Ean Golden style jogwheel fx in native mode!!
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Ean Golden style jogwheel fx in native mode!! Posted on: 14.09.2011 by Oralia Bleyl Made a quick mapping a la Ean Golden, designed to work in Native Mode. Allows you to toggle the right jogwheel between controlling all 3 fx in bank 2 chained mode and scratch control. Have a play around loads of fun.Loaded the tsi. to mediafire for you - http://www.mediafire.com/?1qo59fz Make sure you select fx for jogwheel mode in the prefs. This mapping is for the right jogwheel and chained fx bank 2, and will work on whatever fx you have loaded. I reccomend using beatmasher in slot one same as in the Ean vid. Use the right deck load button to toggle between controlling the fx and normal scratch/pitch bend. If you wanted to control the left deck as well just duplicate the commands but change the deck focus to deck A. Let me know how you go and any comments. Dabeef. | |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.10.2011 |
Originally Posted by Skotish
as for people asking about this S2 type mapping for other controllers it's probably easiest just to do it yourself. if i had bought an S2 from djtt tho i would probably have expected to have got that mapping with it? |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by GeekGod
i had to bundle the cygwin dll for now - as thats how i'm developing but don't *believe* i need it and can probably compile using mingw. the cygwin dll makes running it the first time take a couple of seconds too as it loads up. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by GeekGod
the link is in my sig... http://www.djranking s.com/community /sho...e=6#post349011 there is method in my madness of trying to release it on the quiet as i didn't want just anyone trying it out who didn't at least have some grasp of virtual midi ports etc. tho that theory has so far back fired as i don't believe anyone has tried it yet i wanted to leave posting a new thread and making it more public once i've had some feedback that it actually runs ok on other peoples laptops etc. tested here on win7 and at least runs on my xp laptop too. also there's zero documentation at this point but should be enough info in that thread... edit: as u know about lua etc - have a look in lib/slicer.lua for the "traktor slicer" code (that needs some fixes really) and lib/midifighter.lua for the virtual midifighter code. i'm very new to lua - so probably haven't coded it as best as it could be. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Yul
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| Julissa Serrone 28.10.2011 | I don't check out this community
much after I sold my S4.....BUT, I wanted to add. I'm a big fan of Yul and the guy knows his shit when it comes to mappings and what can be done with the S4. Dude helped me and Bigbeatz out tons when we tried the super knob loop recorder tsi mapping. I'd listen to his advice. |
| Britta Limehouse 15.10.2011 | Thanks for sharing it man |
| Mercy Mundorff 15.10.2011 | When someone comes up with a really close idea as to what the mapping really is - I would greatly appreciate knowing. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.10.2011 |
Originally Posted by Skotish
as for people asking about this S2 type mapping for other controllers it's probably easiest just to do it yourself. if i had bought an S2 from djtt tho i would probably have expected to have got that mapping with it? |
| Mercy Mundorff 15.10.2011 | Maybe I just haven't seen it - but didn't Ean say in his posting that he was going to provide the mapping he was using on the S2 in that YouTube vid showing how he was using the FX on the jogwheel(s)? Wouldn't that solve the mystery? If I'm missing something, please let me know b/c I'm getting tired of looking. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 |
Yul thanks for the heads up i was fully aware of the issues you describe but my intention was only to supply a basic mapping for any beginers wanting to have a go at achieving something similar to the vid. With respect Ean doesn't use the browser or switch decks etc. in the vid it was intended as a one off performance.
And even if I respect the intention, providing something that doesn't work is no service at all (?). Ok I believe I don't understand you. Can we agree on that? |
| Oralia Bleyl 15.09.2011 | Yul thanks for the heads up i was fully aware of the issues you describe but my intention was only to supply a basic mapping for any beginers wanting to have a go at achieving something similar to the vid. With respect Ean doesn't use the browser or switch decks etc. in the vid it was intended as a one off performance. Having said that yes in a fully functional way the mapping doesn't work i get your points. My bad, i will rebelieve my post titles next time. I look forward to your creation |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 | I don't want to believe about that anymore today ^^. But from first look it miss shift in addition, copy mode, deck type (but frankly on that, the only way to do something is to work for a specific layout but the deck types still needs to be taken into account). What else? All between themselves, that's the fun part and some additonal modifier you'll need to keep track of specific states of your load button? Well, no, no, no, don't want to believe about it anymore. Note that it can be done in two parts, left side, right side. It's easier to work upon, and then duplicate the other side, easier to see what you do. Have a look at his thread/file, it's a light version of what I'm using (mainly it has less fx presets and only two units where i do use 4 - could be used for 4 fx units actually) but it's quite exactly what I implemented as a system. Big hole missing, the copy mode. If you can find a way to duplicate the copy mode, could be a good solution as I (believe) I covered all the rest. http://www.djranking s.com/community /sho...juggle+mode+s4 There's just a bit of a read , and the mist about the fx that needs to be reselected. I know some people used it without any fuss as long as you don't use the copy mode. Well whatever at least it can be interesting to have a look at it to see how and if I covered everything with the modifier system. I even covered the switch from midi mode (as funily enough, when you're in browse mode, if you switch to midi mode, when you revert back, you're not in browse mode anymore, but because you changed the type of messages sent, your mapping, didn't get the info). Or did I cover that? I don't remember. As said I don't want to believe about that again, it was quite a headache and I prefer to wait for NI to come with a more opened approach to the native mapping. |
| Nedra Fresneda 16.09.2011 | Soooo, started playing with this concept a bit while using the default map and FX mode. Think we'll need at least 11 modifiers. First, we need to cancel the natural motion of the 3 |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by GeekGod
i had to bundle the cygwin dll for now - as thats how i'm developing but don't *believe* i need it and can probably compile using mingw. the cygwin dll makes running it the first time take a couple of seconds too as it loads up. |
| Rosina Steinkuehler 15.09.2011 | @zestoi Awesome! I can understand the 'silent' release. I am going to check it out. Midifighter should be here next week sometime (using a Maschine right now). |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by GeekGod
the link is in my sig... http://www.djranking s.com/community /sho...e=6#post349011 there is method in my madness of trying to release it on the quiet as i didn't want just anyone trying it out who didn't at least have some grasp of virtual midi ports etc. tho that theory has so far back fired as i don't believe anyone has tried it yet i wanted to leave posting a new thread and making it more public once i've had some feedback that it actually runs ok on other peoples laptops etc. tested here on win7 and at least runs on my xp laptop too. also there's zero documentation at this point but should be enough info in that thread... edit: as u know about lua etc - have a look in lib/slicer.lua for the "traktor slicer" code (that needs some fixes really) and lib/midifighter.lua for the virtual midifighter code. i'm very new to lua - so probably haven't coded it as best as it could be. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Yul
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| Rosina Steinkuehler 15.09.2011 | @zestoi I am a huge lua fan (wrote BSDInstaller using lua) and every time you mention midimasher my mouth drools. When can we play with it? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 |
in hindsite my comments before were kind of over the top - so apols for that. i woke up in a pretty bad mood today. that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it
Now can we all love each other and have cookies so I can be a jerk another time. Because THAT WILL HAPPEN!!!! You're warned. WTF yes I can be a dick, especially behind a keyboard. |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 | wow... i'm glad that i don't tend to mod other peoples mappings nice explanation of all the pitfalls tho. i was starting to believe that some of the lua code i use for my midimasher seems too complicated but i had forgotten how complicated things can get when u only have traktor's modifiers to work with. in hindsite my comments before were kind of over the top - so apols for that. i woke up in a pretty bad mood today. that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 | I can be a jerk, that is all true. I'll be honored if someone would copy that and take it as his signature so that would be a proof of a cosmic law^^ Ok, I don't want to make a full thread so l'll continue here, especially because I'm just repeating myself:
Sorry but i am still in the dark as to what you personally are trying to achieve that currently can't be done. Can you enlighten me?
* either you negate or set up something in opposition to a native function (like adding a function with shift on the cue buttons, so you create antoher toggle when cue is used with shift) * you want to add stuff to something that already exists. Depending on which controls you want to do that, here is where the harder part arrives. That's the second point we are interested in this case as we want to use the native option for the jogwheel to control other FX(s) than the third slot or parameter. But first before jumping into that, there are some rules to be followed: you want to produce a system that will be consistent and that cant' be disrupted. In other words if you set up any kind of modifier system it must be 'true' all the time, otherwise you're going to mess with some critical controls. In the case of the S4, you have to duplicate the behaviour from both the hardware and software and cover all that can happen. A simple example in our case: we use the load button for fx activation so you need a toggling modifier to represent that (from 0 to 1 and back). One modifier condition taken. But you can still use shift + load button. That's a second modifier condition. But there's the browse mode, because the load button still loads when in browse mode. You need to create another modifier so when in browse mode your first modifier will not touched. That's already a third modifier condition. Other things have to be taken into account like the layer we're working with. If you switch from deck B to deck D for example, the load button/fx activation is disengaged so you have to create that for your first modifier. Likewise if you switch deck and if your deck D is a sample deck, the load button doesn't work for fx activation, so that's something you also need to preview. And if you revert back to deck B that's also something that's need to be represented, etc, etc, etc So one of the first issue to overcome is being obliged to create all those events/modifiers, that's already several of them, within your first modifier when you have only two modifier conditions available. Even if it's a bit complex, not a big deal, there are ways to use multiple layers of modifiers inside a modifier. Of course some of those modifiers have themselves an influence upon others so also something you want to recreate right? If you don't do that you can't trust your load button. It's not finished... But if you created the browse mode, you also have to duplicate the copy mode as they are using the same button but in different ways, one is a toggling modifier, the other being an hold type but with a potential sequence of a lot of different things to be pushed (holding browse button , then using a sample play button or cue button would make you enter the copy mode, but then you can stop there so it reverts back to normal... Just this one is funky to recreate.... Ok, let's say we are quite good at solving all the above and we set up something that works. That was only the first part. The second part is the jogwheel itself and it's own behaviour. It doesn't react the same if you're using shift, if the load button is engaged or not, if you're in browse mode, if you use a sample deck (as there's a modifier system to be set up here as you can use the jogwheel to pitch bend one or more samples), so that means, the deck layer(s), the layout, etc, etc... That's not finished. Both the two parts above need to be interacting with each other. Do you see the pattern? In itself it's complex, even with some mapping skills, whatever in the end, the controller manager allowing you only two modifier conditions will stop you at a point. Even by using some advanced mapping technique. The native mode is using an integrated coded system you just can't reproduce fully. So a simple example in your file. You just didn't replicate the browse mode or the copy mode. So as soon as you touch this specific button the modifier you set up is wrong and next time you touch the jogwheel and/or the load button, you're going to mess with something big time. Your system just don't work, it's not a personal thing of mine to say that. It's not even working for one deck, not doing it for at least two decks shows you didn't grasp the whole problematic. Can I say that without someone telling me I'm mean or harsh? Ok , ok , I'm provoking on purpose here ^^ Now to reduce the overall complexity of all this, one can decide to say that a system can only work for a specific layout (so you don't have to cover some issues), or that you'll never change from a layer to another, or never switch to midi mode, or... So you put restrictions in places which is ok (to an extend) but even like that you'll have great difficulty to cope with some obstacles. In all cases you need to have a reliable system, I cant' stress that enough. You create modifiers and then you realize you need other modifiers, and others linked to that, and others, and others, and also that all those different modifiers have interactions between themselves. Do you get a bit better now? So unless proven wrong, for the current knowledge - and the tools - at our disposal at the time being, it's not doable to produce a system that will be true, working and reliable 100% of the time, to be used in conjunction with the native mapping. Best options for the time being: - I can offer a system that works only for one layout and prevents you to use the copy mode. Not good enough. - you do a full user mapping or midi mapping , dropping the native one so you get rid of all restrictions but the ones you put yourself. But that's a shame to loose all the clever functions and great led feedback. - we wait for NI to open a bit more the embedded mapping. - I'm fully wrong and all the above is a pile of nonsense (which would be great f... news, honestly). |
| Nedra Fresneda 15.09.2011 | ^This, he is really just trying to help on a quite complex subject. It does sound harsh but what the OP provides is nowhere near close to what he promises in the thread title. Still, I appreciate the effort. I believe he was just trying to explain you that you REALLY have to know what you are doing if you plan to do this in native mode since there are lots of things that can go wrong. I was planning to attempt this myself but I've been quite busy lately. Maybe I'll give it a shot when 2.1 is out (since the default map might be updated to incorporate some of the new features). |
| Leeanna Ayla 15.09.2011 | I'll back Yul 97.83590288% of the time on whatever he does or says. He helps noobs and pros alike with extremely complex mappings. Often times I can barely wrap my head around some of his ideas, much less come up with them!! I do believe he may have come off a little harsh at the very beginning, but I believe that was more a lost in translation deal and not him trying to be a jerk. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 | A bit later and I'll make a thread with all that needs to be solved |
| Oralia Bleyl 15.09.2011 | Sorry but i am still in the dark as to what you personally are trying to achieve that currently can't be done. Can you enlighten me? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 |
Just trying to spread some love note hate!! (opps double exclamation)
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| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 |
then i suspect you failed both objectives with flying colors
^^ Ok seriously, and I'm one of the first to help when I can, like many others. So I don't have anything to prove on that. And I'm learning much from others too. And on the subject, within another thread I gave directions and tips, were they taken into account? No. And really it's not about ME giving tips, it could have been any other, that's not the point. So if you come, not taking into account other's people experiences on purpose and claiming you find solutions in very straighforward way, don't serve me the 'you beat down noobs', as that will really depend on the person on the other side.
true the bar to entry has been lowered but thats no reason to beat down noobs.
anyway - i was only trying to point out that the comments were harsh and overall unhelpful. there seems to be too much of that on this community
these days...
Hopefully I'm not representative of the whole community anyway (hopefully) and/ or of the community itself, I'm sure Dabeef is aware of that. As I said earlier I appreciated the effort he's done, and may be some will find what he offers interesting (whatever I believe). |
| Oralia Bleyl 15.09.2011 | Hey Yul, Maybe you could fill me in.. I've seen plenty of new users on this community struggling with basic mappings and after watching eans last video thought i would share a mapping with anyone trying to use the jogwheels to control fx similar to the vid. This isn't supposed to be some next level shit just a bit of fun. I fail to see how this mapping is 'totaly false as it achieves nothing' as it acheives exactly what i intended it to do and it works for me in exactly the manner i described earlier. I am not sue what you are after with your comments i have no issues with how the mapping breaking down. Could you elaborate? Maybe we aren;t even on the same page? One thing that is noted is the use of punctuation in my title if i had known it would get this type of response. Just trying to spread some love note hate!! (opps double exclamation) |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by zykill
this *is* the "real dj scene" or at least as much a part of it as turntablism. i started out on turntables around 85 so by rights i should be trying to bash down new users too? i don't believe so.... anyway - i was only trying to point out that the comments were harsh and overall unhelpful. there seems to be too much of that on this community these days... |
| Vivienne Cowins 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by zestoi
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| Chasidy Heckenbach 15.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Yul
there is criticism, constructive criticism and downright unhelpfull sarcastic criticism and i believe you fall into the latter... would be good to encourage new users - esp when trying out mappings etc - not try to kick them down. tho i do agree the double exclamation marks at the end of the title was a tad over the top |
| Kecia Wnukowski 15.09.2011 | Is this a joke?
Hey Yul all good, might not be exactly what your after but for a lot people this is something they have been trying to achieve. Its only a basic mapping not quite as intricate as Ean's but it can be developed.
Just to be clear, you didn't achieve anything here to all. Your file is not helping, it's not even basic as it's fully false, you didn't preview the minimum things to be covered. It's not a solution, even for one deck, as soon as you do one thing or two the "mapping" is disrupted. Now It's not an opinion, it's a fact. So great to have tried something but as far as it goes, you didn't prove anything or do anything of interest so don't tell me 'it can be developed' when obviously you don't have a clue at all, even if the effort can be recognised and appreciated (and that's great). But that's not even a a step forward towards a solution, so it's not about "what I'm after" personally. ps: and I'm really sorry if that does sound harsh, I'm not trying to hurt feelings or be mean. And actually may be you are right, may be you or some will find that satisfactory. There are even people who believe David Guetta is the best dj ever so I know anything can happen. |
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