Native Instruments Ranting...
Native Instruments Ranting... Posted on: 09.12.2013 by Laverna Hansche Is it just me or does NI have some of the shittiest planning, management, and customer service out there?I've used NI products for some time now, from Scratch Pro 1 with X1s through to having an S4 and a Maschine mk1. Moving to production I decided to buy the CRG over to K9U when it went on sale during Thanksgiving and it has left a REALLY foul taste in my mouth about the company as a whole. While they make solid gear and great software, I've not run into such poor planning and lack of customer support (I'd call it poor but I have yet to even get a response from them) in quite a few years. To plan a 50% sale, and not realize that the demand for your product would skyrocket and allow it to run out of stock (currently placing backorders at 2 months out) suggests either that you are just about the stupidest company in existence...or, what I suspect is the truth: you just could give two shits about your customer once the money is in your pocket... Just wondering some of your experiences and I guess venting...all I get on the NI FB page is trolls so maybe there's some hope to have a real discussion here... btw: I ordered my copy on Dec 1st - 3 days into the sale, and with no warnings/out of stock notifications/etc present at the time I ordered - - - which at least now they have those up...I guess... | |
| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
At least you read my last post. If you read my other posts a little more carefully, you shall find what you were looking for. |
| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
Have you read my reply to your first answer at all? |
| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
But if I had to go back to SL, I wouldn't be able to use my new plug-in, so this option would be quite unsatisfying.
There is no NI software that requires the use of OSX 10.9 btw. Go with Mountain Lion instead if you want.
If I had to pay for a new OS to be able to use my newly bought plug-in I probably would be even more mad than after being forced to upgrade to an OS that at least is free. Besides, when I say "I don't want to change my OS as long as everything runs smoothly and if I upgrade, I do so by my own choice and not because some other software company decided to stop supporting my OS without any prior warning" I mean just that and I don't really care what OS I have to ugrade to. The fact that, by the time I had to upgrade, Mavericks had only been out for little over a month was just another factor, not the main reason for my anger. |
| Judi Sissel 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
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| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Well then, who am I to keep arguing on my side... Just some additional information to make things clearer (ok - one little argument included): Controversy first :
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
I'd like to correct that to "Mavericks SEEMS to be stable". Just one month after the initial release chances of bugs or third party programs that have not yet been updated are pretty high. Regarding everything else: I'm exactly the kind of user I was writing about earlier - I usually keep my computers for 3 to 5 years and don't switch the OS unless a new release offers significant improvements in which case I wait a couple of months until the new OS has proven to be stable and all third party developers have updated their programs. So to sum my point up, I was a) annoyed because NI forced me to upgrade my OS (no matter how much sense my reluctance to do so might have made, I just like to make that kind of decision myself and not have them imposed on me by a company that, by now, has received easily more than 1k |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Well then, who am I to keep arguing on my side... Just some additional information to make things clearer (ok - one little argument included): Controversy first :
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
I'd like to correct that to "Mavericks SEEMS to be stable. Just one month after the initial release chances of bugs or third party programs that have not yet been updated are pretty high. Regarding everything else: I'm exactly the kind of user I was writing about earlier - I usually keep my computers for 3 to 5 years and don't switch the OS unless a new release offers significant improvements in which case I wait a couple of months until the new OS has proven to be stable and all third party developers have updated their programs. So to sum my point up, I was a) annoyed because NI forced me to upgrade my OS (no matter how much sense my reluctance to do so might have made, I just like to make that kind of decision myself and not have them imposed on me by a company that, by now, has received easily more than 1k |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
And I'm by far not the only one who believes so... The following figure is taken from this article, which is from April 2nd 2013. 664x606xNorth,P20American,P20OS,P20X,P20Version,P20Distribution,P20,P281,P29.png.pagespeed.ic.v6.jpg It shows that by that time snow leopard was still extremely popular, even though Mountain Lion had been out for about 9 months, and Lion had been release some 20 months earlier. Even if many users jumped to Mavericks real soon after the release, chances are a lot of people are still using SL, which means NI could easily be excluding more than 10% of Mac users from using the latest updates of their software or, like in my case, from using some of their software at all. I know SL is 4 years old, but that's ONLY 4 years. Many people buy a computer and use it for something between 3 and 5 years and don't switch their OS before they buy a new computer. Which means dropping the support for an OS that is just four years old should be a no-go for any company that cares about their customers. And no matter why you believe Apple keeps supporting SL, the fact is that they are and NI isn't. And that's not even my main points yet, that would be: 1. Customers, like me, have no chance of knowing NI stopped supporting SL when e.g. buying any Kontakt instrument. The Cuba page said it required an Intel Mac and Kontakt, I have an Intel Mac and Kontakt and - after purchasing and downloading it - had to find out it didn't work anyways. If the Cuba page had said it required at least 10.7, I might just not have purchased it. 2. Kontakt as well as Cuba USED to work under SL. I wouldn't complain if NI developed their new products (like Maschine 2.0) exclusively for 10.7 or later. But we're not talking about Kontakt 6 which brought us major updates/improvements, it's friggin' Kontakt 5.3 which, as far as I can see, has only one significant difference to 5.2.1: it does not run under SL any more. I don't expect them to develop their new products for a 4 year old OS, but what they did is basically REMOVE a feature, by stopping the SL support in current version without any major upgrade. |
| Delena Katherman 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
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| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
At least you read my last post. If you read my other posts a little more carefully, you shall find what you were looking for. |
| Alphonso Deitchman 12.12.2013 | So that's a "No"? |
| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
Have you read my reply to your first answer at all? |
| Alphonso Deitchman 12.12.2013 | Mavericks being out for a month is irrelevant as there were two other OSes you could have upgraded to. Have you experienced any problems with your free Mavericks that justify all this ranting? |
| Nikole Resende 12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by makar1
But if I had to go back to SL, I wouldn't be able to use my new plug-in, so this option would be quite unsatisfying.
There is no NI software that requires the use of OSX 10.9 btw. Go with Mountain Lion instead if you want.
If I had to pay for a new OS to be able to use my newly bought plug-in I probably would be even more mad than after being forced to upgrade to an OS that at least is free. Besides, when I say "I don't want to change my OS as long as everything runs smoothly and if I upgrade, I do so by my own choice and not because some other software company decided to stop supporting my OS without any prior warning" I mean just that and I don't really care what OS I have to ugrade to. The fact that, by the time I had to upgrade, Mavericks had only been out for little over a month was just another factor, not the main reason for my anger. |
| Judi Sissel 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by jdownesbaird
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| Alphonso Deitchman 11.12.2013 | Why not make a backup of SL, and try out Mavericks for free? There is no NI software that requires the use of OSX 10.9 btw. Go with Mountain Lion instead if you want. |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Well then, who am I to keep arguing on my side... Just some additional information to make things clearer (ok - one little argument included): Controversy first :
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
I'd like to correct that to "Mavericks SEEMS to be stable". Just one month after the initial release chances of bugs or third party programs that have not yet been updated are pretty high. Regarding everything else: I'm exactly the kind of user I was writing about earlier - I usually keep my computers for 3 to 5 years and don't switch the OS unless a new release offers significant improvements in which case I wait a couple of months until the new OS has proven to be stable and all third party developers have updated their programs. So to sum my point up, I was a) annoyed because NI forced me to upgrade my OS (no matter how much sense my reluctance to do so might have made, I just like to make that kind of decision myself and not have them imposed on me by a company that, by now, has received easily more than 1k |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
Well then, who am I to keep arguing on my side... Just some additional information to make things clearer (ok - one little argument included): Controversy first :
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
I'd like to correct that to "Mavericks SEEMS to be stable. Just one month after the initial release chances of bugs or third party programs that have not yet been updated are pretty high. Regarding everything else: I'm exactly the kind of user I was writing about earlier - I usually keep my computers for 3 to 5 years and don't switch the OS unless a new release offers significant improvements in which case I wait a couple of months until the new OS has proven to be stable and all third party developers have updated their programs. So to sum my point up, I was a) annoyed because NI forced me to upgrade my OS (no matter how much sense my reluctance to do so might have made, I just like to make that kind of decision myself and not have them imposed on me by a company that, by now, has received easily more than 1k |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.12.2013 | All valid points mate and I am in no way excusing the way NI dropped SL on some products because I believe they handled it badly (yes I said that). Your points about Kontakt etc are valid and I admit to not taking them into consideration even though I work on Kontakt Instruments I often revert to type (which is Traktor). But, my over arching point is that, you buy a Mac, you know there will be OS updates and that they will discontinue support for previous OS... that is Apples way and it's hard even impossible for developers to keep supporting each OS. Just believe how angry people were when the Apple changed to Intel and no-one could install Traktor Pro1 on those newish PowerBooks. This thing with SL is hocus-pocus in my opinion. It's Tiger all over again. When there's a longer break between OS like there was with SL people become fixated about it's reliability. I did the same with Tiger and I was reluctant to upgrade. Since then and as I have been involved with NI testing I just jump straight to the next OS no question. There hasn't been a bad OSX update. Yeah some have brought issues like the AirPort Extreme glitching issue but these thing would happen with incremental updates anyway. Despite this hankering for SL that people have I still see no need to stick with it. Mavericks is stable as was Lion and ML. I am yet to see any evidence to the contrary and my real life experience using Traktor 3 - 6 gigs a week with zero crashes in 9 years simply reinforces this. The only time I can say that Apple have really screwed things up for me is with iOS7 and yeah that was a turd for a Traktor DJ app user. Just my perspective, I ain't arguing dude. |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
And I'm by far not the only one who believes so... The following figure is taken from this article, which is from April 2nd 2013. 664x606xNorth,P20American,P20OS,P20X,P20Version,P20Distribution,P20,P281,P29.png.pagespeed.ic.v6.jpg It shows that by that time snow leopard was still extremely popular, even though Mountain Lion had been out for about 9 months, and Lion had been release some 20 months earlier. Even if many users jumped to Mavericks real soon after the release, chances are a lot of people are still using SL, which means NI could easily be excluding more than 10% of Mac users from using the latest updates of their software or, like in my case, from using some of their software at all. I know SL is 4 years old, but that's ONLY 4 years. Many people buy a computer and use it for something between 3 and 5 years and don't switch their OS before they buy a new computer. Which means dropping the support for an OS that is just four years old should be a no-go for any company that cares about their customers. And no matter why you believe Apple keeps supporting SL, the fact is that they are and NI isn't. And that's not even my main points yet, that would be: 1. Customers, like me, have no chance of knowing NI stopped supporting SL when e.g. buying any Kontakt instrument. The Cuba page said it required an Intel Mac and Kontakt, I have an Intel Mac and Kontakt and - after purchasing and downloading it - had to find out it didn't work anyways. If the Cuba page had said it required at least 10.7, I might just not have purchased it. 2. Kontakt as well as Cuba USED to work under SL. I wouldn't complain if NI developed their new products (like Maschine 2.0) exclusively for 10.7 or later. But we're not talking about Kontakt 6 which brought us major updates/improvements, it's friggin' Kontakt 5.3 which, as far as I can see, has only one significant difference to 5.2.1: it does not run under SL any more. I don't expect them to develop their new products for a 4 year old OS, but what they did is basically REMOVE a feature, by stopping the SL support in current version without any major upgrade. |
| Delena Katherman 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.12.2013 | SL is only supported by Apple so that users can it to transition to the latest OS. It is a legacy OS and NI dropped support for it as it is 4 years old. I see no reason to stay on SL. It's out of date and I believe it's unfair to expect software developers, especially ones with large product lines to develop on multiple OS's when they are not even fully supported by the Apple. |
| Nikole Resende 11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Chelan
First thing I got myself in this years' Thanksgiving Sale was Discovery Series Cuba. The sytem requirements for Cuba said "Intel mac and Kontakt (Player)", without specifying any particular version of the latter. Since I have an Intel mac as well as Kontakt installed I thought I should be fine... When I had installed Cuba and tried to run it within Kontakt, I suddenly got a notification that Cuba required a newer version of Kontakt to run. I'm almost 100% sure my version is at least less than a year old so it's a little surprising it's not supported any more, but hey, no big deal, I'll just update again... When trying to install the update I got another notification saying the update needed at least OS X 10.7 to run... Since I was still running Snow Leopard (10.6) I found myself forced to chose between the options of a) not being able to use my newly bought plug-in or b) update my whole system (which was running perfectly good and stable, and I hate to change systems that work) to a new OS that had been released just over a month earlier. I haven't experienced any major problems with mavericks yet, expect for two crashes of Live which may or may not have been linked to the new OS. Talking about Live... 9.1, which is the first version that is stable under Mavericks, was released only 10 days before the NI sale. If it had taken Ableton a little longer to release 9.1 I would have had to chose between a new plug-in that's not running and a DAW that's probably not stable.... TL;DR I had to update because NI decided to a) not support versions of their own software (Kontakt) that are less than 12 months old and b) not support an OS, that in its latest Version (10.6.8) is little over 2 years old (and still supported by Apple) any longer. |
| Cira Ditz 11.12.2013 | Tbh I also was dismayed about having to leave Snow Leopard and update to Mavericks for Maschine 2.0 I didn't want to leave that (or get latest itunes) but eventually gave in and started updating everything. Turns out I actually was rather fine with them, so much so same evening I updated to iOS7 for my 4s which I'd also vowed not to do and apart from a couple of icons I love that so much too. I know that having to go to a new OS tho there's many good reasons why you'd prefer to wait but happily this has worked good for me and am loving Machine 2.0 even tho have only scratched surface of the new things |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.12.2013 | I have said this a hundred times before, there is only one place to get help with NI products and that is with NI support and/or communicating with a Moderator on the community
. You may as well write a letter to the Pope for all the good it will do posting on DJTT or the NI Facebook. It is totally beyond me why people don't use the NI community if they cannot get anywhere with Support. NI Support is no worse or better than any other product company. I hear horror stories and praise in equal measure. On the point of Mavericks. If I read between the lines (maybe I'm wrong) you have an older Mac with Leopard that could not be updated to Mountain Lion so you had to go to Mavericks??? And this is the fault of NI...how??? If I misunderstood then I am happy to be corrected. |
| Judi Sissel 10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Chelan
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| Chuck Peretto 10.12.2013 |
TCMuc
Even though I'm somewhat mad at NI myself (for forcing me to upgrade my OS to mavericks which has only been out for a little more than a month), I believe you're overlooking some important points here..
DarioJ
Could be worse... You could of bought a DB:Series mixer. As of late, NI is at least "active" compared to A&H. |
| Judi Sissel 10.12.2013 | Could be worse... You could of bought a DB:Series mixer. As of late, NI is at least "active" compared to A&H. |
| Addie Engbrecht 10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJILLY
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| Janeen Tarricone 10.12.2013 | Question: Did you open a support ticket or did you just go to their Facebook page? The people running their Facebook page are not the same people that run their sales dept. Hell they might have even outsourced the management of their social marketing to some other company. I wouldn't ever expect to get anything but spam from their FB account. As TC said, this happens. And this can happen with any company. If it really bothers you, then rant with your wallet and stop buying NI software. If they haven't shipped yet, you can likely cancel your order. Personally, I wouldn't though. It was a great deal and once you actually have it in your hands, you'll totally forget that it took a couple weeks longer to get it. |
| Nikole Resende 10.12.2013 | Even though I'm somewhat mad at NI myself (for forcing me to upgrade my OS to mavericks which has only been out for a little more than a month), I believe you're overlooking some important points here..
Originally Posted by DJILLY
But no matter how elaborate these models are, in the end they are little more than guesses. Kind of like the weather forecast. They are quite reliable most of the time, but can be completely off every now and then. Maybe they did not expect so many people going for Komplete Ultimate but rather for the cheaper 'normal' Komplete and now ran out of stock of Ultimate while they're sitting on huge piles of unsold boxes of the latter. I ordered the Komplete 9 Upgrade (not ultimate) about the same time as you did and received it just a couple of days later. Regarding this:
[...]and lack of customer support (I'd call it poor but I have yet to even get a response from them)[...]
Just wondering some of your experiences and I guess venting...all I get on the NI FB page is trolls so maybe there's some hope to have a real discussion here... btw: I ordered my copy on Dec 1st - 3 days into the sale, and with no warnings/out of stock notifications/etc present at the time I ordered - - - which at least now they have those up...I guess... Have you tried calling them? Another possibility would be to go to the NI Forum on their homepage and try to find help there. |
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