How long does it take you to plan, practice, and record a mix?
How long does it take you to plan, practice, and record a mix? Posted on: 10.06.2012 by Madelene Witek I was just asked to do 15 minute mix by a DJ friend of mine who wants to send it to this local promotional agency sort of thing, mainly EDM. This means in 15 minutes i need to show off a bunch of genres, at my best mixing, etc. I'm going from House to Dubstep to DnB to Hip-Hop/Rap to Moombah, so a lot planning is sort of requiredI've been working on it everyday for about 4 days now, and am just now finishing up finalizing the tracklist, and will soon begin the process of planning each transition, making revisions here and there, practicing, and then finally recording. Hell I'll spend 30 minutes to an hour just trying to find the perfect mix between 2 songs. He messages me today like, are you done yet, and I told him that I am only just about to finish track planning, he was sort of surprised I wasn't finished yet, and it always takes me this long to make a mix. I thought as I got better i would be quicker at it, but as I get better I only get more creative with it, so the time it takes hasn't changed much at all haha.. So, 4 days of mixing, a couple hours each day, only just now finishing up a tracklist. Am I just really slow? Or is this just the time it takes to create a solid, good sounding mix. | |
Yukiko Beauvil 11.06.2012 |
hehehehehe |
Georgina Schatzman 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by ellgieff
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Rosenda Gossage 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
*shrugs* I'd rather not play for a bar owner or promoter who insisted on a 15 minute mix to determine whether he wants to book me or not. Because that person doesn't have the faintest clue what my art is about, and won't take the time to learn. It doesn't tell them anything at all about how I'd mix live. It tells me a lot about them as a club and/or promoter. It tells me they're the sort of "industry" twats that I wouldn't cross the road to urinate on if they were on fire and screaming. Yes, this means I don't get to play at those kinds of evening s. I can live with that. |
Lashawn Maycock 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
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Georgina Schatzman 11.06.2012 | Guess it depends on where you want to play what kind of crowd you want to play for |
Roseanna Signorini 11.06.2012 | One thing I have noticed are the people that want 60 min DJ mixes are DJs on a DJ community . 100% true that bar owners, most promoters do not sit there for an hour and listen to each track and each transition and critique it. A DJ/promoter would do this, but a straight up promoter or owner is going to thumb foward through the mix and is definitely not going to sit there for an hour, no way, not going to happen. You can easily fit 6-7 tracks in a 15 min mix to showcase the best of what you can do. It doesn't have to be every trick in the book. They want to hear your song selection, the energy, your mixing ability in general and all of that can easily be done in 15 min. What some of you seem to forget, its not about you the DJ, they don't care about you, the venue isn't there for you, you are there for the venue. Yes we know that without a DJ, there is no music and everything stops but they don't look at it like that, they believe they are doing you a favor by letting you play. Bottomline, get your tracks together and just do an on the fly mix, if it sux, do it again until you like it. Don't over believe. I find the best mixes happen on the fly anyway. |
Dorie Scelzo 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by JasonBay
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Lashawn Maycock 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by JasonBay
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Georgina Schatzman 11.06.2012 | My god, what kind of places do you guys frequent, try and get gigs at? |
Onie Sarandos 12.06.2012 | It's not that unusual that a place will ask for a mix of no more than 15-30 mins. On the whole I don't see alot of promoters, club/bar owners listening to hour-long mixes. As for how long it takes, it depends. It sounds like what you want to accomplish will take some planning. My mixes vary. They can be real time minute for minute mixes where I'm just hopping on and letting it flow. Other mixes have taken me weeks or even longer, if I want to tell a specific story with the mix, pre-plan what tracks are going in and in what order, obtaining and planning out samples, etc. Even when the planning is done, it can still take awhile because all of my mixes are always done straight through (no post-mix editing), so if there's anything I don't like, I start all over. |
Dorie Scelzo 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by Flash101uk
And, no, Traktor's not a DAW. Not by any possible stretch of any imagination. |
Dione Haimes 11.06.2012 | I have 20 minute mixes for handing out on CDs, and hand out business cards which has my soundcloud which are all 45min-an hour mixes. |
Corrin Penney 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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Dorie Scelzo 11.06.2012 | If you're not recording in a DAW, what are you recording into? |
Corrin Penney 11.06.2012 | As far as creating a mix goes, it takes me a good week or so with several hours in the studio prepping tracks and trying out transitions to find the right tunes to link it together with. This is mainly due to me mixing with new tunes that im totally unfamiliar with. But youve gotta believe that the people listening to your mix arent going to be in a club environment. They'll be chilling with their headphones on where its very easy to pick out a dodgy transition or key clash. You want to put out the best possible production you can as people will judge you on it. I do believe though that a mix should not be prepped or recorded in a DAW, as it is not a reflection of ones level of skill on the gear they will be using in a club. But a decent mix in 15 mins will strain you. It makes me believe that the promoter doesnt understand DJing the way DJ's do. I would expect he's probably after some mashup of peak time bangers. |
Brunilda Kora 11.06.2012 | Make some edits - you'll be able to squeeze more tracks in. Edit em' so it just goes Intro > Verse > Chorus > Outro. Although it sounds to me like they want to see what you can do in 15 minutes. Like some guys have said, 15 mins might only be 2 tracks, but 15 minutes of turtablism/controlerism/mash-ups is a LOT of time to fill. Battle routines are usually only 2mins - and those DJ's pack a hell of a lot into the time they have. |
Dorie Scelzo 11.06.2012 | I agree that a lot of it is cutthroat, but if a promoter isn't willing to spend the time it takes to evaluate an hour-long mix (which is at most 75-80 minutes including a couple stages of litmus tests and assuming the mix passes all of them the way Jason described) then I believe you're going to get the gig or not based on number of facebook friends, twitter followers, and soundcloud/mixcloud plays and it doesn't matter what's on the mix. And, I do believe my suggestion would work. Record a full mix showing whatever you want…let it take an hour. Then cut out 75% in a DAW…leave one phrase/verse per track at most + a transition and that's it. It shows an hour's worth of programming, all of the transitions, and you might still have time for an effects routine. Just make sure your edits are perfectly clean and fudge by fixing drifting tempos if you have to. Now…the way I mix, just the transitions from an hour long mix would probably take more than 15 minutes, and I don't believe it's possible to get through all the genres I like while doing any justice to them in an hour…but still. I believe that's better than trying to cram shit in where it doesn't belong. |
Freida Leash 11.06.2012 | What kind of djs do the production company normally book, multiple rooms, one shot party, etc... I believe if you move off those ideas you will better know what tracks either original or what routines to move thru in 15 minutes. It might be that you shouldn't even perform for them, given your vibe and their intentions. |
Lashawn Maycock 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by Sn0wday
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Lashawn Maycock 11.06.2012 | I have to agree with with what has been said by Jason/Mostapha above. I tend to ignore any online mixes shorter than 30mins; I just know with a 15min mix it'll be wham bam and it's all over, and although it may contain some clever mixing, it just doesn't do it for me and is not representative of what would happen in a club environment (at least one I'd want to go to! ) I quickly flick through, just like record buying, see if the style is what I'm after, then either discard or play for longer if my attention has been grabbed. This method means it's easy to review a longer mix, in fact I find it's better as I can hear start, middle, ending and the progression in between in a few minutes. I would also point out that the majority of the mixes (be that online, radio or CD release) by the 'big boys' are all at least an hour long, I've not seen a 15 min mix by James Zabiela for example. |
Madelene Witek 11.06.2012 | QUOTE=JasonBay;488982]I'm with Mostapha on this one.When I was getting demos, if I got anything less than 60mins I tossed it as it could never show me the number one skill I valued in DJs, programming. If he could have a consistent mix from start to finish that progressed and it did something while still making sense, then there's no way he would be able to do that properly for 4 hours. Shit, 15mins could only be two tracks for me possibly when I'm DJing live[/QUOTE] My other problem.. I'm supposed to showcase everything so it's like... Porter Robinson, 3 minutes later, Ludacris, 5 minutes later Knife Party. It just feels all over the place. Like over the top genre jumping. |
Reda Holdsworth 11.06.2012 | A bunch said here that I agree with. Just want to add this.... Be careful spending to much time on a mix. IMO it will sound overproduced & you miss the unexplainable magic that happens when things flow perfectly by chance & that's the good stuff. I'd prefer to spend A day making ten 15min mixes & pick the best one. Consider it practice. |
Georgina Schatzman 11.06.2012 | Going through demo mixes isn't that hard to be honest, it's just like riffling through tracks as if you're DJing. Have a pile, pop it in and jump around, if the track selection and sounds don't even interest you in 20 seconds, toss it. Not that hard. And these are only for the ones that have passed the prerequisite of being at least 60mins plus and having a tracklisting. Just from that alone you knocked out 98% of the mixes, not that much to listen to when you're driving, doing shit around the house or are doing shit online. And from there if the first transition or two are shoddy there's no need to listen anymore. If they are doing shoddy transitions in the comfort of their own home, how do you believe they'll be able to perform on an actual club system? |
Alla Bluemke 11.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by JasonBay
I dunno I just know when I took peoples CDs in for the evening s I ran I rarely listened to anything unless the person stood out, and even then I fast forwarded just to get to the mix part to hear how they were mixing. |
Georgina Schatzman 10.06.2012 | I'm with Mostapha on this one.When I was getting demos, if I got anything less than 60mins I tossed it as it could never show me the number one skill I valued in DJs, programming. If he could have a consistent mix from start to finish that progressed and it did something while still making sense, then there's no way he would be able to do that properly for 4 hours. Shit, 15mins could only be two tracks for me possibly when I'm DJing live |
Madelene Witek 10.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Originally Posted by DJ Abercrombie
Originally Posted by Janky
They keep saying just like edm, or electronca (in the respect of "electronic music"). So I got 15 minutes to cram like 6 genres in.
Originally Posted by rdale
Originally Posted by guiltyblade
Yeah I live in a pretty small town, not many DJ's, but at the same time not much of a scene. Eh, I guess i'll work this out eventually... |
Alla Bluemke 10.06.2012 | Dude almost any promoter on earth will probably only listen to a mix for about 15-30 mins MAX. They have no attention span to listen to any further then that. Asking them to sit for an hour out of their time when they have lord knows how many submissions is just dj masturbation. An hour long mix is REALLY long to show what you have. You don't need to take them on a journey cause the guy doesn't care about the journey. He cares can you mix and what songs are you dropping. In chicago almost every promoter I asked to play with asked for 30 min MAX mix. You need to show whoever the person listening to it your style right away, move through some signature tracks that make you who you are. If you hook them enough either they will book or listen to another mix. I dunno maybe I take it from a promoter side, but I promoted in addition to DJing in Chicago and I know there, where its goddamn cut-throat, you need to be noticed anyway you can. Just to get them to press the play button is big enough. |
Dorie Scelzo 10.06.2012 | 15 minutes is not enough time to show off what you want to show off. If I were doing his job and got a 15 minute mix as a submission, the guy wouldn't get hired…period. But, then, I'm not that promo company. 15 minutes is still complete bullshit for what you want to do. I'd record an hour mix or however long it takes to show off what you want to show off and then cut out everything that isn't absolutely essential in a DAW. If they or anyone complains that its cheating…I'd say 15 minutes is selling myself short and that I don't care……but I probably wouldn't bother anyway. If they only want 15 minutes, either I'll get it off my facebook, twitter, and mixcloud pages or I won't (almost certainly the later). |
Alla Bluemke 10.06.2012 | I honestly believe you are over believeing it wayyyyyy too much. I can make a fairly banging mix in 30 mins, with about 10 or so tracks in there easily. You can fit a fair number of tracks if you mix correctly. Choose from a pool of tracks and mix with a little bit of ADD and you are set. Sometimes I screw up and I have to remix the set, but its actually even better cause I know my transition points better. So I say like 30 mins of picking tracks, 15 mins of actual LIVE mixing, and give yourself another 15 mins in case you screw it up a couple times. So in total an hour to make a perfect 15 min mix. |
Rosenda Gossage 10.06.2012 | The only time I've done a mix this short for "promo" was when a VJ mate asked for one - so we could do a video promo. Even then, all I did was pick the tunes I wanted to play (5, in 10 minutes), run through a couple of times finding reasonable mix points, set cuepoints on the CDJs (this was before I was using Traktor) so it could work - and then bang it out. I ended up doing it twice, because the first one had a cock-up I just couldn't pass on. If I was doing the kind of thing you're doing, I'd probably do it in a DAW rather than live. Because if the mix wasn't representative of the way I actually play, then I wouldn't constrain myself to actually playing it. And the reality is I'd not do a 15 minute mix as a promo, unless there's a real good reason. I'm never gonna play a 15 minute set, as someone else has already said ... |
Pilar Maure 10.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by Sn0wday
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Marguerite Truka 10.06.2012 | I would listen to the radio one mini mixes to get some insperation, heres some of my faves awsome also proves calvin harris plays hip hop, just not shit hop oh and my fave dj ever YODAAAA gotta put cable in there as he is local |
Freida Leash 10.06.2012 | Unless you are just putting down a blistering amount of music, the way a ton of chicago house dj's would tend to drop a new track every 45 seconds, I don't know how 15 minutes is long enough for an EDM type demo. I believe maybe if you have routine that you are currently using, play a track, mix into the routine, mix out of the routine and close, that is about all the time you have. You might even want to start at the breakdown on the first track to save some time. I would probably put it together in a session, then start mixing that playlist until it is tight either later that day or the next day. So probably no more than 4 hours of effort from start to finish. |
Emerson Crist 10.06.2012 | Im in the same boat as you. I play multiple genres of music from chillout, glitch hop, dubstep, electronica, indie, house, breakbeat, tech house, progressive,techno, minimal, DnB (thats my first love), electro, hard house/hardcore. I got asked recently if I have any promo mixes to show off and I didnt really have answer, since most of my mixes are usually only one or two genres, and those tend to compliment each other i.e. techno and breakbeat, DnB and Dubstep or Chillout and Electronica. I started believeing about how I could best present myself to people in terms of promos. I recently got Ableton live to help with my producing side, and was believeing about making 15 or 30 minute mini mixes with the aforementioned genres. This would give me an edge with different promoters, such as, if I wanted to play at a coffee shop I could hand them an Indie/Electronica/Chillout mix. If I wanted to play at an EDM friendly club, I could hand them a Techno, Tech House, Progressive mix. For a more hardcore rave crowd, I could hand them a DnB/Dubstep/Hardcore mix. Perhaps making a mega mix about an hour long showcasing all the genres I play as well. The way I was believeing was to make a 5 min mix live with each genre, with my best mixing all done on the fly. After ive recorded a few of these, I could go into Ableton, string them together, add the tempo automation if needed, EQ, Limit, etc. Thats one route, and while some may find it "misrepresenting", I believe its the best way to get noticed. |
Rosina Stanford 10.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by Sn0wday
Surely, if they are not willing to listen to a promotional mix longer than 15 minutes, they are looking for a more “Commercial DJ” than hardcore? |
Georgina Schatzman 10.06.2012 |
Originally Posted by Sn0wday
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Hipolito Scionti 10.06.2012 | It's just an unrealistic thing to ask... You'll never play a 15 minute set. I could see, if I really thought about it, how it might take me a half day. |
Madelene Witek 10.06.2012 | mmm... I believe you're missing my point entirely. I have 15 minutes, only 15 minutes, to give them an idea of what I tend to spin, and how well I can do that. I kind of get what you're saying, but I don't believe perfecting transitions/really putting a lot of thought into a mix is "misrepresenting" myself. I believe what i'm trying to ask is, am I simply taking the time to create something of quality, or do i need to stop being indecisive and get on with my life. What also is causing me to take so long I believe is how fast my library grows especially in EDM, and I have so many songs to choose from and can never decide. |
Linda Chavda 10.06.2012 | In that case I tracklist everything and maybe make some little bootlegs to make stuff work better. |
Kellee Quarless 10.06.2012 | Try mixing for like an hour or two and then pick your favorite 15 minutes and send it to them. |
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