Mixing in headphones

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Mixing in headphones
Posted on: 02.07.2013 by Marcelina Hanaway
Second post in the same day! BOOM! Due to neighbors and late evening cravings, I've found myself mixing through my headphones. I really dig it. Can't seem to find a good position for my rokits, so the music kinda sounds off to me in my apartment. Basically what I'm trying to get at is this: is mixing within headphones a bad habit? The sound just seems to good to be true.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
I do this sometimes, but with the amps rather than the mixer to get the right balance between the subs and the tops.
Lucky Most of the venues I've played at have the amps in the manager's office or the cellar, presumably to stop people screwing with them haha. I wouldn't mind so much if they were configured properly, but they're usually not.
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
It doesn't exist, no, but the first time you play in a new venue, you can stick a track on and walk around the place; essentially, you're putting together a mental map of how the sound changes in the space depending on proximity to speakers, angles of the walls, height of the ceiling, etc etc. You then go back to the booth, make adjustments, and take another walk. Repeat this process a couple of times and you should be able to work out roughly what every other area in the club sounds like in relation to your spot in the booth.

Surely I can't be the only one who does this? :-\
I do this sometimes, but with the amps rather than the mixer to get the right balance between the subs and the tops.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Unless you're mixing in the sweet spot of the room (does that even exist in clubs?), the sound through your headphones will always be much flatter and more accurate than anything you hear through the speakers. The sound quality will be unquestionably better through decent headphones.
It doesn't exist, no, but the first time you play in a new venue, you can stick a track on and walk around the place; essentially, you're putting together a mental map of how the sound changes in the space depending on proximity to speakers, angles of the walls, height of the ceiling, etc etc. You then go back to the booth, make adjustments, and take another walk. Repeat this process a couple of times and you should be able to work out roughly what every other area in the club sounds like in relation to your spot in the booth.

Surely I can't be the only one who does this? :-\
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
In my experience, tbh, it doesn't matter how good the sound system is in a club, the acoustic profile of the room is always completely and utterly different from your headphones.
That goes without saying. But the DJ is supposed to EQ the tracks into one another, not EQ to the room environment.

Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I used to just use the headphones while beatmatching; nowadays, the only time I put them on is when I'm playing a new track I haven't already played a hundred times before.
I find headphones invaluble for balancing levels and EQing, especially if layering tracks. You might find your mixes improve if you monitor things properly through headphones as others have said already.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Wait... You use SYNC?!?!?!?

Only joking, man!
Ahaha You already know my justification for it
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Not while the DJ's playing - I suppose I meant the guy that puts the big ol' sticker on the board that says "DO NOT CHANGE THE LEVELS!!!"
Ahhh haha

In my experience, tbh, it doesn't matter how good the sound system is in a club, the acoustic profile of the room is always completely and utterly different from your headphones. I used to just use the headphones while beatmatching; nowadays, the only time I put them on is when I'm playing a new track I haven't already played a hundred times before.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
The way I look at it, the mix will ALWAYS sound better in headphones.

I've never really considered eq'ing the actual DJ mix to suit the room. That's for the sound engineer (or the guy who maintains the PA system) to worry about. But considering the incoming track, the out going track AND the room when DJ'ing? That sonds like a lot to deal with... At least until you've played the place a few times and have an idea of the sound of the room.

I always used the difference in sound in headphones and on the dance floor as a kind of margin for error - if it sounds good in the headphones, it'll sound fine on the floor.
Do you have sound engineers in Bristol? :O
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
I do this sometimes, but with the amps rather than the mixer to get the right balance between the subs and the tops.
Lucky Most of the venues I've played at have the amps in the manager's office or the cellar, presumably to stop people screwing with them haha. I wouldn't mind so much if they were configured properly, but they're usually not.
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
It doesn't exist, no, but the first time you play in a new venue, you can stick a track on and walk around the place; essentially, you're putting together a mental map of how the sound changes in the space depending on proximity to speakers, angles of the walls, height of the ceiling, etc etc. You then go back to the booth, make adjustments, and take another walk. Repeat this process a couple of times and you should be able to work out roughly what every other area in the club sounds like in relation to your spot in the booth.

Surely I can't be the only one who does this? :-\
I do this sometimes, but with the amps rather than the mixer to get the right balance between the subs and the tops.
Brunilda Kora
22.07.2013		I almost understand what you're saying.

But the properties of the room will change relative to how many people are in there... You can't go for a wander every time a few more people come into the room.
Brunilda Kora
22.07.2013		I almost understand what you're saying.

But the properties of the room will change relative to how many people are in there... You can't go for a wander every time a few more people come into the room.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Unless you're mixing in the sweet spot of the room (does that even exist in clubs?), the sound through your headphones will always be much flatter and more accurate than anything you hear through the speakers. The sound quality will be unquestionably better through decent headphones.
It doesn't exist, no, but the first time you play in a new venue, you can stick a track on and walk around the place; essentially, you're putting together a mental map of how the sound changes in the space depending on proximity to speakers, angles of the walls, height of the ceiling, etc etc. You then go back to the booth, make adjustments, and take another walk. Repeat this process a couple of times and you should be able to work out roughly what every other area in the club sounds like in relation to your spot in the booth.

Surely I can't be the only one who does this? :-\
Augustine Mitzen
22.07.2013		Eqing to the room usually means crank up the bass a little, if it's too low for the system.

i wonder if I don't know about some supersecret awesome DJ technique or you're just overbelieveing stuff
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013		Unless you're mixing in the sweet spot of the room (does that even exist in clubs?), the sound through your headphones will always be much flatter and more accurate than anything you hear through the speakers. The sound quality will be unquestionably better through decent headphones.
Gaynell Rydberg
22.07.2013		EQing with the room environment, you're still EQing the tracks together. You're just factoring in the effect the acoustics of the room have on the tracks.

Don't see how EQing in headphones is more accurate for the setting. Maybe in a recorded mix the headphones may be more accurate but not necessarily in the club.
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
In my experience, tbh, it doesn't matter how good the sound system is in a club, the acoustic profile of the room is always completely and utterly different from your headphones.
That goes without saying. But the DJ is supposed to EQ the tracks into one another, not EQ to the room environment.

Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I used to just use the headphones while beatmatching; nowadays, the only time I put them on is when I'm playing a new track I haven't already played a hundred times before.
I find headphones invaluble for balancing levels and EQing, especially if layering tracks. You might find your mixes improve if you monitor things properly through headphones as others have said already.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Wait... You use SYNC?!?!?!?

Only joking, man!
Ahaha You already know my justification for it
Brunilda Kora
22.07.2013		Wait... You use SYNC?!?!?!?

Only joking, man!
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Not while the DJ's playing - I suppose I meant the guy that puts the big ol' sticker on the board that says "DO NOT CHANGE THE LEVELS!!!"
Ahhh haha

In my experience, tbh, it doesn't matter how good the sound system is in a club, the acoustic profile of the room is always completely and utterly different from your headphones. I used to just use the headphones while beatmatching; nowadays, the only time I put them on is when I'm playing a new track I haven't already played a hundred times before.
Brunilda Kora
22.07.2013		Not while the DJ's playing - I suppose I meant the guy that puts the big ol' sticker on the board that says "DO NOT CHANGE THE LEVELS!!!"
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
The way I look at it, the mix will ALWAYS sound better in headphones.

I've never really considered eq'ing the actual DJ mix to suit the room. That's for the sound engineer (or the guy who maintains the PA system) to worry about. But considering the incoming track, the out going track AND the room when DJ'ing? That sonds like a lot to deal with... At least until you've played the place a few times and have an idea of the sound of the room.

I always used the difference in sound in headphones and on the dance floor as a kind of margin for error - if it sounds good in the headphones, it'll sound fine on the floor.
Do you have sound engineers in Bristol? :O
Brunilda Kora
22.07.2013		The way I look at it, the mix will ALWAYS sound better in headphones.

I've never really considered eq'ing the actual DJ mix to suit the room. That's for the sound engineer (or the guy who maintains the PA system) to worry about. But considering the incoming track, the out going track AND the room when DJ'ing? That sonds like a lot to deal with... At least until you've played the place a few times and have an idea of the sound of the room.

I always used the difference in sound in headphones and on the dance floor as a kind of margin for error - if it sounds good in the headphones, it'll sound fine on the floor.
Trista Karle
22.07.2013		IMO you become a far more precise dj in headphones.. Club accustics and so many variables can cover up a large amount of things headphones can't. I mix entirely in headphones at home especially when wife and kid around when not I have studio monitors and I keep a cue/mix running properly through headphones and usually keep one cup on ear... When in a club environment I only use them a little far less then when at home but still do usually one cup as well
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Sounds like monitor speakers would be the perfect solution then.
There IS a monitor speaker, but that's the problem isn't it. It sounds COMPLETELY different than the rest of the venue. A 12" Behringer PA speaker has virtually no bottom end, so a balanced mix IN the booth is completely out of whack out on the floor.
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013		Sounds like monitor speakers would be the perfect solution then.
Doreen Schurle
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by DISaS73R
The thing about headphone mixing is that at a club you're not mixing for yourself. You're mixing for the audience, so it's a good idea to listen to the club speakers at least every now and then.
Yep, I just can't get my head around mixing in headphones or even with monitor speakers in a club. One of the venues I play at has a DJ booth which is separate from the dance area, with windows that open out and lift off the hinges; sometimes, the staff forget to unlock them and I'm like... "please could you go get the key for the window padlock?"

First time I asked they looked at me like I was mad, so I had to explain to them there is NO way you can mix properly without actually being able to hear what the audience is hearing. Not at the same volume, admittedly, because the booth is enclosed on 3 sides, but at least the balance between EQ bands.
Alphonso Deitchman
22.07.2013		The bad thing about club speakers is that they're guaranteed to be at a harmful SPL, especially at busy times.
Olin Easley
22.07.2013		The thing about headphone mixing is that at a club you're not mixing for yourself. You're mixing for the audience, so it's a good idea to listen to the club speakers at least every now and then.
Latoria Kavulich
22.07.2013
Originally Posted by pault107
I use two pairs of headphones - one for the master and one for the cue. I often have both sets on my head at the same time, switching them around as needed. Probably looks quite mental but it means I can mix at 3am without disturbing anyone
ever hear of a cue button and mix knob?
Latoria Kavulich
22.07.2013		Unless we have a party, i do 90% of my mixes and radio shows all in the headphones.
Contessa Atanasoff
21.07.2013		A lot of people have said using headphones or in-ear monitors helps them a lot. I know Wolfgang Gartner swears by his haha.

Personally, I can't stand it. I cue in the headphones like anyone else, but I just feel so disconnected from the audience, and from the music coming out of the speakers when I'm transitioning using ear monitors. I feel like I'm in a different world, and I don't like it.

But that's just me, it's all about personal preference, so if that works for you, go for it! And rock it out !
Jarrod Grindel
02.07.2013		Ever since I started DJing I have always used the headphones only to monitor my mix. Most of my DJ mates thought I was mental for doing so, but for me it's has just always felt right.

Much tighter mixes, and it save relying on some clubs crappy monitors!
Marlyn Hundl
02.07.2013		I use two pairs of headphones - one for the master and one for the cue. I often have both sets on my head at the same time, switching them around as needed. Probably looks quite mental but it means I can mix at 3am without disturbing anyone
Marcelina Hanaway
02.07.2013
Originally Posted by DjGil
Hey man im running a 900x2 db2 setup and im 90% sure you can change the feed signal if you go under the menu under hp settings you can change the feed type to another setting other than clean with effect, ill have to check after work.

And for saying that its to loud when you cue isnt that what the cue/mix ratio knob is for?
Same setup here, Gil. Let me know if you figure it out. I'm at work, too.
Lana Akey
02.07.2013
Originally Posted by nudedudewithattitude
Thanks for the reply, Dean. I find myself doing the same thing. Honestly, I like controlling everything with knobs (gain, highs, mids, lows - DUH). Every now and then, I seem to cut too hard in a transition. With the headphones on, I don't make this mistake. Could be all in my head though. I use a DB2, so I wish I could hear fx/filters through the headphones. Otherwise, it's fun and gives me a chance to play more without worrying about neighbors complaining.
Hey man im running a 900x2 db2 setup and im 90% sure you can change the feed signal if you go under the menu under hp settings you can change the feed type to another setting other than clean with effect, ill have to check after work.

And for saying that its to loud when you cue isnt that what the cue/mix ratio knob is for?
Marcelina Hanaway
02.07.2013		My current desk only fits my CDJs and mixer. The speakers stay on the bottom. When I play though, I take the dinner table chairs out, place them to the sides of my desk and mix like that. But the chairs only come up to about my waist. Sometimes, I'll let a track play and get on the floor to hear how nice it would sound if I had a decent spot for the speakers. Often times I drool.
Hellen Mindrup
02.07.2013
Originally Posted by nudedudewithattitude
They definitely do. My speaker situation is driving me bananas. Need to get that expedit, but don't want to drive 2 hours to get to ikea.
What's your situation? Why can't you get your monitors setup?
Marcelina Hanaway
02.07.2013
Originally Posted by Kwal
Your blends will usually sound a tad bit better in your headphones
They definitely do. My speaker situation is driving me bananas. Need to get that expedit, but don't want to drive 2 hours to get to ikea.
Hellen Mindrup
02.07.2013		Your blends will usually sound a tad bit better in your headphones
Loyd Cilek
02.07.2013		Well on the DJM's you have the master cue, just below the balance knob. Once you hit that you can then select whether or not to hear the cue, mixing or master. That's what I've been trying to do but like I said, I've found once you hit the CUE button on the channel it's a lot louder than the master output through the headphones.

You can see what I mean here:

http://www.westenddj.co.uk/product.asp?mod=DJM800

I'm sure other manufacturers have this feature.

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