Replicating the slicer function of twitch in traktor?

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Replicating the slicer function of twitch in traktor?
Posted on: 15.08.2011 by Jan Manzoni
Hi,
I've seen a demonstration video of the Twitch and I absolutely love the slicer function. However since I don't own it and I currently do not intend to buy it, I was wondering if this function could be somehow replicated for another controller via the mapping of Traktor.
Thanks in advance
Chasidy Heckenbach
07.10.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
heheh I believe for this a text file might be better than the gui available in traktor. But there's no way to use midimasher on a mac yet is there
ah... nope, not yet. i need to come up with some plan for that... i do want to try it on osx tho. guess i just need to see if i can buy a copy from somewhere and try it in a virtual session.
Danae Dumler
07.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
or just use my midimasher and never have to use the controller editor ever again (well almost)

tho you do have to edit your config in notepad or something instead of course - for now at least - i know many people would prefer a gui even if it sucks
heheh I believe for this a text file might be better than the gui available in traktor. But there's no way to use midimasher on a mac yet is there
Originally Posted by mrjezza
@ djproben - the slicer is fully a software feature; i really doubt any part of the processing/programming occurs on the twitch unit. it would all be within itch and the twitch is just saying "go to slice 4" or whatever, while the software is keeping the track moving forward while updating what the 8 slices are (or in the other mode maintaining the looped section and the same 8 slices). the software would also be keeping time in the background so that when you stop hitting buttons the sound the next slice starts perfectly quantized and in sequence because the track is always keeping its natural timing behind whatever you're doing.
I didnt mean it was on the hardware; just that the version of itch that ships with twitch was programmed specifically for that controller and layout. There's no otehr version of itch that has the slicer (as I understand it); you can't just tell a midifghter to do what the slicer does if you have SSL or Itch - the commands were written for the interface.
Chasidy Heckenbach
06.10.2011
Originally Posted by BradCee
Can't it be replicated using the beatmashers 'rot' parameter?
i don't believe so but i'll have to have a look again at the beatmasher. not sure i've ever actually used it in single mode...

i like the way the slicer moves through the beats. lighting up the pads tho, kind of mpc style.

most people aren't going to want to run any middleware software ofc - so it'd be interesting to see how close (or not) the beatmasher effect is with the slicer in itch.
Chasidy Heckenbach
06.10.2011
Originally Posted by mrjezza

if it was part of traktor then it would be simple to make a midi controller that could work with it. the hardest part of making a mapping for traktor with a slicer is that you have to work out a way of manually moving back and forth through the looped section, whereas itch is doing all of that automatically in the background.

this is why some basic programming functionality is necessary because you're building a slicer function for traktor, not just mapping some buttons to a feature that already exists.
yep - this has been my issue. the only info you get as to where the track is is the beatphase monitor, but then u also need to take into acct traktors quantization.

just because you've had a new beatphase message (mid-range to indicate a new beat) u can't just assume that a beatjump-8 will go back to the previous beat as it also depends on how soon after that beat message that the pad is pressed. seems to be more of an issue with jumping forwards than back - but same issue.

there again i just need to do some more debug i guess to work at which of the 16th events that i have configured my tsi to send out determine where traktor will jump when a beatjump is sent out.

also i finally read the twitch user manual the other day and realised my slicer implementation isn't quite what the twitch/itch does anyway.

fun stuff tho... much coding and tweaking ahead
Chasidy Heckenbach
28.09.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
As for the extreme mapping software - yes it is good but it doesn't do basic things you would expect, like being able to change more than one setting at once (e.g. set ten settings to deck B instead of A all at once). But it's still a lot better than using Traktor's mapping window.
or just use my midimasher and never have to use the controller editor ever again (well almost)

tho you do have to edit your config in notepad or something instead of course - for now at least - i know many people would prefer a gui even if it sucks
Chasidy Heckenbach
22.09.2011		if anyone is interested in this, i released a version of a traktor slicer via my midmasher app recently: http://www.djranking s.com/community /sho...e=6#post349011

it's set for an lpd8 at the moment - but the same code will work on anything - ish. i'll keep my sig link up to date with the latest post/webpage for my midimasher.

Originally Posted by mrjezza
i believe the best route is to make use of a midi translator and with this i expect i'll be able to integrate variable loop/measure lengths split into 8 pieces as per the itch functionality - ie loop is split into 8 measures, but each measure could be bars, beats, 1/2 beats, 1/4 beats, etc.
yep exactly - not sure if it's even possible without some kind of midi translator type app. feel free to try my midimasher and hack/rework/totally-recode the slicer code

it mostly works - but does fail to jump to the right beat at times...

i've put development on hold until i get my twitch (waiting on pre-order to arrive). i dont want to faff about remapping it a 3rd time when twitch actually arrives.
if u have any controller with 8 pads and led feedback then the same code will work. midimasher itself sends out the traktor messages - so you never have to mess in the actual tsi. have a look at devices/traktor.lua in my code which explain how/why. a simple devices config file maps the actual midi sent out from each device to standard names - which allows code like the slicer and virtual midifighters to work on any pad controller.

is that extreme mapping software for osx actually any good? seems like it might help me with my development of this
wish i knew if i had a mac i'd buy a copy for sure... even tho 90% of the time i only use my fixed tsi and midimasher now i still find me needing to add missing stuff every now and again - or tweak stuff. plus i have only added stuff for decks a+b and sample decks c+d (+mixer and effects ofc) to it's tsi at the moment. and don't fancy using the traktor controller manager to add all the missing ones
Jan Manzoni
15.08.2011		Hi,
I've seen a demonstration video of the Twitch and I absolutely love the slicer function. However since I don't own it and I currently do not intend to buy it, I was wondering if this function could be somehow replicated for another controller via the mapping of Traktor.
Thanks in advance
Chasidy Heckenbach
07.10.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
heheh I believe for this a text file might be better than the gui available in traktor. But there's no way to use midimasher on a mac yet is there
ah... nope, not yet. i need to come up with some plan for that... i do want to try it on osx tho. guess i just need to see if i can buy a copy from somewhere and try it in a virtual session.
Danae Dumler
07.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
or just use my midimasher and never have to use the controller editor ever again (well almost)

tho you do have to edit your config in notepad or something instead of course - for now at least - i know many people would prefer a gui even if it sucks
heheh I believe for this a text file might be better than the gui available in traktor. But there's no way to use midimasher on a mac yet is there
Originally Posted by mrjezza
@ djproben - the slicer is fully a software feature; i really doubt any part of the processing/programming occurs on the twitch unit. it would all be within itch and the twitch is just saying "go to slice 4" or whatever, while the software is keeping the track moving forward while updating what the 8 slices are (or in the other mode maintaining the looped section and the same 8 slices). the software would also be keeping time in the background so that when you stop hitting buttons the sound the next slice starts perfectly quantized and in sequence because the track is always keeping its natural timing behind whatever you're doing.
I didnt mean it was on the hardware; just that the version of itch that ships with twitch was programmed specifically for that controller and layout. There's no otehr version of itch that has the slicer (as I understand it); you can't just tell a midifghter to do what the slicer does if you have SSL or Itch - the commands were written for the interface.
Chasidy Heckenbach
06.10.2011
Originally Posted by BradCee
Can't it be replicated using the beatmashers 'rot' parameter?
i don't believe so but i'll have to have a look again at the beatmasher. not sure i've ever actually used it in single mode...

i like the way the slicer moves through the beats. lighting up the pads tho, kind of mpc style.

most people aren't going to want to run any middleware software ofc - so it'd be interesting to see how close (or not) the beatmasher effect is with the slicer in itch.
Dorcas Bassignani
06.10.2011		Can't it be replicated using the beatmashers 'rot' parameter?
Chasidy Heckenbach
06.10.2011
Originally Posted by mrjezza

if it was part of traktor then it would be simple to make a midi controller that could work with it. the hardest part of making a mapping for traktor with a slicer is that you have to work out a way of manually moving back and forth through the looped section, whereas itch is doing all of that automatically in the background.

this is why some basic programming functionality is necessary because you're building a slicer function for traktor, not just mapping some buttons to a feature that already exists.
yep - this has been my issue. the only info you get as to where the track is is the beatphase monitor, but then u also need to take into acct traktors quantization.

just because you've had a new beatphase message (mid-range to indicate a new beat) u can't just assume that a beatjump-8 will go back to the previous beat as it also depends on how soon after that beat message that the pad is pressed. seems to be more of an issue with jumping forwards than back - but same issue.

there again i just need to do some more debug i guess to work at which of the 16th events that i have configured my tsi to send out determine where traktor will jump when a beatjump is sent out.

also i finally read the twitch user manual the other day and realised my slicer implementation isn't quite what the twitch/itch does anyway.

fun stuff tho... much coding and tweaking ahead
Anna Jenny
06.10.2011		i've been told by the dj shop where i preordered that shipment has left china and is expected at the store between 8 and 13 oct.

@ 031999 - i didn't even believe that some people might prefer a straight .tsi with limited functionality rather than going a more complex route to get the extra functionality. i'll see how i go once i start working with the twitch directly rather than using the keys on the keyboard, but with traktor's limited built in programming options it will be difficult if not impossible to get full functionality like it is in itch using a .tsi/traktor only solution.

basic maths and counter operations are pretty crucial to getting it fully functional, but sadly they are only available through external software/programming. i may still release a .tsi version with basic features so a) people can try and build on it, and b) those wanting an easy way of getting an extra feature have that option.


@ djproben - the slicer is fully a software feature; i really doubt any part of the processing/programming occurs on the twitch unit. it would all be within itch and the twitch is just saying "go to slice 4" or whatever, while the software is keeping the track moving forward while updating what the 8 slices are (or in the other mode maintaining the looped section and the same 8 slices). the software would also be keeping time in the background so that when you stop hitting buttons the sound the next slice starts perfectly quantized and in sequence because the track is always keeping its natural timing behind whatever you're doing.

if it was part of traktor then it would be simple to make a midi controller that could work with it. the hardest part of making a mapping for traktor with a slicer is that you have to work out a way of manually moving back and forth through the looped section, whereas itch is doing all of that automatically in the background.

this is why some basic programming functionality is necessary because you're building a slicer function for traktor, not just mapping some buttons to a feature that already exists.
Chasidy Heckenbach
28.09.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
As for the extreme mapping software - yes it is good but it doesn't do basic things you would expect, like being able to change more than one setting at once (e.g. set ten settings to deck B instead of A all at once). But it's still a lot better than using Traktor's mapping window.
or just use my midimasher and never have to use the controller editor ever again (well almost)

tho you do have to edit your config in notepad or something instead of course - for now at least - i know many people would prefer a gui even if it sucks
Danae Dumler
28.09.2011		Heh, this is functionality I wish NI would just copy in a version of traktor. Not sure how they'd make it work though; that's the advantage Serato has in controlling hardware as well as software. Glad to see people working on this!

As for the extreme mapping software - yes it is good but it doesn't do basic things you would expect, like being able to change more than one setting at once (e.g. set ten settings to deck B instead of A all at once). But it's still a lot better than using Traktor's mapping window.
Lannie Kutay
27.09.2011		bump, @mrjezza, i saw the video and it looks more simpler than some other mappings and having to use virtual ports and stuff. We would love to see some kind of tsi or something. i really want to try this out. If you were to release it im sure people can help you improve it.
Chasidy Heckenbach
22.09.2011		if anyone is interested in this, i released a version of a traktor slicer via my midmasher app recently: http://www.djranking s.com/community /sho...e=6#post349011

it's set for an lpd8 at the moment - but the same code will work on anything - ish. i'll keep my sig link up to date with the latest post/webpage for my midimasher.

Originally Posted by mrjezza
i believe the best route is to make use of a midi translator and with this i expect i'll be able to integrate variable loop/measure lengths split into 8 pieces as per the itch functionality - ie loop is split into 8 measures, but each measure could be bars, beats, 1/2 beats, 1/4 beats, etc.
yep exactly - not sure if it's even possible without some kind of midi translator type app. feel free to try my midimasher and hack/rework/totally-recode the slicer code

it mostly works - but does fail to jump to the right beat at times...

i've put development on hold until i get my twitch (waiting on pre-order to arrive). i dont want to faff about remapping it a 3rd time when twitch actually arrives.
if u have any controller with 8 pads and led feedback then the same code will work. midimasher itself sends out the traktor messages - so you never have to mess in the actual tsi. have a look at devices/traktor.lua in my code which explain how/why. a simple devices config file maps the actual midi sent out from each device to standard names - which allows code like the slicer and virtual midifighters to work on any pad controller.

is that extreme mapping software for osx actually any good? seems like it might help me with my development of this
wish i knew if i had a mac i'd buy a copy for sure... even tho 90% of the time i only use my fixed tsi and midimasher now i still find me needing to add missing stuff every now and again - or tweak stuff. plus i have only added stuff for decks a+b and sample decks c+d (+mixer and effects ofc) to it's tsi at the moment. and don't fancy using the traktor controller manager to add all the missing ones
Anna Jenny
22.09.2011		i'm working on a mapping with a working slicer - youtube: "traktor slicer mapping v1" to see the proof of concept.

it was just a proof of concept to check that my thoughts about how to go about moving around the loop were correct. next step is to replicate the 8 beat looping so that it doesnt just loop a single beat repeatedly (unless you want it to), and i'm fairly sure i have a solid idea for that aspect too.

i believe the best route is to make use of a midi translator and with this i expect i'll be able to integrate variable loop/measure lengths split into 8 pieces as per the itch functionality - ie loop is split into 8 measures, but each measure could be bars, beats, 1/2 beats, 1/4 beats, etc.

i'm pretty sure that i can make it have basically all of the functionality of the looping slicer in itch when its in loop mode (not the mode where it keeps moving forward through the track)

i've put development on hold until i get my twitch (waiting on pre-order to arrive). i dont want to faff about remapping it a 3rd time when twitch actually arrives.

is that extreme mapping software for osx actually any good? seems like it might help me with my development of this
Jan Manzoni
15.08.2011		Alright, I'll have to wait for him to release the software then
Thanks for answering
Kecia Wnukowski
15.08.2011		short answer: not really.

But then: (from zestoi)
on a related-ish note i managed to code a twitch style slicer for traktor yesterday using my midimasher app that sits between my controllers and traktor. i'm using one massive all-encompassing tsi file that then my (lua) code can use as it needs to.

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