Novation Remote Zero SL, replace encoders by potentiometers?

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Novation Remote Zero SL, replace encoders by potentiometers?
Posted on: 04.11.2008 by marija dunn
Hi,

I have a Novation Remote Zero SL that I use for controlling traktor.
On the Novation are 8 rotaty encoders with infinite rotation and 8 rotary potentiometers with 0 - 270 degree rotation.
Now I would like to have all finite rotary potentiometers.
Thus I would like to replace the encoders by potentiometers.

Is this goal feasible?

If so, how would I go about doing it?
Iola Obradovich
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
I'll definitely look into that more.
I recomend it, its suppriginly easy one you get over the basic setup. I love messing around hacking stoff with them =).

A digitizer is like a touch pad pretty much, im using the ones you find on a nintendo DS (very cheap on ebay) to get 'kaoss pad' type control for effects.

Best of luck for your project!
marija dunn
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by CerebralExcretion
I actualy ment that you connect the digital out pins directly to the novation cicuit board inplace of the encoders and use the arduino to emulate their output (one of two inputs on for one pulse). This way you only have the origional putput from your controller going through a single conection.

As i said im using this technique to alter my x-session to have the choice of two pots or a digitizer (achived by adding some aditional push switches used to control the output of the arduino) for each channel and its working great so far.
Very cool, i believe i understood what you meant, but it seems easier to me to not emulate the encoders, so you dont have to measure and stuff, though that could be seen as the fun part . But I know a lot more about developing software than I do altering electronics. (for example, I don't really know what a digitizer is, I presume some sort of analog to digital converter (maybe an encoder?). I've used a multimeter, but that has been more than 10 years ago in physics class,...)

I read a little more about the arduino nano, it seems to have 8 analog inputs, for 8 potentiometers. It can control some LEDs (always fun), it connects via USB, it has opensource software to control it (in a language I know). Seems ideal, not too expensive, great hardware! I'll definitely look into that more.
Iola Obradovich
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
put in some pots connect them to the aruino and use max/msp to transform the incomming signals to midi signals for traktor
I actualy ment that you connect the digital out pins directly to the novation cicuit board inplace of the encoders and use the arduino to emulate their output (one of two inputs on for one pulse). This way you only have the origional putput from your controller going through a single conection.

As i said im using this technique to alter my x-session to have the choice of two pots or a digitizer (achived by adding some aditional push switches used to control the output of the arduino) for each channel and its working great so far.
Rebbecca Fennell
09.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
The encoders as eq is not an option for me, its really essential to be able to set them precise and quick, which is not possible with the encoders. For example bringin in the bass up to a certain precise point withing half a beat or so, thats is very hard to do with the encoders.
+ I dont want to watch the screen every time i touch the eqs, which i do a lot using the 4 band xone 92 eq.


Okay, well you still have the option of just making an eq page on your template. The templates can be up to 40 pages long. With the pages assigned to buttons, you can flip between parameters in a split second.

If that's not good enough maybe you need to look into a cheap knob box to act as a dedicated surface because that is the best solution you're going to get out of the novation
marija dunn
09.02.2010
Originally Posted by diezdiazgiant
.. I would use the endless encoders for the eqs on deck one and two, ..
The encoders as eq is not an option for me, its really essential to be able to set them precise and quick, which is not possible with the encoders. For example bringin in the bass up to a certain precise point withing half a beat or so, thats is very hard to do with the encoders.
+ I dont want to watch the screen every time i touch the eqs, which i do a lot using the 4 band xone 92 eq.

@CerebralExcretion: Sounds really interesting, I should ask my engineer friend for advise and help probably.
It seems it can communicate with the pc directly, so maybe just through the encoders out, put in some pots connect them to the aruino and use max/msp to transform the incomming signals to midi signals for traktor
Xavier Emanuels
05.11.2008
Originally Posted by ejac
hmm, maybe, but i would have to use a midi translator or something, because i have to turn the knob 2*360deg to go from 0->127.

They have their uses but, the way i use them (for controlling the fx knobs of traktor), they are not so effective. And I already use the potentiometer ones for eq'ing, which really isn't doable with the encoder ones.
Dont tell Tekki you are getting rid of your rotaries

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to rotaries really - sure the are useful for some things but they feel absolutly horrid which makes them useless for going crazy with effects controllerism style.

You might as well give the mod a go, its not like it will be destroying the unit as you could allways put the original rotary knob back in.

The fact that they work in both absolute and relative modes certainly helps the situation.
marija dunn
04.11.2008		Hi,

I have a Novation Remote Zero SL that I use for controlling traktor.
On the Novation are 8 rotaty encoders with infinite rotation and 8 rotary potentiometers with 0 - 270 degree rotation.
Now I would like to have all finite rotary potentiometers.
Thus I would like to replace the encoders by potentiometers.

Is this goal feasible?

If so, how would I go about doing it?
Iola Obradovich
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
I'll definitely look into that more.
I recomend it, its suppriginly easy one you get over the basic setup. I love messing around hacking stoff with them =).

A digitizer is like a touch pad pretty much, im using the ones you find on a nintendo DS (very cheap on ebay) to get 'kaoss pad' type control for effects.

Best of luck for your project!
marija dunn
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by CerebralExcretion
I actualy ment that you connect the digital out pins directly to the novation cicuit board inplace of the encoders and use the arduino to emulate their output (one of two inputs on for one pulse). This way you only have the origional putput from your controller going through a single conection.

As i said im using this technique to alter my x-session to have the choice of two pots or a digitizer (achived by adding some aditional push switches used to control the output of the arduino) for each channel and its working great so far.
Very cool, i believe i understood what you meant, but it seems easier to me to not emulate the encoders, so you dont have to measure and stuff, though that could be seen as the fun part . But I know a lot more about developing software than I do altering electronics. (for example, I don't really know what a digitizer is, I presume some sort of analog to digital converter (maybe an encoder?). I've used a multimeter, but that has been more than 10 years ago in physics class,...)

I read a little more about the arduino nano, it seems to have 8 analog inputs, for 8 potentiometers. It can control some LEDs (always fun), it connects via USB, it has opensource software to control it (in a language I know). Seems ideal, not too expensive, great hardware! I'll definitely look into that more.
Iola Obradovich
10.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
put in some pots connect them to the aruino and use max/msp to transform the incomming signals to midi signals for traktor
I actualy ment that you connect the digital out pins directly to the novation cicuit board inplace of the encoders and use the arduino to emulate their output (one of two inputs on for one pulse). This way you only have the origional putput from your controller going through a single conection.

As i said im using this technique to alter my x-session to have the choice of two pots or a digitizer (achived by adding some aditional push switches used to control the output of the arduino) for each channel and its working great so far.
marija dunn
09.02.2010		Thx, but idd, that also doesnt really work because of the pickup problem, not gonna elaborate on it.
I knew about them pages the first day i got the device, and thought about those solutions...

The new novation remote sl 2 zero has encoders with LED feedback, that is almost usable for it, but the quality of those encoders isnt much better than of the first version.

Actually, I gave up on it some time ago, I'm saving for a xone 92

I also bought a novation launchpad, really into that one atm , working on a max/msp patch to expand its possibilities (mainly to emulate pages as on the remote zero ), which i will share, if i get it done some time, in this extensive thread: http://djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=9527
Rebbecca Fennell
09.02.2010
Originally Posted by ejac
The encoders as eq is not an option for me, its really essential to be able to set them precise and quick, which is not possible with the encoders. For example bringin in the bass up to a certain precise point withing half a beat or so, thats is very hard to do with the encoders.
+ I dont want to watch the screen every time i touch the eqs, which i do a lot using the 4 band xone 92 eq.


Okay, well you still have the option of just making an eq page on your template. The templates can be up to 40 pages long. With the pages assigned to buttons, you can flip between parameters in a split second.

If that's not good enough maybe you need to look into a cheap knob box to act as a dedicated surface because that is the best solution you're going to get out of the novation
marija dunn
09.02.2010
Originally Posted by diezdiazgiant
.. I would use the endless encoders for the eqs on deck one and two, ..
The encoders as eq is not an option for me, its really essential to be able to set them precise and quick, which is not possible with the encoders. For example bringin in the bass up to a certain precise point withing half a beat or so, thats is very hard to do with the encoders.
+ I dont want to watch the screen every time i touch the eqs, which i do a lot using the 4 band xone 92 eq.

@CerebralExcretion: Sounds really interesting, I should ask my engineer friend for advise and help probably.
It seems it can communicate with the pc directly, so maybe just through the encoders out, put in some pots connect them to the aruino and use max/msp to transform the incomming signals to midi signals for traktor
Rebbecca Fennell
09.02.2010		Here's an even easier solution - just add some pages to your template.
I dont use traktor but page one I would use the endless encoders for the eqs on deck one and two, the pots for fx one and two, the buttons underneath for the on/off toggles; page 2 same controls but for deck 3 and 4; top row buttons use to jump between template pages.

The ability to setup pages and assign them to the buttons is the shit; super quick operation
Iola Obradovich
09.02.2010		You could use an arduino, use the analogue inputs for the pots then emulate the rotary output with digital out pins (a rotary encoder is essentially just two momentary switches). Could be wired up to take power from the usb cable and the arduino nano will more than likely fit insive the enclosure.

Would require sitting with a multi meter working out whats happening before you remove the encoders but should be possible. Im using this technique to add two DS digitizers to my X-session atm, and looks like its going to work really well.
Allyson Verkuilen
09.02.2010		Just saw this post after looking for such a long time a solution to this problem.
The top row encoders on the Novation new SL series are absolutely horrible. Completely ruin the experience of using this otherwise great controller.

The question is, since you cannot replace encoders with potentiometers,
is it possible to replace these encoders with different encoders? can I buy high quality encoders somewhere and make that switch ?
marija dunn
23.11.2008		I dont know the exact definitions, I looked up the terminology up in my manual. But the essence for me is:

An encoder is a turning knob that has no beginning and end. It is usually used in relative mode, which means it gives a +1 or a -1 depending on the direction it is turned. (or higher numbers to indicate speed in turning) It has noticable "ticks" when turning the knob, every tick is a +1 or -1.
As example, i use one to do beatjumps in traktor: every tick is a beatjump of 4 beats, so I can fast forward into the track (and back) easily without using the mouse.

a potentiometer had a beginning and end, and usually outputs values in the intervals [1,127] or [-64,+64]. And is for some types of controls more suited imo, like controlling the fx knobs in traktor.
Paul Davison
21.11.2008		Hope this doesn't sound stupid but what's the difference between encoders and potentiometers?
marija dunn
21.11.2008		I've let a friend, who designs electronics for his job, look at it. And he did some measurements, and indeed, they are not interchangeable as is. One is digital, the other is analog. Completely different signals.

But now I'm believeing about integrating a custom midi controller, and some new potentiometers to replace some encoders.
Any suggestions for the midi controller?
I would only need 4 potentiometers connected to it (maybe 8, I'm not sure yet). There isnt really any room left for additional buttons or stuff.

Or just start making a custom controller, haven't really thought it through yet. Also I'm still adjusting to the new traktor. Rearranged a lot of my controls, and I'm not done (I just dont have enough buttons ).
Xavier Emanuels
05.11.2008
Originally Posted by ejac
hmm, maybe, but i would have to use a midi translator or something, because i have to turn the knob 2*360deg to go from 0->127.

They have their uses but, the way i use them (for controlling the fx knobs of traktor), they are not so effective. And I already use the potentiometer ones for eq'ing, which really isn't doable with the encoder ones.
Dont tell Tekki you are getting rid of your rotaries

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to rotaries really - sure the are useful for some things but they feel absolutly horrid which makes them useless for going crazy with effects controllerism style.

You might as well give the mod a go, its not like it will be destroying the unit as you could allways put the original rotary knob back in.

The fact that they work in both absolute and relative modes certainly helps the situation.
marija dunn
05.11.2008		hmm, maybe, but i would have to use a midi translator or something, because i have to turn the knob 2*360deg to go from 0->127.

They have their uses but, the way i use them (for controlling the fx knobs of traktor), they are not so effective. And I already use the potentiometer ones for eq'ing, which really isn't doable with the encoder ones.
Ryan Morales
05.11.2008		If you set them to absolute you could do a sneaky mod using pins, which is what I was believeing about doing at first. I decided against it as I realised infinite have their uses.
marija dunn
06.11.2008		Thx for the replies.

I was hoping, because the encoders can be set absolute (they give values between 0->127 or -64->+64) that it might be possible.

Thats what I thought, I'll ask Novation themselves just to be sure.
gilbert hatem
05.11.2008		I believe the infinite encoders are digital and the potentiometers are analog. Right?
Ryan Morales
05.11.2008		Yeah I dont believe it would real work ay.
Xavier Emanuels
04.11.2008		I dont believe thats possible - sure you could physically replace the knobs but they wouldnt work how you would hope because the software on the unit would also need to be edited

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