Xone:DB4 or...DJM-2000 nexus

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Xone:DB4 or...DJM-2000 nexus
Posted on: 10.12.2012 by Nohemi Arguedas
In the process of upgrading mixer-wise and have been seriously torn over the past few weeks between these mixers. I spent the past 6 years on Rane TTM hardware, then transitioned over to Traktor with a DJM-850...liked it a lot, but realized it wasn't enough for me.

I was set on the DJM-2000 nexus until I started looking more into the DB4 and the appeal of that range.
The selling point on the 2000 for me initially was the beatslicer and beat effect length buttons across the top (great for going bananas with slip rolls and such). Those are the main things I feel I would really be missing if I went with the DB4. Can slip roll type effects be done on the DB4 in similar fashion? I suppose something similar to the DJM beatslicer could be finagled with the combination of Ableton and TouchOSC/Lemur if someone got creative enough with it.

The only other thing about the 2000 I like a lot is the three EQ bands for the effect knobs...which would be great for isolating reverbs, echos, and aggressive type effects to the mid and higher frequencies without completely muddying up the lows...not sure if I can do that with the DB4 either. Hope someone can clarify.

What turns me off to the DJM line of mixers is how locked much of their functionality is to Rekordbox. Using Traktor, I feel like I'd be paying a lot of money for a lot of Pro DJ link integration which is only usable if you're running tracks through Rekordbox. AFAIK, I don't believe you can run your music through Traktor while simultaneously feeding DJM mixers beatgrid information from Rekordbox...not to mention this would require analyzing and managing all my tracks twice Is there a solution for this?
Whereas the DJM mixers quantize their beat effects from Rekordbox beatgrid information, my understanding is that I can lock the DB4 to the Traktor master clock, thus it will quantize it's effects to the Traktor beatgrids by default...much more preferable in my opinion. I understand you can do the opposite with the DJM and lock Traktor to the DJM clock...though I've heard some people have had trouble with this? Also, it seems like it would be much more preferable to have Traktor as the central timing hub, rather than Traktor constantly fluctuating while it tries to sync up your tracks to whatever the DJM is 'auto-detecting'?

Overall, pioneer mixers seem to offer a lot more quick to the punch instant gratification effects and functionality; and that is, I suspect, the reason why they've been the industry standard for so long along with the CDJ integration. The DB4 seems to have a much deeper side to it with more flexibility and nuances you pick up along the way...though I wonder if all the technical aspects overwhelm or spoil the experience of using it a bit.
From what I've read regarding build quality, sound quality, effects quality, and integration, all seem to make me lean a bit more to the DB4.
Tatum Ansaldo
13.12.2012
Originally Posted by shunayox
Hi just in case you were interested, there is a way to implement send and return effects in the DB:4...
That's how I have mine set up. Works pretty well but I'd like a true send return, even if all you could do was turn it on and off with the FX on button.
Sherley Stampfli
13.12.2012
Originally Posted by xs2man
How would the mixer implement send / return though? I mean, how would you connect up the likes of your RMX to the hardware? There are no connections for it?

I am seriously considering a K2 now. Do you need software to use it though? Or can you do the slip roll with the K2 and DB4 alone?
Hi just in case you were interested, there is a way to implement send and return effects in the DB:4, I kind of succeeded doing that with my OTO Biscuit (an external bit crusher) and really enjoying this setup. Basically I connected the record out of the DB:4 into the "ins" of OTO Biscuit, and connected it's return signal ("outs") into the DB:4's line in next to the mic input. In the settings menu on the DB:4 I went into record setup and chose "phones".
Then in phones setup I chose mode - normal, clean feed on and auto mute on. Auto cue - off. Now the choice is yours- every time you cue a channel it's audio is sent into the Biscuit. Once you enable the line/mic channel you can decide whether to feed it straight into the mix or if you flip to ch1 option and have channel 1 set to analog, 1 in the input matrix you can use the effects, delays EQ and filters on top of that! You "sacrifice" a channel in order to do that but it is no big deal at all, sounds great! Hope this helps,

Cheers
Nohemi Arguedas
11.12.2012		Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it

Filters on the FX sounds very interesting, may work even better than the FX EQ

Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
The DB4 has per channel loopers - since the music continues to play underneath they are in effect slip rolls.
Can you elaborate a bit with that. I assume depressing the encoder once activates the loop, depressing again turns it off. With a slip roll, the novelty is that after you activate the loop, you can resample a different segment as you are changing the loop interval...as opposed to turning the loop off changing the interval, then reactivating it. It's much more practical and easier to take advantage of with a touchstrip (such as the 900) or having a row of buttons to drum on (DJM-2000). Can the encoder slip roll effect with the K2 be achieved without the K2?
In the grand scheme of things it's a minor issue I guess, but it's just an effect that I grew to love and tend to abuse a lot. I could live without it though.

I've read a lot of people requesting send/return fx and that it may become available in a future firmware, is there any solid word on this? In any case, I'm pretty ready to pull the trigger on the DB4... found it for 2299 online which seems like a great deal...just want to mull it over a little longer in case I change my mind.
Tatum Ansaldo
10.12.2012
Originally Posted by nechronics
The selling point on the 2000 for me initially was the beatslicer and beat effect length buttons across the top (great for going bananas with slip rolls and such). Those are the main things I feel I would really be missing if I went with the DB4. Can slip roll type effects be done on the DB4 in similar fashion? I suppose something similar to the DJM beatslicer could be finagled with the combination of Ableton and TouchOSC/Lemur if someone got creative enough with it.
The DB4 has per channel loopers - since the music continues to play underneath they are in effect slip rolls. If you plug in a xone K2 you can fade between the loop and the source as well, and get momentary slip roll on the buttons.

Originally Posted by nechronics
The only other thing about the 2000 I like a lot is the three EQ bands for the effect knobs...which would be great for isolating reverbs, echos, and aggressive type effects to the mid and higher frequencies without completely muddying up the lows...not sure if I can do that with the DB4 either. Hope someone can clarify.
As the other poster said, many of the FX basically have a band pass filter on the input. For example, if you look at delays you have thin Q (very fine band, can select a single drum to delay), wide Q which takes a greater part of the signal or masif Q which takes about half, and sweep which can use the entire signal or cut out lows or highs.
Nohemi Arguedas
10.12.2012		In the process of upgrading mixer-wise and have been seriously torn over the past few weeks between these mixers. I spent the past 6 years on Rane TTM hardware, then transitioned over to Traktor with a DJM-850...liked it a lot, but realized it wasn't enough for me.

I was set on the DJM-2000 nexus until I started looking more into the DB4 and the appeal of that range.
The selling point on the 2000 for me initially was the beatslicer and beat effect length buttons across the top (great for going bananas with slip rolls and such). Those are the main things I feel I would really be missing if I went with the DB4. Can slip roll type effects be done on the DB4 in similar fashion? I suppose something similar to the DJM beatslicer could be finagled with the combination of Ableton and TouchOSC/Lemur if someone got creative enough with it.

The only other thing about the 2000 I like a lot is the three EQ bands for the effect knobs...which would be great for isolating reverbs, echos, and aggressive type effects to the mid and higher frequencies without completely muddying up the lows...not sure if I can do that with the DB4 either. Hope someone can clarify.

What turns me off to the DJM line of mixers is how locked much of their functionality is to Rekordbox. Using Traktor, I feel like I'd be paying a lot of money for a lot of Pro DJ link integration which is only usable if you're running tracks through Rekordbox. AFAIK, I don't believe you can run your music through Traktor while simultaneously feeding DJM mixers beatgrid information from Rekordbox...not to mention this would require analyzing and managing all my tracks twice Is there a solution for this?
Whereas the DJM mixers quantize their beat effects from Rekordbox beatgrid information, my understanding is that I can lock the DB4 to the Traktor master clock, thus it will quantize it's effects to the Traktor beatgrids by default...much more preferable in my opinion. I understand you can do the opposite with the DJM and lock Traktor to the DJM clock...though I've heard some people have had trouble with this? Also, it seems like it would be much more preferable to have Traktor as the central timing hub, rather than Traktor constantly fluctuating while it tries to sync up your tracks to whatever the DJM is 'auto-detecting'?

Overall, pioneer mixers seem to offer a lot more quick to the punch instant gratification effects and functionality; and that is, I suspect, the reason why they've been the industry standard for so long along with the CDJ integration. The DB4 seems to have a much deeper side to it with more flexibility and nuances you pick up along the way...though I wonder if all the technical aspects overwhelm or spoil the experience of using it a bit.
From what I've read regarding build quality, sound quality, effects quality, and integration, all seem to make me lean a bit more to the DB4.
Tatum Ansaldo
13.12.2012
Originally Posted by shunayox
Hi just in case you were interested, there is a way to implement send and return effects in the DB:4...
That's how I have mine set up. Works pretty well but I'd like a true send return, even if all you could do was turn it on and off with the FX on button.
Tamela Batara
13.12.2012		Ooohhhh. Thanks for that. Now all I need is the 600 sheet to buy an RMX, lol.
Sherley Stampfli
13.12.2012
Originally Posted by xs2man
How would the mixer implement send / return though? I mean, how would you connect up the likes of your RMX to the hardware? There are no connections for it?

I am seriously considering a K2 now. Do you need software to use it though? Or can you do the slip roll with the K2 and DB4 alone?
Hi just in case you were interested, there is a way to implement send and return effects in the DB:4, I kind of succeeded doing that with my OTO Biscuit (an external bit crusher) and really enjoying this setup. Basically I connected the record out of the DB:4 into the "ins" of OTO Biscuit, and connected it's return signal ("outs") into the DB:4's line in next to the mic input. In the settings menu on the DB:4 I went into record setup and chose "phones".
Then in phones setup I chose mode - normal, clean feed on and auto mute on. Auto cue - off. Now the choice is yours- every time you cue a channel it's audio is sent into the Biscuit. Once you enable the line/mic channel you can decide whether to feed it straight into the mix or if you flip to ch1 option and have channel 1 set to analog, 1 in the input matrix you can use the effects, delays EQ and filters on top of that! You "sacrifice" a channel in order to do that but it is no big deal at all, sounds great! Hope this helps,

Cheers
Tatum Ansaldo
11.12.2012		K2 and DB4 alone.

You could use the record out and one if the RCA ins (probably the aux in in the top, but it would be cool if it were selectable.
Tamela Batara
11.12.2012		How would the mixer implement send / return though? I mean, how would you connect up the likes of your RMX to the hardware? There are no connections for it?

I am seriously considering a K2 now. Do you need software to use it though? Or can you do the slip roll with the K2 and DB4 alone?
Tatum Ansaldo
11.12.2012		In terms of the send return, it's not 100% clear if it will be implemented. I spoke to andy rigby jones, the godfather of the DB4 at BPM, and he said they were planning to add it in a future update. However, mix architekt (another A&H guy) said he was against it due to the potential phasing issues and the fact that the DB FX are already awesome.

Personally I have an RMX-1000, so I'm hoping it does get send return at some point.
Tatum Ansaldo
11.12.2012		Yeh, that shows you the capabilities with a K2! Without the K2, you press the encoder to engage a loop and you can halve/double it while it's still active. If you set a 1 beat loop it still records a full 16 beats so you can extend or shorten at will.
Nohemi Arguedas
11.12.2012		errr....speak of the devil. Just noticed this got posted up about an hour ago..

http://xoneblog.allen-heath.com/?p=1927

Seems to get the point across almost gave me a seizure trying to follow that camera. ADD directing at it's finest.
Nohemi Arguedas
11.12.2012		Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it

Filters on the FX sounds very interesting, may work even better than the FX EQ

Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
The DB4 has per channel loopers - since the music continues to play underneath they are in effect slip rolls.
Can you elaborate a bit with that. I assume depressing the encoder once activates the loop, depressing again turns it off. With a slip roll, the novelty is that after you activate the loop, you can resample a different segment as you are changing the loop interval...as opposed to turning the loop off changing the interval, then reactivating it. It's much more practical and easier to take advantage of with a touchstrip (such as the 900) or having a row of buttons to drum on (DJM-2000). Can the encoder slip roll effect with the K2 be achieved without the K2?
In the grand scheme of things it's a minor issue I guess, but it's just an effect that I grew to love and tend to abuse a lot. I could live without it though.

I've read a lot of people requesting send/return fx and that it may become available in a future firmware, is there any solid word on this? In any case, I'm pretty ready to pull the trigger on the DB4... found it for 2299 online which seems like a great deal...just want to mull it over a little longer in case I change my mind.
Tatum Ansaldo
10.12.2012
Originally Posted by nechronics
The selling point on the 2000 for me initially was the beatslicer and beat effect length buttons across the top (great for going bananas with slip rolls and such). Those are the main things I feel I would really be missing if I went with the DB4. Can slip roll type effects be done on the DB4 in similar fashion? I suppose something similar to the DJM beatslicer could be finagled with the combination of Ableton and TouchOSC/Lemur if someone got creative enough with it.
The DB4 has per channel loopers - since the music continues to play underneath they are in effect slip rolls. If you plug in a xone K2 you can fade between the loop and the source as well, and get momentary slip roll on the buttons.

Originally Posted by nechronics
The only other thing about the 2000 I like a lot is the three EQ bands for the effect knobs...which would be great for isolating reverbs, echos, and aggressive type effects to the mid and higher frequencies without completely muddying up the lows...not sure if I can do that with the DB4 either. Hope someone can clarify.
As the other poster said, many of the FX basically have a band pass filter on the input. For example, if you look at delays you have thin Q (very fine band, can select a single drum to delay), wide Q which takes a greater part of the signal or masif Q which takes about half, and sweep which can use the entire signal or cut out lows or highs.
Tamela Batara
10.12.2012		I had the almost exact same quandary as you about 3 week's ago.

I went db4 personally.

A lot of the effects allow you to alter the frequency at which they are applied. An example would be delays, such as fat q and thin q. The top knob on the fx section allows you to scroll the fx to the desired frequency. Other fx may just extend the frequency range to encompass lows or not.

Personally for me the only thing missing is send return for fx. But then that would just make me want to get an rmx 1000 anyway which I just don't need with the db4. Certainly not until I really get to grips with the fx I currently have.

Btw. The eq filters are amazing. I use them the most when doing transitions to filter bass etc. And the input matrix is ace too. I can apply the source to another channel and fine tune my fx parameters in the headphone first to see if it will work before firing it out to the main.

Awesome mixer and I doubt you would regret the purchase.

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