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New Mac Pro

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New Mac Pro Posted on: 10.06.2013 by Carlee Pickard I know there's a thread on the Apple Keynote thing, but this thread is dedicated only to the discussion of the new Mac Pro. I'm definitely interested and am seriously believeing about picking one up. I'd love to hear everyones thoughts on it. http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
Shawn Vanhaitsma 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon 1tb ssds are pointless in a consumer environment, which in turn makes the 1tb in his rig mean either: 2 512gb ssds in RAID, or a 1tb revodrive-style pcie ssd. Both of these offerings are on par with apple's, which is, on paper, capable of 1.25gbps/1gbps r/w speeds. On paper: read= not real marketing hype You're getting max. 1gbps reads from that thing, and even that is far fetched good on ya sir, 128 OS Drive, Two 512 Samsung 840 Pros. 1 TB PCIE was rolling in around 3 grans.. no thanks lol
Shawn Vanhaitsma 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon Nah not happening. A 6core xeon is what, $1500? That makes $3k just for the cpus, incl. 2 GPUs, ecc memory which ain't cheap, and the ssd (i'll have a good laugh when they will put a 128gb ssd as standard :P ) Plus the design, i believe you're looking at at least 6.5k for a 12core model... Also, no dual 8cores here, so 12cores max. Apple probably did so because of the max tdp that the "shared cooling core" or whatever it's called can handle. 2.8, 8 Core Intel E5 cost me 1200. The 6 core 2.4s can be had for 400 to 500 dollars. When I priced the Pro before the release, two lowest end 6 cores and standard setup put it at 5,800 bucks. They also announce it as 12, but I can bet money they will ahve 16 for the ugprade option. They seem to advertise as whatever their base model will sell as. They are using the E5 line, and only the lowest flag ship models are 6 cores.
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by balakoth Mac Pros are always a normal base price of 5k without displays. I full expect it to be the same for their base 12 core model (the lowest end FirePro really isnt that expensive.. Cheaper than my 7970 Reference card). With their 16 core models fully decked out Im sure reaching 30k easily as any machine could. I Nah not happening. A 6core xeon is what, $1500? That makes $3k just for the cpus, incl. 2 GPUs, ecc memory which ain't cheap, and the ssd (i'll have a good laugh when they will put a 128gb ssd as standard :P ) Plus the design, i believe you're looking at at least 6.5k for a 12core model... Also, no dual 8cores here, so 12cores max. Apple probably did so because of the max tdp that the "shared cooling core" or whatever it's called can handle.
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 You could also put a pair of gaming graphics cards in a TB enclosure if that's what you wanted, but again it makes no sense to buy any Mac for gaming. The SSD in that rig would have to be swapped out for a PCIE version too for it to keep up. 1tb ssds are pointless in a consumer environment, which in turn makes the 1tb in his rig mean either: 2 512gb ssds in RAID, or a 1tb revodrive-style pcie ssd. Both of these offerings are on par with apple's, which is, on paper, capable of 1.25gbps/1gbps r/w speeds. On paper: read= not real marketing hype You're getting max. 1gbps reads from that thing, and even that is far fetched
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by padi_04 You can always start another thread to continue it. If you do, let me know and i'll move the posts over there. Don't worry i was joking
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50 That's kind of my point. With a custom built computer you have the ability to go between gaming AND firepro if you ever need it. FirePro excels where gaming is sluggish and vice versa. All the rest, a custom built computer will always demolish that Mac. I'm sure if you swapped out balakoth's GPUs with FirePros it would annihilate the Mac Pro. Technically Slvr if i took out the water cooling, I could do two FirePros high end and two 750 PCEI SSDs for the same price I built it for :P So in the end, I will win on price to performance since I would then be using the exact same hardware, except my motherboard which would be an ASUS Server board.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 You could also put a pair of gaming graphics cards in a TB enclosure if that's what you wanted, but again it makes no sense to buy any Mac for gaming. The SSD in that rig would have to be swapped out for a PCIE version too for it to keep up. Because they changed their format? Again before their new FirePro setup, they offered high end gaming consumer cards as standard in their setups, you could upgrade to a better option, for double the price you could pay for such an item on newegg per say though. And yes I would, but not beat their performance. They arent putting $1600 PCIE SSD drives in there my friend. And even at that price point you are getting maximum 810 read/write.. which is still not the 1250 they want to claim at this point. Real world statistics trump marketing hype every day, everything they list is the Pure maximum the machine could push, and yet most likely never will. (Unless you are using it as a Folding Machine.) But when hardware actually needs speeds faster than 6 GB / Sata 3 PCIE will be an easy upgrade. But if you want to nitpick, the extra money I would have spent on going PCIE in the first place would be minimal, but a complete waste for my audio production applications the computer serves at this point. Mac Pros are always a normal base price of 5k without displays. I full expect it to be the same for their base 12 core model (the lowest end FirePro really isnt that expensive.. Cheaper than my 7970 Reference card). With their 16 core models fully decked out Im sure reaching 30k easily as any machine could. In the end you pay for the design, the brand, and the operating system. Apple isnt designing anything special in these machines besides the chasis, the manufacturers already putting this hardware in "professional" windows and linux based systems have been doing it for awhile and at a lower price point. I have nothing against Apple per say except price. I would have probably bought a Mac Pro instead had they not wanted to charge me double price for literally every upgrade. Oh and probably the fact OSX feels weird no matter how many times i try to use it again lol. Linux and Windows for to long
Nedra Fresneda 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon padi party breaker You can always start another thread to continue it. If you do, let me know and i'll move the posts over there.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon 1tb ssds are pointless in a consumer environment, which in turn makes the 1tb in his rig mean either: 2 512gb ssds in RAID, or a 1tb revodrive-style pcie ssd. Both of these offerings are on par with apple's, which is, on paper, capable of 1.25gbps/1gbps r/w speeds. On paper: read= not real marketing hype You're getting max. 1gbps reads from that thing, and even that is far fetched good on ya sir, 128 OS Drive, Two 512 Samsung 840 Pros. 1 TB PCIE was rolling in around 3 grans.. no thanks lol
Shawn Vanhaitsma 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon Nah not happening. A 6core xeon is what, $1500? That makes $3k just for the cpus, incl. 2 GPUs, ecc memory which ain't cheap, and the ssd (i'll have a good laugh when they will put a 128gb ssd as standard :P ) Plus the design, i believe you're looking at at least 6.5k for a 12core model... Also, no dual 8cores here, so 12cores max. Apple probably did so because of the max tdp that the "shared cooling core" or whatever it's called can handle. 2.8, 8 Core Intel E5 cost me 1200. The 6 core 2.4s can be had for 400 to 500 dollars. When I priced the Pro before the release, two lowest end 6 cores and standard setup put it at 5,800 bucks. They also announce it as 12, but I can bet money they will ahve 16 for the ugprade option. They seem to advertise as whatever their base model will sell as. They are using the E5 line, and only the lowest flag ship models are 6 cores.
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by balakoth Mac Pros are always a normal base price of 5k without displays. I full expect it to be the same for their base 12 core model (the lowest end FirePro really isnt that expensive.. Cheaper than my 7970 Reference card). With their 16 core models fully decked out Im sure reaching 30k easily as any machine could. I Nah not happening. A 6core xeon is what, $1500? That makes $3k just for the cpus, incl. 2 GPUs, ecc memory which ain't cheap, and the ssd (i'll have a good laugh when they will put a 128gb ssd as standard :P ) Plus the design, i believe you're looking at at least 6.5k for a 12core model... Also, no dual 8cores here, so 12cores max. Apple probably did so because of the max tdp that the "shared cooling core" or whatever it's called can handle.
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 You could also put a pair of gaming graphics cards in a TB enclosure if that's what you wanted, but again it makes no sense to buy any Mac for gaming. The SSD in that rig would have to be swapped out for a PCIE version too for it to keep up. 1tb ssds are pointless in a consumer environment, which in turn makes the 1tb in his rig mean either: 2 512gb ssds in RAID, or a 1tb revodrive-style pcie ssd. Both of these offerings are on par with apple's, which is, on paper, capable of 1.25gbps/1gbps r/w speeds. On paper: read= not real marketing hype You're getting max. 1gbps reads from that thing, and even that is far fetched
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	Originally Posted by padi_04 You can always start another thread to continue it. If you do, let me know and i'll move the posts over there. Don't worry i was joking
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	The reason its a stretch is that SSDs in the 1250 range cost around 2k for a 750. Seems like a stretch unless its an upgrade option. The problem with this, as PCIE gains popularity the technology is growing fast and dropping in price fast. The things Apple is offering later this year, are going to be significantly more expensive than what will most likely already be on the market. I didnt see any findings of exclusivity with Samsung on their new PCIE drives. So we will have to wait and see on that aspect I suppose. And while 1250 sequential read and a little slower write might be nice.. Unless random write speeds start exceeding, or need to exceed Sata 3 speeds its quite an investment thats going to dramatically improve during this new Mac Pros lifespan. And at a ridiculous price point. Im always a skeptic though, since the airs just started shipping this week, I want to see some real world performance vs some write ups by some guys who got a Test model etc.
Alphonso Deitchman 12.06.2013	Given that the entry-level Air is now pushing 800MB/s it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for the Pro to peak at 1250. Obviously this will be for sequential rather than random access but it's still a huge improvement over SATA.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50 That's kind of my point. With a custom built computer you have the ability to go between gaming AND firepro if you ever need it. FirePro excels where gaming is sluggish and vice versa. All the rest, a custom built computer will always demolish that Mac. I'm sure if you swapped out balakoth's GPUs with FirePros it would annihilate the Mac Pro. Technically Slvr if i took out the water cooling, I could do two FirePros high end and two 750 PCEI SSDs for the same price I built it for :P So in the end, I will win on price to performance since I would then be using the exact same hardware, except my motherboard which would be an ASUS Server board.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 You could also put a pair of gaming graphics cards in a TB enclosure if that's what you wanted, but again it makes no sense to buy any Mac for gaming. The SSD in that rig would have to be swapped out for a PCIE version too for it to keep up. Because they changed their format? Again before their new FirePro setup, they offered high end gaming consumer cards as standard in their setups, you could upgrade to a better option, for double the price you could pay for such an item on newegg per say though. And yes I would, but not beat their performance. They arent putting $1600 PCIE SSD drives in there my friend. And even at that price point you are getting maximum 810 read/write.. which is still not the 1250 they want to claim at this point. Real world statistics trump marketing hype every day, everything they list is the Pure maximum the machine could push, and yet most likely never will. (Unless you are using it as a Folding Machine.) But when hardware actually needs speeds faster than 6 GB / Sata 3 PCIE will be an easy upgrade. But if you want to nitpick, the extra money I would have spent on going PCIE in the first place would be minimal, but a complete waste for my audio production applications the computer serves at this point. Mac Pros are always a normal base price of 5k without displays. I full expect it to be the same for their base 12 core model (the lowest end FirePro really isnt that expensive.. Cheaper than my 7970 Reference card). With their 16 core models fully decked out Im sure reaching 30k easily as any machine could. In the end you pay for the design, the brand, and the operating system. Apple isnt designing anything special in these machines besides the chasis, the manufacturers already putting this hardware in "professional" windows and linux based systems have been doing it for awhile and at a lower price point. I have nothing against Apple per say except price. I would have probably bought a Mac Pro instead had they not wanted to charge me double price for literally every upgrade. Oh and probably the fact OSX feels weird no matter how many times i try to use it again lol. Linux and Windows for to long
Nedra Fresneda 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon padi party breaker You can always start another thread to continue it. If you do, let me know and i'll move the posts over there.
Alphonso Deitchman 12.06.2013	You could also put a pair of gaming graphics cards in a TB enclosure if that's what you wanted, but again it makes no sense to buy any Mac for gaming. The SSD in that rig would have to be swapped out for a PCIE version too for it to keep up.
Gaynell Rydberg 12.06.2013	That's kind of my point. With a custom built computer you have the ability to go between gaming AND firepro if you ever need it. FirePro excels where gaming is sluggish and vice versa. All the rest, a custom built computer will always demolish that Mac. I'm sure if you swapped out balakoth's GPUs with FirePros it would annihilate the Mac Pro.
Trey Brune 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by padi_04 Back to topic please. There is speculation that major digital audio manufacturers might be working on incorporating thunderbolt technology more effectively. Most believe that companies like Avid and Apogee might be working on AD/DA converters that have a built-in Thunderbolt converters. This would go hand in hand with new Thunderbolt optical cables as seen here. I'm hoping they develop a system where they push out directly to Thunderbolt, reducing latency even more. The only thing I'm not sure about is how they'll handle DSP technology in the future. If the scene seems to be moving away from PCI-E in terms of connections, then an-out of box DSP solution would be needed. It wouldn't surprise me if Avid or Apogee would put out "DSP Racks" that can be connected to your converter of choice and put out multiple digital signals, including Thunderbolt. This would actually be very smart, as it would make things more modular since you wouldn't be tied to specific computers that had to have physical PCI-E cards installed inside. You'd be able to switch out computers on the fly, making such a set-up ideal for live or on-site recordings. I'm also sure that if they we're to focus on a more modular solution like this, they could improve latency across the converters and the DSP racks. As technology gets better I'm sure they could make it so the latency is at the current 0.7 MS they have for Pro Tools HDX. Which in term would make the only latency bottle-neck the computer hooked up to your set-up. It would be ideal since it could potentially future proof itself for a long time, as long as transport methods don't change too rapidly. Here's hoping.
Dannie Dimora 13.06.2013	padi party breaker If we go back on topic we'll probably step into someone's hatemachine again.
Nedra Fresneda 13.06.2013	Back to topic please.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon An fx4k to... play quake? what? xD My i7 that got replaced by this machine is running an Linux server with GCC and Apache on it.. lol... we do it because we CAN poly!
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Best card for an "old" system, without a doubt, is the GF4 Ti4600. The good news is, they're only about
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Best card for an "old" system, without a doubt, is the GF4 Ti4600. The good news is, they're only about
Doreen Schurle 12.06.2013	Best card for an "old" system, without a doubt, is the GF4 Ti4600. The good news is, they're only about
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Darn yeah we derailed this thread but it's becoming AWESOME!
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by balakoth What is "flawlessly" tho Poly lol... Certain peoples definition of "flawless" can vary... GREATLY I know some of my antique games just can't run smoothly on my win7 rig. Microstuttering et all, i'm calling on too much performance hehe Vintage systems with vintage old cases :P Components that were about to be thrown in the trash at local computer shops etc etc. Flawlessly means that... well... i don't really know what it means, but there's a certain...satisfaction in seeing a computer crunching away a session of doom2 :P
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon Believe me i do one of my hobbies is building old state-of-the-art computers with old OS that can run old games FLAWLESSLY :P What is "flawlessly" tho Poly lol... Certain peoples definition of "flawless" can vary... GREATLY
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign Ahaha you wouldn't want it, they're ridiculously slow by todays' standards :P If you want to see some serious Voodoo-related badassery though, check out this maniac's thread: http://community s.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=355053 Believe me i do one of my hobbies is building old state-of-the-art computers with old OS that can run old games FLAWLESSLY :P
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign If that's a Voodoo5 6000, I've got one of those in a box somewhere :P EDIT: One of the first cards to require external 12V power if I remember rightly :O I had a Voodoo2... heh.. Oh memories and how much weve progressed
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 The Titan is Kepler too, yet it has decent CUDA performance. Because it has frickin' 2 times the transistor count. The 680 was about 20% slower than the 580, which makes the titan quite faster.
Shawn Vanhaitsma 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by makar1 1200 certainly is a resolution, I'm using it right now. Connected to the computer I built from scratch.. 7970s are extremely cheap compared to the FirePros that will be used in the Pro. I really don't care that much about the machine, but it is unfair to compare it to a gaming rig you built at home. The FirePro two base models, once that will be supplied in the Mac Pro, have the same Stream Count, Ram, and Clock Frequencies. Only difference is going to be Drivers, and thats going to affect render performance. Notice how we are DJTechtools, for.. audio? Basically the only point you have to argue is that I didnt buy top of the line 3000 video cards for rendering video... Instead I have two 600 dollar video cards for Gaming, that provide the same Polygon rendering count in a 3dmax environment that the low end FirePros do.... Secondly technically when I built this machine, Apple wasnt using FirePros they were still using Radeons. So if you take away your server desktop cards, My machine.. still wins in Audio Production (Yes yes FirePros are going to destroy a Gaming card, but I wasnt aware I needed to render video as a producer and create render farms for my next big pixar movie) I going assume they willl allow you to not use the FirePro, their cheapest FirePro is 500 a piece and we know apple jacks that up another 400 for resell. They will still be able to come with Radeons, as many people still use their Pros for gaming as well. Good on Apple for working so hard on that Case design, now everyone elses hard work can be shown off. Pretty cool honestly.
Doreen Schurle 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon but..un...releas...ed... SELL ME SELL ME SELL ME SELL ME Ahaha you wouldn't want it, they're ridiculously slow by todays' standards :P If you want to see some serious Voodoo-related badassery though, check out this maniac's thread: http://community s.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=355053
Alphonso Deitchman 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon CUDA sucks on the last gen because kepler wasn't designed with raw power in mind as fermi was. The Titan is Kepler too, yet it has decent CUDA performance.
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign If that's a Voodoo5 6000, I've got one of those in a box somewhere :P EDIT: One of the first cards to require external 12V power if I remember rightly :O but..un...releas...ed... SELL ME SELL ME SELL ME SELL ME
Doreen Schurle 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by Polygon Oh the days :P Love the intel chipset over there :P If that's a Voodoo5 6000, I've got one of those in a box somewhere :P EDIT: One of the first cards to require external 12V power if I remember rightly :O
Dannie Dimora 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by mdcdesign I still remember when SLI meant Scan Line Interleave on the Voodoo2s Oh the days :P Love the intel chipset over there :P A WHOPPING 128mb of graphics memory!!!
Doreen Schurle 12.06.2013	Originally Posted by balakoth Yeah I been stuck with Nvidia befoer this for so long.. I get those two mixed up lol I still remember when SLI meant Scan Line Interleave on the Voodoo2s

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