Which DAW?
Which DAW? Posted on: 05.09.2011 by Stella Shatzel So I've been into beat production for some time now, using mostly and emx1, I've used some sequencers and have messed around in FL a bit. But now I'm looking to step up a little bit and get either maschine or the new mikro, but what I'm really wondering is what DAW would compliment it best? Testimonials or anything of the sort would be helpful. As I am purchasing the daw, please dont tell me to just try them out until I find one that fits best. Just looking for some quality advice. Thanks in advance! | |
| Dorie Scelzo 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
The biggest concern for "new" guys is that it doesn't use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It's probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn't really matter. So, if you're actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it's worth making sure. If you're looking to get free stuff |
| Dorie Scelzo 07.09.2011 | Summary: Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios) Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited) Tier 3: Basically everything else IMHO, Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn't a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7. If you're working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn |
| Dorie Scelzo 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
The biggest concern for "new" guys is that it doesn't use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It's probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn't really matter. So, if you're actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it's worth making sure. If you're looking to get free stuff |
| Dorie Scelzo 07.09.2011 | Summary: Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios) Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited) Tier 3: Basically everything else IMHO, Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn't a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7. If you're working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn |
| Dorie Scelzo 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
The biggest concern for "new" guys is that it doesn't use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It's probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn't really matter. So, if you're actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it's worth making sure. If you're looking to get free stuff |
| Dorie Scelzo 07.09.2011 | Summary: Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios) Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited) Tier 3: Basically everything else IMHO, Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn't a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7. If you're working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn |
| Dorie Scelzo 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
The biggest concern for "new" guys is that it doesn't use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It's probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn't really matter. So, if you're actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it's worth making sure. If you're looking to get free stuff |
| Celine Surico 08.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by dryzero
Well, loop recording is OK but compared with Logic's Comp/sweep takes, the 'sweep' part is missing. To be fair, the MIDI sweeps don't work properly in Logic, only audio. But having the option to record one single region (or clip) and copy this around and just select one of the multiple takes is so handy in my workflow. I.e. I don't need to duplicate multiple tracks. The loop recording might do it but then I need to go in and change the loop points for each track. But it's good enough just now. Time to file another feature request to Ableton engineering. It would be very natural them to have the feature of recording 'nested clips' and just select the one you want at a specific instance. In addition if they add the 'sweep' feature from Logic it would be even more powerful. As for the velocity plug-in, it's nice but it operates as a plug-in across all the incoming MIDI info. It's pretty common in my workflow to fix a drum MIDI recording with multiple instruments and adjust just the kick velocities. This means that I need to extract the kick MIDI into a separate clip and duplicate tracks for using the same drum plug-in. Again doable. I guess I could go in and edit the velocity values for each specific midi note inside the clip editing view. |
| Dorie Scelzo 07.09.2011 | Summary: Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios) Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited) Tier 3: Basically everything else IMHO, Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn't a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7. If you're working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn |
| Rikki Angello 06.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
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| Celine Surico 05.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
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| Stella Shatzel 05.09.2011 | So I've been into beat production for some time now, using mostly and emx1, I've used some sequencers and have messed around in FL a bit. But now I'm looking to step up a little bit and get either maschine or the new mikro, but what I'm really wondering is what DAW would compliment it best? Testimonials or anything of the sort would be helpful. As I am purchasing the daw, please dont tell me to just try them out until I find one that fits best. Just looking for some quality advice. Thanks in advance! |
| Dorie Scelzo 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
The biggest concern for "new" guys is that it doesn't use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It's probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn't really matter. So, if you're actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it's worth making sure. If you're looking to get free stuff |
| Loralee Erban 15.09.2011 | I vote fl studio, most simple user interface ive ever used doesnt take any messing to get setup, included vst's and effects are amazing, and able to get working off the bat. as far as recording and editing goes I like samplitude music studio for some reason its not the obvious choice but has everything I need |
| Celine Surico 15.09.2011 | Just for fun I tested Reason 5.0 the demo version (I have a 3.0 copy somewhere in my book shelf but didn't bother installing it.) Boy the MIDI editing and work flow is clunky after years of using Logic and Ableton Live. Anyway, I do believe it's important to try yourself DAWs, I could have claimed that Reason is the best DAW ever and you could have purchased it based on such a claim without testing it. The opposite is also true, might be that Reason is exactly what someone wants to use. I don't see any limits of music making with any commercial DAW available today. It's mostly to spend 100+ hours in the studio to learn the tools for becoming productive. |
| Neta Schlaefli 15.09.2011 | ableton |
| Stella Shatzel 07.09.2011 | mostapha thanks for the amazing post. I am on a pc though. @ksandvik I'm not against trying them (ie demo) but I have seen other people ask and they are met with the generic "just try them and find one you like" answer. I was hoping to find out some key differences between DAWs and go from there. I've ruled Reason out as I hate the workflow. Cubase has been out because it really doesn't fit my intended use. I'm currently using Live on the free demo and after watching some tut's like the workflow a lot more than I used to when I first tried it (maybe because I picked up a lpk25?? haha). I will give pro tools a good look as well now as I haven't even considered it yet. I'm not currently to interested in using it as a live performance device, but I guess it's nice to have options in the future. I appreciate everyone's feedback! |
| Celine Surico 08.09.2011 | Anyway, as many have posted, the work-flow is the interesting part with most DAWs. If you find one you like concerning work-flows -- and most of them have equal features -- that's the one you should use. It means you need to do some homework and try them out. I know the original poster didn't want to test DAWs but frankly speaking it's hard for us to predict how you are going to use a DAW. I believe every producer have their own favorite way of creating music. And that's how it is. |
| Celine Surico 08.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by dryzero
Well, loop recording is OK but compared with Logic's Comp/sweep takes, the 'sweep' part is missing. To be fair, the MIDI sweeps don't work properly in Logic, only audio. But having the option to record one single region (or clip) and copy this around and just select one of the multiple takes is so handy in my workflow. I.e. I don't need to duplicate multiple tracks. The loop recording might do it but then I need to go in and change the loop points for each track. But it's good enough just now. Time to file another feature request to Ableton engineering. It would be very natural them to have the feature of recording 'nested clips' and just select the one you want at a specific instance. In addition if they add the 'sweep' feature from Logic it would be even more powerful. As for the velocity plug-in, it's nice but it operates as a plug-in across all the incoming MIDI info. It's pretty common in my workflow to fix a drum MIDI recording with multiple instruments and adjust just the kick velocities. This means that I need to extract the kick MIDI into a separate clip and duplicate tracks for using the same drum plug-in. Again doable. I guess I could go in and edit the velocity values for each specific midi note inside the clip editing view. |
| Dorie Scelzo 07.09.2011 | Summary: Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios) Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited) Tier 3: Basically everything else IMHO, Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn't a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7. If you're working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn |
| Kandra Fagler 07.09.2011 | i vote for ableton and cubase 6 i prefer ableton when doing midi based stuff but for live band recordings (which i do have to deal with a lot of times) i much prefer cubase |
| Nedra Fresneda 07.09.2011 | ^this or use the sesion view with a pedal that starts recording the next clip. Regarding velocity issue: I'm a happy Ableton user You can try a fully working version for 30 days, just download it fron Abe's site. I'd say demo it before buying it. |
| Brent Dierken 07.09.2011 | This may or may not answer your question... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...nique_0808.htm I believe you want loop recording? |
| Celine Surico 06.09.2011 | Ableton Live is a mightly good DAW and I've used it since 2.1 days but my biggest gripe -- and the reason I switch to Logic from time to time -- is the lack of comp takes. Comp takes mean that I could set a let's say 8-bar loop and improvise line after line and then pick pieces I want for the final production. The MIDI region comp takes don't work as well as the audio ones but are still useable. Anyway, then I could just take the eight or four bar take, copy it multiple times, switch between the takes to make it more human or select one of the takes I liked more. Perfect for bass line improvising, different hihat patterns, multiple takes on pads and leads and so on. If anyone knows how to do that quickly in Ableton Live, let me know. Been studying the 8.x manuals on my iPad from/to work and I have not yet found a nice workaround to do this. Which is sad as clips would be perfect for this if I could record clip after clip with a four-bar range. The lack of more MIDI editing tools in Ableton Live is another story but just now I could live with the ones that are inside Ableton Live. But let's say narrow the range of velocities to a range of 90-110 which has tools in Logic, can't find that in Ableton Live either. The other reason I used Ableton Live quite a lot before was the elastic loop support, now in Logic with flex time there's less need to use Live. I believe most DAWs now have elastic time support in one flavor or another. Live is still wicked fast when assembling pieces together for a final product. |
| Rikki Angello 06.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
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| Monserrate Rupnow 06.09.2011 | Another vote for Ableton live. |
| Bertha Fathy 06.09.2011 | Reason and Live are excellent pieces of software. FL isn't bad, and if you liked the demo (which you should have downloaded for all of these if you're intending to purchase one), it's a good start. Most DAW's offer a lot of power and creativity once you get intimate enough with it, but the workflow is what's going to be your biggest concern. |
| Stella Shatzel 06.09.2011 | Cubase is deff out. I've used it before and I hate the interface. I've toyed with Live so that would be easier to start with. However would I find myself looking to move to Reason in the near future? Or will Live suit my needs for some sustainable future? |
| Rikki Angello 05.09.2011 | Since you have a dell Logic isn't an option. I would say that if you don't own any vst's Reason is going to have more variety in the box versus just Ableton Live. That being said, the instruments you do get with just Live are quality and able to produce a variety of sounds. For a first DAW I would recommend Live, especially with the session view which makes programming your own loops really easy and offers a more "free flow" workflow. Pro Tools and Cubase can't really comment on since I've never tried either. |
| Celine Surico 05.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by Jingr
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