S4 - juggle mode - video+ tsi files ;)
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S4 - juggle mode - video+ tsi files ;) Posted on: 07.03.2011 by Kecia Wnukowski DISCLAIMER: A lot of people asked me about this so I thought I could provide some files to be tried. Those are a test that needs someone else's input. I believe it works but I may have missed things that you may spot and if that's the case and if it can be fixed, cool. Otherwise it won't be that useful as a solution for a juggle mode.I don't make any promises. Please leave your feedback here if you tried the files if you have time. Thanks. What is it? A S4 user custom mapping (ie not midi) that comes in addition to the native one that will allow to call 8 fx presets (4 for group mode, 4 for single mode) and to use the jogwheel(s) as main control over those presets. The jogwheels are set up so when the load button is lit , the corresponding jogwheel when touched and/or turned will activate the Fx(s) and act on some parameters. Is that a replicate of the fader Fx/jogwheel juggle mode? No that's not doable in the current states of things. Swallow it and move, stop asking the same question 4 times a week, it's just not possible right now. The only way to do it is to use midi. It's not even possible right now using a full custom user mapping for a very simple reason: unlike Traktor, knobs and faders can't be set as button with the S4 (that would have allowed to use one of those types fo controls to engage on & off an effect; but then that may change with TP2 so wait and see). What I'm offering here is the best I could find a solution for: - that most people could use and that could come as close to the original idea even with much more limited controls (only the jogwheel) - within the limitations given either by the software, hardware and/or the controller manager - and still using the embedded mapping. Here's an example I did yesterday using the files (this is not a tutorial, only an example using different features of the S4 and 'my' juggle mode). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFZT5KCNRww Track: Soliquid - Tapei Pocock Salata (Quivver remix) + samples & FX samples I've posted below the original track if you want to hear it untouched. The headphones are a custom painted Seinheiser HD25-1 II. The orange knobs come from Djs-face, the blue, white & gray knobs are the stock ones that I just painted like the line faders with acrylic paint. What is the pre-requisite? It can only work with the following layout: 2 track decks, 2 samples decks, 2 Fx units It won't work in any other layout, actually you'll mess with critical controls if you try it with another layout or try to change the type of decks while using it All other view options remain unaffected (what you see or don't want to see). The option for the jogwheel to act on FX can only be activated when on deck layers A or B: like it's normal state the load button has only the load function when on decks C&D, set up as sample decks. That's not something that can be changed or modified. What are the Fx presets? Beatmasher/delay/delay ("Beatlay", group preset 1) Beatmasher/f92lfo/iceverb ("Beatfo", group preset 2) Beatmasher/digital lofi/reverb ("Beatverb", group preset 3) Filter/Mulholland drive/Reverb ("Sanchez - the dirty filter", group preset 4) Gater (single preset 1) Beatmasher (single preset 2) Delay (single preset 3) Delay freeze (single preset 4) What are the things I need to do to make that work? - As stated above, the layout must be 2 tracks decks (a&b), 2 sample decks (c&d) and two Fx units. - be sure to have all the FXs within your effects list inside the software's preferences - in the S4 preferences, activate the option "FX" for the jogwheels - in the S4 preferences, define your favorite FXs ("direct FX") as beatmasher, delay, delay in this order. - be sure you're out of browse mode - be sure to not have the load buttons lit - be sure your on deck layers A & B - in the controller manager, use the ADD button to import the two files. - go to each file, as it may happen that the effects previewed may change during import (silly isn't it), I've added comments where the lines must be changed to fit the desired effect and to which effect, so change those accordingly on both files. How does that work then? *press shift+ twice either 'Fx on', 'Fx button 1', 'Fx button 2' or 'Fx button 3' to call preset1 ,2,3 or 4 respectively. This will call the wanted preset and set the parameters on the Fx unit. *Assign the fx unit to one or more channels * press the load button to activate the jogwheel control over the presets. * touching the jogwhell will activate the fx(s) * turning the jogwheel will act on the preset * releasing the jogwheel will tunr off the FX(s) and eventually reset some parameters How does the jogwheel(s) act on presets? - Group mode: D/W to 100%, activate the three FXs, act on the 1st Fx's parameter, releasing the jogwheel will set the D/W to 50% - Single mode: activate the FX, act on the third parameter If you want the why I choose those Fxs and why the settings are like that, why the jogwheels act on a very specific and rigid manner on the presets, and if you could change some stuff, I'll give some details and reasons below (within the post after this one). If you're not interested in the details, fine, just know that everything has been chosen for a specific reason. The counterpart is that everything is quite rigid, the presets and some Fx settings aren't the 'best' (I should say the ones I like the most) but I had to do it that way for this solution (I mean there are other ways that could allow for more flexibility but it's just not the same to produce, understand and use. What I am offering is A solution, not THE solution). Is there still an alternative option to search for FXs as you replaced the current ones for calling presets? Yes - press shift + (turn) D/W knob when in single mode to search for an advanced version of an effect. - press shift + (turn) either the knobs 1,2 or 3 to choose an effect for slot 1,2 &3 respectively. Note: the fx parameter that is linked to the knob will change. Not a big deal if you're currently trying to change the Fx anyway. I could have blocked the movement but it wasn't that much interesting. Additional note: I've included an LFO reset button when you're in group mode on the 'FX on button' for each FX unit. Is there any other alteration to the controls from the FX units? No everything is working as normal apart from the way to call FX presets, how to search for Fx and the LFO reset I added. | |
| Kecia Wnukowski 09.03.2011 | Hello. I'm going to upload the files once again, I don't understand. Did you set up your favorites as beatmasher, delay, delay? Did you get the same FX as Viceversa? Are all effects within the list used by Traktor? Well that's a mystery for me. If someone has a clue, please let me know. Yes you can have a set of FX for each unit of course, personally speaking that's not something I like. I prefer to believe as left hand side for deck A, right handside for deck B. Just note that the preset that is your favorite will have to be included in both. But do as you see fit, your call, it's just a base so adapt it to what you really like. Use my third post as a rough guideline to set up things. |
| Viola Bunner 09.03.2011 | Hi Yul i uploades the files and the same thing happened with the fx selection but i changed it to match what you said and its working great. im going to have a play toevening just wondering as there is 2 tsi files could you have one set of fx for one side then an other set of fx for the other side? just to get a few more options. any way thanks so much for posting the map im one of those morons thats not good at mapping so now i will be able to see what you have done and play around with it a bit to learn more for my self. Thanks heaps |
| Kecia Wnukowski 08.03.2011 | That's the track untouched for those interested in making a comparison between the original and the video I posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv0RtFxQbsE |
| Byron Dipple 08.03.2011 | Yeah I figured that much about the Add instead of edit and just read your last third post. I'll have to play around with it more later when i get home and I'll do some troubleshooting of reloading the files and seeing if the effects still dont match up. But its really not a big deal as i already started changing some of the selections and parameters last evening
Just wanted to say thank you again for your very informative and detailed post! I'll be sure to provide some more feedback later this evening |
| Kecia Wnukowski 08.03.2011 | I'll have a look at the files I uploaded just to be sure but that's strange. If eventually you find out why, please let me/us know. How about the rest? Did you read my third post? Does that work as intended? Edit: just checked the files, it seems ok, I just don't understand at all. However I wrote in the original post to use the edit button within the controller manager where it is the ADD button of course. I'll correct the posts as you or I may spot mistakes. |
| Byron Dipple 08.03.2011 | Yeah i didnt understand how it happened either lol but I had to change each of the fx assignments for the selection functions in the map because for some reason they were assigned to completely different effects. The only other mapping I am using is one I made for assigning key/pitch change using the gain knobs but that shouldnt have any effect on your map. Has anyone else tested these mappings and can provide on some feedback about if they see similar effect mappings as I did? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 08.03.2011 | Third post edited with the FX settings. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 08.03.2011 |
Didn't see it mentioned above (unless I missed it) but you are still able to utilize the load button to load a song into deck a or b if you hold the shift button while you press it. I'm speaking of when you're NOT in browser mode so thats cool.
Preset 2: reverse grain/filter:92 pulse/digital lofi
Preset 3: reverse grain/ringmodulator/filter Preset 4: flanger pulse/transpose stretch/filter I've just checked, the presets are correctly written within the mapping, gater being a gater, etc, etc...The only thing that is not integrated with the mapping is the first preset (beatmasher/delay/delay) as those are the ones you are supposed to set by yourself in your preferences. More info from you would be cool because right now I just don't understand.
and in single mode preset 1 (gater) was set to iceverb instead. the rest of the presets matched up fine. However, I was able to simply change the assignment in the mapping and everything works fine
Just so you know there are some stuff you'll be able to change if you want to but I need to write that down. |
| Byron Dipple 07.03.2011 | also i cant seem to figure out the LFO reset button, or more so what it is supposed to do. |
| Byron Dipple 07.03.2011 | omg thank you so much I usually dont even mess with too many effects while I'm mixing but this is just way too much fun man lol Couple things I noticed: Didn't see it mentioned above (unless I missed it) but you are still able to utilize the load button to load a song into deck a or b if you hold the shift button while you press it. I'm speaking of when your NOT in browser mode so thats cool. My group presets did not match up what you listed for groups 2,3 and 4 as mine showed the following: Preset 2: reverse grain/filter:92 pulse/digital lofi Preset 3: reverse grain/ringmodulator/filter Preset 4: flanger pulse/transpose stretch/filter and in single mode preset 1 (gater) was set to iceverb instead. the rest of the presets matched up fine. However, I was able to simply change the assignment in the mapping and everything works fine |
| Lenny Calmes 07.03.2011 | Awesome post! Thanks |
| Kecia Wnukowski 07.03.2011 | I hope I didn't create too much expectation if that doesn't work. Good point, didn't even believe for a second about that. The way Fx units are set up within the current version of the S4 (and the way they are applied in the hardware is way too restrictive). I wish I could have 4 fx units, still apply units 1&2 to any channels, and still having direct control over units 1&2 even on deck layers C&D. Hey cool if you can provide some feedback, apart from the "system" in itself, we need an eye how the presets are called for you, how do they react. i'll give the details tomorrow about the FX themselves and the choices so one can understand why they were made and hopefully may be come with a much brighter idea than mine. I'll also add what can be changed very easily. On the other hand, it is possible to create something for 4 fx units. But as mentioned in my original post it will probably be a file (or a set of tsi files) for each layout, only one solution active for a specific layout. Samples were 'cut' from tracks (grabbed by the loop recorder before). Main additional sample is Green Velvet - Flash (remix by Jamie Jones). I'm playing with some of those during the video with the juggle mode and the rest are FX samples. Some combinations are recorded within the loop recorder so it can create a pattern. This time it sounds ok (sometimes not to be honest ^^). I'm not even sure where I got the samples from (I believe from a free pack from SoundsToSamples, but don't ask me which one I don't have a clue). My sample folder is a mess that needs to be tidied up. |
| Leeanna Ayla 07.03.2011 |
Originally Posted by Yul
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| Leeanna Ayla 07.03.2011 | Yul, you are a LEGAND!!! I'll try this out and let you know how it works. |
| Donovan Mandy 07.03.2011 | This looks really cool, going to give this a go as soon as I get the chance! edit: any chance I could ask where you got some of the samples/one-shots from? I really liked some of the ones I heard in there, did you just cut them out of tracks or do you have somewhere else you get them from? |
| Kecia Wnukowski 07.03.2011 | Why the choices/ details about the FX presets? Natively (ie without any additional mapping) and as long as you set the jogwheel option to fx mode in your preferences, the load button activates the use of the jogwheel to: - act on the third Fx slot in group mode - act on the third parameter (usually time/depth) in single mode - releasing the jogwheel will reset the amount (3rd fx slot or 3rd parameter) to your own snapshot for this FX or group I believe it's limited and sometimes unpractical for several reasons: - The action on the third fx slot in group mode sometimes not being the best one to act upon depending on the choice of the group you choose. - why the hell does that not activate the fx or group of Fx itself/themselves - it makes more sense on advanced mode (single), but then the reset of the 3rd paramater may be an unwanted feature for many effect (mostly the ones that leaves a trail like reverbs, delays, etc...). So I wanted to change how that worked but I was faced with several issues within what I set up: - the only way to stop the jogwheel to act upon the third slot/parameter is to give a defined value for it both to the jog's 'touch' and to the jog's 'encoder'. There's no other way. The rest is a matter of compromises. - within the system I provide, all the group presets on one hand and the single presets on the other hand MUST share some common settings as you cant' define all specifications for each preset individually(once again this A solution, not THE solution as there are other ways but that's not something I wanted to cover here just for the sake of not adding too much complexity). - there are some presets and to an extend some single ones that I believe are "mandatory" or ones people are asking for (delay freeze being one). In group mode those are the shared characteristics and why: - D/W will be set at 100% mainly because of the beatmasher - D/W will be set back at 50% once the platter is released because of the first preset that uses delay (because of the trail left) - the D/W amount can be changed but you'll have to have the same settings whatever the group preset - all 2nd fx slots amounts in the group mode can be changed to your liking, it doesn't really matter - all 3rd FX has a defined value of 25%, that could be changed but the same value has too be applied to all group presets. Samewise if you change the FX within the presets to make your own, you'll have to find several FX to be used for this slot that can work (sound) ok with the value you might want to implement (and at 100%/50% D/W in our case). That's why I wrote before that some settings weren't the 'best' but I had to find a compromise with all my choices when defining this value. For example the Beatfo has the iceverb set at 25% where it would have sounded better at 50%...but then that wouldn't have really sounded good for the other 3rd slots. Does that make sense? - you can remove one or more FX to be acted upon by the jogwheel by integrating a "no effect" within the FX select functions instead (apart from the first preset). For example you may want for this 4th preset (the "dirty filter") to remove the reverb I integrated. You don't even have to touch the other settings, it doesn't matter, the slot will be empty. - the first preset (Beatlay) uses twice the delay because I wanted to have both a delay and a delay freeze accessible independently as advanced FX. I did try with delay t3 instead either in the second spot or in the third and both were not satisfactory (at least for me, but I don't pretend to have good tastes anyway so) - actually you could decide to change all presets and the way they work but just bear in mind you'll have to believe about how those will work together, as single fx and having to share some characteristics. - you may see if you have a look inside the files that to be able for the jogwheel to act upon a parameter I had to multiply up to 7 or 8 times the same settings for the encoder. If you feel that the movement of the jogwheel must be amplified or reduced just add or remove one or more duplicates. Single mode is a bit more straightforward: - D/W, first and second parameter can be changed for each preset, there's no issue - However 3rd parameter is set at 50% when you touch the jogwheel on purpose(that's the shared characteristic) as it was the setting that made the much sense for all presets. May I suggest if you use snapshots, you may want to change those for this setting and for those effects so it makes sense globally. - I amplified a bit the movement of the encoder for the third parameter, you can remove the line I added if you believe that's not necessary. - the first preset is actually free of choice, I put a gater but then you can put whatever you want - 2nd, 3rd and 4th presets are linked to the FX preferences you set up (so here Beatmasher, delay, delay). So if you change the first preset in group mode just remember that it has an impact here. But you can free yourself of this if that's something you want to do. I previously wrote a post about that, but just for convenience: let say your favorites FX in the preferences are beatmasher, flanger and reverb. That's your first preset in group mode (and your favorites) but that's not the ones you want for your preset 2,3 and 4th preset in single mode (bear with me I added a 4th single preset but I'm referering to this one as the first, ok?), and you want instead digital lofi, f92lfo and slicer. What you can do is going to the effects tab within the preferences inside the software. Find your three favorites FX (the ones set up within the s4 preferences) within your list of effects. Now just put the ones you want to replace them with, UNDER each one respectively (so in this example the list should be beatmasher/Lofi; flanger/f92lfo; reverb/slicer). Go to the controller manager and find the empty lines 'effect select' I didn't set up (I left those on purpose in case for you and left the comment 'in case' inside the lines' comment). Set the function for the corresponding button but then set it as a button that DEC (decrease) and tick invert. What happens is that the native call for your favorite FX will happen but as you release the button it will go down through the list by one spot. Hope it's quite clear, ad I hope it will give you a better understanding if you want to change stuff inside what I've done. That's it for now, hope the system works for you and that I covered everything. Sorry for the long posts but a bit of insight was needed. As a side note, I just wanted to say thanks to DJranking s and to the community for all the inspiration and all I've learned from you guys. |
| Kecia Wnukowski 07.03.2011 | How the hell did you do that? I created a 'simple' modifier system that replicates what's going on when you act on some controls and that allow an event to happen (either on deck layer A or B, load button lit and not in browse mode). I tried to make sure that in a given layout I covered all that can happen to the load button. What can go wrong while using the files and this set up? That's the question(s). *I believe I covered everything, but I'm not sure at 100%, may be there are functions I'm not using usually and so not familiar with that I may not have taken into account. You'll tell. Any combinations of 'going in and out of midi mode', load button, shift, deck select buttons, etc.. must be tested. I had a problem with going into midi mode but I believe I covered it too, still something you could check. However there are "rules" you must follow: - don't change anything directly on the laptop (software I mean) that is supposed to be done on the hardware. Modifiers are most of the time a duplicate of a physical movement. So for example if you press directly the browse mode within the software, you'll "un-synchronise" the mapping itself (unless you get back to normal once again with the software) because the modifier's value (linked to the activation of the mode) inside the mapping wouldn't relate to the browse mode actual state. Get it? - always close Traktor NOT IN BROWSE MODE. All modifiers are reset to 0 when you open Traktor. Usually the deck focus gets back to A&B even if you closed the software on decks C&D, the only thing I can believe off that isn't reset is the browse mode (you close in browse mode, it opens back in browse mode and so the modifiers don't replicate the state). If it happens, before doing anything just get out of the browse mode within the software back to decks view. *Also, because of the rigid way I chose to work on for the presets, their settings and the way the jogwheel acts, there may be conflicts with your own FX preferences (snapshots and depending on the option you chose for remembering FXs when called). Especially because like the way it is supposed to work natively, releasing the jogwheel resets either the 3rd fx in group mode or the third parameter in single mode. So there may be some tweaking to do to make all that to fit together. You'll need to read my next post to get why I did the choices I made to get a better view. Can't it be done for different layouts? There are different contexts that may affect the S4, main ones being the type of decks, the number of fx units, the potential change of layout and some other stuff. Then there are states that I would call major and minor states that need to be taken into account (deck layers, browse mode, mid mode, etc..) and then, events that apply on the load button, the jogwheels, the deck select buttons and some other controls. Each one of those elements having a potential impact on others and may change how controls react and what they do. So the more different things that may change other stuff, the more complex a mapping would have to be. And it can be VERY complex or near impossible to replicate what's happening on the software/hardware (considering the limitations of the controller manager). Actually what I'm giving here can be easily changed to be adapted to another type of layout. Will I provide that? No. Why did you choose this specific layout? Is that what you're using yourself This layout (the mapping) is simple to make (if it works and pass the test of users of course). What I'm using usually is based on the same idea (replicating contexts, events and states) but is way more complicated, mapping wise, and is still full of holes that I need to find a solution for. And I'm using 4 Fx units. And because most of the time people who asked for tsi files are people who don't have a clue about the basics of mapping in Traktor without even talking about modifiers. I did the files especially this week-end just for the community , trying to come with a solution that could be given like that and that don't need much knowledge in mappings. Why there are two files? Just because I usually work for one side and then duplicate the other once the first part is fully tested. This method usually is simpler for me when I'm creating a mapping. Here it could have been one single file actually Why didn't you put an option to route the FX preset(s) to the deck depending on the layer you're working on? Because I tend to believe that any system must be consistent. As the load button is only a load button on decks C&D when they are sample decks, you'll have to go back to layer A or B to use the juggle mode anyway so it doesn't make sense. It could be added if you want to do it yourself (I did it in the first place, then removed it). You can still call the presets when you're either on layer C and/ or D anyway as that can come handy. Is that a finished version? If it works and as long as TP2 isn't released yes (apart from the feedback you may provide). I cant' predict how it will fit with the new version that will have more options than the traktor S4 version. And when it will be released I'll try to do something for me anyway so we'll see - just for the sake of integrating may be some of the new effects. Can I use different mappings with it? I cant' really tell as that would depend on how you map your stuff but just remember this specific juggle mode works only in the layout I indicated and no other. Once again I'm showing a way, not the way so one can eventually adapt my idea to his needs. |
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