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APC40 / PUSH / Maschine ? Which should I buy and why for Ableton?

Home :: General Discussion :: APC40 / PUSH / Maschine ? Which should I buy and why for Ableton?Reply

APC40 / PUSH / Maschine ? Which should I buy and why for Ableton? Posted on: 19.03.2013 by Warner Rotberg I have read in depth about all of them, but still not sure where to splash my hard earned cash.
Kara Okumoto 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by pokerdawg Push is just hardware used with Ableton Live. Ableton sells their own instruments but you can import any sound pack you want. The instruments (vst) from Native Instruments can can be used in Ableton Live. Keep in mind Push comes with a lite version of Ableton Live so when you out grow it, you'll spend more for the full version. So you can get sounds, samples, and VSTs from all over and use it in Ableton. Ableton Live Standard has built in instruments. There's a more expensive version with even more instruments. The sounds and instruments that come with Ableton Live are really mediocre and cannot really compete with what comes with Komplete. Also, Live's built-in instruments can only be used in Live while Komplete instruments can be used in any DAW you choose to use. Originally Posted by sw84244 Push vs. Maschine is not apples with apples. Push is really more for the workflow and control on Live while Maschine Studio e.g. is more a monster groove production system There are similarities though and some people do choose to use one or the other. It just depends on what your needs are. They both have a pattern based sequencers with scenes and clips. Where Maschine has the edge is being able to have complete control over the software with the integrated hardware and giving you the option never to look at the computer or touch a mouse if you don't want to. Maschine also comes with a rather excellent Live control surface template which you can switch back and forth from Maschine mode at the press of a button. Of course, Push has the 8x8 grid buttons but I prefer to just use a regular MIDI keyboard for chords and melodies.
Ervin Calvery 06.10.2013	Originally Posted by m3ta Better to ignore Akai's "MPC" Ren related products. That's their first attempt at a software based product and it's notoriously buggy and lacking in features. And despite having the controller, it still forces you to use the mouse and stare at the computer screen a lot unlike Maschine. And you can't even export individual sounds. It's very telling that Akai (now owned by Numark/Alesis) are amateurs when it comes to software since they've only had experience making hardware. I believe this is mostly fair - remember that Akai also makes Push, but Ableton makes Live.
Kara Okumoto 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by pokerdawg or the Akai MPC Ren if you are crossing the $1k budget. Better to ignore Akai's "MPC" Ren related products. That's their first attempt at a software based product and it's notoriously buggy and lacking in features. And despite having the controller, it still forces you to use the mouse and stare at the computer screen a lot unlike Maschine. And you can't even export individual sounds. It's very telling that Akai (now owned by Numark/Alesis) are amateurs when it comes to software since they've only had experience making hardware.
Bulah Pizzolo 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by Sambo MK uses a Maschine for production and he's absolutely killing it at the moment, he's also got over two decades of experiences. If a guy like that uses one, it's testament to it's capability. C'mon .. just because other people use it, doesn't mean it automatically fits to my needs. That's bull shit. Did you heard about marketing? May be it's not what I am looking for.
Ardith Leabo 04.10.2013	Push is just hardware used with Ableton Live. Ableton sells their own instruments but you can import any sound pack you want. The instruments (vst) from Native Instruments can can be used in Ableton Live. Keep in mind Push comes with a lite version of Ableton Live so when you out grow it, you'll spend more for the full version. So you can get sounds, samples, and VSTs from all over and use it in Ableton. Ableton Live Standard has built in instruments. There's a more expensive version with even more instruments. BY THE WAY, you should read up on Maschine Studio or the Akai MPC Ren if you are crossing the $1k budget. Originally Posted by sw84244 I know it's an older thread, but as I have gone through all the replies now, I hope you confirm my understanding: APC40 is naturally more for live performance. Maschine to me sounds more as a beat production machine with several additional options. Finally Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. My concern is: Maschine comes up with a massive library of sounds. I am not sure about Push. Where does e.g. the drum kits come from? With Maschine it's a soft- and hardware solution. Push is almost ready to go by starting Live, but where does the sounds come from?
Kara Okumoto 04.10.2013	Originally Posted by sw84244 Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. Not if you're wanting to do hands-on sampling and sample-based production using an integrated controller. Push doesn't let you sample from the hardware and it can't do any of the sample slicing, or even manual chopping, editing start/end points, sampling to a pad and duplicating that pad to other pads, basically any kind of sample manipulation...etc. Maschine is what you want if you need to do any of that.
Ervin Calvery 04.10.2013	Originally Posted by sw84244 Finally Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. No, I definitely don't believe so. Push doesn't really have access to many of Live's production functions - only note input and clip launching. Originally Posted by sw84244 My concern is: Maschine comes up with a massive library of sounds. I am not sure about Push. Where does e.g. the drum kits come from? With Maschine it's a soft- and hardware solution. Push is almost ready to go by starting Live, but where does the sounds come from? It plays drum racks and other instruments in Live. Live comes with some sounds, Suite comes with more.
Ardith Leabo 18.09.2013	The Ableton Push is destined for LIVE use: 970282_10151243895952168_848298249_n.jpg Richie Hawtin with Push
Cody Mcnall 08.10.2013	I have both Maschine MK2 and recently got Ableton. I will say the combination of them both is a gift from God! lol I try to use them as one unit as oppose to seeing them as seprate production tools.
Kara Okumoto 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by pokerdawg Push is just hardware used with Ableton Live. Ableton sells their own instruments but you can import any sound pack you want. The instruments (vst) from Native Instruments can can be used in Ableton Live. Keep in mind Push comes with a lite version of Ableton Live so when you out grow it, you'll spend more for the full version. So you can get sounds, samples, and VSTs from all over and use it in Ableton. Ableton Live Standard has built in instruments. There's a more expensive version with even more instruments. The sounds and instruments that come with Ableton Live are really mediocre and cannot really compete with what comes with Komplete. Also, Live's built-in instruments can only be used in Live while Komplete instruments can be used in any DAW you choose to use. Originally Posted by sw84244 Push vs. Maschine is not apples with apples. Push is really more for the workflow and control on Live while Maschine Studio e.g. is more a monster groove production system There are similarities though and some people do choose to use one or the other. It just depends on what your needs are. They both have a pattern based sequencers with scenes and clips. Where Maschine has the edge is being able to have complete control over the software with the integrated hardware and giving you the option never to look at the computer or touch a mouse if you don't want to. Maschine also comes with a rather excellent Live control surface template which you can switch back and forth from Maschine mode at the press of a button. Of course, Push has the 8x8 grid buttons but I prefer to just use a regular MIDI keyboard for chords and melodies.
Bulah Pizzolo 05.10.2013	I checked some details again to get a better understanding. Finally I absolutely agree to one of the former posts when somebody was saying: It's not either or! You may need both! <-- Again, totally right. Push vs. Maschine is not apples with apples. Push is really more for the workflow and control on Live while Maschine Studio e.g. is more a monster groove production system even when there are more options and possibilities for your workflow.
Ervin Calvery 06.10.2013	Originally Posted by m3ta Better to ignore Akai's "MPC" Ren related products. That's their first attempt at a software based product and it's notoriously buggy and lacking in features. And despite having the controller, it still forces you to use the mouse and stare at the computer screen a lot unlike Maschine. And you can't even export individual sounds. It's very telling that Akai (now owned by Numark/Alesis) are amateurs when it comes to software since they've only had experience making hardware. I believe this is mostly fair - remember that Akai also makes Push, but Ableton makes Live.
Kara Okumoto 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by pokerdawg or the Akai MPC Ren if you are crossing the $1k budget. Better to ignore Akai's "MPC" Ren related products. That's their first attempt at a software based product and it's notoriously buggy and lacking in features. And despite having the controller, it still forces you to use the mouse and stare at the computer screen a lot unlike Maschine. And you can't even export individual sounds. It's very telling that Akai (now owned by Numark/Alesis) are amateurs when it comes to software since they've only had experience making hardware.
Bulah Pizzolo 05.10.2013	Originally Posted by Sambo MK uses a Maschine for production and he's absolutely killing it at the moment, he's also got over two decades of experiences. If a guy like that uses one, it's testament to it's capability. C'mon .. just because other people use it, doesn't mean it automatically fits to my needs. That's bull shit. Did you heard about marketing? May be it's not what I am looking for.
Jetta Drenzek 05.10.2013	MK uses a Maschine for production and he's absolutely killing it at the moment, he's also got over two decades of experiences. If a guy like that uses one, it's testament to it's capability.
Bulah Pizzolo 05.10.2013	Thanks. Yes, definitely interested in the new maschine studio. However, I can't find that much information yet, beside of natives introduction video on their website or even better the DJTT vid here. I am not sure yet, what it can more than the traditional mkII version before or the push right now. My overall first impression is, it come with better features like the jogwheel which allows you a better workflow .. the 2 new colored resolution displays .. the new 2.0 software. But I don't see the big deal yet. By the way, I don't want to limit my budget. I am going to build up my home / project studio now at home within the beasement and already spend a few thousand dollars for acoustic.
Ardith Leabo 04.10.2013	Push is just hardware used with Ableton Live. Ableton sells their own instruments but you can import any sound pack you want. The instruments (vst) from Native Instruments can can be used in Ableton Live. Keep in mind Push comes with a lite version of Ableton Live so when you out grow it, you'll spend more for the full version. So you can get sounds, samples, and VSTs from all over and use it in Ableton. Ableton Live Standard has built in instruments. There's a more expensive version with even more instruments. BY THE WAY, you should read up on Maschine Studio or the Akai MPC Ren if you are crossing the $1k budget. Originally Posted by sw84244 I know it's an older thread, but as I have gone through all the replies now, I hope you confirm my understanding: APC40 is naturally more for live performance. Maschine to me sounds more as a beat production machine with several additional options. Finally Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. My concern is: Maschine comes up with a massive library of sounds. I am not sure about Push. Where does e.g. the drum kits come from? With Maschine it's a soft- and hardware solution. Push is almost ready to go by starting Live, but where does the sounds come from?
Kara Okumoto 04.10.2013	Originally Posted by sw84244 Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. Not if you're wanting to do hands-on sampling and sample-based production using an integrated controller. Push doesn't let you sample from the hardware and it can't do any of the sample slicing, or even manual chopping, editing start/end points, sampling to a pad and duplicating that pad to other pads, basically any kind of sample manipulation...etc. Maschine is what you want if you need to do any of that.
Ervin Calvery 04.10.2013	Originally Posted by sw84244 Finally Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. No, I definitely don't believe so. Push doesn't really have access to many of Live's production functions - only note input and clip launching. Originally Posted by sw84244 My concern is: Maschine comes up with a massive library of sounds. I am not sure about Push. Where does e.g. the drum kits come from? With Maschine it's a soft- and hardware solution. Push is almost ready to go by starting Live, but where does the sounds come from? It plays drum racks and other instruments in Live. Live comes with some sounds, Suite comes with more.
Bulah Pizzolo 04.10.2013	I know it's an older thread, but as I have gone through all the replies now, I hope you confirm my understanding: APC40 is naturally more for live performance. Maschine to me sounds more as a beat production machine with several additional options. Finally Push seems to be the most reasonable controller to work on music production with Ableton Live. My concern is: Maschine comes up with a massive library of sounds. I am not sure about Push. Where does e.g. the drum kits come from? With Maschine it's a soft- and hardware solution. Push is almost ready to go by starting Live, but where does the sounds come from?
Ardith Leabo 18.09.2013	The Ableton Push is destined for LIVE use: 970282_10151243895952168_848298249_n.jpg Richie Hawtin with Push
Brunilda Kora 17.09.2013	For me: APC: Performance Controller Maschine: Beat maker (although it can do a LOT more!) Push: Full Ableton live Interface/Production BEAST! Of course, you COULD use any of the devices to do anything you want - but PUSH will do things the other 2 can't.
Aleisha Nakaoka 16.09.2013	I own all 3. I defintely use PUSH the most
Ervin Calvery 16.09.2013	Originally Posted by pokerdawg I know it's an old thread but here are my 2 cents. I have the APC40, Maschine, and Push. I LOVE THE ABLETON PUSH!!! If I had to choose 1 it would be the Push. I don't believe it's well known for live performance just yet but I'm sure there will be lots of vids of it in live action before the end of the year. I would be really impressed if I saw lots of videos (other than my own - I'm not going to be impressed with myself) of any of these live before the end of the year. Originally Posted by pokerdawg I'm don't care that Push is not mouseless when it comes to sampling and chopping. I believe chopping with a mouse using warp markers is faster than sampling in Maschine. Maybe it's an experience thing, or you haven't used many of Maschine's slicing capabilities (detect, add/remove, sensitivity).
Ardith Leabo 16.09.2013	I know it's an old thread but here are my 2 cents. I have the APC40, Maschine, and Push. I LOVE THE ABLETON PUSH!!! If I had to choose 1 it would be the Push. I don't believe it's well known for live performance just yet but I'm sure there will be lots of vids of it in live action before the end of the year. I'm don't care that Push is not mouseless when it comes to sampling and chopping. I believe chopping with a mouse using warp markers is faster than sampling in Maschine. I got my APC40 used for $130. I'd rather use that in a live environment and beat the hell out of it. I believe the Push is way overpriced and hope it goes down to something reasonable in a couple of years.
Kellie Myrum 06.08.2013	To OT - check out Livid BASE too, it's awesome controller. Comes with nice Ableton templates, search the youtube.
Gaylord Lomerson 06.08.2013	Originally Posted by starr974 Can we play melodie "in key" mode on the Maschine like the push? Push have 64 pads, for play bassline, or lead, it's very good. On maschine , if it's possible, he have just 16 pads... i have to choice 1 hardware (i have Kontrol S2 but i want add somes improvisations to my set) i dont know what to choose... And i have Komplete 9 Ultimate: what is the best midi controller for that?
Gaylord Lomerson 06.08.2013	Originally Posted by m3ta Push is also quite buggy and feels unfinished from what I'm hearing and there are many complaints already about the quality control issues like the RGB pads not showing the same colors when they're supposed to. Can we play melodie "in key" mode on the Maschine like the push? Push have 64 pads, for play bassline, or lead, it's very good. On maschine , if it's possible, he have just 16 pads... i have to choice 1 hardware (i have Kontrol S2 but i want add somes improvisations to my set) i dont know what to choose...
Kara Okumoto 08.04.2013	There's actually not too much overlap between the Maschine and Push despite the superficial similarities. Maschine does make for an excellent Live controller: Push doesn't rival Maschine at all when it comes to having full mouseless control over the software from the hardware controller, as Maschine is the only one of the two that has that ability. Push is really lacking if you care about sampling/editing/chopping functions and having a mouseless workflow as only a very narrow set of Live's features can be controlled out of the box without the help of programming it in python or Max4Live. It will still require you to use the mouse/trackpad for a lot of things. Some examples of things Push cannot do compared to Maschine: * sample into pads from the hardware * browse and load audio samples or pattern clips from the hardware * slice samples from the hardware * automapping of plugins (Push requires setup beforehand) * the ability to be mouseless (and even computer screen-less) for pretty much every control of its software * preview/pre-hear samples in browser from the hardware before loading them * show things like waveforms on its display since it's only text-based, not graphical. * add/remove slices from the hardware * step sequence regular midi tracks from the hardware * browse and load audio/clips from the hardware * duplicate drum rack pads from the hardware * edit start/end points for unwarped audio clips * access drum rack's sends and mixer * make multiple selection of notes from the hardware * automap to plugins without having to save them in a different format first * step automation (aka step parameter locks/p-locks) * open/close plugin GUI from the hardware * open a project or even start a new project from the hardware * make custom names to show up in the hardware's displays when used as a midi controller * Push is rather useless as a general MIDI controller since it has no editor, you can't change notes, and you can't have MIDI mapping templates * and obviously, Push doesn't have the Komplete integration like Maschine where all presets can be browsed and loaded from the hardware. ...etc. Push is also quite buggy and feels unfinished from what I'm hearing and there are many complaints already about the quality control issues like the RGB pads not showing the same colors when they're supposed to.
Caleb Demillo 28.03.2013	Originally Posted by botstein No, that was a promotion if you bought a new license leading up to the release. Correct. You had to be in specified purchase window to receive the free upgrade promotion. My PUSH is coming today. Woohoo! I also have the Maschine MK2. I don't know if I'll need both. If you don't already have Ableton, you do get a lot of content a Massive with your Maschine purchase. There's value to that, for sure. So why the push? I don't have an ableton controller. Maschine's remote scripts are "ok", but I really fell in love with Maschines software integration. I hope push will do that for me with Live.
Ervin Calvery 28.03.2013	Originally Posted by steverido Read the following and Abletons site. They were promoting the free upgrade building up to its release? http://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/ableton-live-9 No, that was a promotion if you bought a new license leading up to the release.
Garth Ekdahl 28.03.2013	Originally Posted by botstein No, it is not. Read the following and Abletons site. They were promoting the free upgrade building up to its release? http://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/ableton-live-9
Ervin Calvery 28.03.2013	Originally Posted by steverido Live 9 is a free upgrade for you if you have a legit copy. Job done. No, it is not.
Garth Ekdahl 28.03.2013	Originally Posted by DirtyNerd I believe that maybe we should make a distinction between making music and playing music with either Push/APC40 etc. & Live or Maschine HW & SW. There is a difference...are you looking for a solution to create loops, samples etc? Are you looking for an ability to trigger clips, adjust levels, parameters? Are you looking for the ability to do arrangements of different sections of a song? Do you want to "play" the HW (i.e., finger drumming etc.)? I believe workflow matters a lot. I have been believeing about these same issues myself and am trying to determine which way to go. For Live, currently I use a Launchpad,BCR2000, LPK25 and nanoKontrol2. All are fine for triggering clips and adjusting levels...but creating new drum loops, baselines, etc. is still a very "keyboard and mouse" process for me. I would really like something that allows me to just work with the hardware most of the time and not even have to look at the screen. I've been looking at the Push for that reason, but don't want to have to upgrade to Live 9 suite (currently own Live 8 suite). So the wait and quest continues. Live 9 is a free upgrade for you if you have a legit copy. Job done.
Kori Shatz 19.03.2013	I would also like to mention for music production use that I really enjoyed LPC software by NativeKontrol with a Launchpad and because it was directly integrated in Live unlike Maschine I did like it a lot and Stray (Native Kontrol founder and developer) offered amazing support. This convinced me that for 4 times less the price of Maschine and not the hassle of the pitfall of the pseudo-DAW inside a DAW, a controller directly integrated in Live was the ideal solution for me. I believe Stray created some new script similar to Push functions - it may be a very affordable alternative to consider too. Regarding using Maschine a la Hawtin to layer claps or perc loops, ironically a Launchpad synced to traktor as a slave with LPC was much more reliable than Maschine itself regarding the Sync. With LPC, I was able to create nice little loops with Drum racks and it even had a melodic step sequencer for simple basslines. On an iPad Griid by Liine was great to create clips too For DJ use as a complementary source for fills and one-shots LPC seems to me the most efficient and affordable solution. Because I sold my Launchpad, I would be happy so sell my license at a low price for someone who has a Launchpad and wants to try this solution.
Delphine Mauser 19.03.2013	I believe it depends on what your trying to do. I will briefly echo what erpi wrote. Maschine was built to integrate with Maschine software. Although people do their best to get Maschine working smoothly with Ableton, and lots of people rave about it, I found the little things that didnt work to be huge stumbling blocks for proper integration with Ableton. Great for sketching, lots of mouse clicking to get a solid arrangement into Ableton. I sold Maschine because I was getting similar results with my APC40 and a drumPad controller with the help of max for live and Bomes. Yet that was on Live 8. So for me I would rule Maschine out as a contender at integrating with Live. That said, Live 9 offers one thing that it sorely needed to contend with Maschine software, "Record Automation to Session Clips." I LOVE IT. So if you narrow it down in this way you're left with 2 choices. APC40, and PUSH. So how do you anticipate working with Live? If your strictly DJing, playing others tunes, riding faders, launcing clips, mashing up with FX etc. The APC40 sould suffice, and cost much less, leaving you with money for other things, such as NativeKontrol templates for the APC40, or M4L so you can use the abundance of patches made for the APC40 adding killer funtionality. However, if you plan on building beats/songs using drumRacks and instruments (and drumRacks + Sampler are fucking DOPE) PUSH looks like a dream come true. I dont have one and sure it's brand new, plus bugs, and probably missing features. Nevertheless these things will get sorted. Ableton is currently in developement on adding features, integrated M4L devices, and working out bugs. The hardware layout of PUSH looks perfect to achieve a small footprint controller that offers all of that. Coming from 4 years of hacking away at the APC40 to try an emulate things offered in PUSH, they pretty much got everything right except adding faders. However you could easily add a fader controller to your set up. For me the attraction to PUSH is the 8x8 matrix of velocity sensitive pads accompanied by 2 rows of function buttons, all the necessary labeled mode buttons, and 8 encoders for blue handing (one of Lives best features) plus a master encoder. The hardware sequencing layout plus Live's capability is amazing, there is truly nothing like it. If your just getting started in Ableton, it can be an elegant all in one solution, for softwware, laptops, music production and performance in that manner. Anyone who argues that does not know enough about Live as software. Another thing to consider, what is Novation going to release next? Good chance it will be cheaper, and possibly a better layout for what you want. Personally I am trying to ween myself off of Laptop dependency these days, and PUSH is kinda fucking up my plans, maybe. My only beef with this kind of thing is that SO many people will be using this as the center of their rig making everyone look like a similar act. If your trying to stand out and appear unique I say PUSH is the last thing you should consider, but thats a whole different topic.
Leota Dolney 19.03.2013	I believe that maybe we should make a distinction between making music and playing music with either Push/APC40 etc. & Live or Maschine HW & SW. There is a difference...are you looking for a solution to create loops, samples etc? Are you looking for an ability to trigger clips, adjust levels, parameters? Are you looking for the ability to do arrangements of different sections of a song? Do you want to "play" the HW (i.e., finger drumming etc.)? I believe workflow matters a lot. I have been believeing about these same issues myself and am trying to determine which way to go. For Live, currently I use a Launchpad,BCR2000, LPK25 and nanoKontrol2. All are fine for triggering clips and adjusting levels...but creating new drum loops, baselines, etc. is still a very "keyboard and mouse" process for me. I would really like something that allows me to just work with the hardware most of the time and not even have to look at the screen. I've been looking at the Push for that reason, but don't want to have to upgrade to Live 9 suite (currently own Live 8 suite). So the wait and quest continues.
Kori Shatz 19.03.2013	For the point of view of a pure Live use - I tend to disagree even though I understand that workflow is something personal to each user of hardware/software. Maschine is great but as the only piece of software for a computer based setup it has some fatal flaws if you want to do more than simple structured music. I owned Maschine Mk1 - sold it. I owned Mikro Mk1 - sold it. I owned Maschine Mk2 - sold it (damn NI marketing and "hands-on workflow"). I finally pre-ordered Push. Maschine is great and have a fantastic workflow for creating loops and sampling, no doubt about that. The arrangement capabilities on Maschine is very weak and i am not even talking about basic mixdowns (no visual feedback on levels - I know you are supposed to use your ears but frankly it was a evening mare). The worst was trying to move from a Maschine project to arrange in a proper Daw that offers the necessary mixing and arrangement environment. Drag and drop yes it is easy but if it is more than 10 loops it was tedious to say the least - long hours using the mouse. Commit to audio and drag the wavs, you'd better be a king of folders organization to remember which part is your 2 bar fill or your Riser. Routing audio and midi was also a evening mare because Maschine overrides your output audio routing each time you change a sound on the pad. All in all no need for a pseudo-Daw inside your Daw. I had high hopes for the promised Traktor integration but ironically Live was more able to hold the sync tight as a slave than Maschine in Traktor and this integration is still vaporware today after more than 2 years. Push may not be able to do everything from the controller but it would be impossible because Live is much more complex than Maschine. NI needs to work on creating their daw and then Maschine will be a useful tool for making music and not just a tool to create a collection of loops or struggling to create an arrangement where micro edits areso cumbersome to incorporate. No one needs Maschine or Push to make music - keyboard shortcuts and knowing your daw is technically all you need, the rest is talent (no Daws provides that in the box unfortunately)!
Ervin Calvery 19.03.2013	Edit - pmed
Gaynell Rydberg 19.03.2013	Push. If you have the cash, I see no reason to not get the best. Pads are supposed to be just as good as the Maschine, and the APC40 is just an older version of the Push IMO.

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APC40 / PUSH / Maschine ? Which should I buy and why for Ableton?