plan you have on your phone with your computer.
Herschel January
20.06.2010
Originally Posted by analogdog
I've always wished for VR gloves and a holographic display... that would perk my ears up!
Something like this, 6:00 is where it gets interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6YTQ...layer_embedded

20.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
It's not like everything in the future will be touchscreens and no tactile controls.
definitely not. no matter how advanced touchscreens may become, you just can't replace the feeling of twisting a real four-dimensional knob. on the other hand, some applications allow you to do stuff you couldn't possibly do with regular controls. I believe a combination of both physical and virtual elements is the future...

...at least until we have working (and affordable) neural interfaces that you can wear without looking like a rastafari terminator
Diogo Dj Dragão
20.06.2010
No denying, though - touch screen controllers (with muti-page software) is DEFINITELY the way forward.
I would say they are A way forward. It's not like everything in the future will be touchscreens and no tactile controls. But there is definitely room in DJing for touchscreens, and they will become more and more necessary as control modality increases and more features get added to devices. I believe it's also obvious that a large number of DJs have a specific idea about what they want control over, and not everyone is going to agree. Having the capability to create custom controllers to suit specific needs is an attractive proposition.
Venice Yoeun
20.06.2010		I've always wished for VR gloves and a holographic display... that would perk my ears up!

I need the tactile feel as my right hand often goes completely numb and the light touch of a screen is not as useful.

I'm going to set mine up today with a fader kit and see how it feels, but my symptoms change daily.

For certain gigs it has definite advantages as size and weight of luggage is a major obstacle. I go minimal for international unless they pick up the tab on rack mount cases. 2 ipads, launchpad, se100, and mac with audiofire 2, pth530's, and cables all fit in my carry on gig bag as I will never check that in international luggage, always carry it on. I'm heading to New Zealand for winterfest next week and last year my super industrial Samsonite hard shell luggage was shattered at the corners... I believe they personally dropped it from 100 feet.

I'm not too pleased with the glare that comes off the iPad though. That table top glass on it can blind you.

Samsung is releasing a full system tablet (Galaxy Tab) later this year with tactile screen and full cable hookups and memory upgrades... that my be the ticket.

Check this... plus you can cable connect, and it works as a phone... might be interesting.

http://techfreqnews.com/2010/06/17/s...-as-an-iphone/
Brunilda Kora
20.06.2010		This tactile feedback thing is WAY over rated! I don't really see the need for touch screen knobs - but touch screen faders are gonna be awesome... Pages and pages and pages of touch screen faders. <<<DROOL>>>
Matthew Urtel
19.06.2010		Wireless touchscreens are the future. They were never "made" for DJing.

Wireless POS and Inventorying are simply invaluable.
Breana Singerman
19.06.2010		I'm all for advancing forward and pushing the technology, my only issue with touch screens is the lack of tactile feed back from actually touching a knob/slider/button. Personal preference though and all that.
Brunilda Kora
19.06.2010		No denying, though - touch screen controllers (with muti-page software) is DEFINITELY the way forward. Wish I had the money and time to invest in some.
Brunilda Kora
19.06.2010		2 iPads, 2 Lemurs... And a BCF2000???
Herschel January
19.06.2010		From CDM

Details remain murky
Venice Yoeun
19.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
First, the benefit of touch controllers is that they are dynamically re-configurable - hardware isn't. They can respond to MIDI feedback, so all of your controls are always in the correct place and you never have those dead movements caused by soft takeover logic. That also means that you can always look at your controller and see what your values are WITHOUT staring at the application.

Second, showmanship absolutely plays a part in performance. DJs have been criticized for being detached from the audience. This is usually fine in a residency, because there are many reasons why people are in your club. But in a one off or feature performance, the audience paid money and came to see a specific artist. It's a bit boring to then just see some guy standing there. Feature artists are starting to understand this, and showmanship is starting to play a bigger role.

Also, don't underestimate the value in being able to take your controller with you and walk around the venue. Any DJ worth their salt knows what the venue sounds like, and does the occasional walk-around to verify that their audio is in good shape. The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing.
I get your point... and I like it... don't get me wrong, it has a use. I would definitely have backups to respond if the iPad failed during a performance... it is new, and apples are not infallible. I just prefer the Lemur if I were to depend on a touch screen during a live performance. Most tweaking I do on actual kit.... not soft synths. I have some cervical spine issues so customizing my live setup so my hands know them perfectly and keeping my screens at higher elevations is much more comfortable for me. Hunching over for long periods of time over 25 years of turntables, plus the evil ergonomics of laptops has not helped my neck out at all.

"The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing."

I totally agree there... that's assuming the dumbass sound guy doesn't fiddle with live PA after a previous 6 hours of opening acts.... then the high frequency ear fatigue has set in and he pushes the treble to 11 and it sounds like a Bose system. They never can keep their hands off... especially once you start your set.

I have managed to preserve my hearing and rely on Shure SE530 in ears for my own monitors to keep damage to a minimum. I realize my sound coming out of an Allen and Heath differs from the live PA, but I really don't want to be exposed to loud crunching PA at this point in my life. Plus I tend to have a lot going on and it's easier to concentrate and isolate frequencies, especially if the Sherman Filterbank is in use. I just hope the sound guy doesn't start his own tweaking (make friends, hand him a beer, and ask him not to touch it).

As far as showmanship... it's mainly us tekkies talking about the kit... the average kid on E is more interested in the light show than the guy on stage, and usually doesn't really get what we are doing or appreciate how hard it is. Face it... we all look the same up there ... except for the occasional foam mask, gas mask, or scantily clad dancers. It is unfortunate.

The right light show will trump anything we do on stage (still has to sound good) IMO.

Not saying I won't use my iPad for a gig, but I sure as hell won't be using it flat on a table at my waistline ... uggh, the pain. JMHO.

To each his own......
Andy Essenpreis
18.06.2010
Originally Posted by nem0nic
First, the benefit of touch controllers is that they are dynamically re-configurable - hardware isn't. They can respond to MIDI feedback, so all of your controls are always in the correct place and you never have those dead movements caused by soft takeover logic. That also means that you can always look at your controller and see what your values are WITHOUT staring at the application.

Second, showmanship absolutely plays a part in performance. DJs have been criticized for being detached from the audience. This is usually fine in a residency, because there are many reasons why people are in your club. But in a one off or feature performance, the audience paid money and came to see a specific artist. It's a bit boring to then just see some guy standing there. Feature artists are starting to understand this, and showmanship is starting to play a bigger role.

Also, don't underestimate the value in being able to take your controller with you and walk around the venue. Any DJ worth their salt knows what the venue sounds like, and does the occasional walk-around to verify that their audio is in good shape. The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing.

+1
Diogo Dj Dragão
18.06.2010
...any simple toggle on/off and some sliders can do it. It's more "showmanship" and hype that using iPads brings is why he's using it...
First, the benefit of touch controllers is that they are dynamically re-configurable - hardware isn't. They can respond to MIDI feedback, so all of your controls are always in the correct place and you never have those dead movements caused by soft takeover logic. That also means that you can always look at your controller and see what your values are WITHOUT staring at the application.

Second, showmanship absolutely plays a part in performance. DJs have been criticized for being detached from the audience. This is usually fine in a residency, because there are many reasons why people are in your club. But in a one off or feature performance, the audience paid money and came to see a specific artist. It's a bit boring to then just see some guy standing there. Feature artists are starting to understand this, and showmanship is starting to play a bigger role.

Also, don't underestimate the value in being able to take your controller with you and walk around the venue. Any DJ worth their salt knows what the venue sounds like, and does the occasional walk-around to verify that their audio is in good shape. The ability to make EQ tweaks on the floor and then transfer those over to the house PA is amazing.
Venice Yoeun
17.06.2010		Cool vid. I like a blend of technology... and use an SE100, launchpad, and 2 macbook pros... but my favorite controller is a Kenton 16 channel control freak with sliders. iPad is a toy with some interesting possible uses, but it's another thing that can go wrong. Maybe I'm just old school. All Ritchie does is trigger samples and change parameters... any simple toggle on/off and some sliders can do it. It's more "showmanship" and hype that using iPads brings is why he's using it... plus apple probably kicked him those for use and development. It makes good business. Trax still gotta be pumpin... his stuff hasn't always impressed me, but that's a matter of taste.
Herschel January
17.06.2010		video is back up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3GermFZ9_g
Herschel January
16.06.2010		http://griid.net/

this is what it's refering to, did a check after that vid was leaked, cause I'm assuming they made it private because it wasn't supposed to be out yet.

Originally Posted by sj03w4t
I mean, for #2 he does USE the ipad but I don't believe (yet) in his live shows?
Ipad is funny, but overrated and overhyped
it's funny how much overhyped, overrated, and other terms keep appearing on these and other community s. One thing that I've noticed is that "hype" seems to only appear constistantly with Apple items. Other items like, the NS7, CDJ2000, VCI-300, EKS Otus, APC-40, which were dubbed as the next best thing to sex from their respective makers all got the "we'll see if it's worth it when it's in use by professionals", and yet, when the iPad is making it's way in more and more professionals live performance setups, it turns to "ohh, that shit is so overhyped" even though it has never been marketed by apple as a DJ performance item. Evidentally not if the guys that basically define the way that the technology for DJ's go are CHOOSING to integrate them into their sets.

Hawtin has commisioned multiple software designers to do his bidding for numberous things, including Lemur layouts and his own iPhone app. You honestly believe that if using an iPad wasn't the best way to go for what he's using it for, that he wouldn't just get a layout for the Lemur made and use that? Ohh wait, he's using both. Must mean that it can compete at some level, or he would just have 5 lemurs instead of 3 and 2 iPads.

16.06.2010		"This video is private."



bummer.
Diogo Dj Dragão
16.06.2010		It's not at all overrated if it helps the person using it achieve what they want to achieve the way they want to achieve it.

Also this...

Main Entry: 1pro
Cristian Carmona
17.06.2010
Originally Posted by sj03w4t
...
Ipad is funny, but overrated and overhyped
:eek: What You Talking About Willis!



I love my iPad, I love what it can do. I wish I had more time to program my TouchOSC & OSCulator. The thing works, and for the price its not bad for a touch screen.

#justsayin
Jayne Yellowhair
17.06.2010
Originally Posted by pacustary
If Richie Hawtin uses the iPad, it must be good enough for professional use.
Don't really agree. It implies two things:
1. richie hawtin is not a professional dj
2. richie hawtin uses the ipad

I mean, for #2 he does USE the ipad but I don't believe (yet) in his live shows?
Ipad is funny, but overrated and overhyped
Cristian Carmona
17.06.2010		Nice.
Estella Waber
16.06.2010		Interesting, Hawtin and Deadmau5 are using growingly similair setups when playing out live.
Really fuels my technolust to see all those touch surfaces laid out like that

Mmm, time to take out a second loan? lol
Herschel January
15.06.2010		Forgot to mention that in his setup he laid it out Lemur, iPad, Lemur, iPad with exactly as much space as it needed. I'm sure this wasn't a coincidence which leads me to believe they are a rather key part of his setup.
Herschel January
15.06.2010
Originally Posted by pacustary
If Richie Hawtin uses the iPad, it must be good enough for professional use.

Not exactly "DJing" with the iPad, but check this out!
Not exactly DJing? 5 Words is all we needed that will make it work for DJ'ing. Modular, Ableton Live, Coming soon. Him and Hexler.net/touchOSC are pretty intertwined right now, considering they developed his interactive iphone app. Considering that Hawtin has always kinda been on the bleeding edge of just about every new controller or tech, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing kicked some major a$$.

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