iPad/Tablet integrating Midi Controller Prototype
iPad/Tablet integrating Midi Controller Prototype Posted on: 19.04.2012 by Herma Buschelman
Just your friendly neighborhood troll here, begging all of the super more creative and talented DJs than I to spare a bit of their valuable time and look at what I've been up to. And always remember, since you have no idea who I am, I must be a nobody, because you know everything. | |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
it's not a bad idea, but not a great or unique one either. that doesn't mean u shouldn't do it, it's all good, but i don't see anything revolutionary about it. you're using cdj101's in there atm? i'm sure tablet pc's will play a bigger part going forwards more and more but not as the main/only control surface. i'd love to be able to rely on one for the brains to run the software and browse tracks, flipping thru itunes artwork style - even do some XY pad type effects stuff - but a dj needs something tactile that they can just reach down to with minimal actual *looking* at it to use.
NI F1 and behringer MM 1----during the testing of the scs3m, which I was the first person on the planet outside of the company to get one.
good ideas anyway, maybe for a niche market. but try to not come across quite so full of yourself next time |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I still don't see anything particularly 'visionary' in what you're describing. Whilst it's true that there isn't a lot of iPad controllers out there (apart from the existing Numark ones), it doesn't mean that it hasn't been thought of already. Just off the top of my head, there's djdab's controller (from 2 years ago) here: What I'm trying to say is that it might appear in your eyes that you've come up with a unique idea but tbh it's simply inevitable that we'll start to see commerical controllers with the ability to interface with tablets like the iPad sooner rather than later. It doesn't mean that anyone's stealing your intellectual property... it's simply because it's such an obvious progression that it's bound to happen. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding or not seeing the bigger picture. and of course, my own concept from 2 years ago (which I incidentally first dreamt up before the iPad was even announced/rumoured) : |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
The mere fact that you need to look at the screen to ensure your fingers are in exactly the right spot is a distraction to the job at hand - its bad enough glancing at the screen to check stuff isn't going to screw up with soft-takeover.
I believe we need to separate DJ products into commercial use and prosumer use.
In all honestly though, without sounding like an ass, is I'd step down a peg or two before claiming "I did it first" rights on anything these days - Similar designs find themselves being produced by multiple companies at multiple times throughout history, simply because they are good designs and make sense to the designers. Fair enough in the case of Steve Carroll (my Namesake BTW) and intimidation he fell victim to industrial espionage plain and simple. If your idea is indeed worthwhile and unique PATENT IT - an internet community or youtube video as a safeguard will at best be hit-and-miss in court, at worst be thrown out by the judge as evidence, and not to sound the pessimist, DJTT/Youtube and wherever else could lose all its data tomorrow and then what ? On another note I feel the need to watch the simpsons episode where homer designs the car |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 21.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
The size of the controller looks about the same as quite a few other controllers out there. What's different about the size of yours? And having no physical controls below the ipad doesn't strike me as particularly advantageous - can you explain why this is beneficial? I presume it's because you want the ipad/tablet to be the central focus of the controller? Finally your third point is probably true - I've not seen any controllers that allow a tablet to be orientated vertically yet. For me personally though, I'd prefer it if the tablet is properly fixed in place so it doesn't slide around. This normally means designing the case so that it fits just one size tablet, in a fixed horizontal position, flush with the case fascia. Perhaps its the tone of your writing that kinda rubs me up the wrong way. Without all the boasting, it's definitely nice to see a concept like this on here... keep up the good work (and maybe notch down the boasting a little...) |
| Herma Buschelman 19.04.2012 |
Just your friendly neighborhood troll here, begging all of the super more creative and talented DJs than I to spare a bit of their valuable time and look at what I've been up to. And always remember, since you have no idea who I am, I must be a nobody, because you know everything. |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 29.04.2012 | You do realize that a laptop stuck in the center gap where you have the tablet is probably much much easier to work on, won't require a mouse and will be much higher spec. How are you planning on accessing FX/EQ etc .... ? No Hate intended either, but you haven't addressed any of the ideas laid / products out above and how they already solve a lot of your "issues". Cue buttons at the top of the unit IMHO is asking for trouble to begin with. Likewise built in speaker is silly - the only "small" speaker system worth a crap that could possibly be installed inside is a Bose Wave system which would be "ok" for a small bedroom at best and costs around $700 :P If you really intend trying to market something like this. 1. Develop the software 2. Decide on a particular tablet which is going to be used - not multiple ones. 3. Decide how users are going to access their controls such as cue points EQ's / FX etc ..these issues have not been addressed. Battery powered is a silly notion IMHO - if you are running a DJ application you are most likely going to get minimal battery life not even taking into consideration the controller itself. Slap some bigger wheels and a case on a CMD micro and you have your controls in a nice lil package. Casing design is the least of your issues - the software / hardware interface is. |
| Francie Gindin 29.04.2012 | Disagree with your idea of a controller having a tablet housed by the controller casing. Keeping in mind you mention in your video that the tablet will stay inside the unit, but is removable. A couple of considerations... 1.) Assuming you are enabling the end user to choose their own tablet, the tablet casings are all different sizes and will require different size controller casings for every tablet on the market. Either that or your controller casing will look entirely unprofessional with an ill fitting tablet. 2.) Assuming the controller manufacturer is supplying the tablet I am of the opinion your product will be far too expensive (considering most people don't use two lap tops) and/or not provide enough custom computer options for how much it would cost. Generally if people are running a dedicated music laptop/tablet they usually have a custom set up or use a Mac. 3.) The second version shows a casing attached to the tablet screen. This basically makes the tablet less portable or time consuming to remove for other uses. It will also require a cover to fill the hole the removal of the tablet has left. 4.) For what your controller casing does it is absolutely enormous due to the location of the tablet and tablet screen. 5.) Built in speaker is also a terrible idea that I will not even bother discussing... Running with the assumption that people will pay for a controller with a CPU inside of it, wouldn't it make more sense to use the controller casing and build a computer inside of it rather than trying to retro fit a tablet? Surely it would be cheaper, enable a smaller foot print, customisation (by the manufacturer) of every component specifically for audio applications. Couldn't you just make a neat stand (internally routed/powered cables, nice clips to attachthe stand to the controller, adjustable size to fit a variety of different sized screens) that the end user can attach to the unit? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have a touch screen already and don't want to buy another one or would prefer to choose there own. At short, I believe your design is not marketable with a tablet except for maybe the tiniest of niches. No hate intended... |
| Herma Buschelman 29.04.2012 | |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
it's not a bad idea, but not a great or unique one either. that doesn't mean u shouldn't do it, it's all good, but i don't see anything revolutionary about it. you're using cdj101's in there atm? i'm sure tablet pc's will play a bigger part going forwards more and more but not as the main/only control surface. i'd love to be able to rely on one for the brains to run the software and browse tracks, flipping thru itunes artwork style - even do some XY pad type effects stuff - but a dj needs something tactile that they can just reach down to with minimal actual *looking* at it to use.
NI F1 and behringer MM 1----during the testing of the scs3m, which I was the first person on the planet outside of the company to get one.
good ideas anyway, maybe for a niche market. but try to not come across quite so full of yourself next time |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 20.04.2012 | @ MiL0 ... Dj Raja June might disagree (remember her!) :P |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 20.04.2012 | Just watched your video again and I believe I kinda get where you're coming from now. You're obviously much more keen on using the iPad (or whatever tablet) as the centre of your controller setup, rather than to complement normal hardware controls (encoders, pots, faders, etc). This is definitely a preference thing imo - not everyone likes to use on-screen virtual knobs over real knobs. Touchscreens are great for some purposes but terrible at many other things. If you're serious about trying to bring this to market or patent it, you should probably take this into consideration. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I still don't see anything particularly 'visionary' in what you're describing. Whilst it's true that there isn't a lot of iPad controllers out there (apart from the existing Numark ones), it doesn't mean that it hasn't been thought of already. Just off the top of my head, there's djdab's controller (from 2 years ago) here: What I'm trying to say is that it might appear in your eyes that you've come up with a unique idea but tbh it's simply inevitable that we'll start to see commerical controllers with the ability to interface with tablets like the iPad sooner rather than later. It doesn't mean that anyone's stealing your intellectual property... it's simply because it's such an obvious progression that it's bound to happen. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding or not seeing the bigger picture. and of course, my own concept from 2 years ago (which I incidentally first dreamt up before the iPad was even announced/rumoured) : |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 20.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
The mere fact that you need to look at the screen to ensure your fingers are in exactly the right spot is a distraction to the job at hand - its bad enough glancing at the screen to check stuff isn't going to screw up with soft-takeover.
I believe we need to separate DJ products into commercial use and prosumer use.
In all honestly though, without sounding like an ass, is I'd step down a peg or two before claiming "I did it first" rights on anything these days - Similar designs find themselves being produced by multiple companies at multiple times throughout history, simply because they are good designs and make sense to the designers. Fair enough in the case of Steve Carroll (my Namesake BTW) and intimidation he fell victim to industrial espionage plain and simple. If your idea is indeed worthwhile and unique PATENT IT - an internet community or youtube video as a safeguard will at best be hit-and-miss in court, at worst be thrown out by the judge as evidence, and not to sound the pessimist, DJTT/Youtube and wherever else could lose all its data tomorrow and then what ? On another note I feel the need to watch the simpsons episode where homer designs the car |
| Herma Buschelman 20.04.2012 | thank you for checking out my post and commenting. I believe we need to separate DJ products into commercial use and prosumer use. In the same way that buying a $300 set of cookpans does not mean want to be a chef, or buying a car doesn't mean you want to be a a cab driver, many people have DJ gear for uses other than creating a dance floor mix. I won't go into it, but I believe we can safely say that many turntablists and controllerists of great technical ability don't use that entertain crowds, but instead for their own enjoyment. Both world's of DJing are equally valid and important, and yes, your assertion that the ipad has limitations in regards to mixing, is true. It makes up for that with it's ability to be user designed and refined. The iPad as control surface fits most well into "performance DJing", and I'll do my best to demonstrate this in round 2 of the online DMC. |
| Herma Buschelman 20.04.2012 | @milo see..because at the very least, if as you have stated, there is nothing novel about my design, (which I feel that there is since it's real and the only one around) at least I have proven that for the last 5 years I have had the same ideas as people who are product managers. I would say that since I have also demonstrated the use of these products, that I have surpassed them in relevancy, but nonetheless, doesn't that speak well of my ability to work as a designer. I'm going to be as direct as I can be. I want to design at DJ Tech. I love their products, and know for a fact that they are actually built to a higher standard than many more expensive controllers. I'm doing all of this in the belief that Christopher and I will come to an agreement about my ability to lead the company into the future. I'm doing this for the people who have been cheated of their just dues, the Steve Carrolls, the DJ Focus's, and the Ean Goldens; (who I'm guessing has stories similar to mine), and the guys like yourself who are far more creative than your average producked manager. |
| Herma Buschelman 20.04.2012 | It isn't boasting if it's true. As within this post, often since the first day I spoke to someone about their midi controller and was told "oh we never thought of that" or "we can't do that" we won't do that" yet, time after time they copy exactly what I have described or demonstrated. Would you still consider it boasting if i produced a drawing and e-mail from 5 years ago which was sent to two people who are now heads of development, and both said they would never make a controller like that, yet they both did. How is that boasting if it is indeed fact. See, this is what they are counting on; The ability to mine people for their ideas, and since only the person who thought of it and the person who took the idea would know the truth, the ability to get away with it. However, I believe when the day comes and I am proven to be absolutely correct about iPad controllers, we will know I was telling the truth. Is it boasting to say that as long as I gave away my ideas and expected nothing back, that I was praised as a "visionary", yet the instant I expected to be paid for my intellectual property, I was shunned. Since I'm in a talkative mood.. I'll run down the list NI F1 and behringer MM 1----during the testing of the scs3m, which I was the first person on the planet outside of the company to get one. It occurred to me that a multiple fader and button controller would be a great design idea. I drew a picture and sent it to Jim Mazur. I later sent the picture to Craig reeves also, and discussed it with him. What makes this interesting is that he was adamant about it being a "bad" idea. I guess he changed his mind. I also described a controller very similar to the Stanton 4dj to him on several occasions, once again, I was repeatedly told that it was a dumb idea, and that they would never be in the "computer" business. I don't need to boast, my recommendations from both Mark Settle(skratchworx) and Dan Bruck(stanton) which refer to my uncanny ability to see into the future of product development and also define the way these products will be use for performance, does all the boasting I need. The word visionary is used often. What I hope to accomplish here is to demonstrate that I continue to innovate and define the hardware and it's use. I want to create a way for all of the innovators to get their due credit, and not be limited to what these product companies, who are these days, nothing more than whole-sellers anyway, give them. They are counting on the fact that the readers here will not know who I am, and about my previous involvements, and will therefore assume that I am lying. Which is fine by me. I can prove everything I say, but the greatest proof will be when you walk into BestBuy or Guitar center and see iPad controller similar to mine; where the iPad is absolutely center stage and a touch surface. & also what I will call "optional vertical oriented controllers"; Meaning that if you are someone who doesn't scratch and use the cross-fader, you can orient the controller with it at the top. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 21.04.2012 | oh and here's a working concept of something similar I was working on last year. I guess I was going in a different direction; controls under the screen seems much more intuitive to me. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 21.04.2012 |
Originally Posted by Buckner
The size of the controller looks about the same as quite a few other controllers out there. What's different about the size of yours? And having no physical controls below the ipad doesn't strike me as particularly advantageous - can you explain why this is beneficial? I presume it's because you want the ipad/tablet to be the central focus of the controller? Finally your third point is probably true - I've not seen any controllers that allow a tablet to be orientated vertically yet. For me personally though, I'd prefer it if the tablet is properly fixed in place so it doesn't slide around. This normally means designing the case so that it fits just one size tablet, in a fixed horizontal position, flush with the case fascia. Perhaps its the tone of your writing that kinda rubs me up the wrong way. Without all the boasting, it's definitely nice to see a concept like this on here... keep up the good work (and maybe notch down the boasting a little...) |
| Rolanda Clodfelder 21.04.2012 | Personally I though that Numark did a stellar job with the IDJ pro - with a few notable exceptions (of course) being the lack of line faders and EQ's. Speaking of which isn't the size about the same as your one (just asking). They did a great job of emulating the software, but I honestly feel that the software for the controller should have been modified to fit the tried nd tested DJ standard Design so everyone feels at home, instead they took off the shelf software and designed a controller around it - weird weird weirdly. Really surprised theres no real competition where it comes to an iPad as the primary platform to play on - if traktor 3 was ported to iPad (which seriously had more control than most could wish for and ran on a 1.6ghz Atom CPU just fine which apparently is slower chips in the real world than an A5) It'd be freaking awesome. S2/S4 ready iPad version of Traktor would be Freakin awesome even if it lacked some of the more CPU heavy features like transpose and cut down on effects - plug in the iPad and away you go. I see the iPads DJ future lying as a software platform/playlisting rather than any kind of control surface you just can't beat tactility where it comes to playing a live gig. The weak link in iPad DJ'ing IMHO at this point in time, is the lack of a really well packaged DJ application that can utilize existing well designed controllers layouts e.g. S4/S2/VCI400 and take full advantage of the special touch features of an iPad (and what its good at) - Track cover browsing in full screen for example and also take advantage of the built in sound cards in these devices A simple dock is all thats needed at that point or perhaps not even a dock if some kind of wireless midi/audio could be utilized (somehow) as an add-on. We're touching the tip of the iceberg on the whole tablet DJ scenario - i watch with glee as these first arrivals on the scene start to set the pace for what I believe will eventually be a DJ bringing an iPad with his setlist to a gig, plug it in and be ready to rock the place. Sure you'll never beat the feeling of flicking through your vinyl crate or CD wallet, but being able to flick though cover art on a screen is IMHO gonna feel a lot more real and intuitive than using a knob or button to select a track on a controller. |
| Herma Buschelman 20.04.2012 | I sincerely hope that a few industry people are to prideful to copy this design in an effort to prove me wrong, becuase haha, they will be left out on the cold. So here are MY ideas, which will be copied wildly; 1st-the size of the controller, 2nd-no physical controls below the iPad, 3rd-on ALL controllers, optional vertical orientation. So Milo, please don't take this the wrong way, but my entire intention with this post was to prove that I am damn good at identifying, defining, and most importantly creating "trends" in controller development. And the days of watching others implement those ideas and not give credit where it is due are over. This is just me holding onto my intellectual property. |
| Herma Buschelman 20.04.2012 | Yep, it will be getting more controls in the next cycle. This first one was to try to find the smallest size controller that could have an iPad inside it. Which is sort of the "holy grail" an iPad docked controllers. (and the reason DJTech's CEO came to me to develop their controller. The fact that they wanted me to come up with a design and just "give" it to them; is WTF I'm talking about) |
| Yong Aptekar 20.04.2012 | +1 on the more knobs, +50 on the "wtf are you talking about" |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 20.04.2012 | I've got no idea what you're saying(?) but your controller looks pretty cool to me... probably could do with a few more physical controls (especially knobs) in the blank areas but that's just my preference. edit: also have a look at my 'cdj2000' thread in my signature below. I believe both our ideas are worthy of some attention but I wouldn't say either of them are particularly unique or about to 'start a new trend' (which is kinda what you're implying). Numark have been integrating iOS docking stations in to their hardware for years, for example. |
| Herma Buschelman 19.04.2012 | All over the world, DJ will be turning their controller upside down in the next few weeks. Ah yes, another trend that sprang from the mind of a unknown nobody troll like me. Often i have sat and chuckled at the "I dont use the crossfader" comments, because never once, ( though I got my start in theis business by literally "turning the controller world on it's ear") have I heard anyone say they were just going to flip the controller upside down. So when you see it become a massive trend, just remember whos' GIANT brian it sprung from. I hope that you guys don't read too much into my sardonic comments. I just grew tired of people in the industry telling me "we cant/wont do that" or debating with me if some line of development was a good idea, and then doing the VERY thing I suggested. Big Up the reall innovators! Piss on the industry "limitators" with their generic , poorly designed controllers.. |
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