Modifying sample trigger behavior

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Modifying sample trigger behavior
Posted on: 13.11.2011 by Saundra Brisson
Hi all,

I've been a lurker for a while, but this is my first post. I recently bought an LPD8 to control my sample decks in Traktor (among other things) and I am having a tough time doing two things.

In the following video armyofme4340 is holding the cue button and hits the play button, which enables her to release the cue button with out interrupting playback of the track (between the 45 and 5 second marks). I want to know if there is a way to map this functionality to my sample decks in traktor. Basically I want my pads for each sample slot to act as triggers. But I then want to be able to continue normal playback of the sample upon pressing another button and release of the original triggering pad, much like pressing play when holding down cue on a normal track deck. Is that possible?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/armyofme4340#p/u/6/lMbsAIBs3uE"]armyofme4340's Channel - YouTube[/ame]





My other trouble is that I am not able to get my pads to light while a sample slot is being played. I have tried mapping the output in all the ways I can believe of and am still not getting anywhere. I also can't get led feedback for anything togglable. The LPD8 will respond to master pfl output and the like, but nothing related to a function state, if that state is toggled by the controller itself. It will light if the state is changed via mouse. This would suggest the problem is in Traktor to me, correct?

I have done a good bit of searching and haven't been able to find anything specific to my issues (although it has taught me how to do a lot of other useful things).

Thanks in advance for any help, Ian
Chasidy Heckenbach
15.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I'm looking through and I'm not really seeing anything that is a togglable function that I could use to control the LED's with an inverted command that wouldn't screw with the actual functioning of the software. Looks like I might end up just biting the bullet and figuring it out with Midi OX.
sure - or u can use midimasher in it's "pass thru" mode that i added at the weekend - tho not yet released.

it allows u to use midimasher more like bomes where by default it just passes any midi in message direct thru to a midi out put but u can also do other stuff with it - like in your case checking whether a lpd8 pad that just sent an 'off' message needs to be sent back another 'on' message to light it up again.
Saundra Brisson
15.11.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
to get it to work just with traktor, i.e: without any other software, u need to add extra mappings for the same buttons but inverted, so they do *something* when u release instead of press, to send the 'on' data back to the lpd8
I'm looking through and I'm not really seeing anything that is a togglable function that I could use to control the LED's with an inverted command that wouldn't screw with the actual functioning of the software. Looks like I might end up just biting the bullet and figuring it out with Midi OX.
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]


I like some of the improvements to the sample decks in 2.1.1 already. Enough so that I believe I'm going to rework my mapping altogether now.
They still need a LOT of work though. Nice of them to actually add SOME of the GUI controls too. haha.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Also, I just upgraded to 2.1.1 and I now see the outs you're referring to Dj dB. Excellent advice, thanks!
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
2.1.1 Has an Out under Sample Deck called Pre Fader Level Left & Pre Fader Level Right.


I like some of the improvements to the sample decks in 2.1.1 already. Enough so that I believe I'm going to rework my mapping altogether now.
Chasidy Heckenbach
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I have midi ox, but i havent even begun to explore it or attain any proficiency with it. setting up that delay between the LPD8and traktor was accomplished by reading someone else's walk through basically.
to get it to work just with traktor, i.e: without any other software, u need to add extra mappings for the same buttons but inverted, so they do *something* when u release instead of press, to send the 'on' data back to the lpd8.

alternatively do it all in midimasher and never have to even use the nasty traktor controller editor again...

this for example would connect your lpd8 and traktor, map a toggle button (with led feedback that works ofc ) to play deck a and a cue button in hold mode. and also map some pots to control eq:

Code:
open_midi_device("traktor", "traktor", "Traktor to MM", "MM to Traktor");
open_midi_device("lpd8", "lpd8", "LPD8", "LPD8", 6);

toggle("lpd8", "0,0", 0, ON, OFF, "traktor", "play_a")
button("lpd8", "0,1", 0, ON, OFF, "traktor", "cue_a")

pipe("lpd8", "fader1", 0, "traktor", "eq_low_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader2", 0, "traktor", "eq_mid_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader3", 0, "traktor", "eq_high_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader4", 0, "traktor", "volume_fader_a")
u also get multiple pages/layers for free so for my lpd8 mapping i have the top right button as a toggle that switches between two pages, one for deck a and one for deck b. with PAD and CC mode that then gives you 15 pads u can map for each deck.

PC mode is not so good - as can only be used for triggers or toggles and doesn't have led feedback over midi - still handy tho.
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
What version of Traktor are you using? I am using 2.0.1 and I don't see any additional options as far as what type of out to send. I just had to set up a deck PFL out and set it to deck c or d depending...lame!
2.1.1 Has an Out under Sample Deck called Pre Fader Level Left & Pre Fader Level Right.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
the lpd8 does indeed light up the pad as a function of hardware and also turn the pad led off whenever you release it - independant of whether it has received an external midi message to light it up.

the real solution to this is to send another midi ON message to the lpd8 as soon as you release the pad - hence no delay and no chance of it not working due to timings etc. if doing this just within traktor (i.e: without midimasher or bomes etc) then i believe u can do it by adding a new inverted control for each pad.

i have quite a lot of code in midimasher to work round this issue (and others) on the lpd8 so that i can treat it now like any other controller with led feedback in my midimasher configs.
I have midi ox, but i havent even begun to explore it or attain any proficiency with it. setting up that delay between the LPD8and traktor was accomplished by reading someone else's walk through basically.

I'm interested to hear more on how I could get it to work entirely with in traktor though. The midi cock delay works, but you have to mindful not to let your finger linger on the pad longer than a tenth of a second, which is a hassle as 1/10 of a second is a short ass time. That's the largest delay possible with the clock.


Also, I just upgraded to 2.1.1 and I now see the outs you're referring to Dj dB. Excellent advice, thanks!
Chasidy Heckenbach
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Okay, I found out why I am getting the wonky led response on my LPD8. The LPD8 lights a pad whenever it is depressed as a function of the hardware. So the output signal from Traktor needs to be sent to the LPD8 on a delay, otherwise it is received by the LPD8 while the pad is still depressed and the pad led turns off when you remove your finger like normal.

http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=111652

Since that pretty much settles my issue, thanks to DJdB for your answer to my questions.
the lpd8 does indeed light up the pad as a function of hardware and also turn the pad led off whenever you release it - independant of whether it has received an external midi message to light it up.

the real solution to this is to send another midi ON message to the lpd8 as soon as you release the pad - hence no delay and no chance of it not working due to timings etc. if doing this just within traktor (i.e: without midimasher or bomes etc) then i believe u can do it by adding a new inverted control for each pad.

i have quite a lot of code in midimasher to work round this issue (and others) on the lpd8 so that i can treat it now like any other controller with led feedback in my midimasher configs.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
There should be an output for the individual slots under the Sample Deck subtab in the dropdown for outputs. (I'm not in front of Traktor right now to tell you exactly what it's called, but I know it exists, as I use it with my X1.)
What version of Traktor are you using? I am using 2.0.1 and I don't see any additional options as far as what type of out to send. I just had to set up a deck PFL out and set it to deck c or d depending...lame!
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
EDIT: Well the PFL issue did work, the only problem is that the PFL out isn't selectable slot by slot. You can only select which deck you want that LED to monitor, so the light is basically an indicator for all four sample slots on that deck. So all my trigger pads light up when any of them is in use, or none light up at all.
There should be an output for the individual slots under the Sample Deck subtab in the dropdown for outputs. (I'm not in front of Traktor right now to tell you exactly what it's called, but I know it exists, as I use it with my X1.)

Originally Posted by [email protected]
SECOND EDIT: I remapped the slots using "slot start/stop" function instead of "sample play". That corrected the muting instead of stopping the slot behavior. Still can't get LED feed back unless I play the slot using the mouse.
I believe the other option is "Play Secondary", but if the start/stop works, then it works. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. haha

Originally Posted by [email protected]
I found a far better way of getting the slots to send midi feed back to the LPD8 that will show up. As opposed to using midi translator software to put a delay on traktors output to the LPD8 (which was super glitchy), or adding latency to the LPD8's signal to traktor (more stable, but obviously not ideal), I found a way to do it in Traktor. If you go to the send midi clock option and turn the delay all the way up to 100ms, it gives you a tenth of a second to pull your finger off of the trigger pad before the signal from traktor gets sent to the controller, so the light can get relit even after you remove your finger.
Didn't even believe about that, but great workaround! (As long as you're not using the MIDI Clock for syncing up anything else...)
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
Glad you figured it out! And anytime.


I found a far better way of getting the slots to send midi feed back to the LPD8 that will show up. As opposed to using midi translator software to put a delay on traktors output to the LPD8 (which was super glitchy), or adding latency to the LPD8's signal to traktor (more stable, but obviously not ideal), I found a way to do it in Traktor. If you go to the send midi clock option and turn the delay all the way up to 100ms, it gives you a tenth of a second to pull your finger off of the trigger pad before the signal from traktor gets sent to the controller, so the light can get relit even after you remove your finger.
Samual Ogura
13.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Okay, I found out why I am getting the wonky led response on my LPD8. The LPD8 lights a pad whenever it is depressed as a function of the hardware. So the output signal from Traktor needs to be sent to the LPD8 on a delay, otherwise it is received by the LPD8 while the pad is still depressed and the pad led turns off when you remove your finger like normal.

http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=111652




Since that pretty much settles my issue, thanks to DJdB for your answer to my questions.
Glad you figured it out! And anytime.
Saundra Brisson
13.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
I haven't been able to find a way to do that to mimic the decks' behavior yet. :/ As far as lighting up when it's playing, I use the PFL for each slot, which also gives me a rough indicator of whether it's completely out of sync without even putting it in my headphones.

As a side note, I've done a lot of fighting with the Sample Decks in TP2, and have essentially thrown my hands up until they fix all the problems (duplicates of the same command, labeling decks A-P+Sample Deck, acting differently for each play mode, etc.)

That's not a bad idea, the PFL thing. I was trying to use the "sample play" out, and I was getting it to work, but only if i clicked the button on the GUI. If I played the sample with my controller, nada. Very strange.

The PFL trick might bypass this issue, I'm gonna try it now.


EDIT: Well the PFL issue did work, the only problem is that the PFL out isn't selectable slot by slot. You can only select which deck you want that LED to monitor, so the light is basically an indicator for all four sample slots on that deck. So all my trigger pads light up when any of them is in use, or none light up at all.

The other weird issue I'm having is that I have the pads set to load from deck if one modifier is on, trigger the sample in that slot if no modifier is on, and finally work as a "sample play" button when a second modifier is pressed. All of that works, until I press the "sample play" while the slot is playing, then it just mutes instead of stopping? Is this typical behavior? Should I try to mapping it with the "slot start/stop" in instead of "sample play" to alleviate this issue?

SECOND EDIT: I remapped the slots using "slot start/stop" function instead of "sample play". That corrected the muting instead of stopping the slot behavior. Still can't get LED feed back unless I play the slot using the mouse.
Saundra Brisson
13.11.2011		Hi all,

I've been a lurker for a while, but this is my first post. I recently bought an LPD8 to control my sample decks in Traktor (among other things) and I am having a tough time doing two things.

In the following video armyofme4340 is holding the cue button and hits the play button, which enables her to release the cue button with out interrupting playback of the track (between the 45 and 5 second marks). I want to know if there is a way to map this functionality to my sample decks in traktor. Basically I want my pads for each sample slot to act as triggers. But I then want to be able to continue normal playback of the sample upon pressing another button and release of the original triggering pad, much like pressing play when holding down cue on a normal track deck. Is that possible?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/armyofme4340#p/u/6/lMbsAIBs3uE"]armyofme4340's Channel - YouTube[/ame]





My other trouble is that I am not able to get my pads to light while a sample slot is being played. I have tried mapping the output in all the ways I can believe of and am still not getting anywhere. I also can't get led feedback for anything togglable. The LPD8 will respond to master pfl output and the like, but nothing related to a function state, if that state is toggled by the controller itself. It will light if the state is changed via mouse. This would suggest the problem is in Traktor to me, correct?

I have done a good bit of searching and haven't been able to find anything specific to my issues (although it has taught me how to do a lot of other useful things).

Thanks in advance for any help, Ian
Chasidy Heckenbach
15.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I'm looking through and I'm not really seeing anything that is a togglable function that I could use to control the LED's with an inverted command that wouldn't screw with the actual functioning of the software. Looks like I might end up just biting the bullet and figuring it out with Midi OX.
sure - or u can use midimasher in it's "pass thru" mode that i added at the weekend - tho not yet released.

it allows u to use midimasher more like bomes where by default it just passes any midi in message direct thru to a midi out put but u can also do other stuff with it - like in your case checking whether a lpd8 pad that just sent an 'off' message needs to be sent back another 'on' message to light it up again.
Saundra Brisson
15.11.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
to get it to work just with traktor, i.e: without any other software, u need to add extra mappings for the same buttons but inverted, so they do *something* when u release instead of press, to send the 'on' data back to the lpd8
I'm looking through and I'm not really seeing anything that is a togglable function that I could use to control the LED's with an inverted command that wouldn't screw with the actual functioning of the software. Looks like I might end up just biting the bullet and figuring it out with Midi OX.
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]


I like some of the improvements to the sample decks in 2.1.1 already. Enough so that I believe I'm going to rework my mapping altogether now.
They still need a LOT of work though. Nice of them to actually add SOME of the GUI controls too. haha.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Also, I just upgraded to 2.1.1 and I now see the outs you're referring to Dj dB. Excellent advice, thanks!
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
2.1.1 Has an Out under Sample Deck called Pre Fader Level Left & Pre Fader Level Right.


I like some of the improvements to the sample decks in 2.1.1 already. Enough so that I believe I'm going to rework my mapping altogether now.
Chasidy Heckenbach
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I have midi ox, but i havent even begun to explore it or attain any proficiency with it. setting up that delay between the LPD8and traktor was accomplished by reading someone else's walk through basically.
to get it to work just with traktor, i.e: without any other software, u need to add extra mappings for the same buttons but inverted, so they do *something* when u release instead of press, to send the 'on' data back to the lpd8.

alternatively do it all in midimasher and never have to even use the nasty traktor controller editor again...

this for example would connect your lpd8 and traktor, map a toggle button (with led feedback that works ofc ) to play deck a and a cue button in hold mode. and also map some pots to control eq:

Code:
open_midi_device("traktor", "traktor", "Traktor to MM", "MM to Traktor");
open_midi_device("lpd8", "lpd8", "LPD8", "LPD8", 6);

toggle("lpd8", "0,0", 0, ON, OFF, "traktor", "play_a")
button("lpd8", "0,1", 0, ON, OFF, "traktor", "cue_a")

pipe("lpd8", "fader1", 0, "traktor", "eq_low_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader2", 0, "traktor", "eq_mid_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader3", 0, "traktor", "eq_high_a")
pipe("lpd8", "fader4", 0, "traktor", "volume_fader_a")
u also get multiple pages/layers for free so for my lpd8 mapping i have the top right button as a toggle that switches between two pages, one for deck a and one for deck b. with PAD and CC mode that then gives you 15 pads u can map for each deck.

PC mode is not so good - as can only be used for triggers or toggles and doesn't have led feedback over midi - still handy tho.
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
What version of Traktor are you using? I am using 2.0.1 and I don't see any additional options as far as what type of out to send. I just had to set up a deck PFL out and set it to deck c or d depending...lame!
2.1.1 Has an Out under Sample Deck called Pre Fader Level Left & Pre Fader Level Right.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
the lpd8 does indeed light up the pad as a function of hardware and also turn the pad led off whenever you release it - independant of whether it has received an external midi message to light it up.

the real solution to this is to send another midi ON message to the lpd8 as soon as you release the pad - hence no delay and no chance of it not working due to timings etc. if doing this just within traktor (i.e: without midimasher or bomes etc) then i believe u can do it by adding a new inverted control for each pad.

i have quite a lot of code in midimasher to work round this issue (and others) on the lpd8 so that i can treat it now like any other controller with led feedback in my midimasher configs.
I have midi ox, but i havent even begun to explore it or attain any proficiency with it. setting up that delay between the LPD8and traktor was accomplished by reading someone else's walk through basically.

I'm interested to hear more on how I could get it to work entirely with in traktor though. The midi cock delay works, but you have to mindful not to let your finger linger on the pad longer than a tenth of a second, which is a hassle as 1/10 of a second is a short ass time. That's the largest delay possible with the clock.


Also, I just upgraded to 2.1.1 and I now see the outs you're referring to Dj dB. Excellent advice, thanks!
Chasidy Heckenbach
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Okay, I found out why I am getting the wonky led response on my LPD8. The LPD8 lights a pad whenever it is depressed as a function of the hardware. So the output signal from Traktor needs to be sent to the LPD8 on a delay, otherwise it is received by the LPD8 while the pad is still depressed and the pad led turns off when you remove your finger like normal.

http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=111652

Since that pretty much settles my issue, thanks to DJdB for your answer to my questions.
the lpd8 does indeed light up the pad as a function of hardware and also turn the pad led off whenever you release it - independant of whether it has received an external midi message to light it up.

the real solution to this is to send another midi ON message to the lpd8 as soon as you release the pad - hence no delay and no chance of it not working due to timings etc. if doing this just within traktor (i.e: without midimasher or bomes etc) then i believe u can do it by adding a new inverted control for each pad.

i have quite a lot of code in midimasher to work round this issue (and others) on the lpd8 so that i can treat it now like any other controller with led feedback in my midimasher configs.
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
There should be an output for the individual slots under the Sample Deck subtab in the dropdown for outputs. (I'm not in front of Traktor right now to tell you exactly what it's called, but I know it exists, as I use it with my X1.)
What version of Traktor are you using? I am using 2.0.1 and I don't see any additional options as far as what type of out to send. I just had to set up a deck PFL out and set it to deck c or d depending...lame!
Samual Ogura
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
EDIT: Well the PFL issue did work, the only problem is that the PFL out isn't selectable slot by slot. You can only select which deck you want that LED to monitor, so the light is basically an indicator for all four sample slots on that deck. So all my trigger pads light up when any of them is in use, or none light up at all.
There should be an output for the individual slots under the Sample Deck subtab in the dropdown for outputs. (I'm not in front of Traktor right now to tell you exactly what it's called, but I know it exists, as I use it with my X1.)

Originally Posted by [email protected]
SECOND EDIT: I remapped the slots using "slot start/stop" function instead of "sample play". That corrected the muting instead of stopping the slot behavior. Still can't get LED feed back unless I play the slot using the mouse.
I believe the other option is "Play Secondary", but if the start/stop works, then it works. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. haha

Originally Posted by [email protected]
I found a far better way of getting the slots to send midi feed back to the LPD8 that will show up. As opposed to using midi translator software to put a delay on traktors output to the LPD8 (which was super glitchy), or adding latency to the LPD8's signal to traktor (more stable, but obviously not ideal), I found a way to do it in Traktor. If you go to the send midi clock option and turn the delay all the way up to 100ms, it gives you a tenth of a second to pull your finger off of the trigger pad before the signal from traktor gets sent to the controller, so the light can get relit even after you remove your finger.
Didn't even believe about that, but great workaround! (As long as you're not using the MIDI Clock for syncing up anything else...)
Saundra Brisson
14.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
Glad you figured it out! And anytime.


I found a far better way of getting the slots to send midi feed back to the LPD8 that will show up. As opposed to using midi translator software to put a delay on traktors output to the LPD8 (which was super glitchy), or adding latency to the LPD8's signal to traktor (more stable, but obviously not ideal), I found a way to do it in Traktor. If you go to the send midi clock option and turn the delay all the way up to 100ms, it gives you a tenth of a second to pull your finger off of the trigger pad before the signal from traktor gets sent to the controller, so the light can get relit even after you remove your finger.
Samual Ogura
13.11.2011
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Okay, I found out why I am getting the wonky led response on my LPD8. The LPD8 lights a pad whenever it is depressed as a function of the hardware. So the output signal from Traktor needs to be sent to the LPD8 on a delay, otherwise it is received by the LPD8 while the pad is still depressed and the pad led turns off when you remove your finger like normal.

http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=111652




Since that pretty much settles my issue, thanks to DJdB for your answer to my questions.
Glad you figured it out! And anytime.
Saundra Brisson
13.11.2011		Okay, I found out why I am getting the wonky led response on my LPD8. The LPD8 lights a pad whenever it is depressed as a function of the hardware. So the output signal from Traktor needs to be sent to the LPD8 on a delay, otherwise it is received by the LPD8 while the pad is still depressed and the pad led turns off when you remove your finger like normal.

http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=111652




Since that pretty much settles my issue, thanks to DJdB for your answer to my questions.
Saundra Brisson
13.11.2011
Originally Posted by DJ_dB
I haven't been able to find a way to do that to mimic the decks' behavior yet. :/ As far as lighting up when it's playing, I use the PFL for each slot, which also gives me a rough indicator of whether it's completely out of sync without even putting it in my headphones.

As a side note, I've done a lot of fighting with the Sample Decks in TP2, and have essentially thrown my hands up until they fix all the problems (duplicates of the same command, labeling decks A-P+Sample Deck, acting differently for each play mode, etc.)

That's not a bad idea, the PFL thing. I was trying to use the "sample play" out, and I was getting it to work, but only if i clicked the button on the GUI. If I played the sample with my controller, nada. Very strange.

The PFL trick might bypass this issue, I'm gonna try it now.


EDIT: Well the PFL issue did work, the only problem is that the PFL out isn't selectable slot by slot. You can only select which deck you want that LED to monitor, so the light is basically an indicator for all four sample slots on that deck. So all my trigger pads light up when any of them is in use, or none light up at all.

The other weird issue I'm having is that I have the pads set to load from deck if one modifier is on, trigger the sample in that slot if no modifier is on, and finally work as a "sample play" button when a second modifier is pressed. All of that works, until I press the "sample play" while the slot is playing, then it just mutes instead of stopping? Is this typical behavior? Should I try to mapping it with the "slot start/stop" in instead of "sample play" to alleviate this issue?

SECOND EDIT: I remapped the slots using "slot start/stop" function instead of "sample play". That corrected the muting instead of stopping the slot behavior. Still can't get LED feed back unless I play the slot using the mouse.
Samual Ogura
13.11.2011		I haven't been able to find a way to do that to mimic the decks' behavior yet. :/ As far as lighting up when it's playing, I use the PFL for each slot, which also gives me a rough indicator of whether it's completely out of sync without even putting it in my headphones.

As a side note, I've done a lot of fighting with the Sample Decks in TP2, and have essentially thrown my hands up until they fix all the problems (duplicates of the same command, labeling decks A-P+Sample Deck, acting differently for each play mode, etc.)
Saundra Brisson
13.11.2011		To clarify, I wanted to have eight slot triggers, with one button that would modify the behavior of those buttons to make them regular slot play buttons, with a smooth takeover like I explained above.

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