Concept: Slice to Remix Deck
Concept: Slice to Remix Deck Posted on: 13.07.2013 by Johnsie Kingrea
What's up everybody. I was up till 5am working on this concept. After reading the old DJTT "String Theory" I got inspired to pursue an idea I have had for a while. The idea is to be able to chop a track like an MPC into 16 individual hits that can be drummed out and rearranged on the fly. I know you can do this with a Twitch or a properly placed cue points but I wanted to the freedom do it anytime and then save the kit if I liked it. Another concept I wished to implement was the ability to chop a bunch of cells but alter the pitch so you could play different melodies. Unfortunately this functionality is still locked for the Remix Decks. If you'd like to test this out here is what you need. 1) Traktor 2.6.2 + Midi Pipe (free download) + Novation Dicer 2) Dicer midi pipe file and Dicer Remix Deck.tsi (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h55l0a3u46pds7u/xbpJFk7Lb-) 3) Open Dicer midi pipe file and go to midi in on the right menu, make sure dicer is selected as the input 4) Import the Dicer Remix Deck.tsi and in the controller manager for your input select midi port 5) Make sure Deck B is Track Deck and Deck D is a Remix Deck 6) Go to the Move menu in the advanced tab of Deck B and ensure that Move is set to BeatJump (not Loop, Loop in or Loop out) 7) Now you should be able to load track into Deck B, hold button 2 (2 dots) on the Dicer, press button 1 (1 dot) and it should slice your track to the remix deck. Let me know if you have any questions. This is still a working concept but i'll try help as much as possible and i'm going to work on getting compatibility for other controllers as well. | |
Tilda Moman 24.01.2014 | Hi Guys I have been trying to get this working - but when i fire up midipipe and open the Dicer midi pipe file nothing happens. When started from console this is the output: Franks-MacBook-Pro:MacOS Frank$ ./MidiPipe 2014-01-25 00:27:23.326 MidiPipe[510:507] *** WARNING: Method selectRow:byExtendingSelection: in class NSTableView is deprecated. It will be removed in a future release and should no longer be used. Open the Dicer MidiPipe file: 2014-01-25 00:27:39.325 MidiPipe[510:507] *** -[NSKeyedUnarchiver initForReadingWithData:]: incomprehensible archive (0x3c, 0x21, 0x44, 0x4f, 0x43, 0x54, 0x59, 0x50) 2014-01-25 00:27:39.327 MidiPipe[510:507] ( 0 CoreFoundation 0x99b1a6b1 __raiseError + 193 1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x9b1b4091 objc_exception_throw + 162 2 CoreFoundation 0x99b1a5cb +[NSException raise:format:] + 139 3 Foundation 0x94f936da -[NSKeyedUnarchiver initForReadingWithData:] + 490 4 Foundation 0x950b8e01 +[NSKeyedUnarchiver unarchiveObjectWithFile:] + 140 5 MidiPipe 0x00004c71 MidiPipe + 15473 6 MidiPipe 0x000051fb MidiPipe + 16891 7 AppKit 0x913d8683 -[NSSavePanel _didEndSheet:returnCode:contextInfo:] + 263 8 AppKit 0x910a27e5 -[NSWindow endSheet:returnCode:] + 705 9 AppKit 0x910a2517 -[NSApplication endSheet:returnCode:] + 342 10 AppKit 0x913dac28 -[NSSavePanel dismissWindow:] + 131 11 AppKit 0x913db054 -[NSSavePanel ok:] + 470 12 libobjc.A.dylib 0x9b1c02af -[NSObject performSelector:withObject:] + 70 13 AppKit 0x90f56c35 -[NSApplication sendAction:to:from:] + 438 14 AppKit 0x90f56a3d -[NSControl sendAction:to:] + 102 15 AppKit 0x90fa5fcb -[NSCell _sendActionFrom:] + 159 16 AppKit 0x90fc12ea -[NSCell trackMouse:inRectfView:untilMouseUp:] + 2465 17 AppKit 0x90fc0521 -[NSButtonCell trackMouse:inRectfView:untilMouseUp:] + 513 18 AppKit 0x90fbfb45 -[NSControl mouseDown:] + 690 19 AppKit 0x90f3be4d -[NSWindow sendEvent:] + 11953 20 AppKit 0x90ed7cad -[NSApplication sendEvent:] + 4034 21 AppKit 0x90d1c3bc -[NSApplication run] + 823 22 AppKit 0x90d051f8 NSApplicationMain + 1165 23 MidiPipe 0x0000256a MidiPipe + 5482 24 MidiPipe 0x00002491 MidiPipe + 5265 Any suggestions ? Gear: MacBook Pro w/OSX Mavericks Traktor Kontrol F1 Traktor Pro 2.6.2 Reloop Digital Jockey 2 |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rafiq
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Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rafiq
You know there's been rename community suggestions into mapping with uncle steve |
Mira Sabia 17.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I added in a Loop Size Select + Set fxn in between each move and cell capture command in the pipe so that each cell only captures a single one beat sample instead of capturing the entire track into each cell with different start points at each cell. I believe the slice function is useful both ways; the second method lets you have smaller 1 beat loops that you can trigger, where as the original way you made it lets you trigger the slices and have the track then continue to play as it otherwise would (which simulates a simple follow command.) I'll eventually stick an option button into the mapping that lets you choose which pipe you're using to select between these two slice modes. In regards to effects and pitching. Check out my videos in this thread here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...079#post637079 The mapping for my MF3D does mapped effects + beat juggling/beat slicing with regular track decks and lets you do harmonized tone play. I believe those might be similar to what you're referring to, though I haven't yet applied all that stuff to the remix deck part of the mapping. I also posted a video there showing the remix deck mode of the mapping and how I got the slice to remix deck function working so far...still working on it, let me know what you guys believe. Also need feedback on the "choke" option. As Stewe said, you don't need midi pipe for effects or pitching. Midi pipe is needed for commands that need to be done in sequence or certain commands which it can't interpret simultaneously (i.e. multiple beatjumps at the same time). You can already map buttons in traktor to load and trigger multiple effects simultaneously. Check out the controller mappings section of the board here if you haven't already, lots of useful resources there. Stewe is the king of that domain The only other things I've used midi pipe to accomplish thus far are: 1. Allow me to route two controllers into one input/output so that I can carry modifiers and conditions across controllers. For instance, I can use a button on one controller as a shift button for another controller and have controllers talk to each other in different ways. 2. Before 2.6.2 came out, I was using midi pipe to let me "invert" all commands in Traktor before they fixed that problem. I'd be interested to hear what other ways people have put it to use. |
Johnsie Kingrea 29.07.2013 | It would have to be in midi mode, otherwise Midipipe won't be able to detect the Z2. |
Anisa Fourte 29.07.2013 | It would be mappable in MIDI mode of the Z2... As for HID mode, I'm not sure on that one. |
Thresa Treon 24.07.2013 | This is an awesome idea! Do you believe this is possible to somehow map to the Kontrol Z2 mixer? |
Valeri Holderness 17.07.2013 | great job ryan, definitely going to be using this! |
Mira Sabia 16.07.2013 | Looks good so far bud, lots of different ways to go with it. We can def link up one of these evening s and talk about other options. |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 | For those interested in having this on the Kontrol F1 here's a video for that as well. |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 |
Hey everybody couple video's in the work. The first one here is going to show Deck A+B support for the Dicers. The new midi pipe and .tsi files will linked as well. The next video will provide a very simple Kontrol F1 midi template that will allow you to shift into midi mode on the F1 and do your slicing from there. Enjoy. |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rafiq
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Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rafiq
You know there's been rename community suggestions into mapping with uncle steve |
Mira Sabia 17.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I added in a Loop Size Select + Set fxn in between each move and cell capture command in the pipe so that each cell only captures a single one beat sample instead of capturing the entire track into each cell with different start points at each cell. I believe the slice function is useful both ways; the second method lets you have smaller 1 beat loops that you can trigger, where as the original way you made it lets you trigger the slices and have the track then continue to play as it otherwise would (which simulates a simple follow command.) I'll eventually stick an option button into the mapping that lets you choose which pipe you're using to select between these two slice modes. In regards to effects and pitching. Check out my videos in this thread here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...079#post637079 The mapping for my MF3D does mapped effects + beat juggling/beat slicing with regular track decks and lets you do harmonized tone play. I believe those might be similar to what you're referring to, though I haven't yet applied all that stuff to the remix deck part of the mapping. I also posted a video there showing the remix deck mode of the mapping and how I got the slice to remix deck function working so far...still working on it, let me know what you guys believe. Also need feedback on the "choke" option. As Stewe said, you don't need midi pipe for effects or pitching. Midi pipe is needed for commands that need to be done in sequence or certain commands which it can't interpret simultaneously (i.e. multiple beatjumps at the same time). You can already map buttons in traktor to load and trigger multiple effects simultaneously. Check out the controller mappings section of the board here if you haven't already, lots of useful resources there. Stewe is the king of that domain The only other things I've used midi pipe to accomplish thus far are: 1. Allow me to route two controllers into one input/output so that I can carry modifiers and conditions across controllers. For instance, I can use a button on one controller as a shift button for another controller and have controllers talk to each other in different ways. 2. Before 2.6.2 came out, I was using midi pipe to let me "invert" all commands in Traktor before they fixed that problem. I'd be interested to hear what other ways people have put it to use. |
Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 | Yep. I generally use this when I'm plooping. |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 | That's bad ass! So is everything just mapped to the key knob in traktor? |
Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 | It's Livid CNTRL:R (sig) with a mapping for triggering key parameters based on VanGogo's traktor tutorial (check that out - might come in handy). I made this vid as addition for my thread and also posted all the necessary parameters to Tips'n'Tricks thread in mappings community . |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 | Is that your video Stewe? What controller is that? |
Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 | For that matter the Key should work better. |
Brunilda Kora 16.07.2013 | I like the Transpose idea. It would be like Tone Play for a Turntablist... |
Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I wonder if this would be worth trying but again it's just a random thought. As for Transpose. What do you have in mind? |
Johnsie Kingrea 16.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Stewe
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Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | I really wish they had unlocked the pitch function, that's been the fun part for me. Pitching all the cells up or down a few semi tones, it would hopefully trigger that element of surprise where people can recognize it but it's not clear until you drop it at the original pitch. |
Kellie Myrum 15.07.2013 | Yeah manager should do that. So did you try this idea of recording FX before posting? As addition you can make a menu toggle using a modifier to determine ether effects are applied to slice or not. But that would require another button |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | the reason I wanted to do it in midi pipe was to just have it part of the slice command where it would slice 16 cells and also load up a Reverb. Just one less step, but it's probably a bad idea to have the same FX always loaded with the slice function. |
Kellie Myrum 15.07.2013 | No. Controller manager can load, change unit mode, set parameter, activate effect from single click. If that's what you need? |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | I guess just so it's part of the one button workflow so that it just loads all the right FX values. |
Kellie Myrum 16.07.2013 | It's possible to load any of effects using a direct mapping in Traktor. Is there any specific reason why would you use MIDI pipe to select effects? |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | Yeah rafiq! I also figured out that it's really easy to map this to any midi controller, it just involves having a spare button and using a channel router in midi pipe to route your button press to channel 11 (the channel used by the dicer). Rafiq I was believeing about coming up with some FX presets that really complement the Remix Decks. I was playing around with the Reverb and Delay. We could probably set up another button in Midi Pipe that will auto load the Reverb effect with all the right parameters, thus saving another step. In my mind what's really holding the Remix Decks back is speed. You can't fill them fast enough in between tracks with creative and dynamic cells. You guys have been animals at adopting this, we should definitely voice chat to share ideas. |
Mira Sabia 15.07.2013 | Great stuff Stewe, lookin forward to seeing it. Will especially be great for people that can't or don't want to run Midi Pipe rdej - I added in the beatjump back 16 and deck unload suggestions. Slicing at smaller intervals shouldn't be a problem. The main issue is that slicing is only really consistent and reliable if the track is stopped. Still working on getting consistent results when attempting to slice with the track playing. The whole process is automated by the position of the playhead, so it's hard to expect too much consistency if the playhead is simultaneously and independently moving on it's own. It's less of an issue with bigger slices, but slicing at fractions of a beat is sure to throw the chain off unless the track is stopped. |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | No problem. One thing that I wish would be possible is to do this slicing without interrupting the audio. In future updates it'd be awesome if NI took this concept and just added it to the existing loop window. For example you could hold a shift function, select a loop (slice) value of 4 - 16 slices, then when you capture Traktor would slice up to 16 cells without interrupting audio. |
Kellie Myrum 15.07.2013 | Sounds great, thanks. I forgot to say that the main reason I'm asking for audio files is that I'm not on Mac so I can't run the MIDI pipe app. |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 | For sure i'll upload a Remix set for you when I get home. So far it does a pretty good job at capturing 16 slices, every now and then it catches duplicate slices. However rafiq played with the delay settings in midi pipe and I believe that remedies the problem. |
Kellie Myrum 15.07.2013 | It's my own mapping for automated rmx deck sequencer that I adjusted a bit to accomplish track slices be captured in to remix deck. That all works fine. I've asked for actual audio files (the result of your mapping) so I can test them and see if they play nice in sequence of 16 beats or they might have cut in/outs in lenght. |
Johnsie Kingrea 15.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by Stewe
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Janyce Henningson 15.07.2013 | Hmm looks interesting. |
Kellie Myrum 15.07.2013 | Ok so I made automation that can play and loop all 16 cells in a slot synced to the master tempo. Then I've mapped a loop set to drop a 1 beat loop on each grid marker so from there I can use capture modifier to grab shots in real time simply by holding it (since the automation is triggering cells). rdej47, Can you please share your slices with me? Just want to load them in to my rmx deck and test the length of each individual slice when I play them in sequence and synced to the track deck so we could know if your concept drop slices perfectly in time. |
Johnsie Kingrea 14.07.2013 | Has anyone tried mapping this to a different controller? I tried testing it with my Maschine Mikro but it seems like midipipe won't carry the message to a different controller. |
Johnsie Kingrea 14.07.2013 |
Originally Posted by coolout
I definitely hear you on the Remix Deck limitations. I believe the challenge with the Remix Decks (as well as Ableton and Maschine) is that they require a different mindset and thought process. For a traditional DJ, all they have to do is believe about what song to play next (don't hate, for this example i'm just limiting it to the bare essentials). In this sense it's easy to get into a state of flow where you seem to keep playing the right songs, inspiration again is limited to "Ooo what if I played this song instead?" With the Remix Decks it's often not as easy to take advantage of inspiration. It requires way more thought about how you're going to set up the cells, how you're going to mix in and mix out, and how to make sure it doesn't get repetitive. By the time you've figured out what you're going to do the moment has likely passed and you didn't have time to capture all the things you needed into the remix decks. It often requires a lot more preparation in advance, detailed preparation. Again preparation for a DJ would consist of making a playlist (structured around a theme, BPM, or genre) and making sure they have enough tracks that will enable them to change the vibe if they need to. Preparing a Remix Deck would require preparing cells for a specific song and preparing cells that will enable you to get out of that Remix Deck and into your next track in a seamless way. What I hope we can turn this Slice function into is a way to take advantage of inspiration on the fly, without being confined to pre determined remix cells. "What if I sliced this section into 1/2 beats." |
Johnsie Kingrea 14.07.2013 | That'd be awesome, we should set up a Google Hangout and just brainstorm some ideas. Yes I also realized it can be cumbersome when you try play the different slots due to the sounds overlapping. My work around was the same, set cells to Gate and quantize value to 1. I played around with it for a bit yesterday and there was a couple of things that I also thought would be beneficial. 1) Beatjump x16 <- : This would jump the track deck back to it's original spot 2) Remix Deck Unload button: This will reset the Remix Deck. Then when you slice a track, the remix deck will match the tempo value to the track you just sliced. 3) Slicing micro values (1/4, 1/2): Currently Slicing with the loop function set to 1/4 or 1/2 results in a lot of duplicate slices. I'm not totally sure what could be done to remedy this. 4) Another thing that I found difficult making the remix decks more dynamic and interesting. It's cool to rearrange the cells but it's so obvious that you're just playing loops and it gets repetitive. I thought it'd be cool to create a default fx chain that gives it a bit more depth (a light delay, with some reverb). Eventually i'd like to be able to set up another slice command that will chop just one beat but adjust the pitch across the remix decks. That will have to wait until they unlock that midi function. |
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