DiskPlay - Digital Vinyl Evolved
DiskPlay - Digital Vinyl Evolved Posted on: 27.02.2013 by Penny Klock *Edit* UPDATE: You can read read more about the current system over here:Link to post *Edit* So we have been believeing about the Serato face problem for quite a while. We have come up with DiskPlay. DiskPlay is a non-commercial standalone application you can run on your mac. It is a research project i am doing as my final thesis. We are trying to display all the information where it is really important, on your turntables, bringing back some of the information that traditional vinyls provided and adding features on top of that. So here is a short introduction: The system is based on Serato Scratch Live and Serato Video, but is also compatible with the demo versions you can download from their website directly. We are using a white record, on which we project the information. The projector is mounted on top of the turntables. The system is still work in progress but coming along quite nicely. But we are planning to release a first version publicly very soon and to collect feedback from the community. | |
| Penny Klock 04.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
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| Danae Dumler 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Bonzo
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| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by DubluW
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| Mirian Gaura 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Bonzo
It would be possible to use one projector (with a high resolution), mounted on top, to project on both turntables or use 2 small pico projectors. The resolution of a pico projector (typically 640x480 or more) would definetely be enough. But you would need to make sure that actually use the whole projection to display the application
Thats good to know.
I dont exactly know what are trying to say here. The projectors can be mounted so that they don't restrict the DJ's movement or field of vision. You can either use a tripod or mount them to the ceiling or anything else that does the job. But you are right. Setting these things up is definitely not for the average person (a turntable with an integrated display would be the ultimate goal).
Actually adding displays in another place is what we want to avoid. Using the record itself as the display has many advantages over secondadry screens. You are shifting the focus to where it is really needed, where you are working with your hands. Looking back and forth between computer screen and record when navigating a track (finding cuepoints or beats) is a nuisance and timeconsuming.
Moving the display right below the turntable could help with that because you will not have to go all the way to the computer screen. But in the end will still be the same problem.
Yes, drawing waveforms is pretty heavy stuff. It takes CPU and GPU time. But it is not that much. Audio playback and usabilty of your host software (scratch live in this case) is not influenced by DiskPlay. We made sure that this will not happen. But what actually does happen instead is that you may see stuttering of the diskplay visualization.
There is a workaroung for that. DiskPlay actually gets its information over the network. By using a quartz composition in the video deck of scratch Live, we are pumping out the information via a network multicast. This enables us to connect to the datastream without any network configuration even from other machines. What this exactly means is that you can run scratch live on one machine and do the output on another machine which is in the same local network. But this is optional.
Thanks for bringing up your concerns, keep em coming. It helps me to get my head around things
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| Penny Klock 04.03.2013 |
Originally Posted by padi_04
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| Nedra Fresneda 04.03.2013 | Threads merged. |
| Penny Klock 04.03.2013 |
how does showing the portion of a tracks waveform that has already been played really help out the DJ?
In terms of the visual cues of traditional vinyl, there really aren't a whole lot except for the major breaks in a song
So should DJ's even need visual cues
"learn to beat match by ear suckah!"
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| Iraida Bonaventure 04.03.2013 | I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but how does showing the portion of a tracks waveform that has already been played really help out the DJ? Or did I misinterpret the video? In terms of the visual cues of traditional vinyl, there really aren't a whole lot except for the major breaks in a song. It's not even close to looking at a waveform. So should DJ's even need visual cues? We are talking about playing music here. I guess it definitely makes it easier, but like the ole saying goes "learn to beat match by ear suckah!" OK that's not really a saying, but you know what I mean. The cue points are kinda cool though. |
| Penny Klock 04.03.2013 | Thank you, that would be great |
| Sally Walkowiak 04.03.2013 | I don't have vinyl or a projector, but I'll pass this along to friends. |
| Penny Klock 05.03.2013 | Hi, I recently posted about a research project: DiskPlay. The idea behind this system is to bring the visual cues of traditional vinyl back to digital vinyl systems. You can download the software package from the projects website for free: http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/diskplay The project is non-commercial and you can keep the software. If you could spare a few minutes to to tell us what you would expect from such a system, what you liked and what confused you, we would be very grateful. We would like to get as much feedback as possible, so we set up a survey: Survey Link You can also contact us via Email: [email protected] Best Regards, Bonzo |
| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 | You are definitely right when talking about the grooves of the vinyl. No portable projector is even close to having the required resolution to display them. We got some ideas on that and how to get around this problem(but I will leave it to my potential successor to implement these). The hearing is still the main tool for any DJ, you will have to learn beatmatching. No matter what. But while you lose some aids which traditional vinyl provided, you could gain some others by using tech. But I have similiar concerns regarding the system. |
| Danae Dumler 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Bonzo
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| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by DubluW
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| Kiyoko Wellisch 01.03.2013 | I still believe something like this would be a nice alternative to a big bright laptop screen. Actually, with Ubuntu for mobile/tablets coming out I quite like the idea of getting xwax working on something like a Nexus 7 tablet and then having it sit on top of the mixer, both acting as a little compact display and powering the digital vinyl. Could even incorporate some touch gestures into the interface |
| Lillia Datson 01.03.2013 | It would mean a whole new turntable system, but a projection from underneath would solve having a projector hanging above you. |
| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 |
Ah good old Quartz.... so you have two machines powering this? One for Audio; one for Video? Would be interesting to see if a Raspberry Pi built into a turntable (and connect to a LCD) could receive this information from the main Host machine and power the graphics. Maybe Pure Data (PD) driven?
The Raspberry Pi or any other small machine inside a turntable is the way to go. Displaying the waveform would be a problem, because resources are very limited. Also, before starting such a thing it's better to check with the community if they would actually use or want such a thing.
People may then complain though that the DJ is just looking down all the time?
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| Mirian Gaura 28.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by Bonzo
It would be possible to use one projector (with a high resolution), mounted on top, to project on both turntables or use 2 small pico projectors. The resolution of a pico projector (typically 640x480 or more) would definetely be enough. But you would need to make sure that actually use the whole projection to display the application
Thats good to know.
I dont exactly know what are trying to say here. The projectors can be mounted so that they don't restrict the DJ's movement or field of vision. You can either use a tripod or mount them to the ceiling or anything else that does the job. But you are right. Setting these things up is definitely not for the average person (a turntable with an integrated display would be the ultimate goal).
Actually adding displays in another place is what we want to avoid. Using the record itself as the display has many advantages over secondadry screens. You are shifting the focus to where it is really needed, where you are working with your hands. Looking back and forth between computer screen and record when navigating a track (finding cuepoints or beats) is a nuisance and timeconsuming.
Moving the display right below the turntable could help with that because you will not have to go all the way to the computer screen. But in the end will still be the same problem.
Yes, drawing waveforms is pretty heavy stuff. It takes CPU and GPU time. But it is not that much. Audio playback and usabilty of your host software (scratch live in this case) is not influenced by DiskPlay. We made sure that this will not happen. But what actually does happen instead is that you may see stuttering of the diskplay visualization.
There is a workaroung for that. DiskPlay actually gets its information over the network. By using a quartz composition in the video deck of scratch Live, we are pumping out the information via a network multicast. This enables us to connect to the datastream without any network configuration even from other machines. What this exactly means is that you can run scratch live on one machine and do the output on another machine which is in the same local network. But this is optional.
Thanks for bringing up your concerns, keep em coming. It helps me to get my head around things
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| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 | First of all thanks for taking the time and bringing so many questions.
A lot of people couldn't afford one or two projectors and stands. Would small Pico projectors be up for the job or would the resolution be too low?
If you did have two projectors then they will be right in front (or very close) to being directly in front of the DJ - this is almost worse than a laptop scree. Unless you did some video mapping from afar or bounced off mirrors - its not a simple projection set up. Not for the 'average' person anyway.
Maybe instead of projection using iPad mini or small Andriod tablets which are used as extra/additional monitors (maybe even iPods or iphones/andriod phones?). These could be placed just in front of the turntable.... slanted slightly. (normally where all the cables and power are!) Even on small stands or arms.
Moving the display right below the turntable could help with that because you will not have to go all the way to the computer screen. But in the end will still be the same problem.
If this is running off the same machine as the software its going to add a lot of CPU and GPU resources.
There is a workaroung for that. DiskPlay actually gets its information over the network. By using a quartz composition in the video deck of scratch Live, we are pumping out the information via a network multicast. This enables us to connect to the datastream without any network configuration even from other machines. What this exactly means is that you can run scratch live on one machine and do the output on another machine which is in the same local network. But this is optional. Thanks for bringing up your concerns, keep em coming. It helps me to get my head around things |
| Marshall Aby 28.02.2013 | It's cool. Completely impractical. But cool. |
| Mirian Gaura 28.02.2013 | This is a really great idea and big props to you giving it a go. I can see a few problems/issues though (I am NOT hating, just opening up a discussion) - A lot of people couldn't afford one or two projectors and stands. Would small Pico projectors be up for the job or would the resolution be too low? - If you did have two projectors then they will be right in front (or very close) to being directly in front of the DJ - this is almost worse than a laptop scree. Unless you did some video mapping from afar or bounced off mirrors - its not a simple projection set up. Not for the 'average' person anyway. - Maybe instead of projection using iPad mini or small Andriod tablets which are used as extra/additional monitors (maybe even iPods or iphones/andriod phones?). These could be placed just in front of the turntable.... slanted slightly. (normally where all the cables and power are!) Even on small stands or arms. - If this is running off the same machine as the software its going to add a lot of CPU and GPU resources. BUT like I sad great great idea this really made me smile. Look forward watching it develop! |
| Teresia Janusch 28.02.2013 | I love the idea of this, i can see where the draw backs of its practical uses are but the theory is 100% sound. Keep working on it |
| Penny Klock 28.02.2013 | I would love to add Traktor support. But it is currently not possible. There is no API, you cant get any data out of it. Taking a projector and mount with you to every gig is not very practical indeed. Why buy a DVS so you dont need to carry all your records to the next gig and replace that with a projector and a mount . Integrating all of this into a single device is the ultimate goal. First of all we need to make sure people are actually accepting such a system and that it actually works. I can see your concerns and problems with the system and that is exactly what i want to hear. |
| Doreen Schurle 27.02.2013 | Of course, if you REALLY want to avoid Traktor Face, you buy a pair of these: http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/l...play-hands-on/ |
| Rochel Gleese 27.02.2013 | I'd write up a contract with Native Instruments if they let you use there API or whatever you'll give them first dibs on implementation slash let them buy it off you. Good luck |
| Jerica Salava 27.02.2013 | so now you look down instead of straight? That's not good. It's like texting and driving vs a HUD. > |
| Nedra Fresneda 27.02.2013 | reminds me of this |
| Dinorah Breeding 27.02.2013 | Amazing. Keep us posted! And shout out to a fellow Serato user! Getting this working with the Pioneer DDJSX and Serato DJ would be amazing. |
| Ervin Calvery 27.02.2013 | This is awesome. Do you have any plans for a Traktor version? |
| Danae Dumler 27.02.2013 | Amazing! And yes someone else posted a couple years ago about a different but very similar project. I don't believe they were distributing software yet though. This is totally badass. Not necessarily the most practical thing but that only makes it cooler, as far as I'm concerned. Great work! |
| Doreen Schurle 27.02.2013 | Omfg. |
| Penny Klock 27.02.2013 | Ok, so here is the thing: As i said the whole thing is non-commercial. The application is for free. You can try it out without actually owning the whole Serato Scratch Live stuff. It is working with the demo. So you can at least see how it looks like. There is a bit of preparation involved, because i cant integrate into any existing software. But i believe it |
| Farah Angeloni 27.02.2013 | This is absolutely awesome!! I'm on traktor,if something like this would be released for affordable price. I'm on it!!! |
| Treasa Maffucci 27.02.2013 | Awesome work. I can see the limitations, but its a great start, and i can see this really going places. Also really appreciate how you are incorporating new technology on the old "standard" of TTs. If it were me, I would put a white label on the timecodes and display the track information on the label, and keep it readable (ie it doesnt rotate with the record). Good luck on the rest of your project! |
| Jetta Drenzek 27.02.2013 | Stick a fork in me, I'm done. |
| Larae Knifong 27.02.2013 | How much will the system cost? |
| Penny Klock 27.02.2013 | Of course you can use whatever projector you like. For our setup we used a very old projector to ensure that the colors are actually visible on other projectors. We actually used that projector to make video above. Its resolution is only 1024x768 (and only a small portion of that is actually used). There were far better projectors available at the chair. But not everyone has a top notch projector at home. Making sure it is working with old projectors was an important thing to us. We also checked out clear vinyl, black vinyl and white vinyl. Clear vinyl delivers good results, but is of course not as sharp as a non-translucent record.
Didn't someone do something with a projector on here before? Was that you as well?
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| Janyce Henningson 27.02.2013 | Thats really cool, very impressed. Didn't someone do something with a projector on here before? Was that you as well? |
| Johnsie Kingrea 27.02.2013 | Incredible, could you use something like a pico projector or something mini? This would be nuts but the turning the platter Into a screen with a clear vinyl could also do the trick. Congratulations on your hard work |
| Penny Klock 27.02.2013 | An all in one solution is what we all dream of But most of the companies don |
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