Can we have a poll about satisfaction levels concerning NI and their USB3 problem.

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Can we have a poll about satisfaction levels concerning NI and their USB3 problem.
Posted on: 27.09.2012 by Faustino Stringfellow
I like many ran into the BSOD with USB3, but not recently, I reported it first over 18 months ago.

They are acting as if USB3 came out yesterday, what's worse is that they initially blamed the users, for not being able to set up their machines.

Then came a wave of ridiculous statements on how to "fix" it ..some of which just fubar'd laptops.

Now it seems their statement is "your own stupid fault for buying a new USB3 laptop, you should check the spec's", like they don't know that all new laptops are USB3.

I'm getting pretty annoyed, especially with Freshfluke who seems to want the kudos of working with NI, but refuses to actually be the bridge between user and manufacturer.

I've invested a few thousand on NI kit, some of which I can't use, unless I use an old under-powered laptop, which is is unsuitable for the load Traktor now produces.

I have suggested that they really take a look at Windows 8, as it has no problems with USB3, however I'm shot down again, rather than asked to participate in beta trails etc.

If I know about the problem, surely their professional coders would know more ...

I mean what sort of fix is crippling a brand new $2500 macbook pro's usb3 ports and forcing them to use USB2, something she attempted to tell users to do to their Windows based machines, ultimately knackering many of them.

Where do these stupid knee jerk reactions get us as users, no-where but into frustration and some sending their laptops off for repair.

I've personally had enough, the NI stuff goes on sale today. I love Traktor, but after spending all the money I have done 2 x S4,F1, X1, TP, PSP, Audio8, Audio4, various TCV's etc etc. and getting nowhere with it ... enough is enough.

The major problem is the level of support and the way that some of their moderators treat customers, I am regularly shocked at the way people like freshfluke speak to their PAYING customers ..I guess she gets it all free.

It's not just to me, I'm the one that usually chips in at the end, points out a few things, then she'll either delete the comment or close the thread.

Okay seems like I'm picking on her, but in this case she's been the worst offender, but over the years others have been the same.


I believe the only way this will improve is as users we get together and demand some real answers, timelines and FACTUAL solutions that work.


Obviously there's no point to opening this on the NI community as it will be closed or deleted, but if enough people here get together, it can be sent to their head office to show what's really going on.

regards
Mark Stewart
Jackpot Slot Machine
Barcelona/UK
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
When you check that box and click submit thread it should tell you your thread has been posted and the next page that automatically loads will be where you fill in your poll questions. There is a timeout on filling in the poll questions so if there's quite a few that need to be typed out it's best to get them ready before you actually start the poll.

I just double checked this and it worked for me so if you're checking that box and not getting the page to add in questions let me know.
ah very cool, thanks photojojo. i didn't want to submit the test thread i was doing in case it went all the way through.
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
i'm not making a snap judgement, merely expressing my anecdotal experiences, same as is the op. mine just happens to be misaligned with yours and his. i'm also not going to go search out threads on another site that he is referring to so if you guys want people to see them as evidence then feel free to post them here and i may take the time to read them.

i tried to offer assistance to the op but got condescending and dismissive replies. i then countered with my experiences on the subject showing that there are people who aren't having these issues. the op wanted a poll on the situation and i figured there was going to be more than one option: ni is awful. i don't know how many people will find that helpful, but i assure you that your insults and sarcastic tone are clearly not helping the situation.
Leeanna Ayla
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot

when you submit a thread, under additional options there is a "post a poll" check box, though it doesn't allow for any poll options once i click it so i'm not sure what's going on with that. i tried in 2 different browsers so maybe a mod can chime in.

When you check that box and click submit thread it should tell you your thread has been posted and the next page that automatically loads will be where you fill in your poll questions. There is a timeout on filling in the poll questions so if there's quite a few that need to be typed out it's best to get them ready before you actually start the poll.

I just double checked this and it worked for me so if you're checking that box and not getting the page to add in questions let me know.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
When you say yawn that's dismissing someones opinion as boring and worthless. I understand your frustration with the problem not getting fixed, but you have to remember a large number of the members on here don't go to the NI community s so they're not familiar with your struggles. They don't know that hundreds of people may have said the same exact thing that they just said to you. Because of that when you dismiss their comment as worthless they get defensive. That combined with the way you feel about having to deal with this issue for way to long will just lead to arguing and nothing beneficial. I suspect that's why you have had some threads closed.

We will not close a thread simply because you or anybody else is being critical of NI, but we will close a thread that's nothing more that petty bickering.

don't worry I'm not pursuing it any longer, users here and on the NI community can contact me directly if they want help and are not getting the answers they need.
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.
you can read my post in here. you clearly said you resolved the issue with a firmware upgrade, then a driver update you applied broke everything again. you never answered my question about why you didn't roll it back directly after if stopped working. you didn't provide any information on what you've done as you are simply looking to have other dissatisfied people agree with you. which again is fine to me, but be prepared for people to have a wholly different experience than you and express that as it is related to the subject at hand.

If you don't agree with me, please refrain from commenting unless you have something truly inspiring to offer, there remains the fact that MANY users can't use the FLAGSHIP & CURRENT product on modern laptops ...that still remains a FACT.
i see, so you are able to start a negative thread and poll on a company then tell people to not post if they have differing opinions and experiences on the matter. i wasn't fully disagreeing with you either, but at the same time you are showing no evidence of these threads and i'm not going to go search for them. if you want to show how bad their service is with an example by all means, post up some links.

So you say your ADJ8 is working, that's excellent news, however the same cannot be said for everyone. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
it's not difficult to comprehend and i understand that, but neither of us have statistics to show how many people have this working vs not working. there's no need to be so condescending because i have a different experience than you. i feel for the people who have this and other issues and i hope they can get them sorted. unlike you i do not wish for people to be inflicted with hardware problems.

As for why the things are closed, I offer TESTED, ACCURATE AND DEFINITIVE SOLUTIONS, backed with a guide and sometimes even a video, so when they publish stupid things that I know from 30 years experience I point out not only what is wrong I say WHY it's wrong and include details and where possible references.
so then why don't you put up these guides and solutions for all to fix this issue here so people can follow it. you say your gear doesn't work, then you say you have tested and accurate solutions. which one is it?

I try my very best to HELP people in this world, maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I should join the would or fanboys and haters, forget about correct solutions and accurate information ..and say to the world ..."so **ck, should have bought a Mac". Or simply "It's doesn't work so **ck off complaining".

It's such a nice world we live in now isn't it? Help a fellow man ...nah ...f**k him and his problems, I don't have them so they don't exist.
to me you are turning a blind eye to all of the helpful posts across the internet where people volunteer their time to help others with issues. you have a problem and all of a sudden these posts no longer exist to you and all you see are the "buy a mac" comments. i see people here trying to help other users everyday and if i know how to fix something i will try and help as well. if you can't roll back your drivers to fix the issue, then sorry, i don't know what else to tell you but i tried.

As I said before, I can't wait till you have a problem, and they turn to you and say "it's your fault" you are on your own.
and as i've said before, i've already had issues and been told it's on my end to sort out so your wait is long over. now i know who to thank for all those problems though. didn't realize it was you all along.

NUFF SAID - and I'm far from being angry, i'm trying to help those in difficulty ... what did you you do today ?
the amount of capital letters in your post probably wouldn't agree with that, but if you say so i'll take your word for it. i'm glad you are trying to help those who are having difficulty, but not so keen on your desire for those without difficulty to experience failure. i also didn't realize this was a competition on who did the most important things today. to answer your question i worked, came home and ate dinner with my girlfriend, spent some time on the community s here, and practiced djing. just a normal day that i imagine most people on this community can relate to.

I can't find that option, could you point out where I would find it, please?
when you submit a thread, under additional options there is a "post a poll" check box, though it doesn't allow for any poll options once i click it so i'm not sure what's going on with that. i tried in 2 different browsers so maybe a mod can chime in.
Leeanna Ayla
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.
When you say yawn that's dismissing someones opinion as boring and worthless. I understand your frustration with the problem not getting fixed, but you have to remember a large number of the members on here don't go to the NI community s so they're not familiar with your struggles. They don't know that hundreds of people may have said the same exact thing that they just said to you. Because of that when you dismiss their comment as worthless they get defensive. That combined with the way you feel about having to deal with this issue for way to long will just lead to arguing and nothing beneficial. I suspect that's why you have had some threads closed.

We will not close a thread simply because you or anybody else is being critical of NI, but we will close a thread that's nothing more that petty bickering.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
@Jack, it's what I've come to expect now .... I may as well join the masses with a ... "f*ck you all", "mine works that's all that matters", but you know, I can't do that, I was trained to solve problems, not ignore them and I hate to see users suffering because of something that could be fixed ....

Say goodbye to the "caring sharing" world and welcome to "f*ck you" attitude.

Jack I don't know you but I guess we'd get along fine ...LOL, but i'm bowing out of this now, I just can't be bothered anymore, someone else can take the reigns and I'll go back to building controllers, if someone needs help they know where to find me, I'll never refuse to help a fellow man - AS MANY ON THIS BOARD KNOW FIRST HAND., just PM me and I'll do what I can for you.

28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
wow. i was trying to help but it's pretty clear you don't see it that way. in any case, you should be happy to know that i have already run into many problems in my years of working with computers, software, and hardware with a lot of issues in the audio realm. some of those issues i received no help from anyone and i got them worked out on my own through trial and error. some of them were even on ni gear.


again, i'm not really understanding why you didn't just go back to the previous driver immediately after you updated and it stopped your setup from working. it seems like the first thing that you would have done at that point.



ok, well im not a friend of ni or their moderators, nor do i see anyone right now who is really. no one is fully defending ni in this thread, but seem to be advocating personal accountability on your part to research gear, computer specs, and issues before you spend thousands of dollars.



i just bought a windows 7 based laptop a few months ago and when i was shopping there were very few laptops i ran into that had solely usb3 ports. a few didn't have any while most had a combination of usb2 and 3. just for your reference my audio 8 works fine in my usb3 port, running the 3.0.0.625 driver alongside traktor 2.5.

i would imagine that ni did test their products in that environment as it does work for users. it's nearly impossible for them to be able to test every configuration out there between different platforms, processors, hardware, software, drivers, etc. they have to work on these things as issues arise within the community and decide how much time they can spend based upon how many users are affected. unfortunately that's business and there is a list of priorities that they follow that you are i may not agree with.

it's also very tough to deliver an accurate timeline when troubleshooting intermittent issues on various systems. did they tell you they were looking into it?



i believe the same can be said about you only in reverse. you are so blinded by your anger and frustrations that you lash out at people who are having normal experiences with ni products who are suffering very few issues, which is probably most users. no gear or software is without faults and i am fairly confident that ni wants their products to work on as many setups as humanly possible. it's just bad business sense for them not to strive for that. the reality of the situation is that it usually isn't that simple.



i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...which is fine honestly. i get it, but you are going to have a tough time convincing people who have good experiences with their products to side with you when you wish them hardware failure and call them stupid fanboys.
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.

If you don't agree with me, please refrain from commenting unless you have something truly inspiring to offer, there remains the fact that MANY users can't use the FLAGSHIP & CURRENT product on modern laptops ...that still remains a FACT.

FACT - NI haven't issued a statement regarding this problem, either in the "Off the record sections", or to the users regarding the timeline expected for a fix. The moderator statements vary widely and are often wrong, they are guilty as many are thesedays off simply repeating something they've been told, rather than testing it, and even issuing a step by step guide.

So you say your ADJ8 is working, that's excellent news, however the same cannot be said for everyone. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

As for why the things are closed, I offer TESTED, ACCURATE AND DEFINITIVE SOLUTIONS, backed with a guide and sometimes even a video, so when they publish stupid things that I know from 30 years experience I point out not only what is wrong I say WHY it's wrong and include details and where possible references.

they don't like that .... everytime I do something in life I usually have though hard about WHY something happens, I'm an engineer and I am trained to believe in this way. I would expect nothing less from my "peers".


I try my very best to HELP people in this world, maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I should join the would or fanboys and haters, forget about correct solutions and accurate information ..and say to the world ..."so **ck, should have bought a Mac". Or simply "It's doesn't work so **ck off complaining".

It's such a nice world we live in now isn't it? Help a fellow man ...nah ...f**k him and his problems, I don't have them so they don't exist.

You know it's funny, when I first started with shared information of BBS systems back in the 80's, people were proud to share information and took pride in accuracy, accountability etc.... now someone tries to help a fellow user and it's turns into a slanging match, ultimately pi**ing off that person they refuse to help any more ...

As I said before, I can't wait till you have a problem, and they turn to you and say "it's your fault" you are on your own.

NUFF SAID - and I'm far from being angry, i'm trying to help those in difficulty ... what did you you do today ?
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Just forget it, when you run into problems, i hope no one helps you.
wow. i was trying to help but it's pretty clear you don't see it that way. in any case, you should be happy to know that i have already run into many problems in my years of working with computers, software, and hardware with a lot of issues in the audio realm. some of those issues i received no help from anyone and i got them worked out on my own through trial and error. some of them were even on ni gear.

The FW fix was very specific just to fix an Issue I raised with NEC (NI didn't bother and wouldn't participate in the testing), it worked for a while, then a new driver came out, it stopped working. Rolling back to the original driver with 2.5.0 & 2.5.1 will not work, I have to roll back the entire program to 2.1.3 pre-remix decks, pre F1.
again, i'm not really understanding why you didn't just go back to the previous driver immediately after you updated and it stopped your setup from working. it seems like the first thing that you would have done at that point.

I really don't give two tosses about the comments made here by friends of NI or NI moderators, it's the multitude of users that have been shafted over this and the ridiculous "support" levels, the way they speak to so many of their customers that's the issue that needs addressing..
ok, well im not a friend of ni or their moderators, nor do i see anyone right now who is really. no one is fully defending ni in this thread, but seem to be advocating personal accountability on your part to research gear, computer specs, and issues before you spend thousands of dollars.

The point of this discussion is that this problem is NOT NEW, and it's still not fixed, 2 years USB3 has been around, and NI never thought to test it in that environment ?
i just bought a windows 7 based laptop a few months ago and when i was shopping there were very few laptops i ran into that had solely usb3 ports. a few didn't have any while most had a combination of usb2 and 3. just for your reference my audio 8 works fine in my usb3 port, running the 3.0.0.625 driver alongside traktor 2.5.

i would imagine that ni did test their products in that environment as it does work for users. it's nearly impossible for them to be able to test every configuration out there between different platforms, processors, hardware, software, drivers, etc. they have to work on these things as issues arise within the community and decide how much time they can spend based upon how many users are affected. unfortunately that's business and there is a list of priorities that they follow that you are i may not agree with.

it's also very tough to deliver an accurate timeline when troubleshooting intermittent issues on various systems. did they tell you they were looking into it?

I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.
i believe the same can be said about you only in reverse. you are so blinded by your anger and frustrations that you lash out at people who are having normal experiences with ni products who are suffering very few issues, which is probably most users. no gear or software is without faults and i am fairly confident that ni wants their products to work on as many setups as humanly possible. it's just bad business sense for them not to strive for that. the reality of the situation is that it usually isn't that simple.

As I said I don't start these thead's anymore, pretty pointless as they get closed or deleted, but I for one won't sit around, kiss a**es and declare that it's the users fault. When I see stupid "fixes" being published and users stuffing up their machines because of them, I get annoyed.

I hope that every NI fanboy develops a fault soon, and that you receive the same level of support from NI
i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...which is fine honestly. i get it, but you are going to have a tough time convincing people who have good experiences with their products to side with you when you wish them hardware failure and call them stupid fanboys.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
+1. I've seen some truly idiotic things posted trying to defend the indefensible round here and on the NI boards.
@Jack, looks like I'll be seen as a trouble causer again, when all i want is for NI to take ownership of the problem, issue a statement detailing what they are actually doing (not speculating and blaming everyone else!) and a reasonable time for a fully working fix.

I am affected by this yes, but this is not about me per say, it's all those users in the same boat who don't have my level of experience that take the word of the NI moderators as gospel and have stuffed up their laptops, those people sat around unable to connect their S4's to their newly purchased laptop. I even feel sorry for those mac users with Lion and a retina display ......

anyway I guess it will never happen, they'd have to own up about getting it wrong .. and I suppose they are afraid of someone suing them .... i hear calls of "not fit for purpose" suits ....

28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.
+1. I've seen some truly idiotic things posted trying to defend the indefensible round here and on the NI boards.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
so let me get this straight. it was working after a firmware update, then you installed a new audio 8 driver and it stopped working? if that's the case just go back to the driver version that was working. if it's not the case, i'm sorry but that is what your sentence just said, though it seems like something you would have tried already.

Just forget it, when you run into problems, i hope no one helps you.

The FW fix was very specific just to fix an Issue I raised with NEC (NI didn't bother and wouldn't participate in the testing), it worked for a while, then a new driver came out, it stopped working. Rolling back to the original driver with 2.5.0 & 2.5.1 will not work, I have to roll back the entire program to 2.1.3 pre-remix decks, pre F1.

I really don't give two tosses about the comments made here by friends of NI or NI moderators, it's the multitude of users that have been shafted over this and the ridiculous "support" levels, the way they speak to so many of their customers that's the issue that needs addressing..

@GULLUM
As for expecting a device to "last an eternity ...HOW ABOUT WORKING RIGHT NOW ? The S4 is the current FLAGSHIP product and it doesn't work on new the majority of new laptops .... but I see you have a VMS4 nd must have already met Flukes support on the VMS community . Got back to when that device was launched and the vile she poured out to users over that ...go back in their community it's all there. PS I've also been working with PC's for 30 years, and in that time I've never seen such a shoddy performance over a communication protocol ..ever !


The process of selling is already under-way, I sold one S4 last evening and as soon as I can find a bypass for scratch capability, i'll do the same for the rest. It's the ONLY reason I still keep them, because of their hardware lockdown. The X1/F1 will be swapped at the weekend for an Xone K2, then the rest is going.

I have ZERO problems with my Denons. The way it's going is forcing people like myself who have paid a fortune for NI kit to go down a route I thought i'd never have to ... cracking the DVS in order to use Scratch. I am NOT advocating piracy whatsoever, but it maybe the only solution, I've paid FULL price for my scratch systems, and I can't get to use them on my new laptops. The old laptops are not powerful enough.

I wish that the NI fanboys and moderators would stay-out of this and keep this discussion, logical, factual and hopefully we can get some real answers and TIME-SCALES about this.

The point of this discussion is that this problem is NOT NEW, and it's still not fixed, 2 years USB3 has been around, and NI never thought to test it in that environment ?


I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.

As I said I don't start these thead's anymore, pretty pointless as they get closed or deleted, but I for one won't sit around, kiss a**es and declare that it's the users fault. When I see stupid "fixes" being published and users stuffing up their machines because of them, I get annoyed.

I hope that every NI fanboy develops a fault soon, and that you receive the same level of support from NI ....
Cole Maroto
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
There was an NEC firmware update to fix an issue with the AUDIO8DJ and it worked, that was until NI changed the driver again.
so let me get this straight. it was working after a firmware update, then you installed a new audio 8 driver and it stopped working? if that's the case just go back to the driver version that was working. if it's not the case, i'm sorry but that is what your sentence just said, though it seems like something you would have tried already.
Janyce Henningson
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
Of course Nicky, you're right, everyone should simply hop in their time machine back to 2009 and purchase a USB2 only laptop from there.
I never said that did I?


Originally Posted by dj gullum
You made the mistake to buy something and expect it to be future proof for eternaty.
That was my point - you know there are problems, still go ahead and then complain when it doesn't do what they said it wouldn't do - work with USB3..
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
When you check that box and click submit thread it should tell you your thread has been posted and the next page that automatically loads will be where you fill in your poll questions. There is a timeout on filling in the poll questions so if there's quite a few that need to be typed out it's best to get them ready before you actually start the poll.

I just double checked this and it worked for me so if you're checking that box and not getting the page to add in questions let me know.
ah very cool, thanks photojojo. i didn't want to submit the test thread i was doing in case it went all the way through.
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
i'm not making a snap judgement, merely expressing my anecdotal experiences, same as is the op. mine just happens to be misaligned with yours and his. i'm also not going to go search out threads on another site that he is referring to so if you guys want people to see them as evidence then feel free to post them here and i may take the time to read them.

i tried to offer assistance to the op but got condescending and dismissive replies. i then countered with my experiences on the subject showing that there are people who aren't having these issues. the op wanted a poll on the situation and i figured there was going to be more than one option: ni is awful. i don't know how many people will find that helpful, but i assure you that your insults and sarcastic tone are clearly not helping the situation.
Leeanna Ayla
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot

when you submit a thread, under additional options there is a "post a poll" check box, though it doesn't allow for any poll options once i click it so i'm not sure what's going on with that. i tried in 2 different browsers so maybe a mod can chime in.

When you check that box and click submit thread it should tell you your thread has been posted and the next page that automatically loads will be where you fill in your poll questions. There is a timeout on filling in the poll questions so if there's quite a few that need to be typed out it's best to get them ready before you actually start the poll.

I just double checked this and it worked for me so if you're checking that box and not getting the page to add in questions let me know.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
When you say yawn that's dismissing someones opinion as boring and worthless. I understand your frustration with the problem not getting fixed, but you have to remember a large number of the members on here don't go to the NI community s so they're not familiar with your struggles. They don't know that hundreds of people may have said the same exact thing that they just said to you. Because of that when you dismiss their comment as worthless they get defensive. That combined with the way you feel about having to deal with this issue for way to long will just lead to arguing and nothing beneficial. I suspect that's why you have had some threads closed.

We will not close a thread simply because you or anybody else is being critical of NI, but we will close a thread that's nothing more that petty bickering.

don't worry I'm not pursuing it any longer, users here and on the NI community can contact me directly if they want help and are not getting the answers they need.
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.
you can read my post in here. you clearly said you resolved the issue with a firmware upgrade, then a driver update you applied broke everything again. you never answered my question about why you didn't roll it back directly after if stopped working. you didn't provide any information on what you've done as you are simply looking to have other dissatisfied people agree with you. which again is fine to me, but be prepared for people to have a wholly different experience than you and express that as it is related to the subject at hand.

If you don't agree with me, please refrain from commenting unless you have something truly inspiring to offer, there remains the fact that MANY users can't use the FLAGSHIP & CURRENT product on modern laptops ...that still remains a FACT.
i see, so you are able to start a negative thread and poll on a company then tell people to not post if they have differing opinions and experiences on the matter. i wasn't fully disagreeing with you either, but at the same time you are showing no evidence of these threads and i'm not going to go search for them. if you want to show how bad their service is with an example by all means, post up some links.

So you say your ADJ8 is working, that's excellent news, however the same cannot be said for everyone. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
it's not difficult to comprehend and i understand that, but neither of us have statistics to show how many people have this working vs not working. there's no need to be so condescending because i have a different experience than you. i feel for the people who have this and other issues and i hope they can get them sorted. unlike you i do not wish for people to be inflicted with hardware problems.

As for why the things are closed, I offer TESTED, ACCURATE AND DEFINITIVE SOLUTIONS, backed with a guide and sometimes even a video, so when they publish stupid things that I know from 30 years experience I point out not only what is wrong I say WHY it's wrong and include details and where possible references.
so then why don't you put up these guides and solutions for all to fix this issue here so people can follow it. you say your gear doesn't work, then you say you have tested and accurate solutions. which one is it?

I try my very best to HELP people in this world, maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I should join the would or fanboys and haters, forget about correct solutions and accurate information ..and say to the world ..."so **ck, should have bought a Mac". Or simply "It's doesn't work so **ck off complaining".

It's such a nice world we live in now isn't it? Help a fellow man ...nah ...f**k him and his problems, I don't have them so they don't exist.
to me you are turning a blind eye to all of the helpful posts across the internet where people volunteer their time to help others with issues. you have a problem and all of a sudden these posts no longer exist to you and all you see are the "buy a mac" comments. i see people here trying to help other users everyday and if i know how to fix something i will try and help as well. if you can't roll back your drivers to fix the issue, then sorry, i don't know what else to tell you but i tried.

As I said before, I can't wait till you have a problem, and they turn to you and say "it's your fault" you are on your own.
and as i've said before, i've already had issues and been told it's on my end to sort out so your wait is long over. now i know who to thank for all those problems though. didn't realize it was you all along.

NUFF SAID - and I'm far from being angry, i'm trying to help those in difficulty ... what did you you do today ?
the amount of capital letters in your post probably wouldn't agree with that, but if you say so i'll take your word for it. i'm glad you are trying to help those who are having difficulty, but not so keen on your desire for those without difficulty to experience failure. i also didn't realize this was a competition on who did the most important things today. to answer your question i worked, came home and ate dinner with my girlfriend, spent some time on the community s here, and practiced djing. just a normal day that i imagine most people on this community can relate to.

I can't find that option, could you point out where I would find it, please?
when you submit a thread, under additional options there is a "post a poll" check box, though it doesn't allow for any poll options once i click it so i'm not sure what's going on with that. i tried in 2 different browsers so maybe a mod can chime in.
Leeanna Ayla
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.
When you say yawn that's dismissing someones opinion as boring and worthless. I understand your frustration with the problem not getting fixed, but you have to remember a large number of the members on here don't go to the NI community s so they're not familiar with your struggles. They don't know that hundreds of people may have said the same exact thing that they just said to you. Because of that when you dismiss their comment as worthless they get defensive. That combined with the way you feel about having to deal with this issue for way to long will just lead to arguing and nothing beneficial. I suspect that's why you have had some threads closed.

We will not close a thread simply because you or anybody else is being critical of NI, but we will close a thread that's nothing more that petty bickering.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
@Jack, it's what I've come to expect now .... I may as well join the masses with a ... "f*ck you all", "mine works that's all that matters", but you know, I can't do that, I was trained to solve problems, not ignore them and I hate to see users suffering because of something that could be fixed ....

Say goodbye to the "caring sharing" world and welcome to "f*ck you" attitude.

Jack I don't know you but I guess we'd get along fine ...LOL, but i'm bowing out of this now, I just can't be bothered anymore, someone else can take the reigns and I'll go back to building controllers, if someone needs help they know where to find me, I'll never refuse to help a fellow man - AS MANY ON THIS BOARD KNOW FIRST HAND., just PM me and I'll do what I can for you.

28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...
There's one of those idiotic things I was talking about.

You can't be bothered to read what's gone on, but are fully prepared to make a snap judgement about it? Well done. Very helpful.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
wow. i was trying to help but it's pretty clear you don't see it that way. in any case, you should be happy to know that i have already run into many problems in my years of working with computers, software, and hardware with a lot of issues in the audio realm. some of those issues i received no help from anyone and i got them worked out on my own through trial and error. some of them were even on ni gear.


again, i'm not really understanding why you didn't just go back to the previous driver immediately after you updated and it stopped your setup from working. it seems like the first thing that you would have done at that point.



ok, well im not a friend of ni or their moderators, nor do i see anyone right now who is really. no one is fully defending ni in this thread, but seem to be advocating personal accountability on your part to research gear, computer specs, and issues before you spend thousands of dollars.



i just bought a windows 7 based laptop a few months ago and when i was shopping there were very few laptops i ran into that had solely usb3 ports. a few didn't have any while most had a combination of usb2 and 3. just for your reference my audio 8 works fine in my usb3 port, running the 3.0.0.625 driver alongside traktor 2.5.

i would imagine that ni did test their products in that environment as it does work for users. it's nearly impossible for them to be able to test every configuration out there between different platforms, processors, hardware, software, drivers, etc. they have to work on these things as issues arise within the community and decide how much time they can spend based upon how many users are affected. unfortunately that's business and there is a list of priorities that they follow that you are i may not agree with.

it's also very tough to deliver an accurate timeline when troubleshooting intermittent issues on various systems. did they tell you they were looking into it?



i believe the same can be said about you only in reverse. you are so blinded by your anger and frustrations that you lash out at people who are having normal experiences with ni products who are suffering very few issues, which is probably most users. no gear or software is without faults and i am fairly confident that ni wants their products to work on as many setups as humanly possible. it's just bad business sense for them not to strive for that. the reality of the situation is that it usually isn't that simple.



i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...which is fine honestly. i get it, but you are going to have a tough time convincing people who have good experiences with their products to side with you when you wish them hardware failure and call them stupid fanboys.
Yawn ................. show me one post where you have actively tried to help a user with this issue, I can show you many of mine .... and an equal amount where I have offered an explanation and it's been deleted or closed because NI don't like it.

If you don't agree with me, please refrain from commenting unless you have something truly inspiring to offer, there remains the fact that MANY users can't use the FLAGSHIP & CURRENT product on modern laptops ...that still remains a FACT.

FACT - NI haven't issued a statement regarding this problem, either in the "Off the record sections", or to the users regarding the timeline expected for a fix. The moderator statements vary widely and are often wrong, they are guilty as many are thesedays off simply repeating something they've been told, rather than testing it, and even issuing a step by step guide.

So you say your ADJ8 is working, that's excellent news, however the same cannot be said for everyone. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

As for why the things are closed, I offer TESTED, ACCURATE AND DEFINITIVE SOLUTIONS, backed with a guide and sometimes even a video, so when they publish stupid things that I know from 30 years experience I point out not only what is wrong I say WHY it's wrong and include details and where possible references.

they don't like that .... everytime I do something in life I usually have though hard about WHY something happens, I'm an engineer and I am trained to believe in this way. I would expect nothing less from my "peers".


I try my very best to HELP people in this world, maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I should join the would or fanboys and haters, forget about correct solutions and accurate information ..and say to the world ..."so **ck, should have bought a Mac". Or simply "It's doesn't work so **ck off complaining".

It's such a nice world we live in now isn't it? Help a fellow man ...nah ...f**k him and his problems, I don't have them so they don't exist.

You know it's funny, when I first started with shared information of BBS systems back in the 80's, people were proud to share information and took pride in accuracy, accountability etc.... now someone tries to help a fellow user and it's turns into a slanging match, ultimately pi**ing off that person they refuse to help any more ...

As I said before, I can't wait till you have a problem, and they turn to you and say "it's your fault" you are on your own.

NUFF SAID - and I'm far from being angry, i'm trying to help those in difficulty ... what did you you do today ?
Cole Maroto
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Just forget it, when you run into problems, i hope no one helps you.
wow. i was trying to help but it's pretty clear you don't see it that way. in any case, you should be happy to know that i have already run into many problems in my years of working with computers, software, and hardware with a lot of issues in the audio realm. some of those issues i received no help from anyone and i got them worked out on my own through trial and error. some of them were even on ni gear.

The FW fix was very specific just to fix an Issue I raised with NEC (NI didn't bother and wouldn't participate in the testing), it worked for a while, then a new driver came out, it stopped working. Rolling back to the original driver with 2.5.0 & 2.5.1 will not work, I have to roll back the entire program to 2.1.3 pre-remix decks, pre F1.
again, i'm not really understanding why you didn't just go back to the previous driver immediately after you updated and it stopped your setup from working. it seems like the first thing that you would have done at that point.

I really don't give two tosses about the comments made here by friends of NI or NI moderators, it's the multitude of users that have been shafted over this and the ridiculous "support" levels, the way they speak to so many of their customers that's the issue that needs addressing..
ok, well im not a friend of ni or their moderators, nor do i see anyone right now who is really. no one is fully defending ni in this thread, but seem to be advocating personal accountability on your part to research gear, computer specs, and issues before you spend thousands of dollars.

The point of this discussion is that this problem is NOT NEW, and it's still not fixed, 2 years USB3 has been around, and NI never thought to test it in that environment ?
i just bought a windows 7 based laptop a few months ago and when i was shopping there were very few laptops i ran into that had solely usb3 ports. a few didn't have any while most had a combination of usb2 and 3. just for your reference my audio 8 works fine in my usb3 port, running the 3.0.0.625 driver alongside traktor 2.5.

i would imagine that ni did test their products in that environment as it does work for users. it's nearly impossible for them to be able to test every configuration out there between different platforms, processors, hardware, software, drivers, etc. they have to work on these things as issues arise within the community and decide how much time they can spend based upon how many users are affected. unfortunately that's business and there is a list of priorities that they follow that you are i may not agree with.

it's also very tough to deliver an accurate timeline when troubleshooting intermittent issues on various systems. did they tell you they were looking into it?

I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.
i believe the same can be said about you only in reverse. you are so blinded by your anger and frustrations that you lash out at people who are having normal experiences with ni products who are suffering very few issues, which is probably most users. no gear or software is without faults and i am fairly confident that ni wants their products to work on as many setups as humanly possible. it's just bad business sense for them not to strive for that. the reality of the situation is that it usually isn't that simple.

As I said I don't start these thead's anymore, pretty pointless as they get closed or deleted, but I for one won't sit around, kiss a**es and declare that it's the users fault. When I see stupid "fixes" being published and users stuffing up their machines because of them, I get annoyed.

I hope that every NI fanboy develops a fault soon, and that you receive the same level of support from NI
i'm not going to read through pages of the ni community s to see a moderator being mean to you, or declare that it's your fault, or these "fixes" you are talking about, but i can see why they get closed or deleted from this thread. you aren't really looking for help with your issues. you are looking to create negativity towards a company you seemingly hate due to your experiences with them...which is fine honestly. i get it, but you are going to have a tough time convincing people who have good experiences with their products to side with you when you wish them hardware failure and call them stupid fanboys.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
+1. I've seen some truly idiotic things posted trying to defend the indefensible round here and on the NI boards.
@Jack, looks like I'll be seen as a trouble causer again, when all i want is for NI to take ownership of the problem, issue a statement detailing what they are actually doing (not speculating and blaming everyone else!) and a reasonable time for a fully working fix.

I am affected by this yes, but this is not about me per say, it's all those users in the same boat who don't have my level of experience that take the word of the NI moderators as gospel and have stuffed up their laptops, those people sat around unable to connect their S4's to their newly purchased laptop. I even feel sorry for those mac users with Lion and a retina display ......

anyway I guess it will never happen, they'd have to own up about getting it wrong .. and I suppose they are afraid of someone suing them .... i hear calls of "not fit for purpose" suits ....

28.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.
+1. I've seen some truly idiotic things posted trying to defend the indefensible round here and on the NI boards.
Faustino Stringfellow
28.09.2012
Originally Posted by squidot
so let me get this straight. it was working after a firmware update, then you installed a new audio 8 driver and it stopped working? if that's the case just go back to the driver version that was working. if it's not the case, i'm sorry but that is what your sentence just said, though it seems like something you would have tried already.

Just forget it, when you run into problems, i hope no one helps you.

The FW fix was very specific just to fix an Issue I raised with NEC (NI didn't bother and wouldn't participate in the testing), it worked for a while, then a new driver came out, it stopped working. Rolling back to the original driver with 2.5.0 & 2.5.1 will not work, I have to roll back the entire program to 2.1.3 pre-remix decks, pre F1.

I really don't give two tosses about the comments made here by friends of NI or NI moderators, it's the multitude of users that have been shafted over this and the ridiculous "support" levels, the way they speak to so many of their customers that's the issue that needs addressing..

@GULLUM
As for expecting a device to "last an eternity ...HOW ABOUT WORKING RIGHT NOW ? The S4 is the current FLAGSHIP product and it doesn't work on new the majority of new laptops .... but I see you have a VMS4 nd must have already met Flukes support on the VMS community . Got back to when that device was launched and the vile she poured out to users over that ...go back in their community it's all there. PS I've also been working with PC's for 30 years, and in that time I've never seen such a shoddy performance over a communication protocol ..ever !


The process of selling is already under-way, I sold one S4 last evening and as soon as I can find a bypass for scratch capability, i'll do the same for the rest. It's the ONLY reason I still keep them, because of their hardware lockdown. The X1/F1 will be swapped at the weekend for an Xone K2, then the rest is going.

I have ZERO problems with my Denons. The way it's going is forcing people like myself who have paid a fortune for NI kit to go down a route I thought i'd never have to ... cracking the DVS in order to use Scratch. I am NOT advocating piracy whatsoever, but it maybe the only solution, I've paid FULL price for my scratch systems, and I can't get to use them on my new laptops. The old laptops are not powerful enough.

I wish that the NI fanboys and moderators would stay-out of this and keep this discussion, logical, factual and hopefully we can get some real answers and TIME-SCALES about this.

The point of this discussion is that this problem is NOT NEW, and it's still not fixed, 2 years USB3 has been around, and NI never thought to test it in that environment ?


I just don't get some people, so blinded by stupid loyalty, they can't see that many users are unable to use these products properly due to bad coding/design and they need it resolving.

As I said I don't start these thead's anymore, pretty pointless as they get closed or deleted, but I for one won't sit around, kiss a**es and declare that it's the users fault. When I see stupid "fixes" being published and users stuffing up their machines because of them, I get annoyed.

I hope that every NI fanboy develops a fault soon, and that you receive the same level of support from NI ....
Cole Maroto
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
There was an NEC firmware update to fix an issue with the AUDIO8DJ and it worked, that was until NI changed the driver again.
so let me get this straight. it was working after a firmware update, then you installed a new audio 8 driver and it stopped working? if that's the case just go back to the driver version that was working. if it's not the case, i'm sorry but that is what your sentence just said, though it seems like something you would have tried already.
Janyce Henningson
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
Of course Nicky, you're right, everyone should simply hop in their time machine back to 2009 and purchase a USB2 only laptop from there.
I never said that did I?


Originally Posted by dj gullum
You made the mistake to buy something and expect it to be future proof for eternaty.
That was my point - you know there are problems, still go ahead and then complain when it doesn't do what they said it wouldn't do - work with USB3..
Ashanti Andreacchio
27.09.2012		There is nothing new to old hardware beeing incompatable with new hardware. During my almost 30 years working with computers I have colected quite a few cards/devices over time that won't work on my next computer. I bought a Ensoniq Paris system that costed me almost $7k and only oficcialy worked on Windows 98. You bought somethings that were all compatable to with computers on the marked at that given time. I was not NI that made the desission to drop some standars from USB3 F1 X1 are by no means affected the only send midi/hid no audio. I'm sure NI had their reasons to choose asynchronous streaming, but their choice has backfired on them.
You made the mistake to buy something and expect it to be future proof for eternaty. and after reading some of your post here and on NI community I don't get it why you don't get a mac or sell all devices, get something else insted you would spend a lot more time doing something you like to do, insted of wasting 18 months on crying about whats not working.
Sorry but your boring a hell.
Faustino Stringfellow
27.09.2012		Nicky, I've been on the back of this for over 18 month, if there's anyone with the right information it's me. I've been working with Dell and NEC for the last 12 months on this exact issue.

There was an NEC firmware update to fix an issue with the AUDIO8DJ and it worked, that was until NI changed the driver again. The USB3 ports on laptops now are about as stable as they are going to get, not an Intel problem as you suggested. The laptops with separate USB3 chips as opposed to those with it in the chipset were initially problematic, but everything that's doable has been done by the chipset manufacturers.

This issue really is that anything that has enough power to tun the current version of Traktor, and has a little more to give as the program advances and requires more power, these days comes with USB3 !

It's not a new thing as I said at the start, I sent all the diagnostics and details over to NI many moons ago.

The Denon's works fine, as do Rane and I guess many more companies are fine too.

FYI. Windows 8 does not cause the BSOD, it has it own issue's though such as the application not closing and the F1 having a weird display on the screen next to the browse - buttons function though.

I'm about to upgrade my main laptop, and use this one for backup, but I am faced with a big problem, all the new platforms I am looking at are USB3 only. I'm lucky this has a eSATA/USB combo port, otherwise I have problems. The issue is with all new laptop users, what are they supposed to do ?

Does anyone know if serato SL /twich works in USB3?

but back to the point in hand, NI are not handling this issue well, the information regarding fixes etc. has been in many cases just stupid ! Freshfluke for example telling users of Windows machines to try to do what they did with the mac's ...the result many inexperienced users stuffing up there usb ports. a kext works differently to a windows driver.

As soon as someone asks for an update they are shot down, usually in quite an abrupt, even rude manner.

Windwos 8 is released to the public at the end of October and all new machines will be equipped with it. or given an upgrade voucher, the program needs to be fixed by then, or I can imagine a hell-storm braking out.

The choice as it stands with new laptop buyers.

Windows 7 - no USB3 ports
Windows 8 - issues with closing, F1 and screen response time (it takes a few seconds to go full screen etc.)

Something definite from NI needs to be released concerning the roadmap for their products regarding this issue, and to stop blaming customers.

27.09.2012
Originally Posted by Nicky H
My point is if you know there's a problem and you still get a laptop that's only USB3, who really is to blame?
Of course Nicky, you're right, everyone should simply hop in their time machine back to 2009 and purchase a USB2 only laptop from there.



Originally Posted by Nicky H
It's an Apple and Intel problem as far as I am aware, which makes the moaning even more pathetic.

It's nothing to do with the Apple, or Intel really. The problem (afaik) is that certain audio manufacturers made use of asynchronous streaming, something that has now been removed from the USB standard, hence soundcards that make use of this don't work in USB 3 ports.

I don't believe Rane soundcards are affected by this so they obviously use a different method. It would be nice to get a press release from NI about this though, rather than the standard NI 'blame everything on anyone except us' modus operandi.
Janyce Henningson
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
That's a silly thing to say, it's pretty much impossible not to buy a USB3 laptop these days.
My point is if you know there's a problem and you still get a laptop that's only USB3, who really is to blame?

Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
In NI's defence though it's not just them affected by this issue.
It's an Apple and Intel problem as far as I am aware, which makes the moaning even more pathetic.

Faustino Stringfellow
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
Every member has the ability to start a poll when starting a thread. You may need to click go advanced to see the option.
I can't find that option, could you point out where I would find it, please?

27.09.2012
Originally Posted by Nicky H
They have a point though.
That's a silly thing to say, it's pretty much impossible not to buy a USB3 laptop these days.



In NI's defence though it's not just them affected by this issue.

As regards Freshfluke I believe she does more damage to NI's reputation with users than all the dodgy Traktor releases combined. She's an arsehole.
Janyce Henningson
27.09.2012
Originally Posted by JSM
Now it seems their statement is "your own stupid fault for buying a new USB3 laptop, you should check the spec's"
They have a point though.
Erich Vallabhaneni
27.09.2012		For The Republic!!! Hazzzaaaaa!!!!
Leeanna Ayla
27.09.2012		Every member has the ability to start a poll when starting a thread. You may need to click go advanced to see the option.

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