Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| Whats the deal with CDJs? Aside from the obvious fact that they're still the industry standard in clubs, which I get... Whats the appeal? For instance why would a new DJ go for the vastly bulkier and more expensive CDJs with an external mixer over say an all in one digital controller? | Awilda Frink
15.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by no_rex4u
i went from a controller setup->cd player setup-> modular setup
you feel the music a lot more with cd players ( i didn't have pioneers so i won't say CDJ's), but my main issue with cd players is if you are throwing a house party and you want your friends to DJ as well, most of them won't know how to use CD players, so you end up being SOL.
your audience can care less about the gear
you play on, they just want to hear the music (main reason why i didn't fork out pio-money) most CD players now can also be integrated through your software, whether they are Reloop, Pio, Denon, AA, NUmark, all of them can double as controllers. if you do go the CD route, i suggest you buy a mixer with a 4x4 sound card (either separate or built in) that way you can be the most versatile you can. I had a denon mixer with an input matrix, allowed me to run traktor on cahnnels 2,3 and normal cd's on channels 1,4
If you cant rock a party with Two CDJS, two USb Sticks, and a mixer, you aint a dj!!!!!! | Dung Domingus
14.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Chi-town DJTT gathering at Double Door has just been announced unofficially
I'd be down | Vikki Falkenrath
13.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at
hahaha some people say the more you have the more you want | Lakeesha Storman
12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at
This is truth | Hellen Mindrup
12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daniboy
Chicago is a great city, but Champaign is better...... girls there are amazing!
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at | Addie Mardesich
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daniboy
Chicago is a great city, but Champaign is better...... girls there are amazing!
Chicago>All | Addie Mardesich
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
I work down the street at Lake & Damen lol
PM me info/flyer and I will man.
I second this! | Hellen Mindrup
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
Haha, Come see me at the double door next month...
I work down the street at Lake & Damen lol
PM me info/flyer and I will man. | Awilda Frink
15.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by no_rex4u
i went from a controller setup->cd player setup-> modular setup
you feel the music a lot more with cd players ( i didn't have pioneers so i won't say CDJ's), but my main issue with cd players is if you are throwing a house party and you want your friends to DJ as well, most of them won't know how to use CD players, so you end up being SOL.
your audience can care less about the gear
you play on, they just want to hear the music (main reason why i didn't fork out pio-money) most CD players now can also be integrated through your software, whether they are Reloop, Pio, Denon, AA, NUmark, all of them can double as controllers. if you do go the CD route, i suggest you buy a mixer with a 4x4 sound card (either separate or built in) that way you can be the most versatile you can. I had a denon mixer with an input matrix, allowed me to run traktor on cahnnels 2,3 and normal cd's on channels 1,4
If you cant rock a party with Two CDJS, two USb Sticks, and a mixer, you aint a dj!!!!!! | Awilda Frink
15.12.2013 | I use CDJS for one reason, and one reason only: They are more fun (If your playing off usb sticks, burning cds aint fun) | Hellen Mindrup
15.12.2013 | Just waiting on the info from Mister Gibson…... | Dung Domingus
14.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Chi-town DJTT gathering at Double Door has just been announced unofficially
I'd be down | Vikki Falkenrath
13.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at
hahaha some people say the more you have the more you want | Lakeesha Storman
12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at
This is truth | Hellen Mindrup
12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daniboy
Chicago is a great city, but Champaign is better...... girls there are amazing!
Location: Brazil....
Now that's where the amazing women are at | Addie Mardesich
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Daniboy
Chicago is a great city, but Champaign is better...... girls there are amazing!
Chicago>All | Vikki Falkenrath
11.12.2013 | Chicago is a great city, but Champaign is better...... girls there are amazing! | Hellen Mindrup
11.12.2013 | Win | Klara Kinnebrew
11.12.2013 | I got the party favors.
*thread Jacked* | Hellen Mindrup
11.12.2013 | Chi-town DJTT gathering at Double Door has just been announced unofficially | Addie Mardesich
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
I work down the street at Lake & Damen lol
PM me info/flyer and I will man.
I second this! | Hellen Mindrup
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
Haha, Come see me at the double door next month...
I work down the street at Lake & Damen lol
PM me info/flyer and I will man. | Klara Kinnebrew
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Kwal
Please share with us what those new and innovative ways of DJ'ing are lol
Haha, Come see me at the double door next month... | Luciano Hyppolite
12.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
while your busy touching the music and taking up your time and mental capacity to do all that stuff manually, I'll be working on new, innovative things that no one is doing...
I kid, I kid. Well, kind of.
I'm not a purist, I have an ableton live act prepared and it HUGE LOADS of fun, but at the same time HUGE LOADS OF work. for regular commercial gigs I just limit myself to classic djing | Hellen Mindrup
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
while your busy touching the music and taking up your time and mental capacity to do all that stuff manually, I'll be working on new, innovative things that no one is doing...
I kid, I kid. Well, kind of.
Please share with us what those new and innovative ways of DJ'ing are lol | Chandra Lean
11.12.2013 | i went from a controller setup->cd player setup-> modular setup
you feel the music a lot more with cd players ( i didn't have pioneers so i won't say CDJ's), but my main issue with cd players is if you are throwing a house party and you want your friends to DJ as well, most of them won't know how to use CD players, so you end up being SOL.
your audience can care less about the gear
you play on, they just want to hear the music (main reason why i didn't fork out pio-money) most CD players now can also be integrated through your software, whether they are Reloop, Pio, Denon, AA, NUmark, all of them can double as controllers. if you do go the CD route, i suggest you buy a mixer with a 4x4 sound card (either separate or built in) that way you can be the most versatile you can. I had a denon mixer with an input matrix, allowed me to run traktor on cahnnels 2,3 and normal cd's on channels 1,4 | Klara Kinnebrew
11.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by alchemy
Personally, I just can't "feel" the track playing with controllers, thats why I am progressively expanding my setup to a cdj style. Now i try to emulate the cdjs on traktor, I hide every bit of information available, I do not use sync and beatmatch manually with my Nanokotnrol and launchpad. OMG the difference, I actually feel that I am doing something!
I just cant wait to get my hand on a pair of cdjs! I want to be able to touch the music. not just pressing cue pointsss.
while your busy touching the music and taking up your time and mental capacity to do all that stuff manually, I'll be working on new, innovative things that no one is doing...
I kid, I kid. Well, kind of. | Lakeesha Storman
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by alchemy
Personally, I just can't "feel" the track playing with controllers, thats why I am progressively expanding my setup to a cdj style. Now i try to emulate the cdjs on traktor, I hide every bit of information available, I do not use sync and beatmatch manually with my Nanokotnrol and launchpad. OMG the difference, I actually feel that I am doing something!
I just cant wait to get my hand on a pair of cdjs! I want to be able to touch the music. not just pressing cue pointsss.
It's a world different, but IMO completely worth it. In fact, I'm going to go feel some vinyl.. | Hellen Mindrup
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by alchemy
Personally, I just can't "feel" the track playing with controllers, thats why I am progressively expanding my setup to a cdj style. Now i try to emulate the cdjs on traktor, I hide every bit of information available, I do not use sync and beatmatch manually with my Nanokotnrol and launchpad. OMG the difference, I actually feel that I am doing something!
I just cant wait to get my hand on a pair of cdjs! I want to be able to touch the music. not just pressing cue pointsss.
| Luciano Hyppolite
10.12.2013 | Personally, I just can't "feel" the track playing with controllers, thats why I am progressively expanding my setup to a cdj style. Now i try to emulate the cdjs on traktor, I hide every bit of information available, I do not use sync and beatmatch manually with my Nanokotnrol and launchpad. OMG the difference, I actually feel that I am doing something!
I just cant wait to get my hand on a pair of cdjs! I want to be able to touch the music. not just pressing cue pointsss. | Addie Mardesich
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by mrdorianjames
Shishdisma, I agree with much of what you said besides the difference between a pioneer setup and a controller setup.
Although, pioneer setup is a streamlined and more reliable workflow, it still is about as different as a PlayStation is to a gaming PC. Both DJ setups are digital(unless you hook up your Pion setup analog,which lessens the quality), both use an operating system. pioneer's have two operating systems,one for the cdj and one for the mixer. Anything that needs firmware has a OS,However streamlined it is. The separation of the mixer and the cdj adds an extra unnecessary interface that isn't apparent in the controller. They both use RAM,(maybe not as plentiful in a pioneer setup). Even a old CD player has Random Access Memory for keeping it from skipping. CDJs use it for that same function as well as keeping hot cues and loading tracks from a flash drive for easy access. The mixer needs it for Delay effects if not for a handful of other functions that I'm not believeing of. Yes it's more reliable and less of a headache but the difference is very little.
The rule of thumb when dealing with the question of digital vs analog is to make the conversion as few times as you can. I don't believe this knowledge has escaped Pioneer. If controllers aren't the way things are going then Pioneer wouldn't be spending so much effort on going the controller route.
I have a hard time seeing beyond the fact that while i still use vinyl, Everybody else has gone from CDJs to controllers. Even some rather big clubs have started using Pioneer controllers and Serato. I know very little have empty tables for "BYOG", but even if DJ's in Ibiza are still using High-end CDJs, wedding DJ's and Top 40 club DJs are still going for controllers for convenience sake. This is unfortunately a large portion of the market. Most Clubs aren't that mindful of how the music plays as long as people buy drinks at the bar. Just believe of all the places that use those digital jukeboxes. I've worked for a business that put in a majority of the sound systems in bars and clubs in chicago. Rarely did they care about the means to which the music is played as long as the club is hopping. I also know that pioneers have very little profit margin compared to lesser brands and most of the bars and clubs won't care if they buy a gemini turntable or pair of techs as long as the money they make from the club is greater than the cost of repairing or replacing lesser gear
. The main reason they would buy a pioneer over something else of equal durability was because it makes their club look more top dollar. They could buy a Denon which is just as reliable but it doesn't have as much recognition. Just like how many clubs that carry Cristal champagne when there are plenty other great champagnes(cough..cough..Clicquot),but they take cristall because of it's notoriety.
Id have to disagree with some of this, literally every club in Chicago i've played at and been at has a pioneer setup, minus a few places in the burbs where its less of a club and more of a bar. Also this is awesome, I like using the controllers and always bring mine but CDJs and Pio setup is just so much fun. You can have a billion effects on traktor, serato etc but even in my case as well as alot of other people you just get a brain fart because your trying to do to much with all you have available when really the best effect you have available is just downright good mixing. But going back to the argument that controllers will or wont take up to much space, Id say controller would take up more, if you have 3 to 5 DJ's playing in one evening
with a whole bagload of controllers, itd be a complete evening
mare to setup and disassemble, pio is so seamless, I can play with HID on traktor with my X1 n F1 and the guy after me can come and use his CD's or USB drive, I unplug a couple cable and bam thats it. Plus I love the big buttons on CDJs those little ass cue point buttons just irritate me lol. So whats next Pio vs A&H? | Kenda Raedel
10.12.2013 | clarification/correction:
most things that have firmware require an operating system. Computer peripherals may have firmware but they don't have an OS. However,they do need a operating system to function. | Rolanda Clodfelder
10.12.2013 |
They could buy a Denon which is just as reliable but it doesn't have as much recognition. Just like how many clubs that carry Cristal champagne when there are plenty other great champagnes(cough..cough..Clicquot),but they take cristall because of it's notoriety.
Denon DID have as much (and more) recognition for many many years - they simply dropped the ball when the CDJ500 arrived on the market and continued with their antiquated rack mount units rather than getting something that would be accepted by the turntable DJ's into clubs as a replacement. The 500s/700 arrived and every club DJ wanted them in the DJ box and new clubs were installing them instead of the 2000f / 2500 rack mount systems of denon (and for good reason).
The Denon was better in some ways, but by the time it came to market the much more substantial "turntable"size CDJ1000 had been released in the wild to DJ's who already were comfortable with the Pionner Workflow. DJ's had already adopted the CDJ as the standard - bit like Vestax turntables, which were/are rare to find in clubs despite being better in many many ways than techs. | Kenda Raedel
11.12.2013 | Shishdisma, I agree with much of what you said besides the difference between a pioneer setup and a controller setup.
Although, pioneer setup is a streamlined and more reliable workflow, it still is about as different as a PlayStation is to a gaming PC. Both DJ setups are digital(unless you hook up your Pion setup analog,which lessens the quality), both use an operating system. pioneer's have two operating systems,one for the cdj and one for the mixer. Anything that needs firmware has a OS,However streamlined it is. The separation of the mixer and the cdj adds an extra unnecessary interface that isn't apparent in the controller. They both use RAM,(maybe not as plentiful in a pioneer setup). Even a old CD player has Random Access Memory for keeping it from skipping. CDJs use it for that same function as well as keeping hot cues and loading tracks from a flash drive for easy access. The mixer needs it for Delay effects if not for a handful of other functions that I'm not believeing of. Yes it's more reliable and less of a headache but the difference is very little.
The rule of thumb when dealing with the question of digital vs analog is to make the conversion as few times as you can. I don't believe this knowledge has escaped Pioneer. If controllers aren't the way things are going then Pioneer wouldn't be spending so much effort on going the controller route.
I have a hard time seeing beyond the fact that while i still use vinyl, Everybody else has gone from CDJs to controllers. Even some rather big clubs have started using Pioneer controllers and Serato. I know very little have empty tables for "BYOG", but even if DJ's in Ibiza are still using High-end CDJs, wedding DJ's and Top 40 club DJs are still going for controllers for convenience sake. This is unfortunately a large portion of the market. Most Clubs aren't that mindful of how the music plays as long as people buy drinks at the bar. Just believe of all the places that use those digital jukeboxes. I've worked for a business that put in a majority of the sound systems in bars and clubs in chicago. Rarely did they care about the means to which the music is played as long as the club is hopping. I also know that pioneers have very little profit margin compared to lesser brands and most of the bars and clubs won't care if they buy a gemini turntable or pair of techs as long as the money they make from the club is greater than the cost of repairing or replacing lesser gear
. The main reason they would buy a pioneer over something else of equal durability was because it makes their club look more top dollar. They could buy a Denon which is just as reliable but it doesn't have as much recognition. Just like how many clubs that carry Cristal champagne when there are plenty other great champagnes(cough..cough..Clicquot),but they take cristall because of it's notoriety. | Klara Kinnebrew
10.12.2013 | *sits back with bowl of popcorn* | Shan Bauerly
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
Given the choice between "infinite possibilities" after a long list of headaches, random gear
, points of failure, excessive preparation, and general management grindings; and a reliable setup that provides 95% of the options, works exactly the the same way every time you turn it on, only requires you to turn it on, and continues to turn on and work indefinitely until it's physically broken, you can kinda see why the only people that strongly cling to the former are the ones dependent on it and afraid of the latter.
Preach! | Nancey Inderlied
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by mrdorianjames
I'm confused, Why would a controller take up more room than a set of CDJs and a mixer? that doesn't make sense to me. I agree that CDJ's are smaller than a TT/mixer setup but controllers are rather small compared to most Pio CDJ Setups.
Your laptop, stand, and controller/all-in-one/modular pile aren't semi-permenantly installed in the venue you're playing at, CDJs are. "BYOG" clubs are a bit of an offshoot, and create kafikaesque evening
mares with the various production companies that contract with them. My local college club is such a venue, and in the few years I've been here, the sheer amount of clusterfucking that empty table has created would probably monetarily be worth an installed CDJ setup. But the club just offloads those costs and headaches on a case by case basis to the various production companies that contract with them, so they really don't give a shit.
I believe CDJs are not much different than a controller anyway. I know very few people who use CDJs with CDs. They are just like controllers without a Computer—all-in-one computer vs. a Tower Desktop, Modular vs unified. Nothing more than a difference of philosophy.
This is a bit of a misconception, barring obvious defects, dedicated hardware is always going to be easier to manage, more responsive, and much, much more reliable than the layers of interface that a software setup goes through. Contrary to popular belief, modern CDJs and mixers aren't just "controllers with computers built into them," they use discrete processing components and RAM, with a minimalist OS running on top of it to manage files. While mixers use discrete converters and a DSP core to handle audio processing. It's a completely different, and generally more bulletproof, way of handling processing.
Software uses a program written in an operating system to emulate the way that discrete hardware operates, and then busses the result over something to the effect of 3-4 different interfaces until it hits a final outboard DAC. There's layers upon layers of code, emulation, and bussing involved in software setups that hardware just doesn't have to deal with.
I believe Controllers are pretty much the future but the participating companies in the industry are pulling each other's hair for becoming the "industry standard". Because it's still unclear how things will turn out, certain companies are betting on the different philosophies.
This is the kind of thing that's holding "digital" DJing back in entirety. Given infinite options, a bell curve distribution will only produce a very small amount of truly superior options, while the (68%) overwhelming majority will be really mediocre offerings. Companies are becoming overly focused on developing products that people might want, products that might take off, products that people want to buy, and forgetting to target what people truly need. Especially in a professional setting...
The problem is that a lot of these custom setups are very problematic for setting up for the evening
and can be alienating for DJ's to use if they don't have that particular set up. Even the same hardware can use different mappings making it difficult or frustrating for visiting DJs.
A lot of people who never leave their bedrooms, sell said technology, or make money from writing about things like this don't really seem to understand that this isn't a mitigating factor, its a complete DOA non-starter. Marketing departments and enthusiasts like to skate around this little detail, trying to downplay it like it's some minor inconvenience to be overcome.
Given the choice between "infinite possibilities" after a long list of headaches, random gear
, points of failure, excessive preparation, and general management grindings; and a reliable setup that provides 95% of the options, works exactly the the same way every time you turn it on, only requires you to turn it on, and continues to turn on and work indefinitely until it's physically broken, you can kinda see why the only people that strongly cling to the former are the ones dependent on it and afraid of the latter. | Lawana Mileto
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by mrdorianjames
I'm confused, Why would a controller take up more room than a set of CDJs and a mixer? that doesn't make sense to me. I agree that CDJ's are smaller than a TT/mixer setup but controllers are rather small compared to most Pio CDJ Setups.
Modular systems allow DJs to find a unique workflow that makes them appear/sound more distinct.
Did you actually read what I put? I said that unless your playing in big clubs, DJ booths aren't the biggest, and with a full set up of either CDJ/TT's and mixer, there isn't really that much room for a controller unless you stack it on top of the gear.
Controllers will live alongside CDJ's for a long long time, I cannot see any club moving over to having a booth that only had a controller. It just won't happen. CDJ's will continue to be the club standard.
I don't get how a controller can make you sound more distinct, at the end of the day what will seperate you from everyone else is the music you play. | Kenda Raedel
10.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by amadeus
The size of controllers is more of an issue than size of CDJ's and a mixer, unless your a mobile DJ where it could be a plus.
Personally I've never really enjoyed playing on CDJ's, do occasionally play on them but only the odd track, but I would rather play on CDJ's than a controller.
I'm confused, Why would a controller take up more room than a set of CDJs and a mixer? that doesn't make sense to me. I agree that CDJ's are smaller than a TT/mixer setup but controllers are rather small compared to most Pio CDJ Setups.
I believe CDJs are not much different than a controller anyway. I know very few people who use CDJs with CDs. They are just like controllers without a Computer | Dung Domingus
09.12.2013 |
Originally Posted by Student
I get what your saying, but the harsh truth is that if you want to be taken serious and want regular club gigs or even at festivals you'll need to learn how to operate CDJ's.
To be taken seriously these days you need to learn how to dj AND produce. There are plenty of big name acts using strictly controllers or controllers and a mixer with software. The wealth of modular controllers and stands makes the limited dj booth space point moot. Cdjs are probably the easiest medium to transfer beatmatching and mixing skills learned elsewhere (tts, controllers, laptop keyboard) and they just feel better than controllers imo. Feel is not always the most important factor in a dj setup though. Workflow, consistency, and ergonomics can take more priority. I don't believe learning to use cdjs or manual beatmatching is a requirement for playing clubs, but I do believe they are fairly basic skills to learn and can make things much easier in the long run. |
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