Am I the only one who hates notched encoders?

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Am I the only one who hates notched encoders?
Posted on: 10.08.2012 by Eloy Kiepke
Really... Why do I keep seeing them on devices, when I see smooth, LED ring encoders on FAR cheaper stuff like behringer's new CMD line?

Do people LIKE notched encoders? The only purpose I see for them is taking the place of a pair of up/down buttons and a "confirm" button.

For changing values, they're just awful IMO.

also, I believe push LED ring encoders need to take over for just about everything except EQ... those things are incredible. You can map ONE to as many different control layers as as you want, without the need for takeover when you switch layers. Plus you can map their push command to reset to default. AMAZING.


EDIT: to avoid any newbie confusion, by notched encoders, I mean endless knobs that *click* when you turn them, I don't mean knobs with a center indent like most EQs etc.
Isa Erik
12.08.2012
Originally Posted by SirReal
I live with them on my 2 DNSC2000's, they work ok but non-notched would be much more prefereable.
this
Random X
11.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
best encoders ever belong to novation nocturns... they have a very minor click when you turn, but the resolution is fantastic and they are incredibly modifiable in the editor so you have precise control over anything... The other huge thing is you can change them from virtual absolute to normal +/- encoder steps. Hopefully they get used on another novation controller in the future. But I love my nocturn!


There is only one Rotary Encoder Controller....



The Behringer BCR 2000!

Latoria Kavulich
11.08.2012
Originally Posted by tekki
This.
This.
Celestine Porebski
10.08.2012
Originally Posted by sss18734
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.
Haha, I thought exactly the same thing
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by deevey
So remap it with sensitivity/acceleration control - problem solved ?
You've never tried to do that, I assume?
Why would we want to get used to acceleration, when smooth encoders can easily be turned at the exact speed as knobs, and arent much more expensive?
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by sss18734
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.
No, but it's the gear that I have right now, so it comes up a lot... Just like other people use it, or whatever their set up is, in examples all the time.

Originally Posted by sss18734
Isn't it common sense that you shouldnt map your notched encoder to a filter? Instead map it to loop size, browse functions, effects with set values, etc.
Filter was the easiest example, i was talking about it being mapped to FX. They are on a lot of gear nowadays, intended for FX control.

Originally Posted by zimfella
lol did not realise who the op was, no offence.
Erica Charvet
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by Saurus
Ever used the gain knobs on the S4? Notice how much you have to turn those to just change the volume a noticeable amount? Imagine having to map an effect on to that where you need to go from zero to max...

This stuff matters.
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.

Isn't it common sense that you shouldnt map your notched encoder to a filter? Instead map it to loop size, browse functions, effects with set values, etc.

I believe the gain adjust is fine. It keeps gain adjustments smooth and minor, as they should be. If you choose to map an effect onto them, you can make it as sensitive as you desire.
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by tekki
This.
agreed. That's what I meant by: "The only purpose I see for them is taking the place of a pair of up/down buttons and a "confirm" button."

Originally Posted by ksandvik
Few even cares about this issue at all.
If you know what you're doing with your gear.... you care about this stuff.
Yes you can work around it just fine, just like you can play a great set on a pair of shitty CDJs and a cheap mixer if you have to. But when you're designing YOU OWN rig, you care about this stuff if you're serious about DJing. If you try to map effects to a notched encoder, you have to either set it so that you can either hear the notches as you turn up the effects, thus ruining a filter sweep etc. or so that you have to crank the knob around fifty times to get the effect all the way up.

Ever used the gain knobs on the S4? Notice how much you have to turn those to just change the volume a noticeable amount? Imagine having to map an effect on to that where you need to go from zero to max...

This stuff matters.
Isa Erik
12.08.2012
Originally Posted by SirReal
I live with them on my 2 DNSC2000's, they work ok but non-notched would be much more prefereable.
this
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
11.08.2012		nah it's all done in the middleware unfotunately, the novation zero has a midi mode but not the nocturn. If I was ever going to frankenstien a controller it would have the brain of the zero in it as it has just the right amount of analogue controls, heaps of digital and the mk2 has a midi lcd screen capable of displaying a lot of information.
Diogo Dj Dragão
11.08.2012		Is it not MIDI?
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
11.08.2012		I believe someone needs to crack the communication protocol of the nocturn so you get use of all the buttons and the touch sensitivity of the encoders, It's not HID and I could never find a software sniffer capable of intercepting the messages There was a project for linux on github using the nocturn though.
Kiyoko Wellisch
12.08.2012		The middleware of the Novation Nocturn blows everything out the water. If only it were on board firmware and not middleware.

The Nocturn and the BCR2000 need to have a baby.
Random X
11.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
best encoders ever belong to novation nocturns... they have a very minor click when you turn, but the resolution is fantastic and they are incredibly modifiable in the editor so you have precise control over anything... The other huge thing is you can change them from virtual absolute to normal +/- encoder steps. Hopefully they get used on another novation controller in the future. But I love my nocturn!


There is only one Rotary Encoder Controller....



The Behringer BCR 2000!

Celine Surico
11.08.2012		Are you still debating about this thing?
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
11.08.2012		best encoders ever belong to novation nocturns... they have a very minor click when you turn, but the resolution is fantastic and they are incredibly modifiable in the editor so you have precise control over anything... The other huge thing is you can change them from virtual absolute to normal +/- encoder steps. Hopefully they get used on another novation controller in the future. But I love my nocturn!

Latoria Kavulich
11.08.2012
Originally Posted by tekki
This.
This.
Celestine Porebski
10.08.2012
Originally Posted by sss18734
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.
Haha, I thought exactly the same thing
Germaine Bernadin
10.08.2012		I find them sensual.
Diogo Dj Dragão
10.08.2012		There are REASONS why developers use things like encoders with detents. Sometimes these reasons are technical (like when the knob is meant to scroll through an ordered list), and sometimes they're more cultural (like English mixers using pots with detents so the pots can stop at measured values). In either case, it usually isn't a trivial decision. There's usually a good reason.
Erica Charvet
09.08.2012		How many controllers out there have mostly indented encoders? Just about everything I've seen has smooth encoders or a healthy combination of both.
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by deevey
So remap it with sensitivity/acceleration control - problem solved ?
You've never tried to do that, I assume?
Why would we want to get used to acceleration, when smooth encoders can easily be turned at the exact speed as knobs, and arent much more expensive?
Hanna Ridenbaugh
09.08.2012
Rolanda Clodfelder
09.08.2012
Ever used the gain knobs on the S4? Notice how much you have to turn those to just change the volume a noticeable amount? Imagine having to map an effect on to that where you need to go from zero to max...
So remap it with sensitivity/acceleration control - problem solved ?
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by sss18734
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.
No, but it's the gear that I have right now, so it comes up a lot... Just like other people use it, or whatever their set up is, in examples all the time.

Originally Posted by sss18734
Isn't it common sense that you shouldnt map your notched encoder to a filter? Instead map it to loop size, browse functions, effects with set values, etc.
Filter was the easiest example, i was talking about it being mapped to FX. They are on a lot of gear nowadays, intended for FX control.

Originally Posted by zimfella
lol did not realise who the op was, no offence.
Hanna Ridenbaugh
09.08.2012		lol did not realise who the op was, no offence.
Erica Charvet
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by Saurus
Ever used the gain knobs on the S4? Notice how much you have to turn those to just change the volume a noticeable amount? Imagine having to map an effect on to that where you need to go from zero to max...

This stuff matters.
Are you on the community s soley to complain about the S4 and boast about the Behringer modular controllers? Seems like it... lol.

Isn't it common sense that you shouldnt map your notched encoder to a filter? Instead map it to loop size, browse functions, effects with set values, etc.

I believe the gain adjust is fine. It keeps gain adjustments smooth and minor, as they should be. If you choose to map an effect onto them, you can make it as sensitive as you desire.
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by tekki
This.
agreed. That's what I meant by: "The only purpose I see for them is taking the place of a pair of up/down buttons and a "confirm" button."

Originally Posted by ksandvik
Few even cares about this issue at all.
If you know what you're doing with your gear.... you care about this stuff.
Yes you can work around it just fine, just like you can play a great set on a pair of shitty CDJs and a cheap mixer if you have to. But when you're designing YOU OWN rig, you care about this stuff if you're serious about DJing. If you try to map effects to a notched encoder, you have to either set it so that you can either hear the notches as you turn up the effects, thus ruining a filter sweep etc. or so that you have to crank the knob around fifty times to get the effect all the way up.

Ever used the gain knobs on the S4? Notice how much you have to turn those to just change the volume a noticeable amount? Imagine having to map an effect on to that where you need to go from zero to max...

This stuff matters.
Random X
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by zimfella
fine for browsing library and loops size.
This.
Celine Surico
09.08.2012
Originally Posted by Saurus
Nobody likes notched encoders enough that they'd buy systems specifically for them.
Few even cares about this issue at all.
Rey Holubar
09.08.2012		Knotched encoders are good, if they are there were you need them, like on the S4 as gain knobs or the loop size and jump knobs.

scamo
Hanna Ridenbaugh
09.08.2012		Can't stand them for effect use, fine for browsing library and loops size.
Antonetta Wikel
09.08.2012		I live with them on my 2 DNSC2000's, they work ok but non-notched would be much more prefereable.
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012		Nobody likes notched encoders enough that they'd buy systems specifically for them.
Celine Surico
09.08.2012		As with anything else on the market there's a reason some purchase systems based on notched encoders.
Eloy Kiepke
09.08.2012		<3
Rolanda Clodfelder
10.08.2012		*edit* OP edited his post and my question became null and void.

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