What do you think about the new KontrolX_?

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What do you think about the new KontrolX_?
Posted on: 16.01.2012 by Natalia Bucko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SGxd1Cm2_Sc

What are your thoughts on the Released(no it's not leaked) video on the kontrol X_?

What do you guys believe the chances are of them doing proprietary bullshit like they did with the S4 and S2 and make it impossible to re purpose it without losing functionality?
Considering that there's no jog wheels, and nobody's going to be using those faders for pitch, I don't see any reason at all to use their very limiting HD bullshit on this, instead of standard midi.... But I KNOW they're going to....

personally, I believe NI needs to realize what their niche in the market is. Serato has the traditional DJ scene in the bag, and ableton has the layering loops/clips scene down. What Traktor has is amazing effects, cue points and cue point juggling, and the ability to easily mix four decks on the fly. THAT is what they should be focusing on... not trying to make some smaller bastard child of ableton, like they seem to be in this video.

Right now the only valid use for sample decks that isn't already done better in traktor's track decks, is the ability to pull loops from track decks on the fly. And even then it's only useful if you're going to layer them. Other than that they're useless. Track decks are still better for samples, as you can pack twice as many in a track, plus you can put cue points in the middle of samples. Also, ableton still makes more sense for playing pre-recorded loops.

I'm sure they've brought the new sample decks much further in the new version, but it's still going to be a bastard version of ableton... So I don't agree with why.

I believe they should be expanding the functionality of the cue point system. When the first picture was released, I was excited because it seemed to me like they were going to double the maximum number of cue points, because of the 16 pads, and allow us to color code them. This would be amazing. I was hoping to use the pads for cuepoints and a mini fighter-style effects grid, and use the faders and knobs for effect combos. I'm afraid that i won't get to do that without losing functionality, because that's what they did with the S4.

Basically what I'm saying is: AWESOME idea for hardware, terrible idea for the direction of the software/mapping.

Also, guess at the price? I'm gonna say $600 to start
Chasidy Heckenbach
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
You just have to make recordings of each loop, and each combination of loops you're going to use, then put loops/cue points on them.
which is practically impossible ofc if u are really into dropping multiple samples from the sample decks spontaneously. all possible start points of each sample and different levels for each combination? that's hundreds of combinations at least - and u only have a very limitted number of hot cues to start with that u can midi map. not that i would mind if they increased that number but still wouldn't come close to being able to replace sample deck functionality.

personally i believe this new might could be great. i'm starting to love using sample decks in traktor and hate the hassle of synching ableton - so i don't see some more ableton-ness functionality in traktor a bad thing at all. everyone uses traktor differently tho ofc.
Leeanna Ayla
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
All three of these scenarios can easily be done with track decks with a little bit of forethought, and would be much more versatile.
Please explain to me how can you play more than one sample at the same time on a single track deck and control the volume of the each sample independently?
Natalia Bucko
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
How about tracks in decks A&B, two samples playing on deck C and three samples playing on deck D? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks A&B one sample playing in deck C and one sample playing in deck D, but I want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks A&B three samples playing in deck C and four samples playing in Deck D and I want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
All three of these scenarios can easily be done with track decks with a little bit of forethought, and would be much more versatile. You just have to make recordings of each loop, and each combination of loops you're going to use, then put loops/cue points on them. You can even map the same buttons to make the exact same sound happen if you do it correctly, using load commands. I do it all the time.

But, to be fair, yes, I misspoke. There is another instance where track decks are useful. If you are a DJ who doesn't want to do any pre-work, and are willing to sacrifice functionality, then yes, sample decks are easier.

The only claim I'm trying to make about the sample decks is that NI didn't design them deeply enough to have much use, except to make certain things easier to do, at the cost of functionality.

Now, it looks like in this new update, they're going to become much more useful. What I'm trying to say is that I personally wish they'd put less effort into adding the functionality of a loop system that's been done before, and more effort into developing new things. I wish they'd be more innovative, I guess.

Sure, it's totally possible that they added a lot of other new functionality that they didn't show off in this video, but judging from the past, it's easy to doubt. When the teaser for S4 came out, it showed off pretty much every new functionality, in a style very similar to this video.
Kristofer Krauel
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
how about tracks in decks a&b, two samples playing on deck c and three samples playing on deck d? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks a&b one sample playing in deck c and one sample playing in deck d, but i want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks a&b three samples playing in deck c and four samples playing in deck d and i want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
ouch!!
Leeanna Ayla
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
Nah, I'm actually confident on this one. I'll happily offer to show anyone how to use track decks to do all of the same things sample decks do, but better. The only exception is specifically *layering* loops that you pull on the fly. If you use that specific feature with more than one loop at a time, then yes, sample decks are useful. For any other features of the sample decks that you believe are useful, just ask and I'll happily instruct you on how to do it better on a track deck.
How about tracks in decks A&B, two samples playing on deck C and three samples playing on deck D? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks A&B one sample playing in deck C and one sample playing in deck D, but I want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks A&B three samples playing in deck C and four samples playing in Deck D and I want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
Natalia Bucko
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
It really bothers me when people spout of words like useless and stupid when talking about things like this. Maybe it's useless to you, but it's not to everybody.
Nah, I'm actually confident on this one. I'll happily offer to show anyone how to use track decks to do all of the same things sample decks do, but better. The only exception is specifically *layering* loops that you pull on the fly. If you use that specific feature with more than one loop at a time, then yes, sample decks are useful. For any other features of the sample decks that you believe are useful, just ask and I'll happily instruct you on how to do it better on a track deck.

Originally Posted by DJAttackZ
you have defiantly gone out on a limb for a product that we know very little about but a teaser video/picture..
I agree sort of. It's definitely possible that it does more for things besides sample decks... And maybe they are rebuilding the mapping system, and all of this is moot. But all we have to go on right now is what we see, and all they've shown us is some stupid ableton-attempt crap.

But I'm afraid, because every single control label on the hardware seems to tailor to sample decks... I know they're not going to change those, and NI's way of mapping (HiD) tends to be impossible to re purpose without losing functionality.
Natalia Bucko
16.01.2012		http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SGxd1Cm2_Sc

What are your thoughts on the Released(no it's not leaked) video on the kontrol X_?

What do you guys believe the chances are of them doing proprietary bullshit like they did with the S4 and S2 and make it impossible to re purpose it without losing functionality?
Considering that there's no jog wheels, and nobody's going to be using those faders for pitch, I don't see any reason at all to use their very limiting HD bullshit on this, instead of standard midi.... But I KNOW they're going to....

personally, I believe NI needs to realize what their niche in the market is. Serato has the traditional DJ scene in the bag, and ableton has the layering loops/clips scene down. What Traktor has is amazing effects, cue points and cue point juggling, and the ability to easily mix four decks on the fly. THAT is what they should be focusing on... not trying to make some smaller bastard child of ableton, like they seem to be in this video.

Right now the only valid use for sample decks that isn't already done better in traktor's track decks, is the ability to pull loops from track decks on the fly. And even then it's only useful if you're going to layer them. Other than that they're useless. Track decks are still better for samples, as you can pack twice as many in a track, plus you can put cue points in the middle of samples. Also, ableton still makes more sense for playing pre-recorded loops.

I'm sure they've brought the new sample decks much further in the new version, but it's still going to be a bastard version of ableton... So I don't agree with why.

I believe they should be expanding the functionality of the cue point system. When the first picture was released, I was excited because it seemed to me like they were going to double the maximum number of cue points, because of the 16 pads, and allow us to color code them. This would be amazing. I was hoping to use the pads for cuepoints and a mini fighter-style effects grid, and use the faders and knobs for effect combos. I'm afraid that i won't get to do that without losing functionality, because that's what they did with the S4.

Basically what I'm saying is: AWESOME idea for hardware, terrible idea for the direction of the software/mapping.

Also, guess at the price? I'm gonna say $600 to start
Chasidy Heckenbach
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
You just have to make recordings of each loop, and each combination of loops you're going to use, then put loops/cue points on them.
which is practically impossible ofc if u are really into dropping multiple samples from the sample decks spontaneously. all possible start points of each sample and different levels for each combination? that's hundreds of combinations at least - and u only have a very limitted number of hot cues to start with that u can midi map. not that i would mind if they increased that number but still wouldn't come close to being able to replace sample deck functionality.

personally i believe this new might could be great. i'm starting to love using sample decks in traktor and hate the hassle of synching ableton - so i don't see some more ableton-ness functionality in traktor a bad thing at all. everyone uses traktor differently tho ofc.
Leeanna Ayla
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
All three of these scenarios can easily be done with track decks with a little bit of forethought, and would be much more versatile.
Please explain to me how can you play more than one sample at the same time on a single track deck and control the volume of the each sample independently?
Natalia Bucko
18.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
How about tracks in decks A&B, two samples playing on deck C and three samples playing on deck D? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks A&B one sample playing in deck C and one sample playing in deck D, but I want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks A&B three samples playing in deck C and four samples playing in Deck D and I want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
All three of these scenarios can easily be done with track decks with a little bit of forethought, and would be much more versatile. You just have to make recordings of each loop, and each combination of loops you're going to use, then put loops/cue points on them. You can even map the same buttons to make the exact same sound happen if you do it correctly, using load commands. I do it all the time.

But, to be fair, yes, I misspoke. There is another instance where track decks are useful. If you are a DJ who doesn't want to do any pre-work, and are willing to sacrifice functionality, then yes, sample decks are easier.

The only claim I'm trying to make about the sample decks is that NI didn't design them deeply enough to have much use, except to make certain things easier to do, at the cost of functionality.

Now, it looks like in this new update, they're going to become much more useful. What I'm trying to say is that I personally wish they'd put less effort into adding the functionality of a loop system that's been done before, and more effort into developing new things. I wish they'd be more innovative, I guess.

Sure, it's totally possible that they added a lot of other new functionality that they didn't show off in this video, but judging from the past, it's easy to doubt. When the teaser for S4 came out, it showed off pretty much every new functionality, in a style very similar to this video.
Kristofer Krauel
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
how about tracks in decks a&b, two samples playing on deck c and three samples playing on deck d? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks a&b one sample playing in deck c and one sample playing in deck d, but i want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks a&b three samples playing in deck c and four samples playing in deck d and i want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
ouch!!
Danae Dumler
17.01.2012		$600?? No way, they want people to buy two of these, this will come in around $250.
Leeanna Ayla
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by faderswagger
Nah, I'm actually confident on this one. I'll happily offer to show anyone how to use track decks to do all of the same things sample decks do, but better. The only exception is specifically *layering* loops that you pull on the fly. If you use that specific feature with more than one loop at a time, then yes, sample decks are useful. For any other features of the sample decks that you believe are useful, just ask and I'll happily instruct you on how to do it better on a track deck.
How about tracks in decks A&B, two samples playing on deck C and three samples playing on deck D? Each of the samples playing need to be played at different volumes though.

Or how about tracks in decks A&B one sample playing in deck C and one sample playing in deck D, but I want to fire off a one shot every 32nd beat without me pressing a button?

Or how about tracks in decks A&B three samples playing in deck C and four samples playing in Deck D and I want to use and effect on just two of those samples?

I do all of the above all the time with loops from tracks and purchased samples.
Erich Vallabhaneni
17.01.2012		I believe it looks awesome. The possibility to color cue points and shizz will help and the RGB pads just look sexy to me . Cant wait till release!! :faints:
Natalia Bucko
17.01.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
It really bothers me when people spout of words like useless and stupid when talking about things like this. Maybe it's useless to you, but it's not to everybody.
Nah, I'm actually confident on this one. I'll happily offer to show anyone how to use track decks to do all of the same things sample decks do, but better. The only exception is specifically *layering* loops that you pull on the fly. If you use that specific feature with more than one loop at a time, then yes, sample decks are useful. For any other features of the sample decks that you believe are useful, just ask and I'll happily instruct you on how to do it better on a track deck.

Originally Posted by DJAttackZ
you have defiantly gone out on a limb for a product that we know very little about but a teaser video/picture..
I agree sort of. It's definitely possible that it does more for things besides sample decks... And maybe they are rebuilding the mapping system, and all of this is moot. But all we have to go on right now is what we see, and all they've shown us is some stupid ableton-attempt crap.

But I'm afraid, because every single control label on the hardware seems to tailor to sample decks... I know they're not going to change those, and NI's way of mapping (HiD) tends to be impossible to re purpose without losing functionality.
Pauletta Place
17.01.2012		I am excited about the new controller. I believe it looks really fun and would be wonderfully gaudy with DJTT knobs and faders.

Also, I look forward to NI adding features to the sample decks, which I don't use currently. I hope there is some integration with Maschine, cause sample decks could be really useful in that environment.
Wynell Ludin
17.01.2012		you have defiantly gone out on a limb for a product that we know very little about but a teaser video/picture..
Leeanna Ayla
17.01.2012		It really bothers me when people spout of words like useless and stupid when talking about things like this. Maybe it's useless to you, but it's not to everybody.
Lisa Lochotzki
16.01.2012		NI shouldn't follow "what the other use", they want and will introduce their own way and people will make their decision. Staying with their old but good workflow or develop something else. This is what makes NI... NI. Not (x company) + Ableton, Y company + Z company.

NI can do whatever they want and people will follow or continue to work as they already work. It's more a roadmap than playing sheep.

Definitely a winner for me for most gigs, while unsure for bigger gigs where I go out with Traktor, Ableton & Maschine.

2012 you smell good.
Lashay Walchak
16.01.2012		Definately not as excited about it as a supplement to my S2 as I was when I first saw the pads. I'll personally be scouting for a used Maschine instead. I'm with the OP on this one, not into Ableton style clip launching DJ style whatsoever.
Rochel Gleese
16.01.2012		It's easy to make your custom controls for the X1.

And NI are very smart there are a lot of Serato guys using X1s now as well, theres also a lot of Serato users coming over to Traktor.
Nedra Fresneda
16.01.2012		They will use HID on this, like they do with the X1. Regarding funtionality tied to the default map, quite possible, but can't tell really until they release it. Most of the stuff seams to be "easily" duplicated.
Johnetta Olewine
16.01.2012		wow. way to fly off the handle without actually using either of the new software or hardware. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups

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