New Mac Pro

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New Mac Pro
Posted on: 10.06.2013 by Carlee Pickard
I know there's a thread on the Apple Keynote thing, but this thread is dedicated only to the discussion of the new Mac Pro. I'm definitely interested and am seriously believeing about picking one up. I'd love to hear everyones thoughts on it.

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Yes, I am aware that the same GPU core is used in the consumer and professional cards. But certain features are disabled in addition to the driver differences on the consumer models.

CUDA now completely sucks on the GeForce 600 series for example.
CUDA sucks on the last gen because kepler wasn't designed with raw power in mind as fermi was.
The 580 still beats the 680 in, say, bitcoin mining.
The 680 beats the 580 in games because of optimization.

That is what i'm telling you. If you target something like this at pros that may not need dual VGAs, and you equip it with standard, money-wasting dual VGAs, you're either dumb or you don't care about your userbase at all.

If everything was optimized to make use of the raw power the gpus have, i'd shut up. But like this? no.
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by Polygon
Crossfire*

On another note,
I LOVE the typhoons, my 2nd rig has 5 of them and it's silent as a mosquito
Yeah I been stuck with Nvidia befoer this for so long.. I get those two mixed up lol
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Yes, I am aware that the same GPU core is used in the consumer and professional cards. But certain features are disabled in addition to the driver differences on the consumer models.

CUDA now completely sucks on the GeForce 600 series for example.
Again Mac Pros do not come stock with QuadroFX cards, and never have
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Likewise, there's absolutely no reason to buy a Mac Pro if you want a gaming machine.
I guess theres no reason to buy a PC for gaming too then? I mean.. ThE new mac Pro uses Dual ATI Cards.... You are gonna have to upgrade to Quadros and Aftermarket Quadros if you want to video editing/rendering efficently anyways.. Tack on another 2.5 k there, Oh what you dont need those to produce audio? Silly me
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
Yes, I am aware that the same GPU core is used in the consumer and professional cards. But certain features are disabled in addition to the driver differences on the consumer models.

CUDA now completely sucks on the GeForce 600 series for example.
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
1200 certainly is a resolution, I'm using it right now. Connected to the computer I built from scratch..

7970s are extremely cheap compared to the FirePros that will be used in the Pro. I really don't care that much about the machine, but it is unfair to compare it to a gaming rig you built at home.
Do you know what the difference between pro and consumer GFX cards is?
Drivers, and ecc memory.

That.
You can accelerate rendering programs thru cuda just as well on geforces as you can on quadros.

If you don't have optimization, price is a meaningless figure.
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by balakoth



"Cheap" 6 GB total SLI setup..
Crossfire*

On another note,
I LOVE the typhoons, my 2nd rig has 5 of them and it's silent as a mosquito
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
1200 certainly is a resolution, I'm using it right now. Connected to the computer I built from scratch..

7970s are extremely cheap compared to the FirePros that will be used in the Pro. I really don't care that much about the machine, but it is unfair to compare it to a gaming rig you built at home.
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by Polygon
Sorry to say this but, why do you fuck with everyone so much?

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that when it comes to opencl/opengl you have the same performance from "cheap" consumer oriented and pro oriented cards, if they share the same chip of course.

Do you even know what ECC means? Please enlighten me without changing tabs and switching over to wikipedia to check what ecc memory is and where it is most crucial (hint: definitely not in a prosumer ecosystem towards which the mac pro is oriented)

It's also clear from his post that,for 7.5k and that specs he cited, he must have used intel processors and not those bullcrap amd bulldozer chips (that by the way don't support dual cpu configs) (unless you're talking about amd's opteron offerings, that also suck balls.

and to finish it off, 26inch at 1080p is "blatantly low end"?
What about this 1200p measly 24" monitor? is it "blatantly low end" too?
http://www.imagescience.com.au/produ...libration.html

Now i'm sorry if i was rude in this post, it's just that you're becoming a bit too hateful towards...well... everyone here.
Polygon also not sure what the chip has to do with it.. Apple uses the same chip I have too... Except I have more cores lol.

E5 Intel Xeon... But hey wahtever Makar is right, My higher spec machine cant out perform a lower spec machine.. because I some how use "consumer" products. You know, Asus, Intel, etc.. Apple sure doesnt use THOSE manufacturers.. do they.. ROFL..

Again hes going to lose this battle but not in his mind. He doesnt know Intel has an 8 core CPU, He doesnt know Apple doesnt provide monitors with their machine? (at a thousand piece.. woo hurray for 1440?) Cant win with people who refuse to accept
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Reference monitors lie in the tens of thousands price range. At 26" I would expect 1200p as a bare minimum, and 1440p ideally.
ROFL... Ok buddy. You have fun nitpicking about above 1080 resolution and an extra 400 bucks on each monitor, when I dont do Video editing.. and well. Apple doesnt sell their machines WITH monitors.. so your point is still very... lost in the disucssion. But nice try!
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Reference monitors lie in the tens of thousands price range. At 26" I would expect 1200p as a bare minimum, and 1440p ideally.
Yes and so? You can buy a $3000 20 inch reference monitor, does that make it low end? I still don't understand your point. Resolution?

You are saying that because a 12mpx nikon d3s has less MPX than a 18mpx compact that makes it low end?
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
I'm not trying to be hateful here, just pointing out that using consumer specced components is not a fair comparison.

And yes, 1080p is a consumer oriented spec. 1200p like you linked and above is what is used in decent monitors.
Yeah Polygon, lots of Typhoon love in there haha. They are amazing fans, I love them to death.



Makar1 its fun to have you respond, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes I do use ECC Ram and I find it funny you really believe the difference in price is all that much. Perhaps you should build more computers from scratch instad of just doing alot of reading.

1080p are not below spec. 1the IPS panels are now top of the line, which run 700 to 800 bucks. Apples run $1200 and ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF A MAC PRO

ALso as Slvr Dragon stated, my "Cheap" Consumer, Reference based cards are 7970s. Funny how they dont list what dual GPU they put in there, since from the Apple store you can still only put ATI Cards in there, and you would need to buy after market Quadros to go above my "Cheap" 6 GB total SLI setup..

None of the options to build a Mac Pro offer anything other than the ECC Ram you are so giddy about (Which provides absolutely no performance benefits). ATI Cards, Below Spec Intel Chips available on market, Just now getting on the SSD Bandwagon? Claiming PCIE SSD Can reach 1250mb? Sure Apple it can, once they develop flash memory that can write and read at that speed. PCIE SSD Drives still top out at SATA Speeds in sustained writes.

You love Apple I get it Makar... but dont make yourself look like a fool when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
Reference monitors lie in the tens of thousands price range. At 26" I would expect 1200p as a bare minimum, and 1440p ideally.
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
I'm not trying to be hateful here, just pointing out that using consumer specced components is not a fair comparison.

And yes, 1080p is a consumer oriented spec. 1200p like you linked and above is what is used in decent monitors.
Completely untrue when it comes to video.
Reference 1080p monitor? no? never heard of it?
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
Likewise, there's absolutely no reason to buy a Mac Pro if you want a gaming machine.
Gaynell Rydberg
12.06.2013
7970s are not cheap... especially in crossfire w/ Komodo waterblocks.

They're just geared towards gaming, not video processing. There's absolutely no reason to buy a Firepro if you aren't doing primarily video work. Why does having 'low end' monitors even matter? It's not like the Mac Pro is coming with Cinema Displays.

I love how you just assume the worst about his build and just trash talk it down...
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
I'm not trying to be hateful here, just pointing out that using consumer specced components is not a fair comparison.

And yes, 1080p is a consumer oriented spec. 1200p like you linked and above is what is used in decent monitors.
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
You used cheap consumer graphics cards, I'm guessing non-ECC consumer RAM, and blatantly low end consumer monitors if you're only getting 1080p at 26 inch. Do the 16 cores mean you've used a couple of AMD 8 core processors too?

I'm sure it works great but it's not exactly comparable overall.

Sorry to say this but, why do you fuck with everyone so much?

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that when it comes to opencl/opengl you have the same performance from "cheap" consumer oriented and pro oriented cards, if they share the same chip of course.

Do you even know what ECC means? Please enlighten me without changing tabs and switching over to wikipedia to check what ecc memory is and where it is most crucial (hint: definitely not in a prosumer ecosystem towards which the mac pro is oriented)

It's also clear from his post that,for 7.5k and that specs he cited, he must have used intel processors and not those bullcrap amd bulldozer chips (that by the way don't support dual cpu configs) (unless you're talking about amd's opteron offerings, that also suck balls.

and to finish it off, 26inch at 1080p is "blatantly low end"?
What about this 1200p measly 24" monitor? is it "blatantly low end" too?
http://www.imagescience.com.au/produ...libration.html

Now i'm sorry if i was rude in this post, it's just that you're becoming a bit too hateful towards...well... everyone here.
Alphonso Deitchman
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by balakoth
I built 16 cores, Dual 7970s, 1TB SSD, Dual Closed Loop Watercooling, 64 GB of RAM for 7k, INCLUDING two 1080p 26 inch Monitors. For 7,200. If they can match or beat that with 12 cores, I guess they will be doing pretty good compared to their previous track record of pricing.
You used cheap consumer graphics cards, I'm guessing non-ECC consumer RAM, and blatantly low end consumer monitors if you're only getting 1080p at 26 inch. Do the 16 cores mean you've used a couple of AMD 8 core processors too?

I'm sure it works great but it's not exactly comparable overall.
Gaynell Rydberg
12.06.2013
JESUS. THAT COMPUTER BALAKOTH.

And I thought the people over at Hard Forum were crazy with their builds...
Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
HAHAHAHAHA I'M CURRENTLY DYING RIGHT HERE XD








Dannie Dimora
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by balakoth
Try more than 7 8 K Polygon. When I was pricing Mac Pros vs building my custom machine, Apples highest spec possibility came in at 11.5k before monitors. This was 12 cores then as well.

So their "later this year mac" isnt really much. Their new one is going to have to weigh in pretty heafty at even bottom end specs.

I built 16 cores, Dual 7970s, 1TB SSD, Dual Closed Loop Watercooling, 64 GB of RAM for 7k, INCLUDING two 1080p 26 inch Monitors. For 7,200. If they can match or beat that with 12 cores, I guess they will be doing pretty good compared to their previous track record of pricing.

DSCN0581.jpg
Well that's a fucking awesome build dude! Imma see some gentle typhoon love in that case

Yeah i just gave a random price there. Specced with top pf the line gfx this baby's going to come in at 12-13 if not more
Shawn Vanhaitsma
12.06.2013
Originally Posted by Polygon
There's nothing "pro" about it.
It's gonna cost an eye, an arm and a leg. 3k minimum, given the fact it's manufactured in the USA.
And it has NO expandability whatsoever.

Want to install your REDrocket in that baby to, you know, edit PRO videos? Well that's just too bad.

"oh well yeah but you have thunderbolt 2 and shit"

So what? Taking bandwidth away from the GPUs? Fantastic!

This is not a PRO machine. This is just a nice-looking, heavily engineered prosumer unit which is going to look just oh-so-damn-cool together with those harman kardon soundsticks.

EDIT: also, 3k will probably be a quadcore model.

The 12core will probably weigh in at something like 7-8k, which is more than enough to build a 16core watercooled beast that will crunch the crap out of this, raw power-wise. Will it look as sleek and small? No.
Will you have the pleasure of having a better rig for the same price? Hell yeah.

Try more than 7 8 K Polygon. When I was pricing Mac Pros vs building my custom machine, Apples highest spec possibility came in at 11.5k before monitors. This was 12 cores then as well.

So their "later this year mac" isnt really much. Their new one is going to have to weigh in pretty heafty at even bottom end specs.

I built 16 cores, Dual 7970s, 1TB SSD, Dual Closed Loop Watercooling, 64 GB of RAM for 7k, INCLUDING two 1080p 26 inch Monitors. For 7,200. If they can match or beat that with 12 cores, I guess they will be doing pretty good compared to their previous track record of pricing.

DSCN0581.jpg
Rolanda Clodfelder
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by R01
I'm also not really finding anything on TB vs. PCI-E in terms of latency. The only thing I've found is a community post of some guy using a chassis and a MB Air to run some tests. Post Here
Very good find and pretty clearly shows the lack of limitation of using thunderbolt chassis for peripherals - personally I see it as a giant step forward rather than backwards.

Is that based on the refresh rate of the display, or is it the extra delay caused by Thunderbolt? The only thing I can find with searches is how TB has lower latency than USB.
It was a test on last years Thunderbolt display where it mentioned unsuitable for gaming due to the latency - however on re-believe its probably a limitation with the display itself rather than the latency of thunderbolt.
Trey Brune
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
The only thing I can find with searches is how TB has lower latency than USB.
I'm also not really finding anything on TB vs. PCI-E in terms of latency. The only thing I've found is a community post of some guy using a chassis and a MB Air to run some tests. Post Here

In any case, the tests make it hard to determine what to believe. He was playing back 192 tracks while recording 192 tracks at 48kHz, all at 128 buffer size (which is pretty darn small). He ended with 392 samples which is 8.16 MS of latency. He also goes on saying that considering the large I/O he couldn't go at 64 buffer size, and that using a beefier computer would have reduced the sample latency even more (claiming 24 samples apparently).

In any case, 8 MS latency isn't too bad when mixing, but it won't be the first time I get an angry musician over talkback complaining about latency when tracking. If the guy from this post is true in his statement that you can decrease latency to something as low as 24 samples (with more processing power) then we can probably throw the whole "PCI-E has more latency" argument out.
Alphonso Deitchman
11.06.2013
Is that based on the refresh rate of the display, or is it the extra delay caused by Thunderbolt? The only thing I can find with searches is how TB has lower latency than USB.
Rolanda Clodfelder
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Sorry, didn't mean to imply per card. Where are you getting information about Thunderbolt having significant latency vs regular PCIE?
For a high bandwidth displays the Video Latency over Thunderbolt @ 2560x1440 is around 10ms (around the same latency as a monitor speaker 5ft from your head)

Yes arguably more latency pcie but for file transfers and constant data streaming it would negligible.
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
They are not for "acceleration" and they are certainly not for use in any sort of audio applications. You would use them for applications specifically designed to make use of their parallel processing power.
Yes. Want the stability of a mac pro specifically made for your needs which DO NOT include photoshop maya and 3dsmax? Well we'll throw in a couple of $3k gpus that you'll never use just in case.

Why now, audio-related programs are less important than 3d rendering ones? Call it the Mac Pro Designer Edition then.

The audio industry has run on mac for the past what, decade? Of course i expect apple to make such a product configurable!
Alphonso Deitchman
11.06.2013
Sorry, didn't mean to imply per card. Where are you getting information about Thunderbolt having significant latency vs regular PCIE?
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
The V7900 gets up to 1.8 TFLOPS per card. The new Mac Pro's Fire Pros are rated at 7 TFLOPS.

Edit: Where are you getting all this information about a cut down base model?
7tflops for the whole machine,not one card
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
http://www.dv247.com/news/Pro%20Tool...%20Avid/133280

Boom.

Thunderbolt is external PCI-E, it's basically NO different to having an internal PCI-E card.

Just for comparison a 1x PCI-E 3.0 card has a theoretical throughput of 980MB/s; Thunderbolt is 10Gbit/s, aka 1.25GB/s.

The RME HDSPe AIO, a
Alphonso Deitchman
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by Polygon
The firepros aren't any more gpgpu computing oriented than any other consumer card on the market if the system itself doesn't support it.
And last time i checked osx doesn't support any kind of gpgpu acceleration if not on the visual aspect of things.

Ever saw protools or cubase accelerated with gpus? No? Really?
They are not for "acceleration" and they are certainly not for use in any sort of audio applications. You would use them for applications specifically designed to make use of their parallel processing power.
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by GeekGod
I have a couple thunderbolt promise pegasus arrays and I gotta say they are wicked fast. Thunderbolt is great technology - not sure why some folks are calling it bunk.
You're talking about sheer storage, not overall expandability.
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by R01
In terms of audio, all I really care about is latency + processing. I'm sure thunderbolt is a great transfer method, it just lacks the power you get from DSP cards. I'm only saying this because I've mixed movie scores that have 100+ tracks, and then processing + latency becomes pretty crucial. Chiming in because I consider that pro level work if anything.
This.
Dannie Dimora
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
The Fire Pros are there for compute performance more than anything. If you don't need such high performance, then you obviously wouldn't buy the machine.

Being able to "afford" something like this doesn't really apply in the same way as a typical computer as they are not consumer-oriented.
The firepros aren't any more gpgpu computing oriented than any other consumer card on the market if the system itself doesn't support it.
And last time i checked osx doesn't support any kind of gpgpu acceleration if not on the visual aspect of things.

Ever saw protools or cubase accelerated with gpus? No? Really?
Doreen Schurle
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
When you repeatedly make baseless unsubstantiated claims on a variety of threads there's little left to do besides contradict with facts.

You might want to look up the definition of "trolling" if you believe arguing and contradicting qualifies while your so-called humour does not.
If you REALLY believe that's what you're doing, then I'm just going to ignore you from now on and wait for the inevitable end result.
Alphonso Deitchman
11.06.2013
When you repeatedly make baseless unsubstantiated claims on a variety of threads there's little left to do besides contradict with facts.

You might want to look up the definition of "trolling" if you believe arguing and contradicting qualifies while your so-called humour does not.
Doreen Schurle
11.06.2013
My comments about it looking like a bin? It's called humour. And my last few posts have been informational regarding Thunderbolt and the specifications of the unit. You know, actually contributing to the discussion. All YOU do is just contradict every post I make on here, usually dragging Reloop into it somewhere like over on the Z1 thread.

It's getting old, and it's not helping anyone else on this community . Either pack it in, or go troll on Reddit.
Qiana Castellucci
11.06.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Fair enough. Be aware, however, that your behaviour is literally now bordering on just plain trolling.
Oh the irony......
Alphonso Deitchman
11.06.2013
How would you describe your initial posts to the thread then?

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