Maschine and Ableton worlflow and integration, how do you approach it?
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Maschine and Ableton worlflow and integration, how do you approach it? Posted on: 07.01.2012 by Romelia Stankard I'm trying to figure out the best way to integrate maschine into my ableton workflow.It looks like some people work mostly in standalone then export audio clips of loops into ableton. That kind of gets rid of much flexibility with maschine though. Then I was looking on youtube of how people were running maschine as a VST in ableton and it looks like a lot of people are creating a midi track which routes to maschine to trigger samples and do away with maschine's internal sequencer completely- which doesn't really help me since I bought maschine to stop clicking in drums with my mouse in ableton. I would like to get the best of both worlds while using maschine and ableton and still retain all of the flexibility with maschine while working in ableton. Is there a way to set up ableton so an ableton clip triggers a pattern or scene in maschine? Seems like the most logical thing to do but I'm not sure how. Additionally are there any ableton templates for maschine that have audio groups and sub groups and routing set up for each pad and group in maschine (or is there a limit of how much you can split audio out of maschine and are you limited to 16 outs?) Thanks. | |
| Anisa Fourte 15.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Romelia Stankard 09.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
Also sequencing that way is a lot more flexible than doing it in maschine. You can just drag in your main patterns as midi files, then if you need to make subtle changes or just use part of a pattern when you are arranging you can easily do that in your DAW without going into maschine and making a new pattern for every tiny little change so that it works in maschine's sequencer. I guess it's the same reason you prefer working with pro tools and the majority of people who produce electronic music prefer working in MIDI oriented DAWs. I just don't believe I would really gain anything from recording to audio, and I try to avoid doing it wherever possible since ableton is much better and more flexible working with MIDI than with audio files anyway. |
| Dorie Scelzo 09.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by TreTuna
I'm not attacking you (or anyone else who likes working that way) I just don't get it. Working with Audio is just easier for me…printing your sounds and some of your effects to audio makes you so much more careful about sound design (because it's harder to tweak after the fact) that I just don't see the advantages of working that way. I know it's just a different workflow, but I'm curious what you guys get out of it. |
| Dorie Scelzo 21.05.2012 | Just have to say…oh man, PT is so much easier than Logic as far as Maschine integration. Part of it is just that RTAS plugins can output MIDI (so can VSTs…AUs can't). But everything is just so much simpler. There is one thing that kinda bugs me, though…I wish it were easier to set quieter output levels in Maschine…like…set every output to default to something more like -16 or -20 instead of 0. Everything in it is hot as hell already and it's screwing up plugin inputs when I forget to change it. |
| Dorie Scelzo 17.05.2012 | I don't see the problem with 1. You can do it with synths or samples……you just have to figure out where the sound needs to start and make sure it's set to the right envelope to play out. For 2…I'm believeing there might be a way to do it with MIDI batch setup……but I haven't tried it. |
| Sylvia Greener 17.05.2012 | Hey Maschine guys now that I've read the whole thread I really agree with what you said about midi-over-audio and so on. As the OP I am also trying to figure out the best way to integrate Maschine in Ableton. I love almost everything about the Maschine and its workflow except two things: 1.) Without having a timeline (like you have in Ableton) it's hard to build in some freaky riser FX and downshifters into your song with the perfect timing. That's a big problem as I like to produce progressive-house and house-electro where these transition Fx are really important 2.) I've tried to find a solution for the following problem for more than half a year but still don't have one: For melodies that are a bit more complex I like to use my midi-keyboard rather then Maschine controller with only 16 pads. As usual this midi keyboard has 16 midi channels. What I would love to do is being able to trigger Maschine Group A with midi channel 1, Maschine Group B on midi channel 2 and so on using 8 midi channels to trigger all the Maschine groups seperately with my midi-keyboard. I am really thankful for any kind of idea to get this working properly! |
| Dorie Scelzo 16.05.2012 | I would totally drop $250 on one if I were sure it was assembled correctly. But, that's one of those things I might just rather get from them (they sell them assembled for $650). Considering how much I like ABL2, having one in hardware that can actually program note lengths correctly (is there a way to do this with ABL2 that I'm missing??) would be awesome. But, then, I love me some Acid. I've "wasted" a lot of bored afternoons with technobox2 on my iPhone. And despite the fact that just about every acid song uses a 303 in a similar way……somehow the good tracks never get old for me. Then again, the vast majority of blues uses guitars the same way……often with the same scales and chord progressions. And that doesn't get old either. |
| Romelia Stankard 16.05.2012 | Speaking of 303s I've been tempted to get a x0xb0x- I saw someone selling one assembled for $250 the other day but missed it. I don't really need it but if I was more into acid I would grab it for sure. I like acid techno in moderation I just don't know if I would use it enough. |
| Dorie Scelzo 16.05.2012 | I can see how that'd be annoying, but I'm not sure I'd ever want it to be that way. Then again, I stay in Maschine standalone a lot longer than anyone else does. I don't touch Logic (except as described below) until the song's basically done…unless I'm attempting to add a guitar part or something…which means I usually just bounce a stereo file out of Maschine as a guide track. I do wish I could tie sounds to MIDI (input) channels and set them to record without being in focus. I have a host of Maschine Groups that are MIDI output devices for a bunch of scales that I use as keyboards (because I can't play keyboard…makes for easier jamming) but the only way to really use them is to host the synth in something else. And Maschine has to be running Standalone using the IAC Driver to get MIDI into another DAW (or another instance of Maschine…haven't tried that yet) or you have to use the VST version of the plugin (which means, no Logic…it only does AU). If I could tie, say, group B sound 1 to MIDI channel 1 and assign Group E to the keyboard for the scale I want to use and have it output on MIDI channel 1, that'd be a lot more concise. As it stands, I'm recording audio from the synth in Logic (using the IAC driver and Logic's quantization), cutting it into sections, and loading the pieces as samples in Maschine. It works the way I have it, but it's not ideal. I'll have to try it with multiple instances of Maschine just to see what happens. Or I could learn how to play keyboard. ………or I could just devote myself to Acid Techno/House and only ever bother with 303s. |
| Romelia Stankard 16.05.2012 | I wish there was a way to set the output routing for each slot in maschine to always be set from 1-16 depending on the slot by default. It's annoying to load up a kit then have to go in and mess with the routing for each slot and then if you change the kit it returns back to default. I just want each slot for all groups to always go to it's corresponding audio channel so I can swap kits around and not have to rerout everything. Basically I want slot 1 to always go to output 1, slot 2 to output 2, etc. for all groups by default. |
| Romelia Stankard 16.05.2012 | I've got a question about dragging midi patterns into your DAW and triggering maschine actually. I was using only one group before but is there a way of having each group routed to a different midi channel? I would expect that's how it would work by default but it seems like the MIDI is triggering the associated slot number for each group simultaneously. I've messed around with midi routing a bit in ableton but no luck- what am I missing? edit: nevermind I got it, for some reason it wasn't working right in the last project I tried What is strange is when you change the midi pattern drag channel for one group inside maschine it changes the drag mode to that channel for all groups. But if you just route the midi output to the corresponding group number inside your DAW it works correctly. |
| Caleb Demillo 15.05.2012 | I believe I prefer leaving the MIDI in Maschine, routing audio, and using CC's to switch scenes/patterns in Maschine. It maintains the Maschine-like workflow. As long as you don't mind updating your patterns in Maschine itself. But I'm new to this! |
| Anisa Fourte 15.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Romelia Stankard 09.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
Also sequencing that way is a lot more flexible than doing it in maschine. You can just drag in your main patterns as midi files, then if you need to make subtle changes or just use part of a pattern when you are arranging you can easily do that in your DAW without going into maschine and making a new pattern for every tiny little change so that it works in maschine's sequencer. I guess it's the same reason you prefer working with pro tools and the majority of people who produce electronic music prefer working in MIDI oriented DAWs. I just don't believe I would really gain anything from recording to audio, and I try to avoid doing it wherever possible since ableton is much better and more flexible working with MIDI than with audio files anyway. |
| Georgina Schatzman 09.05.2012 | Simply because midi is much more flexible. Once you commit to audio, that's pretty much it. But if you want to try a different sample out, you still have the midi notes and can just drop the sample in and go. Plus you can copy the midi notes to other tracks as well and try and do layers and then make little adjustments on those layers while still keeping the main groove/riff. This is just a quick example off the top of my head. |
| Dorie Scelzo 09.05.2012 |
Originally Posted by TreTuna
I'm not attacking you (or anyone else who likes working that way) I just don't get it. Working with Audio is just easier for me…printing your sounds and some of your effects to audio makes you so much more careful about sound design (because it's harder to tweak after the fact) that I just don't see the advantages of working that way. I know it's just a different workflow, but I'm curious what you guys get out of it. |
| Anisa Fourte 09.05.2012 | This is a great Tut for splitting Maschine's outputs to Ableton and recording all your midi data into Ableton instead of Maschine. http://maschinetutorials.com/2011/01...ive-sequencer/ I also recommend this Ableton template for Maschine.. Works great! http://megatroid.noisepages.com/2012/02/megamaschine/ |
| Romelia Stankard 25.04.2012 | Doesn't get much better than dragging MIDI to clips- the groove pool works just fine there. Then with dragging midi you can still create up to 16 tracks in ableton and route each of maschine's parts to it's own track and group it and mix it and treat it exactly like you would a regular drum rack group where you have control of each part. That's what I do. |
| Leanne Woelfle 24.04.2012 | Thank you so much for your response and video! I will try to expand the screen so i can at least see the browser. Trully appreciated. On a last note, while you may be able to drag music from the maschine into ableton and get the beats warped you will run into other issues if your trying to tweak the sounds or even if your trying to use the groove pool features. For these reasons I feel there needs to be a better way to link these two so the features of maschine and ableton dont get lost. I mean we all paid a pretty price and it would be nice to get these two unified. |
| Romelia Stankard 24.04.2012 | You can see everything in the maschine VST you can see in the maschine standalone, it's all there but by default the VST window is smaller and some stuff is hidden- you may just have to increase the VST window size and click a few things to expand the maschine VST window and see everything (click the little arrows). Also no one told me this when I asked here or on the NI community s, but maschine and ableton integration is really, really, awesome and easy. You can drag and drop patterns from maschine VST into ableton as MIDI or as audio loops. |
| Leanne Woelfle 24.04.2012 | Hello, Im new to using ableton and have limited experience with mashine, so forgive my query if I sound well noobish. Im sorry to rehash the past in this post but it seems that none of the info above really makes any difference to anyone who is trying to actually integrate maschine with Ableton. We have a few people using mashine as a standalone, then we have a few using it as a VST, and a few opening up muted channels and redirecting the sound. If this is really the answer then between mashine and ableton there seems to be someting missing. I have looked up this issue and found a few other ways to map mashine and ableton together but its obvious these two platforms arent made for simple plug and play. I hope one of these companies works something out but in the meantime I am still trying to find the best way to integrate maschine with ableton. If you have a better way to make these two work together then please share it here - and remember there are Noobs looking to make this work, so baby word it if possible. My questions about this issue: **When using maschine as a VST, why are the beats I make up in the maschine VST available to see in the VST but not on the ableton instrument key section? I thought after getting a good groove on the mashine that I would see the what I made duplicated on the ableton screen and yet it only shows on the mashine VST. Can i do something to perhaps get the beats to show in ableton so i can play more within ableton? **Why is it when I use a maschine VST in ableton that I cannot see the maschine browser for music, I can search on the mashine controller for beats/samples but I see nothing on the browser for maschine in the actual VST? Basically I try to find beats faster by seeing them on the mashine browser but without the browser available I am searching on my controller to find the beats which is time consuming since I have a ton of files to go through. **Is there anyway of exporting or enabling the music samples from mashine to ableton so I can use the mashine's sample within ableton? I basically want to make the inventory of sounds show up in ableton, I'd like to believe that these sounds are interchangable but perhaps they are not - thus requiring the use of the mashine VST. Thank you for your time! Real |
| Cleora Herris 19.01.2012 | Hi Guys, I have got te following setup and realy like it for DJ'ng as for producing. this layout is based on the Akai apc40 -Maschine as a vst in ableton. -Group A+E share an audio out, the same for B/F, C/G and D/H. -Routed the outputs of each combined group to its own channel in ableton. So the first four channels in ableton are machine sampledecks and even during live performance i just grab a chuck of samples in ableton's explorer and drag them to the disired group. Now i have four channels left on my apc. These are my track decks. I put a warped track on deck A and copy it to the other three decks. deck one is an intro loop, deck two the drop, deck three the break, deck four the outro. This way i can play the drop of a track and the intro of another and just punch in a hihat loop on the maschine. I am kind of a techno freak and with this setup i af made allot of techno mashup's with songs from another genre easily. As for sampling; added a audiotrack in ableton that has it's audio in listening to the master bus from ableton and send it's output to machine. sorry for the typo's...working on it. http://soundcloud.com/r_a_w_s_e_w_a_g_e/rawsewage-attic-noise-001 |
| Dorie Scelzo 11.01.2012 | Mostly, I'm happy to have an 808, 909, and kit built off the amen break just sitting there. There's a lot of other stuff, but so much music has come out of those sounds, it's a great place to start IMHO. And I actually like the way Maschine does "synthesis," as in using a raw waveform in the sampler. Just having knobs that are labeled is a huge jump for the way I believe. Now if only they didn't require paging through stuff and using so many sounds |
| Romelia Stankard 10.01.2012 |
Originally Posted by blueprint
It's too bad there isn't better integration where every kit and pad automatically came in on its own channel in ableton. I also wish there was a way to have program actions trigger patterns instead of just scenes. |
| Jason Mcewing 10.01.2012 | tbh, I believe Maschine is cool but I work better with my mouse and just in Ableton by itself. Adding too many things to route and configure in what is essentially a daw within a daw is, quite frankly, not worth it. But alas, I bought the educational version so im going to stick with it whether or not i like it. |
| Romelia Stankard 10.01.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Dorie Scelzo 10.01.2012 | It's just a difference in workflow. I'd much rather have a full song as done as maschine can do and then record it into a DAW instead of going halfway. But, I also work better with audio than midi. Yes, I know it's more limiting and that otherwise it doesn't make much of a difference. The limiting is why I like it. I find myself focusing on the few things I know how to do comparatively well and tweaking forever as opposed to working on the things I don't know as well or aren't as good at. I find that committing to audio quickly helps me not worry about things. And if I really need to go back and do it again, I can. IMHO, if you're going halfway, there's no reason not to use a simpler software drum machine like Battery, BPM, Kong, ReDrum, Impulse, Ultrabeat, or Boom along with directly hosting synths. They all do kind of the same thing. IMHO the only thing Maschine has going for it is the workflow, and I believe it works better if you believe of it as an instrument instead of a plugin. Working the way I do seems to separate writing/performance with recording/mixing |
| Romelia Stankard 10.01.2012 | How do you find the worlkflow of recording audio from maschine vs. just running it as a VST? I figured out scene launching in maschine using clips with program actions which is pretty easy and I'm running a group with various audio channels for various sounds for mixing. I guess the benefit of recording loops is more flexibility with arrangement where the way I'm doing it is more prep work in maschine itself. |
| Jason Mcewing 10.01.2012 | I use Maschine as a VST route the output of the channel into a muted channel that is recording the Maschine channel. If I need to bounce out individual channels within maschine i just solo them and and record 4,8,16 bar clips within Live. It's not perfect and it's a bit annoying but the sounds included within Maschine are very high quality. |
| Dorie Scelzo 11.01.2012 | You're limited to 16 stereo outs. I'm not sure how Ableton works with it, but it's really straightforward in Logic and Pro Tools, so I'd imagine it's similar in Ableton. My guess is that you create some extra audio tracks and as long as you loaded one of the multi-channel versions of the plugin, you just select their inputs as outputs from the MIDI channel that's hosting Maschine. As for triggering Maschine scenes/patterns from Live |
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