NI's Pioneer Video

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NI's Pioneer Video
Posted on: 23.08.2012 by Freida Leash


We have discussed it before but was fuzzy on what the CDJ's would actually display then there were subthreads on getting proper track info to display. This seems like great integration, compared to what I was expecting when it was announced. I'm still not ready to chunk down $6k on a set up for the house, but I like the idea a lot and the video is pretty cool in demonstrating things.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
25.08.2012		The point is that in VDJ it will make the click through both soundcards when it syncs them, so you have to kill the sound from both to avoid it coming through the speakers, if that is the case the you need a third music source to continue the mix then make the switchover... That is why I wanted wireless HID for the next line of cdj's then you could use your own soundcard like an Audio 2 and make transitions seamlessly as you only have to deal with your soundcard. The controller switching would have no issues especially wirelessly.

Originally Posted by synthet1c
how about a wireless dongle that you can plug into your laptop usb 3.0 that connects to up to 4 cdj's, when you are changing dj's the next dj can have a dongle in their laptop and reassign the free cdj's to their system for seemless minimal setup transitions between dj's... no cables = awesome
Arla Seniw
25.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
Do you need to kill the sound completely on changeovers when using the cdj's soundcards.. Typically small to medium size clubs only have 2 CDJ2000's that are always in use. What happens when changing over one deck at a time to continue the mix from a dj using cd's or usb's or at the end of a set changing back over when using Traktor? when you connect any soundcard in VDJ it has to sync them which results in a fast audible click through the speakers.
Just put the line fader down or the cross fader the other side?
Shonda Soulier
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by No Left Turn
I wish there were built-in hubs between all of the Pioneer devices or at least some way of linking them altogether into one single connection to the computer. Still seems clunky having to connect 3-5 USB devices to the laptop just to get this all working.
Excellent point.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
25.08.2012		The point is that in VDJ it will make the click through both soundcards when it syncs them, so you have to kill the sound from both to avoid it coming through the speakers, if that is the case the you need a third music source to continue the mix then make the switchover... That is why I wanted wireless HID for the next line of cdj's then you could use your own soundcard like an Audio 2 and make transitions seamlessly as you only have to deal with your soundcard. The controller switching would have no issues especially wirelessly.

Originally Posted by synthet1c
how about a wireless dongle that you can plug into your laptop usb 3.0 that connects to up to 4 cdj's, when you are changing dj's the next dj can have a dongle in their laptop and reassign the free cdj's to their system for seemless minimal setup transitions between dj's... no cables = awesome
Arla Seniw
25.08.2012
Originally Posted by synthet1c
Do you need to kill the sound completely on changeovers when using the cdj's soundcards.. Typically small to medium size clubs only have 2 CDJ2000's that are always in use. What happens when changing over one deck at a time to continue the mix from a dj using cd's or usb's or at the end of a set changing back over when using Traktor? when you connect any soundcard in VDJ it has to sync them which results in a fast audible click through the speakers.
Just put the line fader down or the cross fader the other side?
Jonathan Chiuchiolo
25.08.2012		Do you need to kill the sound completely on changeovers when using the cdj's soundcards.. Typically small to medium size clubs only have 2 CDJ2000's that are always in use. What happens when changing over one deck at a time to continue the mix from a dj using cd's or usb's or at the end of a set changing back over when using Traktor? when you connect any soundcard in VDJ it has to sync them which results in a fast audible click through the speakers.
Khadijah Bucker
25.08.2012		excellent, thank you!
Nita Eviston
24.08.2012

Thought I would post this image from my setup to share some knowledge, and maybe provide a few examples to clear some things up.

I have one usb hub, it is powered but i do not currently need to have it plugged in, which connects X1,F1, 2xCDJ900s. My laptops other usb goes to my DJM900(soundcard). In this instance, the cdjs are not sending any audio what so ever, just controlling the deck in the same way any midi controller would (although with much better jog/pitch accuracy, and in a familiar-to-cdj user layout).

Say i was to take my laptop, X1,F1 to my local venue for example. They have 2xCDJ2000s and a DJM800, so i would need to use the CDJ2000s built in soundcards due to the 800 not having its own, achieved (at least on mac, i believe a similar process with windows) by aggregating the 2 different CDJ soundcards to 1 device my computer splits into 4 channels, Right/Left Chan A, Right/Left Chan B. This method is quite similar to putting an Audio6/8/10 inbetween the decks and using timecode, without having to touch any audio cables, and because the CDJs are becoming controllers, much more depth of control than using timecode.

In another scenario, say my buddy brings his Kontrol S4 over. he is really into tech/ deep house, so he wants to rock 4 decks in traktor without having to use the s4s switch layer to get to decks C/D. We can easily plug my two CDJ900s and define them as Decks C/D as soon as the players are connected. These will then just become controllers again, with all audio handled by his controllers built in soundcard.

hope that clears up some ideas for some of you!
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012		yeah i believe so
Ossie Pooley
24.08.2012		Just put them in seperate USB ports and configure as such?
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012		i believe the S2 as normal then 900's over midi. no need for the audio 6, the S2 should be able to act as soundcard?
Ossie Pooley
24.08.2012		So let's say I have 2 CDJ900s, A Laptop with Traktor and instead of a mixer an S2 and Audio 6 Soundcard.

How would I set that up as opposed to with a mixer like the DMJ900?
Shonda Soulier
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by No Left Turn
I wish there were built-in hubs between all of the Pioneer devices or at least some way of linking them altogether into one single connection to the computer. Still seems clunky having to connect 3-5 USB devices to the laptop just to get this all working.
Excellent point.
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012		thought as much. ill pull the trigger on this cdm-400 purchase lol
Amira Gotcher
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by AtgAni
and the audio just goes to the mixer via rca cables as if there was no laptop involved? just trying to get my head fully around it
yes, that's exactly how it works...
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by DJ Bob
if your mixer has a soundcard that you want to use instead of the onboard cdj soundcards then yes it needs to be connected and set up as the output from traktor.
if your mixer doesn't have a soundcard then you will just use the cdjs soundcards instead.
and the audio just goes to the mixer via rca cables as if there was no laptop involved? just trying to get my head fully around it
Amira Gotcher
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by AtgAni
so the mixer definitely doesnt need connecting to the laptop at all? the cdj's and mixer are connected as though theres no laptop?
if your mixer has a soundcard that you want to use instead of the onboard cdj soundcards then yes it needs to be connected and set up as the output from traktor.
if your mixer doesn't have a soundcard then you will just use the cdjs soundcards instead.
Meg Reinoehl
24.08.2012		I wish there were built-in hubs between all of the Pioneer devices or at least some way of linking them altogether into one single connection to the computer. Still seems clunky having to connect 3-5 USB devices to the laptop just to get this all working.
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012		so the mixer definitely doesnt need connecting to the laptop at all? the cdj's and mixer are connected as though theres no laptop?
Amira Gotcher
24.08.2012		You can now use ANY mixers soundcard with these CDJs in Advanced HID mode WITHOUT the need for Traktor Scratch certification as they bypass the need for timecode and you get the full Scratch functionality... I've been testing this with 2 x CDJ2000's and and an Allen & Heath DB4 and it works like a dream.

Plus running Rekordbuddy keeps your music collection in sync in both Rekordbox and Traktor so all playlists, beatgrids, cue, hotcue and loop points are exactly the same in both applications. Clever stuff.
Shonda Soulier
24.08.2012		Correct, there is middleware from Pioneer that needs to be installed to get the mixer to act as an external soundcard. I don't know if it needs to be running at all times though--maybe it sends firmware changes to the mixer depending on whether you want HID or timecode control.
Julissa Serrone
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
NI is actually mentioning the CDJ400 in that video and I wonder how tight the jogs/pitch faders are after the quite generic "improved CDJ integration" item in the changelog for 2.5.1.
I never got a chance to use 400s but I might have to play a gig with only that and no TTs, might as well rock the HID.
I have not tried out 2.5.1 with 400's, but with previous versions the jogwheel response was pretty crappy. SSL had a MUCH tighter response. I was surprised to hear they mention them aswell.
Delila Vandommelen
24.08.2012		Right, so on OS X the aggregation is performed by an utility you can get from Pioneer.
On Windows (which is what I'm using) the CDJ driver from Pioneer does this for you. You then select CDJ 1/2 L/R and so forth in your audio output routing panel. Wayyyyy simpler than using Asio4all - you don't have to do anything outside of the output routing.
The numbering happens depending on the order in which you usually plug in the devices and I don't believe it changes on the fly if you swap things out
The 2000s were still plugged in with RCAs to the mixer which was a Xone 92. Obviously, with the audio coming out of the actual CDJs, the mixer is irrelevant.

NI is actually mentioning the CDJ400 in that video and I wonder how tight the jogs/pitch faders are after the quite generic "improved CDJ integration" item in the changelog for 2.5.1.
I never got a chance to use 400s but I might have to play a gig with only that and no TTs, might as well rock the HID.
Ciara Cuttill
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by AtgAni
this isnt the way its made out in the video
My bad, but after watching again yes you can use them as audio interfaces with aggregating
Nita Eviston
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by Lilac
So just to clarify, I can rock up to a club with an X1 and, assuming they have CDJ 900/2K, just plug them straight into a laptop with Traktor and go crazy?

hmmm, maybe do a little more research before that. If the venue doesn't have a DJM900, then you need to learn how to create an aggregate sound device with your laptop (making the 2 cdj separate soundcards into one).

I have played alot with CDJ900/DJM900/CDJ2000/DJM800 combos, and would not recommend a traktor controller user just show up and expect it to work. Being a modular setup, there are more variables to go wrong, and if you dont know your stuff, there is alot to go wrong. Having said that, i do believe CDJs and DJM900 is the most premium traktor experience i have ever had.
Ossie Pooley
24.08.2012		So just to clarify, I can rock up to a club with an X1 and, assuming they have CDJ 900/2K, just plug them straight into a laptop with Traktor and go crazy?
Galina Mancinas
24.08.2012		I, for one, believe this is completely awesome. From a technical standpoint it eliminates a hell of a lot of complexity for Traktor users to play out. A few outlets and some usb cables and you're good to go. With the X1\F1, Xone 1d, MF line, the new Behringer modulers I see MAD potential to roll up with a really compact setup and have infinite options for workflow.

What's even more awesome to me is that I can see this being the tipping point for Traktor being viewed as a "real" option. There's still this perception that if you don't roll up and do it on the CDJ's you aren't a "real" DJ. This kicks that door wide open. I can't fathom how the snobbery can continue when a Traktor DJ can roll up to the club gear, plug in a few USB cables and do it to it. My hope is that it becomes just about "who can rock the house" instead of "who can rock the house using exactly this gear and workflow".

Good times ahead
Daniell Kosharek
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by tekki
Wow, this is cool!

(Though using 2000s as just MIDI controllers with built-in audio interfaces seems excessively expensive! )
It was not the objective/reason of the update. I don't have any soundcard because I always use my S4. Now I can leave it at home and use the club mixer and CDJ's...
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by mwn11
If you connect the 2 cdj's via usb to the laptop and traktor and then they send the sound to the mixer, does it even have to be a pioneer mixer?

The way i saw it, it was explaining two different ways of connecting.

1. Using the cdj's to the laptop to pull music from it and play through there sound card.

2. Setting up the djm as a scratch certified mixer. i.e. how to use the djm as mixer with a traktor audio card built in.
thats the way i interpreted it. believeing im going to trade in my s4 for some 400's, an X1 and probably a dim-250. once the cdj's are hooked up if you add an X1 i see the mixer only really acts as a crossfader/monitor/eq box so no need for anything fancy
Arla Seniw
24.08.2012		If you connect the 2 cdj's via usb to the laptop and traktor and then they send the sound to the mixer, does it even have to be a pioneer mixer?

The way i saw it, it was explaining two different ways of connecting.

1. Using the cdj's to the laptop to pull music from it and play through there sound card.

2. Setting up the djm as a scratch certified mixer. i.e. how to use the djm as mixer with a traktor audio card built in.
Khadijah Bucker
24.08.2012
Originally Posted by Eliot Han
the cdj acts as a controller, you would still need the an external audio soundcard or a mixer such as the djm nexus to use as a soundcard.
this isnt the way its made out in the video

Originally Posted by bumtsch
You can use the CDJ's built-in audio interfaces. You can use another interface of course but I tried this with 2000s and *just* my laptop with no issues at a gig.
so the decks were set up to play cd's and all you did was plug usb into the 2 cdj's and switch them to usb mode? this is what im hoping its like, if it is im buying some 400's and a cheap djm
Random X
24.08.2012		Wow, this is cool!

(Though using 2000s as just MIDI controllers with built-in audio interfaces seems excessively expensive! )
Freida Leash
23.08.2012		The way I'm understanding it is, three to five usb for each CDJ and mixer, the audio is exported using the 900's soundcard. Looks like there should be a way to get it to link, but it don't from what I see. That would be hot, USB from the mixer, the rest some kind of bridge from that, but that is next level stuff from what I see, at least this all almost there, which is closer than it was a year ago. All this means roll into the club, set up a powered hub, laptop, plug in their CDJ and mixer via USB, your X1, midifighter or what ever, then jam out. It really shouldn't be that long of a transition and can be pretty quick, but still tinkering with things more than I like even though I'm super excited.
Alyse Plantenga
23.08.2012
Originally Posted by bumtsch
You can use the CDJ's built-in audio interfaces. You can use another interface of course but I tried this with 2000s and *just* my laptop with no issues at a gig.
Yes, you aggregate the two CDJ's together to appear as one interface in traktor. 2 x USB from cdjs into laptop. Laptop sends HID info to CDJs as well as audio to their respective audio interface. Sound then goes to mixer at line inputs. Alterantively could use them just as controllers and hook up a third usb from a 850/900. Using just the two CDJ route allows for swapping out easier with other traktor dj's. My biggest thing for this HID is that i don't have to look at the laptop screen with this set up. The laptop can be off to the side with lights dimmed and screen tilted away.
Delila Vandommelen
23.08.2012		You can use the CDJ's built-in audio interfaces. You can use another interface of course but I tried this with 2000s and *just* my laptop with no issues at a gig.
Ciara Cuttill
23.08.2012
Originally Posted by AtgAni
This is where I'm unsure. Does traktor send the audio signal from the deck its controlling to the CDj which then sends it to the mixer as though it's just playing a cd? (I'm referring to just connecting the cdj's to the laptop)
the cdj acts as a controller, you would still need the an external audio soundcard or a mixer such as the djm nexus to use as a soundcard.
Goldie Gadbois
23.08.2012		rofl.
Eloy Kiepke
23.08.2012
Originally Posted by Fuxxwiddit
Usb to laptop -> 1/8 out of the laptop into rca of the DJM 900?


.....No.
Khadijah Bucker
23.08.2012		This is where I'm unsure. Does traktor send the audio signal from the deck its controlling to the CDj which then sends it to the mixer as though it's just playing a cd? (I'm referring to just connecting the cdj's to the laptop)
Danae Dumler
23.08.2012
Originally Posted by Fuxxwiddit
Usb to laptop -> 1/8 out of the laptop into rca of the DJM 900?
edit: oh never mind I misunderstood your post...

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