Getting The Best Sound Out of Your Traktor

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Getting The Best Sound Out of Your Traktor
Posted on: 17.11.2011 by Darryl Landaiche
hey guys, so recently i was watching this interview with Tony Andrews, the Owner of Funktion One speakers, probably the best live systems in the world. look em up if you don't know, anyway i was super stoked to see him using the echo audiofire sound card, as i kno that is a card Ean uses and highly recommends (would probly have one if i wasnt tsp user), and he made it pretty clear that is the best sound card there is haha.

But he also reveled some info i believe alot of people would be suprised to hear, mentioning how NI had asked them to review there sound card, as the legend of a company they are regarding high sound quality, and they were suprised to find not very good results, but only when in use with traktor, but when the soundcards were used with Fubar2000, the sound quality was very close to on par with the echo, but slightly less.

Then he mentioned how NI called them back 2 weeks later telling them how to fix it, step one, classic eq, the other eq settings add layers of processing and change the dynamics resulting in alot lower quality sound(atleast if your trying to retain full quality of a properly mastered dynamic 320,wav,flac ect.), second step, turn of auto limiter inside traktor.

also through a google search i found this article wich pretty much covers just that, but doesnt mention the limiter, and does mention the key lock (wich would make sense aswell)
http://www.native-instruments.com/kn...+Sound+Quality

if anyone wants to see the video of Tony Andrews talking about it heres the link, starts talking about it right at 39 mins

[ame="http://vimeo.com/31191130"]Lecture: Tony Andrews of Funktion One (Madrid 2011) on Vimeo[/ame]

ill also add i called NI to ask what the difference in the MK2 timecode vinyl was today, so i decided to mention that aswell and see if they recognized the issue and if they planned on adressing it at all, the employee immediately got deffesnsive and said hes not aloud to talk about that subject and he knows nothing about it... lol w/e.. just curious if im the only one a little bugged by this, lol, i never would have known if my buddy didnt show me this vid
Mimi Mahaffee
05.05.2013
Originally Posted by Invoke
same here, dont understand some people who freak out just because of the file. I understand why mp3 can have a bad rap but as long as your not playing transcodes and you stick to 320 then you should be ok.

sure with the right gear and at the appropriate sound level I'm sure some people can tell the diff between lossy and lossless, but if your at a club or festival your ears are most likely getting damaged like every second that your there.
Sad thing that audioquality is such a low priority in most clubs, it's hard and in some occassions frankly impossible to tune a system in good at some clubs but then there should not be a club there IMO.

With that in mind I do play 320kbps mp3 sometimes because I know it doesnt matter, the system sucks anyway, however never lower than 320kbps.

At my home HiFi I play 80% lossless (sometimes spotify is on for inspiration). I can tell the difference on some certain music, but not everything. My DAC handles mp3 pretty nicely so they definately sound good enough to be enjoyable, but why not get the best possible today, when space isnt really an issue?

All my CDs i ripped in lossless but when i purchase music on the net sometimes i go for mp3 320.
Worth to mention im kind of audiophile guy and to truly tell the difference between mp3/lossless audio you need
1. quite good accoustics in room
2. Stereo setup - two speakers, nothing more, nothing less -
3. high end amp, high end dac, good cables and ofcourse proper speakers. (amp matters more than you ever could imagine).
4. sit in a stereotriangle at the right distances which should be measured up according to how long throwrange your speaker has and distance between speakers. Some speakers need to be toed in to the listening position, some does not.
Audria Pechman
04.05.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
What EQ type are you using? Have you turned off autogain, and is the Master output at 0.0? Keylock off and pitch at 0%?
classic EQ, auto gain on, master output 0.0, keylock off and pitch at 0 - When I posted

When I turn off auto gain the difference becomes smaller but there is still a difference.

I did download the deckadance 2 demo and it was better then Traktor 2 out of the gate but still not as good as VLC.

I would not be surprised if the difference is caused by VLC and similar apps being focused on playing files just as they are and DJ apps focusing on having the ability to change tempo.

I should point out that these differences are small and you would not here them unless you have good headphones on or a really nice monitoring setup with a high end audio card.
Mariko Oppenhuizen
15.08.2012
Originally Posted by Dj.You.S.Bee
also through a google search i found this article wich pretty much covers just that, but doesnt mention the limiter, and does mention the key lock (wich would make sense aswell)
http://www.native-instruments.com/kn...+Sound+Quality
So this part was very informative. I never knew until now that even when using external mix mode the EQ and Filter section affects the sound.

Thanks for the link.
Peggy Gabrielson
27.11.2011
Originally Posted by Lysgaard
Great thread!
One argument that I find missing in the "does good sound matter to drunk people anyways"-debate, is this:
On a really good soundsystem, where everything is super clear, you can play crazy loud, without destroying people's ears. The drunken pundits can talk normally, almost without raising their voice at all to each other, but still the music is super loud.
In a few bars I've played, with really shitty soundsystems, you have to scream to be heard when talking even with the sound system turned quite low, the result being more
Noise than music. It's almost something that must be seen/heard to believe, really.
If any of you have been to Berghain, you know what I'm talking about.
I've noticed this too. When I go to shitty mainstream bars or clubs the music is usually cranked loud as hell and you have to yell at people standing right next to you to be heard. When I go to proper dance parties where they put a bit of effort into sound, it is still really loud, but it doesn't hurt my ears and I can chat to people pretty easily.

Accordingly I HATE going to shitty mainstream bars or clubs!
Lina Rawie
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by 3IJ
sad but true.

test yourself....
http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/...-hearing-test/
I turn 42 in a few weeks, but I can hear all of the files on that page, including the 22 KHz one.

I have to crank up my headphones to hear the 22 KHz file, but I can hear the rest fine.
Latoria Kavulich
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by rgtb
so, progressive trance is ~90bpm?
and the rest
Inez Marcinik
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by mostapha
It's amazing how much bullshit you get out of people who are really good at audio. It's like they don't know they've been being sold snake oil all their lives and actually believe what they say.

There's a very, very highly respected Mastering Engineer out there who had a word clock custom built based off Cesium decay because vibrating crystals weren't precise enough and he thought he could still hear jitter. Since most people don't know what that is
Darryl Landaiche
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by Nicky H
You know you can hear very little above 16- 17KHz if you are not:

A: a dog
B: a 2 year old
the human hearing curve changes drastically passed 100db, we accually are able to pick them up but our ears have there own frequency curve, the volume needs to be really loud and on speakers that also can play those frequencies in relative loudness to the rest of the sounds (completelty flat eq is always best for a properly mastered track to be enjoyed how it was suppost to be), its unfortunate so many cheap speakers have to glamorize certain frequencies just to sound decent because they are so cheaply made.

but i know that any lossless that reaches 22khz instead of 20 with a properly encoded mp3, when using my synheiser hd25, wich accually have a range to 22, everything sounds noticeably better and the highs are alot more clear, dynamic music is always better if you have the speakers to properly hear it, but as i said earlier, this is only noticeable at really high volume's, for headphones 1/4 jack is almost nessesarry unless you have a really loud amp on your soundcard like me
Rosina Stanford
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by sebastiannz
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
There is a huge difference however, your loudspeakers need to be large enough and posses good quality to hear the difference.

Bear in mind even an mp3 @ 320 kilobytes per second uses compression to consolidate the size of the file. Compression will always hamper the dynamics of an audio track. This is the reason many prefer .wav (no compression added) files to mp3s.
Peggy Gabrielson
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by Dj.You.S.Bee
3 main notable differences about mp3 vs WAV, or any other lossless, 320 mp3 looses about 1.3% volume, aswell as adding small amounts of artifacts (very bad unwanted noises but usually unhearable unless listening at 120+db), other then that all wavs have vs properly encoded mp3's is an extra 2khz of dynamic range, meaning on speakers that go passed 20khz and upto 22 or more will be able to utilize the wav, where the mp3 will be more ideal on the average speaker that can't pass 20khz, here is the differences in 2 beatport releases, 1 320 MP3, 1 AIFF



so if the track itself doesn't use 20khz to 22khz range then there won't be any difference right? sorry i know almost nothing about production...
Darryl Landaiche
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by sebastiannz
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
3 main notable differences about mp3 vs WAV, or any other lossless, 320 mp3 looses about 1.3% volume, aswell as adding small amounts of artifacts (very bad unwanted noises but usually unhearable unless listening at 120+db), other then that all wavs have vs properly encoded mp3's is an extra 2khz of dynamic range, meaning on speakers that go passed 20khz and upto 22 or more will be able to utilize the wav, where the mp3 will be more ideal on the average speaker that can't pass 20khz, here is the differences in 2 beatport releases, 1 320 MP3, 1 AIFF



Peggy Gabrielson
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by martinlird
I only ever use Funktion One. This is because the company I rig for uses Funktion One and we get 50% off hire.
I was using it on saturday evening and play 320 mp3's and it sounded perfectly fine. We were using 2 x 118's and 2 x res4's, and it sounded sweet.

We set up a evening club in our town (The Vue) and used 4 x 218's and 6 x Res 4's on each side, and some smart arse decided to play some 128 Mp3's. He thought the speakers we to quiet and had the mixer bouncing off the red.

As you can imagine, he was kicked off within 10minutes and the next lad went on and played an extra 90minutes with no complaints.

But as for the difference between .WAV and .Mp3, on a Funktion One set up like we use for standard 18th's 21st's etc, 320 Mp3s are perfectly fine. But as soon as you get on the big set ups (i.e. 4 218's etc) you start to notice a slight difference.

I still use 320's though

(Btw using a Audio-2...I don't believe the hype over the Audiofire)
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
Mimi Mahaffee
05.05.2013
Originally Posted by Invoke
same here, dont understand some people who freak out just because of the file. I understand why mp3 can have a bad rap but as long as your not playing transcodes and you stick to 320 then you should be ok.

sure with the right gear and at the appropriate sound level I'm sure some people can tell the diff between lossy and lossless, but if your at a club or festival your ears are most likely getting damaged like every second that your there.
Sad thing that audioquality is such a low priority in most clubs, it's hard and in some occassions frankly impossible to tune a system in good at some clubs but then there should not be a club there IMO.

With that in mind I do play 320kbps mp3 sometimes because I know it doesnt matter, the system sucks anyway, however never lower than 320kbps.

At my home HiFi I play 80% lossless (sometimes spotify is on for inspiration). I can tell the difference on some certain music, but not everything. My DAC handles mp3 pretty nicely so they definately sound good enough to be enjoyable, but why not get the best possible today, when space isnt really an issue?

All my CDs i ripped in lossless but when i purchase music on the net sometimes i go for mp3 320.
Worth to mention im kind of audiophile guy and to truly tell the difference between mp3/lossless audio you need
1. quite good accoustics in room
2. Stereo setup - two speakers, nothing more, nothing less -
3. high end amp, high end dac, good cables and ofcourse proper speakers. (amp matters more than you ever could imagine).
4. sit in a stereotriangle at the right distances which should be measured up according to how long throwrange your speaker has and distance between speakers. Some speakers need to be toed in to the listening position, some does not.
Audria Pechman
04.05.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
What EQ type are you using? Have you turned off autogain, and is the Master output at 0.0? Keylock off and pitch at 0%?
classic EQ, auto gain on, master output 0.0, keylock off and pitch at 0 - When I posted

When I turn off auto gain the difference becomes smaller but there is still a difference.

I did download the deckadance 2 demo and it was better then Traktor 2 out of the gate but still not as good as VLC.

I would not be surprised if the difference is caused by VLC and similar apps being focused on playing files just as they are and DJ apps focusing on having the ability to change tempo.

I should point out that these differences are small and you would not here them unless you have good headphones on or a really nice monitoring setup with a high end audio card.
Alphonso Deitchman
04.05.2013		What EQ type are you using? Have you turned off autogain, and is the Master output at 0.0? Keylock off and pitch at 0%?
Audria Pechman
04.05.2013		So I have recently upgraded my audio output gear from pretty good to sick. I can definitely hear a difference in SQ between VLC/Foobar and traktor. You can hear a small shift in the sound stage (it becomes flatter and less defined) and a decrease in clarity. Turning off the limiter helped but I am surprised that any piece of profesional sound software would degrade the sound in any way. BTW, This is with 0 EQ, effects, etc.
Mariko Oppenhuizen
15.08.2012
Originally Posted by Dj.You.S.Bee
also through a google search i found this article wich pretty much covers just that, but doesnt mention the limiter, and does mention the key lock (wich would make sense aswell)
http://www.native-instruments.com/kn...+Sound+Quality
So this part was very informative. I never knew until now that even when using external mix mode the EQ and Filter section affects the sound.

Thanks for the link.
Darren Teboe
12.08.2012		Duplicate thread... mods should lock it.
Peggy Gabrielson
27.11.2011
Originally Posted by Lysgaard
Great thread!
One argument that I find missing in the "does good sound matter to drunk people anyways"-debate, is this:
On a really good soundsystem, where everything is super clear, you can play crazy loud, without destroying people's ears. The drunken pundits can talk normally, almost without raising their voice at all to each other, but still the music is super loud.
In a few bars I've played, with really shitty soundsystems, you have to scream to be heard when talking even with the sound system turned quite low, the result being more
Noise than music. It's almost something that must be seen/heard to believe, really.
If any of you have been to Berghain, you know what I'm talking about.
I've noticed this too. When I go to shitty mainstream bars or clubs the music is usually cranked loud as hell and you have to yell at people standing right next to you to be heard. When I go to proper dance parties where they put a bit of effort into sound, it is still really loud, but it doesn't hurt my ears and I can chat to people pretty easily.

Accordingly I HATE going to shitty mainstream bars or clubs!
Sammie Filetti
27.11.2011		Great thread!
One argument that I find missing in the "does good sound matter to drunk people anyways"-debate, is this:
On a really good soundsystem, where everything is super clear, you can play crazy loud, without destroying people's ears. The drunken pundits can talk normally, almost without raising their voice at all to each other, but still the music is super loud.
In a few bars I've played, with really shitty soundsystems, you have to scream to be heard when talking even with the sound system turned quite low, the result being more
Noise than music. It's almost something that must be seen/heard to believe, really.
If any of you have been to Berghain, you know what I'm talking about.
France Evoniuk
27.11.2011		I can hear up to 20khz on that, maybe because one of my ears is badly blocked.
Lina Rawie
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by 3IJ
sad but true.

test yourself....
http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/...-hearing-test/
I turn 42 in a few weeks, but I can hear all of the files on that page, including the 22 KHz one.

I have to crank up my headphones to hear the 22 KHz file, but I can hear the rest fine.
Latoria Kavulich
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by rgtb
so, progressive trance is ~90bpm?
and the rest
Inez Marcinik
26.11.2011
Originally Posted by mostapha
It's amazing how much bullshit you get out of people who are really good at audio. It's like they don't know they've been being sold snake oil all their lives and actually believe what they say.

There's a very, very highly respected Mastering Engineer out there who had a word clock custom built based off Cesium decay because vibrating crystals weren't precise enough and he thought he could still hear jitter. Since most people don't know what that is
Darryl Landaiche
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by Nicky H
You know you can hear very little above 16- 17KHz if you are not:

A: a dog
B: a 2 year old
the human hearing curve changes drastically passed 100db, we accually are able to pick them up but our ears have there own frequency curve, the volume needs to be really loud and on speakers that also can play those frequencies in relative loudness to the rest of the sounds (completelty flat eq is always best for a properly mastered track to be enjoyed how it was suppost to be), its unfortunate so many cheap speakers have to glamorize certain frequencies just to sound decent because they are so cheaply made.

but i know that any lossless that reaches 22khz instead of 20 with a properly encoded mp3, when using my synheiser hd25, wich accually have a range to 22, everything sounds noticeably better and the highs are alot more clear, dynamic music is always better if you have the speakers to properly hear it, but as i said earlier, this is only noticeable at really high volume's, for headphones 1/4 jack is almost nessesarry unless you have a really loud amp on your soundcard like me
Rosina Stanford
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by sebastiannz
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
There is a huge difference however, your loudspeakers need to be large enough and posses good quality to hear the difference.

Bear in mind even an mp3 @ 320 kilobytes per second uses compression to consolidate the size of the file. Compression will always hamper the dynamics of an audio track. This is the reason many prefer .wav (no compression added) files to mp3s.
Philip Degener
25.11.2011		sad but true.

test yourself....
http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/...-hearing-test/
Janyce Henningson
25.11.2011		You know you can hear very little above 16- 17KHz if you are not:

A: a dog
B: a 2 year old
Peggy Gabrielson
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by Dj.You.S.Bee
3 main notable differences about mp3 vs WAV, or any other lossless, 320 mp3 looses about 1.3% volume, aswell as adding small amounts of artifacts (very bad unwanted noises but usually unhearable unless listening at 120+db), other then that all wavs have vs properly encoded mp3's is an extra 2khz of dynamic range, meaning on speakers that go passed 20khz and upto 22 or more will be able to utilize the wav, where the mp3 will be more ideal on the average speaker that can't pass 20khz, here is the differences in 2 beatport releases, 1 320 MP3, 1 AIFF



so if the track itself doesn't use 20khz to 22khz range then there won't be any difference right? sorry i know almost nothing about production...
Darryl Landaiche
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by sebastiannz
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
3 main notable differences about mp3 vs WAV, or any other lossless, 320 mp3 looses about 1.3% volume, aswell as adding small amounts of artifacts (very bad unwanted noises but usually unhearable unless listening at 120+db), other then that all wavs have vs properly encoded mp3's is an extra 2khz of dynamic range, meaning on speakers that go passed 20khz and upto 22 or more will be able to utilize the wav, where the mp3 will be more ideal on the average speaker that can't pass 20khz, here is the differences in 2 beatport releases, 1 320 MP3, 1 AIFF



Peggy Gabrielson
25.11.2011
Originally Posted by martinlird
I only ever use Funktion One. This is because the company I rig for uses Funktion One and we get 50% off hire.
I was using it on saturday evening and play 320 mp3's and it sounded perfectly fine. We were using 2 x 118's and 2 x res4's, and it sounded sweet.

We set up a evening club in our town (The Vue) and used 4 x 218's and 6 x Res 4's on each side, and some smart arse decided to play some 128 Mp3's. He thought the speakers we to quiet and had the mixer bouncing off the red.

As you can imagine, he was kicked off within 10minutes and the next lad went on and played an extra 90minutes with no complaints.

But as for the difference between .WAV and .Mp3, on a Funktion One set up like we use for standard 18th's 21st's etc, 320 Mp3s are perfectly fine. But as soon as you get on the big set ups (i.e. 4 218's etc) you start to notice a slight difference.

I still use 320's though

(Btw using a Audio-2...I don't believe the hype over the Audiofire)
So what is the difference between wav's and 320's on a big system? Did you try comparing vinyl too? Mates tell me vinyl sounds better on big sound systems but I've never been able to test the difference.
Jayna Hallworth
25.11.2011		How can Audiofire be the best? What about Apogee Duet 2 or many others in that price range?
Darryl Landaiche
24.11.2011
Originally Posted by D-Kem
Tested Audio 8 and Echofire in a converted and dead garage, both sides of room covered by two long shelves of vinyl (approx 10000).
Cards plugged straight into power amp and directly to monitors.
Subjectively the sound from the Echofire was better to my ears.

Will post some vinyl rip comparisons when i get time in a different thread. Slightly off track, sorry guys.
this is what i love to hear, loving all the awesome responses in this thread keep it up guys!
Lauretta Ehrhorn
24.11.2011		Tested Audio 8 and Echofire in a converted and dead garage, both sides of room covered by two long shelves of vinyl (approx 10000).
Cards plugged straight into power amp and directly to monitors.
Subjectively the sound from the Echofire was better to my ears.

Will post some vinyl rip comparisons when i get time in a different thread. Slightly off track, sorry guys.
Dorie Scelzo
21.11.2011
Originally Posted by space monkey
According to him Funktion1 is the only system audible in the vacuum of space
It's amazing how much bullshit you get out of people who are really good at audio. It's like they don't know they've been being sold snake oil all their lives and actually believe what they say.

There's a very, very highly respected Mastering Engineer out there who had a word clock custom built based off Cesium decay because vibrating crystals weren't precise enough and he thought he could still hear jitter. Since most people don't know what that is
Chassidy Popwell
21.11.2011		I only ever use Funktion One. This is because the company I rig for uses Funktion One and we get 50% off hire.
I was using it on saturday evening and play 320 mp3's and it sounded perfectly fine. We were using 2 x 118's and 2 x res4's, and it sounded sweet.

We set up a evening club in our town (The Vue) and used 4 x 218's and 6 x Res 4's on each side, and some smart arse decided to play some 128 Mp3's. He thought the speakers we to quiet and had the mixer bouncing off the red.

As you can imagine, he was kicked off within 10minutes and the next lad went on and played an extra 90minutes with no complaints.

But as for the difference between .WAV and .Mp3, on a Funktion One set up like we use for standard 18th's 21st's etc, 320 Mp3s are perfectly fine. But as soon as you get on the big set ups (i.e. 4 218's etc) you start to notice a slight difference.

I still use 320's though

(Btw using a Audio-2...I don't believe the hype over the Audiofire)
Lin Danek
21.11.2011		@ Sarasin & Jes - thanks guys - I'm realising more & more how having a dedicated machine with massive specs (500G HD, 8G RAM, i5 variable speed processor, stripped W7, iTunes & Traktor ONLY) spoils me. CPU usage is never a consideration for me - maybe it should be. Going to revisit all my settings. I was astounded as to how 'crisp' my sound was with keylock.
Lilliana Perris
21.11.2011
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Is a funktion one system really that great even? I feel like it has a lot more to do with the room and I have heard some good systems and some really overrated systems. I believe there is a funktion one at the vegabond in miami I'm going to have to check out.
Funktion One is damn good...no doubt!

But I prefer TurboSound and Opus.
Ngan Ernestine
21.11.2011
Originally Posted by Jester.NZ
6% is pretty much the max you can change tempo without changing the key too much. plus that gives me 5bpm either way when playing progressive trance
so, progressive trance is ~90bpm?
Lilliana Perris
21.11.2011
Originally Posted by JonathanBlake
Because of CPU demand, or the affect on harmonics? Did a sound-check before a gig this weekend with keylock ON (S4 into club mixer via RCA routed through 4 Wharfies ) - it sounded GOOD. Played with keylock on - lots of compliments from the CDJers on the sound quality
My tests found that if you start straining the computer and are using tracks with large differences in BPM (and trying to match them) keylock will degrade the sound of the track. The actual sound coming from the speakers might be fine, but the track will lose its polish.

This is what I found anyways.

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