Bit rate of vinyl rips

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Bit rate of vinyl rips
Posted on: 11.06.2013 by Hank Guidas
Hey,

I've want to know how high the bit quality for vinyl rips should be. 192kbit seems ok for smaller venues, but that's talking regular mp3 tracks, not rips.

I have found some vinyl rips online because the tracks haven't been available as mp3. Is 192kbit good enough for vinyl rips?
Layne Koop
04.02.2014
Originally Posted by xs2man
Nope. Vinyl, being analogue, has an infinite bitrate. The higher bitrate you rip your vinyl to the better. So rip it to WAV and compress to FLAC for the best quality.
Yes and no. Vinyl is analog...but that does not imply "infinite" resolution or bit depth. This is picking at nits...but even so...analog recording mediums have well known limitations (and a few benefits).

I agree that FLAC is a good choice for archiving music. I find that the "default" settings yield a file size that is 50%-60% the size of the corresponding wav file.

Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
1. Is it really worth converting all my banging tunes which are MP3 at 320Kbps?
If you mean re-ripping from the original source and storing, then "yes" it is worth doing. I would rip to FLAC for storage, and convert from there to whatever you want to use while playing a gig. Over the 15-ish years I have been using a computer to play music, I have ripped my CD collection four times....each time to improve the quality while staying within the space constraints of the day. At this point, I have everything ripped as FLAC...so in theory, I will not need to go back to the originals every again.

Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
2. I don't really care if I notice the difference if I have headphones close to my ear (for example), but will the crowd?
Yes and no.

There is a common mis-conception that larger sound systems are "higher fidelity." They are not...but they are typically louder than most home-listening systems. The highest fidelity, and the best chance to "spot" a lower quality recording, will come in a small(er), acoustically treated room, with quality headphones or "flat" monitor speakers. Adding the background noise of a car going down the highway, or a club with 500 people who are talking and carrying on...is NOT the best environment to use to pick out low(er) quality source materials.

However, the Fletcher-Munson effects does bring out some details in the music at higher SPL levels than is present at lower SPL levels. That can make lower resolution recordings stand out at higher SPL levels.

The generic advice remains, use mp3@320 or the lossless format of your choice for all music.

Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
3. If the above questions are true... What is the best way or one of the best ways of converting MP3 to WAV or AIFF?
Do not convert. Re-rip from the original source material.

Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
4. Which is better in terms of quality WAV or AIFF?
6 -v- half a dozen.

Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
5. Will this take up a fuck ton of space?
Not in practical terms. mp3@320 is about 2.5MB per minute. Wav is about 10MB per minute. FLAC is 5-6MB per minute.

I can buy a 1TB external drive for less than $100. Hard drive space is effectively "free" compared to the cost of the music.

Originally Posted by happydan
Also, there's two types of DJ in this world. those that have downloaded "free" music at some point, and God Damned Liars.
I still have my collection of bootleg cassette tapes from the 80's.

Originally Posted by ImNotDedYet
Don't ever "upgrade" from mp3 to WAV/AIFF/FLAC/WHATEVER lossless format. As an MP3, it's already lost some of the audio quality. You can't get that back, so it would be a waste of time to attempt it.
There are some narrow regions where the conversion makes sense. Most audio editors will convert any file to wav (or equivalent) in order to edit the song. If you are planning to incorporate a bit of audio that you only have as mp3 into a music editor...doing the conversion ONE TIME from mp3 to wav makes sense. This will NOT recover the lost information, but it will prevent additional losses from multiple conversions from mp3 to wav and back.
Lakeesha Storman
03.02.2014		Don't ever "upgrade" from mp3 to WAV/AIFF/FLAC/WHATEVER lossless format. As an MP3, it's already lost some of the audio quality. You can't get that back, so it would be a waste of time to attempt it.
Brunilda Kora
03.02.2014		I can honestly say that I have never downloaded "free" music.

But, I am definitely one of the 2 types of DJ mentioned above.
Alycia Niederriter
03.02.2014
There's two types of DJ in this world. those that have downloaded "free" music at some point, and God Damned Liars.
Best DJ quote ever ?
Evalyn Voges
03.02.2014
Originally Posted by Daily Crisis
Some very bold statements there.
Not really. Once a file is low bitrate, you can't magically make it sound better without a lot of work (and sometimes there's no chance at all).

Also, there's two types of DJ in this world. those that have downloaded "free" music at some point, and God Damned Liars.
Alycia Niederriter
03.02.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
1. Is it really worth converting all my banging tunes which are MP3 at 320Kbps?
Converting them to what? You can't improve the quality of a file.

3. If the above questions are true... What is the best way or one of the best ways of converting MP3 to WAV or AIFF?
Not doing it.

4. Which is better in terms of quality WAV or AIFF?
Neither.

5. Will this take up a fuck ton of space?
Yes.
Some very bold statements there.
Alphonso Deitchman
03.02.2014		1. Is it really worth converting all my banging tunes which are MP3 at 320Kbps?
Converting them to what? You can't improve the quality of a file.

3. If the above questions are true... What is the best way or one of the best ways of converting MP3 to WAV or AIFF?
Not doing it.

4. Which is better in terms of quality WAV or AIFF?
Neither.

5. Will this take up a fuck ton of space?
Yes.
Alycia Niederriter
03.02.2014		Hey, can I just ask a few questions.

1. Is it really worth converting all my banging tunes which are MP3 at 320Kbps?

2. I don't really care if I notice the difference if I have headphones close to my ear (for example), but will the crowd?

3. If the above questions are true... What is the best way or one of the best ways of converting MP3 to WAV or AIFF?

4. Which is better in terms of quality WAV or AIFF?

5. Will this take up a fuck ton of space?

I believe I have about 300GB in my hard drive (I'm not currently at my home computer). Obviously this depends on the amount of tunes I have and how long the tracks are which also effects the file size etc. But I'm talking probably no more than 100 tunes just for playing out.

NOTE: I am not selling out venues. I am playing at a few parties with no more than 150 people until I am 18 and then I can play at a few clubs in my city. So far, 320Kbps MP3 has been fine.

If someone could answer these questions, I would be grateful.

Cheers.
Napoleon Koczur
02.02.2014		If you're ripping your own vinyl collection, I'd record it into your computer at 16 bit 44.1k Wav of aiff. If you need to convert to mp3 after, then you can.

As ripping vinyl takes so much time, it's not something you want to do twice, so get it right the first time! Just as important is making sure your vinyl is clean before ripping, your needle isn't worn out (use the best you can afford) and you don't have any clipping / red lights on your mixer or sound card.

Do it right, do it once, enjoy your music!
Sonja Roybal
10.06.2013
Originally Posted by Dohjo
Ya, I know I shouldn't do it. But it's not something I normally do. I have two rips in my collection which isn't my own. I should go out and buy the vinyl then rip it. However, it would be much easier if producers decided to release their old tracks as mp3.

Don't want this to turn into a thread about pirating. We can all agree that we should support the artists and buy their music.

And thanks for the help. 320 or flac is the way to go
I get it. There's a lot of tunes that I want that aren't available, but part of the fun is the thrill of the hunt ie. tracking down that record you "need."
Hank Guidas
11.06.2013		Hey,

I've want to know how high the bit quality for vinyl rips should be. 192kbit seems ok for smaller venues, but that's talking regular mp3 tracks, not rips.

I have found some vinyl rips online because the tracks haven't been available as mp3. Is 192kbit good enough for vinyl rips?
Debrah Fehrman
14.06.2013		if you are ripping vinyl keeping it as a WAV (if you have the space) or converting to an MP3 at 320 is perfect. No one will noticed the difference if you are playing live.

no matter what avoid anything that is 128 and lower because it will sound like crap no matter where it is ripped from.
Gaynell Rydberg
10.06.2013		It's also something I wouldn't openly admit online lol.

Never know if it'll come back and haunt you.
Hank Guidas
10.06.2013		True! Finding rare tunes etc. is always a kick
Sonja Roybal
10.06.2013
Originally Posted by Dohjo
Ya, I know I shouldn't do it. But it's not something I normally do. I have two rips in my collection which isn't my own. I should go out and buy the vinyl then rip it. However, it would be much easier if producers decided to release their old tracks as mp3.

Don't want this to turn into a thread about pirating. We can all agree that we should support the artists and buy their music.

And thanks for the help. 320 or flac is the way to go
I get it. There's a lot of tunes that I want that aren't available, but part of the fun is the thrill of the hunt ie. tracking down that record you "need."
Hank Guidas
10.06.2013		Ya, I know I shouldn't do it. But it's not something I normally do. I have two rips in my collection which isn't my own. I should go out and buy the vinyl then rip it. However, it would be much easier if producers decided to release their old tracks as mp3.

Don't want this to turn into a thread about pirating. We can all agree that we should support the artists and buy their music.

And thanks for the help. 320 or flac is the way to go
Sonja Roybal
10.06.2013		It amazes me how many people come on here and admit to stealing music.
Hank Guidas
10.06.2013		Maybe one or two have been pirated vinyl rips - admitted. But only if it isn't available as mp3. Mostly talking my own collection. Most places don't have TTs and no reason to use up space on my usb's if it doesn't matter with vinyl. But it does i see
Tamela Batara
10.06.2013		Oh right. So your downloading vinyl rips? So in other words, piracy? Unless your ripping your own collection, avoid it all.
Hank Guidas
10.06.2013		So in general, avoid 192kbit vinyl rips?
Tesha Freudenstein
10.06.2013		just rip it to lossless (WAV/AIF or alternatively FLAC). keep the lossless file for the archives and create a 320kbps MP3 version of it, if FLAC is still to big for you.
Tamela Batara
10.06.2013		The sample rate of a CD is 44.1Khz.
For a WAV file ripped directly from CD, this is 16-bit stereo, so (44100 x 2 ) x 2 = 176400B/s or 176KB/s, which is 1411Kbps, over 4 times more information.

How is 4 times as much information not that much?

It really depends on the source quality admittedly, and the sounds on the source (genre of music), as to whether it's easy or hard to tell the difference between 320 kbps and 1411 kbps when listening on an mp3 player, or low end home hifi. You put the same sources on a stereo of decent quality, or a club sound system, and the difference is pretty obvious.

And, as your ripping vinyl, it's bad enough your compressing the sound down to 1411 kbps. If you look at torrent sites for example, dvd rips are dvd quality, hd rips are hd quality. So vinyl rips are never going to be vinyl quality, but for god sake, if your going to do it, do it as best you can, and FLAC it if space is such a concern.
Augustina Zulu
10.06.2013		I rip mine at 320. I can def tell the difference between the 2 but I believe vinyl sounds different than anything else. I can hear the difference between vinyl and cd and yet cant tell between cd and 256. It may have something to do with hearing the actual needle making noise
Gaynell Rydberg
10.06.2013		It's going to start an argument.

But yes, 320 kbps is good enough.
Hank Guidas
10.06.2013		there's not much difference between 320 and WAV, most people can't tell the difference. (I hope this won't start a huge arguement)
Tamela Batara
11.06.2013		Nope. Vinyl, being analogue, has an infinite bitrate. The higher bitrate you rip your vinyl to the better. So rip it to WAV and compress to FLAC for the best quality.

192 should NEVER be used to DJ out. 320 is bad enough, WAV/AIFF or FLAC is what you should be using.

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