Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| for those who dont scratch... Do you believe you would rather have something else other than a second jog wheel?
As for faders does optical over the standard make a difference?
And would modular buttons be something you would want? | Tatum Ansaldo
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
VCI 100SE all the way, i might even opt for the arcade edition.
wise man! | Tatum Ansaldo
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
I've played without jogs for 2 years now, and i've broke down and decided to get a vci. After doing everything possible without the use of jogwheels, i've come to realize that there are quite a few benefits to having jog wheels. Most of which have been mentioned.
MKI or II though?? | Nedra Fresneda
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
I've played without jogs for 2 years now, and i've broke down and decided to get a vci. After doing everything possible without the use of jogwheels, i've come to realize that there are quite a few benefits to having jog wheels. Most of which have been mentioned.
same here, srsly considering a jog setup after getting all wild with a "not made to dj " controller | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
I had 2 controllers with normal jogs like that before i got my VCI and back then I probably would have agreed with you, but having a big tactile touch sensitive jog wheel has really changed the way I do things, particularly having fader FX at my disposal. With one motion I can instantly turn on and adjust the D/W of an effect and it turns off as soon as I let go. That's impossible with xone jogs.
Also, with one switchable jog I just know I'd end up accidentally spinning the track I was playing rather than the new one. Especially after a couple of beers
Is it just me or did that sound like the arguments I had in the playground at the age of 6?
naw i remember people being made to eat sand too | Tatum Ansaldo
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by dj-pc
for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good
I had 2 controllers with normal jogs like that before i got my VCI and back then I probably would have agreed with you, but having a big tactile touch sensitive jog wheel has really changed the way I do things, particularly having fader FX at my disposal. With one motion I can instantly turn on and adjust the D/W of an effect and it turns off as soon as I let go. That's impossible with xone jogs.
Also, with one switchable jog I just know I'd end up accidentally spinning the track I was playing rather than the new one. Especially after a couple of beers
Originally Posted by chrisw
A SINGLE touch sensitive jog. Exactly. You said it yourself. Single. So a SINGLE jog wheel on one side and browser mixer on the other
Is it just me or did that sound like the arguments I had in the playground at the age of 6? | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by dj-pc
where in my post did I say jogs are unnecessary? if you like using jogs for browsing, why not?
@photojojo: the problem is more that the companies making the controllers are making the jogs look too important, and make it look as though their specially designed for scratching and you still need this function nowadays! this is probably why theory28 believes it looks more professional to have jogs... The point just is that a controller doesn't have to look like a cd setup to look 'real'
for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good..
the marketing people tell us that we need a jog, eventually most find that it doesn't work well for scratching but better for for example browsing, so why put two jogs? maybe the whole concept of the controller could be rethought, without this 2nd jog?
it's not because the people at pioneer thought that at the time those cd players were a very good way of dj'ing, that we now have to go back to exactly the same way of dj'ing, when technology has evolved, maybe it's logical when you're used to cd's, so I say implement the good things of the cd setup, and then try to make it better and reinvent the dj setup, the pioneer people couldn't have done it perfectly!!
The concept of the jog wheel worked with cdj's, now it doesn't work for scratching on controllers, so as I said, make them smaller or make them control effects, and make them do it well in stead of trying to make it look as though they could handle scratching!
edit: I see chrisw just said the same about the 2nd jog while I was posting
I have to politely disagree with you that a proffesional looking jog wheel kind of does make a difference because alot of people lean towards "traditionalism" where physical performance is jus as important as audio. So having a Jog that acually applies to perfoermance is kind of necessary. People are not ready to accept mini jogs as the only thing there.
And if people wanted to use a CDJ setup they would. | Soledad Kipke
13.10.2010 | I've always wondered why more people haven't tried joysticks in controllers. I feel like an X-Y+click in would be really useful. Like on the xbox, but longer so it can be operated with fingers, rather than just your thumb. I do agree with the usefulness of jogs though. Browsing/fx is what I use them for most, and touch-sensitivity would be nice. I have a Hercules Steel, and wish it had touchable jogs. I really want an S4, hoping I'll have the cash... | Tatum Ansaldo
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
VCI 100SE all the way, i might even opt for the arcade edition.
wise man! | Graham Frazier
12.10.2010 | VCI 100SE all the way, i might even opt for the arcade edition. | Tatum Ansaldo
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
I've played without jogs for 2 years now, and i've broke down and decided to get a vci. After doing everything possible without the use of jogwheels, i've come to realize that there are quite a few benefits to having jog wheels. Most of which have been mentioned.
MKI or II though?? | Nedra Fresneda
12.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
I've played without jogs for 2 years now, and i've broke down and decided to get a vci. After doing everything possible without the use of jogwheels, i've come to realize that there are quite a few benefits to having jog wheels. Most of which have been mentioned.
same here, srsly considering a jog setup after getting all wild with a "not made to dj " controller | Graham Frazier
11.10.2010 | I've played without jogs for 2 years now, and i've broke down and decided to get a vci. After doing everything possible without the use of jogwheels, i've come to realize that there are quite a few benefits to having jog wheels. Most of which have been mentioned. | Leeanna Ayla
11.10.2010 | I don;t see anything wrong with not wanting jogs, but to say they're not good for scratching is wrong as we've seen with the new NI controller. And I want two jogs not for looks, but for functionality. It's the same as DJ'ing with a single X1, sure I can do it, but I certainly don't want to.
Some people just don't need or want them. I on the other hand both want and need them. In other words you can have my jog wheels when you pry them from my cold dead hands. | Noelia Koga
11.10.2010 | It really depends on the person. I agree with OP, I would make it by great with just one jog wheel to find my way around a song and have some sort of slider or buttons to switch it between different decks. Some people like having 2 jogs because they "look cool" but I'm aiming more for functionality than something being visually pleasing. | Tatum Ansaldo
12.10.2010 | I believe we could all agree that it very much depends on your personal style. If you're willing to put in the prep then the APC-40 is a great controller for traktor, but if you're like me and often find yourself having to scrub through a lot while the other track is playing and love fader FX, the VCI is better. Horses for courses as it were. | Alica Mccaden
12.10.2010 | well, your actually quite saying what I said, only it wasn't as clear maybe:
Originally Posted by dj-pc
so as I said, make them smaller or make them control effects, and make them do it well in stead of trying to make it look as though they could handle scratching!
so in the case of a vci, that looks professional, the jog also is great for controlling effects, but a lot of other jogs (look at numark, maybe reloop,...) aren't half as good for this purpose! btw, how many people use it like that (here on the community
, everyone thanks to Ean, that's what we want to achieve here, isn't it? but out there people are mostly bound to what the company thought was good..)
I believe we mostly believe the same, but something I just wanted to say is that a fully led-lighted apc40 (w/o jogs) can be as nice to look at as somebody scratching on TT's. got a bit of topic in my previous posts | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
I had 2 controllers with normal jogs like that before i got my VCI and back then I probably would have agreed with you, but having a big tactile touch sensitive jog wheel has really changed the way I do things, particularly having fader FX at my disposal. With one motion I can instantly turn on and adjust the D/W of an effect and it turns off as soon as I let go. That's impossible with xone jogs.
Also, with one switchable jog I just know I'd end up accidentally spinning the track I was playing rather than the new one. Especially after a couple of beers
Is it just me or did that sound like the arguments I had in the playground at the age of 6?
naw i remember people being made to eat sand too | Tatum Ansaldo
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by dj-pc
for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good
I had 2 controllers with normal jogs like that before i got my VCI and back then I probably would have agreed with you, but having a big tactile touch sensitive jog wheel has really changed the way I do things, particularly having fader FX at my disposal. With one motion I can instantly turn on and adjust the D/W of an effect and it turns off as soon as I let go. That's impossible with xone jogs.
Also, with one switchable jog I just know I'd end up accidentally spinning the track I was playing rather than the new one. Especially after a couple of beers
Originally Posted by chrisw
A SINGLE touch sensitive jog. Exactly. You said it yourself. Single. So a SINGLE jog wheel on one side and browser mixer on the other
Is it just me or did that sound like the arguments I had in the playground at the age of 6? | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by dj-pc
where in my post did I say jogs are unnecessary? if you like using jogs for browsing, why not?
@photojojo: the problem is more that the companies making the controllers are making the jogs look too important, and make it look as though their specially designed for scratching and you still need this function nowadays! this is probably why theory28 believes it looks more professional to have jogs... The point just is that a controller doesn't have to look like a cd setup to look 'real'
for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good..
the marketing people tell us that we need a jog, eventually most find that it doesn't work well for scratching but better for for example browsing, so why put two jogs? maybe the whole concept of the controller could be rethought, without this 2nd jog?
it's not because the people at pioneer thought that at the time those cd players were a very good way of dj'ing, that we now have to go back to exactly the same way of dj'ing, when technology has evolved, maybe it's logical when you're used to cd's, so I say implement the good things of the cd setup, and then try to make it better and reinvent the dj setup, the pioneer people couldn't have done it perfectly!!
The concept of the jog wheel worked with cdj's, now it doesn't work for scratching on controllers, so as I said, make them smaller or make them control effects, and make them do it well in stead of trying to make it look as though they could handle scratching!
edit: I see chrisw just said the same about the 2nd jog while I was posting
I have to politely disagree with you that a proffesional looking jog wheel kind of does make a difference because alot of people lean towards "traditionalism" where physical performance is jus as important as audio. So having a Jog that acually applies to perfoermance is kind of necessary. People are not ready to accept mini jogs as the only thing there.
And if people wanted to use a CDJ setup they would. | Alica Mccaden
11.10.2010 | where in my post did I say jogs are unnecessary? if you like using jogs for browsing, why not?
@photojojo: the problem is more that the companies making the controllers are making the jogs look too important, and make it look as though their specially designed for scratching and you still need this function nowadays! this is probably why theory28 believes it looks more professional to have jogs... The point just is that a controller doesn't have to look like a cd setup to look 'real'
for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good..
the marketing people tell us that we need a jog, eventually most find that it doesn't work well for scratching but better for for example browsing, so why put two jogs? maybe the whole concept of the controller could be rethought, without this 2nd jog?
it's not because the people at pioneer thought that at the time those cd players were a very good way of dj'ing, that we now have to go back to exactly the same way of dj'ing, when technology has evolved, maybe it's logical when you're used to cd's, so I say implement the good things of the cd setup, and then try to make it better and reinvent the dj setup, the pioneer people couldn't have done it perfectly!!
The concept of the jog wheel worked with cdj's, now it doesn't work for scratching on controllers, so as I said, make them smaller or make them control effects, and make them do it well in stead of trying to make it look as though they could handle scratching!
edit: I see chrisw just said the same about the 2nd jog while I was posting | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs.
True but you need to believe if the end result is something 10 steps ahead of everyone else is it not worth it?
Originally Posted by photojojo
And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically believe scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.
It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities.
A SINGLE touch sensitive jog. Exactly. You said it yourself. Single. So a SINGLE jog wheel on one side and browser mixer on the other. Because I honestly dont use the 2nd jog, and i know some dont either. Like what im suggesting is a design meant for those who mix or only use one jog wheel and would rather put the 2nd jogwheel space to better use. | Tatum Ansaldo
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically believe scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.
It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities.
Thinking about it, when the iPod came around in 2001 it was hailed as a revolution with that famous scroll wheel, but Pioneer also brought out the first CDJ-1000 in 2001 and (wikipedia tells me) the iPod didn't become touch sensitive until 2002 . Jog wheels are by no means an outdated technology, and just because music doesn't necessarily come on round discs any more doesn't mean there's a better way of scrubbing through a track than going round and round in a circle... maybe vestax should have put a 6ft long fader for that on the new VCI-100 mk2? | Leeanna Ayla
11.10.2010 | And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically believe scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.
It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities. | Tatum Ansaldo
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs.
+1 | Leeanna Ayla
11.10.2010 | IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs. | Alica Mccaden
11.10.2010 | I don't agree that for a midi controller jogs make it look less toy, I even believe controllers should completely be different from the conventional setup, what's the use of going back to the conventional setup with controllers when you can create whole new interfaces of dj'ing and really be original.
look at the apc40, I believe it looks much less toy than a numark omni control or something, with jogs!
I'm not saying to really go extreme, basicly I believe there are a lot of controller out there with jogs (mostly cheap ones, not like the vci series) that really look like toys, and that other controllers like the xone's and the launchpads look much more pro... | Cammy Clegg
11.10.2010 | theory say the other jog wheel was replaced by touch screen or some type of modular expansion slot or accessory of the users choosing?
As for modular buttons like say people were giving 3 different configuration options? | Maisie Marras
11.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by chrisw
Do you believe you would rather have something else other than a second jog wheel?
not really. and one jog would need to work 2- 4 or more decks. that would mean theres a need for another out of place button. not to mention that midi controllers need to not look like toys, and to do that they need to represent the 2 deck and a mixer set up. and if they dont, it better be damn amazing
Originally Posted by chrisw
As for faders does optical over the standard make a difference?
good god yes! optical is a billion times better, durible and reliable. but if you dont scratch its not as important, and the benefits that apply are: life span/ can take a beating (slamming the fader)
Originally Posted by chrisw
And would modular buttons be something you would want?
yes, but then the whole thing would need to be modular |
|
