The Dumbing Down of Electronic Dance Music (I know, I know, but give it a read)

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The Dumbing Down of Electronic Dance Music (I know, I know, but give it a read)
Posted on: 06.06.2012 by Georgina Schatzman
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...134707610.html



Wall Street Journal actually writing an article on this? Who would have thought. Good read actually except for one part that truly made me upset.

Said Mr. Cox: "I'm 50 years old now. I grew up with vinyl, a needle on a record. Turntablism. I'd play a blend of disco with funk, soul and house with a 909 drum machine," he added, referring to a primitive device.
Really? Primitive was the best word you could come up with? Why not "influential", "Iconic" or "Historic"? Do they not realize it's still a highly coveted and still used piece of dance music production?

I'll say it again, people who have no knowledge of dance music, or anything else, should be getting paid to write articles about it.
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Viviana Tarno
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
Maybe he's right. Maybe it'll be on the way out soon. But the one thing that makes me believe he might be wrong: Tiesto. Tiesto in Concert seems like it was the start of this thing, and he was a Dutch DJ playing in the Netherlands.
Oh now it's the Dutchies' fault again

But seriously, you could be right. The weird thing is, however, that over here everyone has moved on already and good parties with good DJs playing real dance music all evening long are still widely spread. From our point of view, it looks like some idiots in the US only lately discovered the music from guys like Tiesto and Afrojack and built a huge hype around it, completely with coming up with new genres named "Dutch house" and all. Over here, quite some people can still enjoy a full evening of underground house/techno/hardcore/whatever is played.
Leeanna Ayla
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
And from a related interview of Ritchie Hawtin,

"Club culture has just been there for years and years, since the ’70s. America, it’s bar culture, concert culture. Go out till 2 a.m., go home. Pick up a girl, pick up a boy, whatever. People in Spain and Italy and Germany, they go out at midevening . Or they start partying at 3 or 4 a.m. and they want to hear music and just dance and freak out. So that’s why they’ve been ahead, it just made sense there. It’s made sense for a long, long, long time, and it’s just taken America a while to catch up."

Maybe he's right. Maybe it'll be on the way out soon. But the one thing that makes me believe he might be wrong: Tiesto. Tiesto in Concert seems like it was the start of this thing, and he was a Dutch DJ playing in the Netherlands.

(full interview)
That's a great interview. My favorite part was this
I was with Deadmau5 last week, and his mom was at the house, and she’s like, “Is this the guy you used to talk about when you were a kid?”
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Matt Kane
07.06.2012
Originally Posted by djproben
yeah seriously; "primitive" is a stick and a piece of animal skin.
18 years in the bizznizz of playing awsome beats that way.
Georgina Schatzman
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
The analog machine can tend to drift on longer sequences, and doesn't present the tighter quantized strings that modern samplers and synths provide, so people are actually better off ditching the 909, grabbing it's samples and running them through more modern studio gear . [/devils_advocate]
But that was also part of the charm and what made each 909 unique to itself. People TRY to get their grooves to just a bit off grid like a 909 and react like all those other classic drums machines.

It's one thing to just sample an 808 kick and have go 4 to the 4, but to actually have the 808 itself running a simple 4 on the 4 pattern, they will sound different. There's certain things going on and happening to the actual sound in the circuits that you really can't emulate.

I thought the exact same thing, but a mate of mine that I used to work with has an 808, 909, 505 and many more pieces of kit and we got into this debate, and after he showed me all the nuances that you're missing out on when just sampling it, I now understand why people go to such great lengths to get the originals.


Now, is it practical? Not at all I'd say. If you've been here long enough you know how I feel about going with software vs hardware. But at the same time I have enough knowledge and respect to realize what these machines have done and still can do.

Calling it "primitive" is like calling a 69 Chevelle "primitive". Sure, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles on a new 2012 Camaro, but it still has more than enough raw power to perform and people still pay out the nose for it (probably not the best comparison, but you get the point).
Darren Teboe
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
Really? Primitive was the best word you could come up with? Why not "influential", "Iconic" or "Historic"? Do they not realize it's still a highly coveted and still used piece of dance music production?

I'll say it again, people who have no knowledge of dance music, or anything else, should be getting paid to write articles about it.

The analog machine can tend to drift on longer sequences, and doesn't present the tighter quantized strings that modern samplers and synths provide, so people are actually better off ditching the 909, grabbing it's samples and running them through more modern studio gear . [/devils_advocate]
Debrah Arnaout
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by Itchy Gash
Totally one episode is enough imo
ya but he can totally play vocals for 2 hours
Birgit Gondal
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by Itchy Gash
Totally one episode is enough imo
rofl
Tommie Siefkes
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
I can't play house for two hours
Totally one episode is enough imo
Georgina Schatzman
06.06.2012		http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...134707610.html



Wall Street Journal actually writing an article on this? Who would have thought. Good read actually except for one part that truly made me upset.

Said Mr. Cox: "I'm 50 years old now. I grew up with vinyl, a needle on a record. Turntablism. I'd play a blend of disco with funk, soul and house with a 909 drum machine," he added, referring to a primitive device.
Really? Primitive was the best word you could come up with? Why not "influential", "Iconic" or "Historic"? Do they not realize it's still a highly coveted and still used piece of dance music production?

I'll say it again, people who have no knowledge of dance music, or anything else, should be getting paid to write articles about it.
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		That's nice to hear.
Viviana Tarno
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
Maybe he's right. Maybe it'll be on the way out soon. But the one thing that makes me believe he might be wrong: Tiesto. Tiesto in Concert seems like it was the start of this thing, and he was a Dutch DJ playing in the Netherlands.
Oh now it's the Dutchies' fault again

But seriously, you could be right. The weird thing is, however, that over here everyone has moved on already and good parties with good DJs playing real dance music all evening long are still widely spread. From our point of view, it looks like some idiots in the US only lately discovered the music from guys like Tiesto and Afrojack and built a huge hype around it, completely with coming up with new genres named "Dutch house" and all. Over here, quite some people can still enjoy a full evening of underground house/techno/hardcore/whatever is played.
Leeanna Ayla
08.06.2012
Originally Posted by mostapha
And from a related interview of Ritchie Hawtin,

"Club culture has just been there for years and years, since the ’70s. America, it’s bar culture, concert culture. Go out till 2 a.m., go home. Pick up a girl, pick up a boy, whatever. People in Spain and Italy and Germany, they go out at midevening . Or they start partying at 3 or 4 a.m. and they want to hear music and just dance and freak out. So that’s why they’ve been ahead, it just made sense there. It’s made sense for a long, long, long time, and it’s just taken America a while to catch up."

Maybe he's right. Maybe it'll be on the way out soon. But the one thing that makes me believe he might be wrong: Tiesto. Tiesto in Concert seems like it was the start of this thing, and he was a Dutch DJ playing in the Netherlands.

(full interview)
That's a great interview. My favorite part was this
I was with Deadmau5 last week, and his mom was at the house, and she’s like, “Is this the guy you used to talk about when you were a kid?”
Dorie Scelzo
08.06.2012		"Guetta and Harris are clich
Viviana Tarno
07.06.2012		Don't make such a fuss out of it.
1. The writer has no knowledge about what influence the 909 had on EDM
2. I've read the article, and I tend to believe he used the word 'primitive' specifically to intentionally intend irony. And there's too much 'tend' in that sentence
Freida Leash
07.06.2012		I love an 808 but really cant tell the difference between the real and propellor head software.
Matt Kane
07.06.2012
Originally Posted by djproben
yeah seriously; "primitive" is a stick and a piece of animal skin.
18 years in the bizznizz of playing awsome beats that way.
Danae Dumler
07.06.2012		yeah seriously; "primitive" is a stick and a piece of animal skin.
Georgina Schatzman
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by sobi
The analog machine can tend to drift on longer sequences, and doesn't present the tighter quantized strings that modern samplers and synths provide, so people are actually better off ditching the 909, grabbing it's samples and running them through more modern studio gear . [/devils_advocate]
But that was also part of the charm and what made each 909 unique to itself. People TRY to get their grooves to just a bit off grid like a 909 and react like all those other classic drums machines.

It's one thing to just sample an 808 kick and have go 4 to the 4, but to actually have the 808 itself running a simple 4 on the 4 pattern, they will sound different. There's certain things going on and happening to the actual sound in the circuits that you really can't emulate.

I thought the exact same thing, but a mate of mine that I used to work with has an 808, 909, 505 and many more pieces of kit and we got into this debate, and after he showed me all the nuances that you're missing out on when just sampling it, I now understand why people go to such great lengths to get the originals.


Now, is it practical? Not at all I'd say. If you've been here long enough you know how I feel about going with software vs hardware. But at the same time I have enough knowledge and respect to realize what these machines have done and still can do.

Calling it "primitive" is like calling a 69 Chevelle "primitive". Sure, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles on a new 2012 Camaro, but it still has more than enough raw power to perform and people still pay out the nose for it (probably not the best comparison, but you get the point).
Darren Teboe
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by JasonBay
Really? Primitive was the best word you could come up with? Why not "influential", "Iconic" or "Historic"? Do they not realize it's still a highly coveted and still used piece of dance music production?

I'll say it again, people who have no knowledge of dance music, or anything else, should be getting paid to write articles about it.

The analog machine can tend to drift on longer sequences, and doesn't present the tighter quantized strings that modern samplers and synths provide, so people are actually better off ditching the 909, grabbing it's samples and running them through more modern studio gear . [/devils_advocate]
Debrah Arnaout
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by Itchy Gash
Totally one episode is enough imo
ya but he can totally play vocals for 2 hours
Birgit Gondal
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by Itchy Gash
Totally one episode is enough imo
rofl
Tommie Siefkes
06.06.2012
Originally Posted by photojojo
I can't play house for two hours
Totally one episode is enough imo
Leeanna Ayla
06.06.2012		I read that earlier today. I like this bit the best I believe

...Avicii, a 22-year-old from Stockholm and an emerging EDM superstar, said: "I didn't come up from DJing, where you're doing 300 shows a year. I feel pretty free, but I want to cater to everyone. I can't play house for two hours."
Lillia Datson
06.06.2012		There's some i agree with, but on the flipside there is some truly spectacular EDM that's come around because of it.

Im imaging they got this jim fella to write about it because he once went to a Disco that went on later than 10PM....

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