Vestax VCi-400 scratch wheel resolution problems in Traktor - Fine in Serato

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Vestax VCi-400 scratch wheel resolution problems in Traktor - Fine in Serato
Posted on: 02.08.2012 by Dori Lebahn
Hello Tech Tools People....

I've been toying around with the Vestax VCi-400 with Traktor and seem to have come up against a major issue with the jog wheel resolution.

When scratching with the platters at any speed the sound "drifts" :the point in the track at which I am cueing back and forth slips forward which makes it impossible to scratch with.

I have adjusted the acceleration and sensitivity settings in the software as well as the hardware sensitivity adjustment pots and the friction adjustment on the platter itself. The problem remains.

Rather tellingly: if I run up Serato DJ Intro and try scratching - the response is perfect. No adjustment needed.

Is this just loose integration with Traktor ? Is there another setting I could tweak?

I bought the VCi-400 for the tactile platters and the solid build quality. I like to scratch.
But Serato DJ intro is pretty weak and Traktor doesn't want to play ball when scratching so I feel a bit stuck here....can any of you fine people suggest something?

Cheers
Loudat
Sharon Batte
25.10.2012
Originally Posted by scooterADAM
There is probably some thread about this somewhere else buuuut...

Short answer AFAIK is that the traktor midi mapping implementation will not let you get the same performance as serato intro/itch/dj.

The response you are looking for is currently only available for traktor using the NI controllers (S2/S4) jog wheels that utilize proprietary HID to talk to the software. And the way those jog wheels work is not necessarily what you are after for scratching...

In general if you want to have control over non-weak software with your VCI400 that mimics real vinyl feel for scratching here are the options:
- wait until 'Winter 2013' when Serato DJ is supposed to work with your VCI400, promises to be pretty kickass
- investigate VDJ, have heard that mappings can be made very tight... someone else may be able to chime in here tho...
- might be interesting to try with DJ Player 5.0 (though this may be about as basic as intro but pretty cool to use it with an iPad)

If you have to have as close to vinyl feel right now:
- switch to a VCI-300/380 with Itch (currently the best non-traktor static jog wheel implementation that I am aware of)
- I seem to recall a review that mentioned the DDJ-T1 (pioneer traktor contrller) had a special (now old) version of Traktor that might get you close... also possibly the numark 4-trak although that might also just use normal midi, not sure
- switch to motorized platter controller with Itch (NS7, V7)
- bite the bullet and get decks and DVS
- advanced HID CDJs
sad sad times, i thank you for writing this lengthy detailed response it was most helpful i am however, after shelling out 630 quid on a vci 400 not gona go spend more money on different hardware

Originally Posted by loudat
Essentially NI only make software for NI Hardware and that's the case.
this phrase makes me feel physically sick and want to stab "NI" as if they were an individual person. i jest (sort of) i am not violent or murderous, they could reach such a larger market if they reached out to other brands of hardware.

anywayssssssssssssssssss, i downloaded serato dj intro before and am already impressed with the response time, seems much better. can you tell me what the different between serato dj intro and just serato dj is. i'm guessing intro is like a "lite" version no ?

either way theres a lot i need to investigate, as some of the functions on my vci 400 dont work the same as they do in traktor.

one video of the vci-400 that impressed me though, and sort of swayed me to buy it was dj unkuts routine, is he not using traktor? his cutting seems tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight !
Dori Lebahn
25.10.2012
Originally Posted by phillyt
did you ever sort this problem out? I can't scratch like I could on real decks. Is it defo a traktor problem? I dont want to try serato cos im liking traktor.
Sadly I never got this sorted. There are a lot of issues with Traktor implementation on non NI hardware that aren't apparent until you start to explore a little deeper. Jog wheel response and quantized triggering are issues that render Traktor inadequte for use on the VCI-400.

Essentially NI only make software for NI Hardware and that's the case.

Serato DJ looks like it could be promising so I'd hang on for a few weeks and experiment with that.

Traktor has let me down too many times I'm afraid so I've switched back to Serato for DVS and I'm waiting for Serator DJ..
Dori Lebahn
02.08.2012		Hello Tech Tools People....

I've been toying around with the Vestax VCi-400 with Traktor and seem to have come up against a major issue with the jog wheel resolution.

When scratching with the platters at any speed the sound "drifts" :the point in the track at which I am cueing back and forth slips forward which makes it impossible to scratch with.

I have adjusted the acceleration and sensitivity settings in the software as well as the hardware sensitivity adjustment pots and the friction adjustment on the platter itself. The problem remains.

Rather tellingly: if I run up Serato DJ Intro and try scratching - the response is perfect. No adjustment needed.

Is this just loose integration with Traktor ? Is there another setting I could tweak?

I bought the VCi-400 for the tactile platters and the solid build quality. I like to scratch.
But Serato DJ intro is pretty weak and Traktor doesn't want to play ball when scratching so I feel a bit stuck here....can any of you fine people suggest something?

Cheers
Loudat
Sharon Batte
25.10.2012
Originally Posted by scooterADAM
There is probably some thread about this somewhere else buuuut...

Short answer AFAIK is that the traktor midi mapping implementation will not let you get the same performance as serato intro/itch/dj.

The response you are looking for is currently only available for traktor using the NI controllers (S2/S4) jog wheels that utilize proprietary HID to talk to the software. And the way those jog wheels work is not necessarily what you are after for scratching...

In general if you want to have control over non-weak software with your VCI400 that mimics real vinyl feel for scratching here are the options:
- wait until 'Winter 2013' when Serato DJ is supposed to work with your VCI400, promises to be pretty kickass
- investigate VDJ, have heard that mappings can be made very tight... someone else may be able to chime in here tho...
- might be interesting to try with DJ Player 5.0 (though this may be about as basic as intro but pretty cool to use it with an iPad)

If you have to have as close to vinyl feel right now:
- switch to a VCI-300/380 with Itch (currently the best non-traktor static jog wheel implementation that I am aware of)
- I seem to recall a review that mentioned the DDJ-T1 (pioneer traktor contrller) had a special (now old) version of Traktor that might get you close... also possibly the numark 4-trak although that might also just use normal midi, not sure
- switch to motorized platter controller with Itch (NS7, V7)
- bite the bullet and get decks and DVS
- advanced HID CDJs
sad sad times, i thank you for writing this lengthy detailed response it was most helpful i am however, after shelling out 630 quid on a vci 400 not gona go spend more money on different hardware

Originally Posted by loudat
Essentially NI only make software for NI Hardware and that's the case.
this phrase makes me feel physically sick and want to stab "NI" as if they were an individual person. i jest (sort of) i am not violent or murderous, they could reach such a larger market if they reached out to other brands of hardware.

anywayssssssssssssssssss, i downloaded serato dj intro before and am already impressed with the response time, seems much better. can you tell me what the different between serato dj intro and just serato dj is. i'm guessing intro is like a "lite" version no ?

either way theres a lot i need to investigate, as some of the functions on my vci 400 dont work the same as they do in traktor.

one video of the vci-400 that impressed me though, and sort of swayed me to buy it was dj unkuts routine, is he not using traktor? his cutting seems tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight !
Dori Lebahn
25.10.2012
Originally Posted by phillyt
did you ever sort this problem out? I can't scratch like I could on real decks. Is it defo a traktor problem? I dont want to try serato cos im liking traktor.
Sadly I never got this sorted. There are a lot of issues with Traktor implementation on non NI hardware that aren't apparent until you start to explore a little deeper. Jog wheel response and quantized triggering are issues that render Traktor inadequte for use on the VCI-400.

Essentially NI only make software for NI Hardware and that's the case.

Serato DJ looks like it could be promising so I'd hang on for a few weeks and experiment with that.

Traktor has let me down too many times I'm afraid so I've switched back to Serato for DVS and I'm waiting for Serator DJ..
Maile Dekerlegand
25.10.2012		There is probably some thread about this somewhere else buuuut...

Short answer AFAIK is that the traktor midi mapping implementation will not let you get the same performance as serato intro/itch/dj.

The response you are looking for is currently only available for traktor using the NI controllers (S2/S4) jog wheels that utilize proprietary HID to talk to the software. And the way those jog wheels work is not necessarily what you are after for scratching...

In general if you want to have control over non-weak software with your VCI400 that mimics real vinyl feel for scratching here are the options:
- wait until 'Winter 2013' when Serato DJ is supposed to work with your VCI400, promises to be pretty kickass
- investigate VDJ, have heard that mappings can be made very tight... someone else may be able to chime in here tho...
- might be interesting to try with DJ Player 5.0 (though this may be about as basic as intro but pretty cool to use it with an iPad)

If you have to have as close to vinyl feel right now:
- switch to a VCI-300/380 with Itch (currently the best non-traktor static jog wheel implementation that I am aware of)
- I seem to recall a review that mentioned the DDJ-T1 (pioneer traktor contrller) had a special (now old) version of Traktor that might get you close... also possibly the numark 4-trak although that might also just use normal midi, not sure
- switch to motorized platter controller with Itch (NS7, V7)
- bite the bullet and get decks and DVS
- advanced HID CDJs
Sharon Batte
24.10.2012		did you ever sort this problem out? I can't scratch like I could on real decks. Is it defo a traktor problem? I dont want to try serato cos im liking traktor.
Cassie Sangermano
06.08.2012		Unfortunately I dont own a VCI-400, so I have no other ideas. It works fine on my Denon MC-6000, so i don;t know if it could be something hardware related. I'm sure someone around here owns one and will chime in soon enough though
Dori Lebahn
03.08.2012		Thanks so much for the reply - I really appreciate it.
I'm adjusting the "Scratch Control"parameters in the midi assign table

I've experimented with Rotary acceleration down to zero and Rotary Sensitity from 0% to 300% and endless combinations of Acceleration between 0% and 100% but I still experience this drift. It's really frustrating. Or I'm massively thick - this is quite possible
Cassie Sangermano
03.08.2012		When you say 'adjusted the acceleration settings in the software' what did you exactly do to them? If I remember rightly, for no acceleration (i.e. speeding up the faster you move the wheel, which in this case relates directly to drift), you would have to set it to 0.

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