Best way to beat match and transition from low to high BPM and vice versa
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Best way to beat match and transition from low to high BPM and vice versa Posted on: 02.04.2013 by Alberta Cuttler So I just started using my DJC4 controller and Traktor Pro software. So the question I have is regarding beat matching and transitioning from one BPM to the next (whether you are going up or down). For example if I start my set with a song at 130 bpm on Deck A and then I want to pick it up and my next rack on Deck B is at 134 bpm I noticed that if I hit the "Sync" button on the controller it will make the bpm of the 2nd to 130. So after I load another track into Deck A again and when I hit sync (even if the bpm on that track is 134) it will go down to 130 bpm again. So song after song I would be stuck at that same bpm. I guess my question is how do you start to transition from low bpm songs to higher bpm songs when you keep using the sync button and it drops the bpm to the lower bpm? What is the best technique or method to do transitions here to make it smooth and pick up the bpm from song to song? I was using a software called MixMeister Fusion which you can drop in tracks after each other (at various bpms) and it would automatically keep them in sync when going from like 134 bpm to 138 bpm. They way it worked was it would start to increase the bpm at the tracking that was ending to start matching the new track, but it did it in a way that kept the mix in sync and you did not realize it. I'd like to achieve the same thing now with my controller and Traktor Pro software. If anyone can give me some pointers that would be great. | |
Logan Hochendoner 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by johney
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Augustine Mitzen 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by ClrCreekRdr
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Logan Hochendoner 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Landsnark
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Alberta Cuttler 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Deck A with 130 bpm track. Pitch level on controller/TP at zero. Sync is off. Deck B with 134 bpm track. Pitch level on controller/TP at zero. Sync is off. Do I need to change anything in Master Clock section...Master and Auto should be light up? So I hit play on Deck A and its playing and I cue up Deck B in my headphones and get it to sync manually by adjusting the pitch level and using the jog wheel to get in sync with Deck A. So in theory when the Deck B is in sync now with Deck A then it should be matching at the same bpm now or not? So if that is true then Deck B should be showing 130 bpm on the display now correct? So then what is the difference if I had just hit the sync button on Deck B from the get go and it too gets the track to same bpm and synced. That's where my confusion seems to be it in that whether we hit the sync button or adjust the pitch manually to sync with Deck A the bpm of deck 2 will need to be around 130 bpm. If I'm not understanding this correctly please let me know. |
Katie Ahmady 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by pbcrazy9898
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Gaynell Rydberg 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
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Stanley Peckman 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
It's not about 4bpm, the OP is being offered a technique that will let him or her do transitions between tracks without sync; again, read the post, 5% pitch at 136 is 6.8 bpm. Therefore apply the logic of moving pitch on both decks and you can achieve larger bpm swings than what has ben suggested. Traktor even makes this easy for you by having a keylock facility. It's a powerful tool when you practice and learn to use it. Am I not explaining this very well? You dont even need to be able to beat match properly since Traktor has the the phase meter. |
Alberta Cuttler 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Should I use any of the methods here or not? |
Stanley Peckman 05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
If you pitch up 2 bpm over 16 beats on the playing deck nobody knows but you. Pitching down on the cue deck will have no audio effect as you haven't brought it in yet. Youtube might be your friend here. Do yourself a favour, put something over the sync button until you don't need it. In my other life, I don't let Graduate Engineers do software calcs until they have proved to me they can do the calcs on a bit of paper with a calculator. Same principle. In the immortal words of Karate Kid "wax on, wax off" |
Alberta Cuttler 05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
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Augustine Mitzen 04.04.2013 | that's what i was getting at. i mix 80-82 bpm hip hop with 175 bpm dnb, it's not that hard |
Merlyn Birchfield 04.04.2013 | Also, that's not such a crazy thing anyway when you consider that 70 x 2 = 140... a little pitch-up on deck A and a little pitch-down on deck B and you could do yourself a nice little "half-time" transition. |
Logan Hochendoner 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by johney
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Augustine Mitzen 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by ClrCreekRdr
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Logan Hochendoner 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Landsnark
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Merlyn Birchfield 04.04.2013 | Maybe I'm missing something, but what does using sync or not using sync have to do with going to a track with significantly different bpm? Sounds like people just want to reinforce their idea of what "real" DJs do or don't do, irrespective of the topic at hand. OP, unless I'm misunderstanding, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. You can jump 5 BPM using whatever method you want... this is why you're a DJ. - Sneak the pitch adjustment in during a breakdown - "Meet in the middle"... if going from 130 to 135 bpm, gradually bring your outgoing track up to 133 and start your incoming track at 133. Then, during or after your transition, slowly bring the BPM up to 135. Or leave it, if you desire. - Don't make such a sudden jump. Go to a 132 bpm track next, then a 134, then your 135. This way it's less jarring. Ultimately it's up to you. Just remember - if it sounds good, it is good! |
Gaynell Rydberg 04.04.2013 | It's not that sync won't sound good. We're just suggesting that he learns how to manually beat match. Track A - 130 BPM; Track B - 136 BPM If Track A is playing, cue B and pitch down B ~4.5% or so. If B is playing, cue A and pitch up ~4.8% or so |
Logan Hochendoner 04.04.2013 | I really dont understand why there is worry about sync between two tracks with 4bpm difference. Its so small.......... Just sync them, I cant see how it wouldnt sound fine. I move between 148 bpm to 70 bpm all the time, thats a whole other issue. Turntable FX, Echo Freeze, backspin, let the track run out, etc. |
Augustine Mitzen 04.04.2013 | i believe you want to paint by numbers too much. pitch up the track playing very slowly. then mix in the faster track. |
Alberta Cuttler 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Deck A with 130 bpm track. Pitch level on controller/TP at zero. Sync is off. Deck B with 134 bpm track. Pitch level on controller/TP at zero. Sync is off. Do I need to change anything in Master Clock section...Master and Auto should be light up? So I hit play on Deck A and its playing and I cue up Deck B in my headphones and get it to sync manually by adjusting the pitch level and using the jog wheel to get in sync with Deck A. So in theory when the Deck B is in sync now with Deck A then it should be matching at the same bpm now or not? So if that is true then Deck B should be showing 130 bpm on the display now correct? So then what is the difference if I had just hit the sync button on Deck B from the get go and it too gets the track to same bpm and synced. That's where my confusion seems to be it in that whether we hit the sync button or adjust the pitch manually to sync with Deck A the bpm of deck 2 will need to be around 130 bpm. If I'm not understanding this correctly please let me know. |
Katie Ahmady 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by pbcrazy9898
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Gaynell Rydberg 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
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Stanley Peckman 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
It's not about 4bpm, the OP is being offered a technique that will let him or her do transitions between tracks without sync; again, read the post, 5% pitch at 136 is 6.8 bpm. Therefore apply the logic of moving pitch on both decks and you can achieve larger bpm swings than what has ben suggested. Traktor even makes this easy for you by having a keylock facility. It's a powerful tool when you practice and learn to use it. Am I not explaining this very well? You dont even need to be able to beat match properly since Traktor has the the phase meter. |
Alberta Cuttler 04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Should I use any of the methods here or not? |
Gaynell Rydberg 05.04.2013 | I don't see why you want to alter the pitch on both decks. 4 BPM isn't that much. Sync is definitely easier, but you should try to learn how to manually beatmatch. |
Stanley Peckman 05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
If you pitch up 2 bpm over 16 beats on the playing deck nobody knows but you. Pitching down on the cue deck will have no audio effect as you haven't brought it in yet. Youtube might be your friend here. Do yourself a favour, put something over the sync button until you don't need it. In my other life, I don't let Graduate Engineers do software calcs until they have proved to me they can do the calcs on a bit of paper with a calculator. Same principle. In the immortal words of Karate Kid "wax on, wax off" |
Alberta Cuttler 05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by anteater32
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Vaughn Malbon 04.04.2013 | Dont forget you need to adjust the Tempo of the Master Deck, that will be the only one where the tempo slider wont be greyed out. And BTW I would learn to beatmatch, but if your new or if you want to do crazy stuff use sync, and dont take any notice of people telling you that they wouldent trust the auto beatgrids, with any form of dance music they will be correct over 90% of the time, just check them out before dropping them in, for most tracks you will be able to see by the waveform that they are fine. |
Earline Boyhan 04.04.2013 | I just loop the track I'm going into. For example: Going from 170 BPM DnB track down to a 160 BPM Juke track. I loop the juke track and then ride the pitch fader. I never use sync, ever. |
Federico Vilas 04.04.2013 | wow, didn't believe my SYNC comment would get that much response. I'm old school. I don't even use BPM in my mix or selection. I have always used my EAR to make sure that everything flows correctly. I have yet to find a program that has perfected the sync feature and/or beatgrids...UNLESS, you want to spend multiple hours setting each and every beatgrid manually... better time could be spent practicing TRANSITIONS and mixes that you can use live. |
Stanley Peckman 03.04.2013 | To the OP; Forget sync - it's holding you back from doing sensible mixing. This isn't paint by numbers with absolute values. 130 - to 136 isn't low to high mixing. Mixing or blending doesn't mean sync from A to B the sooner you forget the button exists the better. Sync only has 1 useful redeeming feature ;- it allows you to bring in a track that starts on a vocal without guess work - thats it. A normal range is +- 5% even 1210's will take you to +- 8%. Between 130 to 136 all you have to do is pitch up 2.3% on the 130 track and pitch down 2 ish % on the 136 tune. Plan out you set, keep your transitions within 5% on each track and practice. <Edit> And plan to have BPM changes, lift the set up & take it down a few times - variety doesn't come with sync. |
Trista Karle 03.04.2013 | I enjoy not even bothering to beatgrid and being able to import a track instantly mix with only my ears if need be |
Logan Hochendoner 03.04.2013 | I believe sync is cool, but I am glad I can beatmatch. I agree with many others here that its an essential skill for a DJ. Time after time SYNC fails me. Songs drift, even new ones (yes I beatgrid my music). I would feel scared to rely on SYNC for anything more than a helper when needed. Like others have said here, pitch fader is your friend. |
Trista Karle 03.04.2013 | Filters and delays help heavily on huge bpm jumps and timing at breakdowns also is key before too much happens at that tempo a lot. I recently played out and was asked to bring the tempo down from 135 to 129 by the following Dj. Being polite I did however I wondered why he was unable to bump to my tempo and down. Found it rather brazen to ask especially since I was not far off. I dropped to 126 an worked back to 129 all with in 3 tracks Mixes a trak at 135 that had a breaks breakdown so when it cut into that delay filter dropped to 126 killed filter let delay off slightly and let the breaks happen then slowly increased to 128 and then next track to 129 done |
Maude Milesky 03.04.2013 | Echo freeze is always a safe bet if your are going from like 130bpm to 95 bpm. It can get annoying though. Its easy right after there is a small buildup to a break like "boom boom boom boom Ppsssssssssshhhhhhhhhwwwwwwwwww." Sometimes you can use the bpm increase in combination with a build up to get the crowd amped! Right before the bass drops make sure the track is playing at its correct bpm. There is no standard way to do it. Just practice and figure out what techniques sound good. Who knows maybe you'll figure something new out. |
Dannie Dimora 03.04.2013 | Wait for just before a drop, or during a vocal breakdown, and pitch it up. Also, don't use master tempo in traktor, that's what's keeping your tracks at 130. |
Trista Karle 03.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by djmetalgear
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Meaghan Machold 03.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by DjLiquitATL
fk that. use the sync button. traktor has an amazing sync feature so if thats what u use, and thats what u paid for, then use it. no shame in sync as long as ur being creative and not just mixing A>B>A when I'm djing in a club, alot of the songs fall in the 128BPM range (obv) and if I get some songs that are in 130, ill mix in song B which is 130BPM synced to song A which is 128BPM... and ill wait for the breakdown in song B (where theres no kick drum/percussion) and thats when I'll bend the fador up to 130. and u can do that going up or down. pretty simple. just practice. there isn't ONE way to do things. it varies for genres of music as well. U cant really just cut out a song and into another in house like u can in hip-hop/break-beat or even slower tempo'd songs like dubstep/trap. |
Federico Vilas 03.04.2013 | stay away from the sync button... I like to use tears/fades/clovers for transitions... it really depends on what type of mix you are going for...an occasional air horn always works...lmao... You can also set a loop before you increase or decrease the speed for transition |
Addie Engbrecht 02.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
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