Routing Ableton Live into Traktor Solved (kind of)

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Routing Ableton Live into Traktor Solved (kind of)
Posted on: 16.07.2012 by Rosamaria Alamin
Judging form my Google searches on the subject, this is something a lot of people want to do. A lot would recommend the opposite and say Route Traktor into Live, but I want the oddball for several reasons, namely:
1) Mixing is much simpler
2) Ableton effects are more set-and-forget/automation oriented than live
3) after days of writing python scripts, I don't want to do any more Live MIDI mapping

I absolutely love both sampling and scratching. Beating on pads and spinning records are the most fun to me and there isn't a single software solution for both so I use Traktor Scratch Pro (where the sample/clip launching sucks even with the new remix decks IMO) and Ableton Live (ms pinky be damned, the layout/functionality is nowhere near turntablist friendly enough for me).
This is what I have to work with:
Kontrol S4
2 Stanton TTs
Custon built controller for clip launching
Korg mikro set

What I used to do was have Live 's master output on ASIO4ALL and run a cable from my headphone jack to Input C of the S4. It worked fine enough, but it was a huge pain in that I could only use 1 TT at a time, so depending on what I wanted to do I would have to run over and switch the plugs which is super-duper gay.

So I sat down and worked some VAC (Virtual audio Cable) magic and pulled this baby off:
TT --> S4 IN C--> VAC Line 1 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Deck A
TT --> S4 IN D--> VAC Line 2 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Deck B
Live --> VAC Line 3 --> Traktor Deck C
Traktor Master Out --> VAC Line 4 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Master Out (WAV)[as in not ASIO]
Traktor Cue Out --> VAC Line 5 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Cue Out (WAV)

It works. But...caveat. The latency is atrocious (no ASIO!)...from a scratching standpoint anyways. It works fine for simple playing tracks/effects launching/non-intensive clip launching, but no go for anything you really need to watch your timing on. And that's with all the services/processes I don't need running nuked.

So...discuss/try it out. What i'm really hoping for is that somebody can find a better solution or some way to minimize latency to a workable level for scratching. Not having my dream setup is starting to get to me and screw up my workflow.
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by DJ Abide
Are you avoiding ASIO? I don't have a S4, but I have routed Ableton and/or Maschine into Traktor using VAC and Asio4All combined. A4A starts an "instance" for each program. Seems like you could set A4A as sound card out on Traktor and enable the inputs from the S4's soundcard. I'm gonna stop right there because that's the problem huh? You can't enable Timecode control without the S4 being the "supported" Scratch certified soundcard.
No, what you're saying is sort of right, the S4 doesn't have to be the sound interface for scratch. My issue is that VAC is slow as all balls.

BUT JACK ISN'T. Jesus Christ that stuff runs like a bat out of hell. Output latency from Traktor is 3.1 ms (so basically the same as straight S4), so their claims to not add any latency is 100% correct. Played with it for a few hours and it works except for the fact that it doesn't have any EXTRA virtual ports. Since the S4 has 4 ports, that's what Jack gives you. So I'm still stuck with the 1 TT at a time problem, but the latency (little though it was) from Ableton > A$A > Headphone Jack is gone! I'll try to see what I can accomplish if I set A4A as the output device in Jack instead of the S4.
Chasidy Heckenbach
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by weh
JACK looks prety interesting. They claim it was made with real-time in mind so I'll give it a shot.
jack is meant to be pretty good - most studio apps on linux are geared around using jack to glue them together. i'm doing most of my audio stuff on osx and soundflower does all i need atm, but jack definitely looks a lot more flexible and i will be using it on linux once i get my head around which apps fit best into my workflow.
Rosamaria Alamin
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by zestoi
i believe how you've done it is about all you can do. i played about with routing live into traktor and back again using soundflower on mac and the latency seemed fine. it was the only input/output to traktor tho as all i was doing was seeing whether there was any point at all in being able to apply traktor effects over live. i guess the complex routing for the s4 is due to traktor only being able to use one audio interface?

i don't suppose you could use asio4all to aggregate VAC and your actual s4 audio interface together and then only have to do the VAC shenanigans for the live2traktor routing? i haven't messed with audio routing stuff on a pc for a while. jack may be an alternative to VAC.
JACK looks prety interesting. They claim it was made with real-time in mind so I'll give it a shot.
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012		Judging form my Google searches on the subject, this is something a lot of people want to do. A lot would recommend the opposite and say Route Traktor into Live, but I want the oddball for several reasons, namely:
1) Mixing is much simpler
2) Ableton effects are more set-and-forget/automation oriented than live
3) after days of writing python scripts, I don't want to do any more Live MIDI mapping

I absolutely love both sampling and scratching. Beating on pads and spinning records are the most fun to me and there isn't a single software solution for both so I use Traktor Scratch Pro (where the sample/clip launching sucks even with the new remix decks IMO) and Ableton Live (ms pinky be damned, the layout/functionality is nowhere near turntablist friendly enough for me).
This is what I have to work with:
Kontrol S4
2 Stanton TTs
Custon built controller for clip launching
Korg mikro set

What I used to do was have Live 's master output on ASIO4ALL and run a cable from my headphone jack to Input C of the S4. It worked fine enough, but it was a huge pain in that I could only use 1 TT at a time, so depending on what I wanted to do I would have to run over and switch the plugs which is super-duper gay.

So I sat down and worked some VAC (Virtual audio Cable) magic and pulled this baby off:
TT --> S4 IN C--> VAC Line 1 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Deck A
TT --> S4 IN D--> VAC Line 2 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Deck B
Live --> VAC Line 3 --> Traktor Deck C
Traktor Master Out --> VAC Line 4 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Master Out (WAV)[as in not ASIO]
Traktor Cue Out --> VAC Line 5 --> VAC Audio Repeater --> S4 Cue Out (WAV)

It works. But...caveat. The latency is atrocious (no ASIO!)...from a scratching standpoint anyways. It works fine for simple playing tracks/effects launching/non-intensive clip launching, but no go for anything you really need to watch your timing on. And that's with all the services/processes I don't need running nuked.

So...discuss/try it out. What i'm really hoping for is that somebody can find a better solution or some way to minimize latency to a workable level for scratching. Not having my dream setup is starting to get to me and screw up my workflow.
Lashay Walchak
19.07.2012		I've only used VAC's repeater once and wasn't happy with the results. VAC w/A4A hasn't been to bad. I'll check my latency and get back to you guys.

I still believe you're going to lose Timecode when you select A4A. You could still route the TT's in and play vinyl off them. Again though I don't have either, just a gang of experience with routing stuff through VAC into Traktor.
Rosamaria Alamin
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by DJ Abide
Are you avoiding ASIO? I don't have a S4, but I have routed Ableton and/or Maschine into Traktor using VAC and Asio4All combined. A4A starts an "instance" for each program. Seems like you could set A4A as sound card out on Traktor and enable the inputs from the S4's soundcard. I'm gonna stop right there because that's the problem huh? You can't enable Timecode control without the S4 being the "supported" Scratch certified soundcard.
No, what you're saying is sort of right, the S4 doesn't have to be the sound interface for scratch. My issue is that VAC is slow as all balls.

BUT JACK ISN'T. Jesus Christ that stuff runs like a bat out of hell. Output latency from Traktor is 3.1 ms (so basically the same as straight S4), so their claims to not add any latency is 100% correct. Played with it for a few hours and it works except for the fact that it doesn't have any EXTRA virtual ports. Since the S4 has 4 ports, that's what Jack gives you. So I'm still stuck with the 1 TT at a time problem, but the latency (little though it was) from Ableton > A$A > Headphone Jack is gone! I'll try to see what I can accomplish if I set A4A as the output device in Jack instead of the S4.
Lashay Walchak
18.07.2012		Are you avoiding ASIO? I don't have a S4, but I have routed Ableton and/or Maschine into Traktor using VAC and Asio4All combined. A4A starts an "instance" for each program. Seems like you could set A4A as sound card out on Traktor and enable the inputs from the S4's soundcard. I'm gonna stop right there because that's the problem huh? You can't enable Timecode control without the S4 being the "supported" Scratch certified soundcard.
Chasidy Heckenbach
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by weh
JACK looks prety interesting. They claim it was made with real-time in mind so I'll give it a shot.
jack is meant to be pretty good - most studio apps on linux are geared around using jack to glue them together. i'm doing most of my audio stuff on osx and soundflower does all i need atm, but jack definitely looks a lot more flexible and i will be using it on linux once i get my head around which apps fit best into my workflow.
Rosamaria Alamin
18.07.2012
Originally Posted by zestoi
i believe how you've done it is about all you can do. i played about with routing live into traktor and back again using soundflower on mac and the latency seemed fine. it was the only input/output to traktor tho as all i was doing was seeing whether there was any point at all in being able to apply traktor effects over live. i guess the complex routing for the s4 is due to traktor only being able to use one audio interface?

i don't suppose you could use asio4all to aggregate VAC and your actual s4 audio interface together and then only have to do the VAC shenanigans for the live2traktor routing? i haven't messed with audio routing stuff on a pc for a while. jack may be an alternative to VAC.
JACK looks prety interesting. They claim it was made with real-time in mind so I'll give it a shot.
Chasidy Heckenbach
16.07.2012		i believe how you've done it is about all you can do. i played about with routing live into traktor and back again using soundflower on mac and the latency seemed fine. it was the only input/output to traktor tho as all i was doing was seeing whether there was any point at all in being able to apply traktor effects over live. i guess the complex routing for the s4 is due to traktor only being able to use one audio interface?

i don't suppose you could use asio4all to aggregate VAC and your actual s4 audio interface together and then only have to do the VAC shenanigans for the live2traktor routing? i haven't messed with audio routing stuff on a pc for a while. jack may be an alternative to VAC.
Rosamaria Alamin
16.07.2012
Originally Posted by Lineypirate
Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it
Lora Vandewark
17.07.2012		Are you: a) trying to scratch Ableton tracks or b) just route Ableton audio into Traktor and use Traktors effects and mixer on the Ableton Audio?

If it’s option ‘b’ then I kind of already figured it out in this thread:

http://community .djranking s.com/showthread.php?t=54514

It basically involves using patch cables to route your Ableton audio into Traktor’s line ins. By using real cables instead you eliminate latency issues that would normally arise from VACs or the likes of Soundflower. Although I use an Audio 8 and not sure how the routing of your S4 would work.

As for option ‘a’… I’ll have a play and see what I can come up with!
Kandi Odom
16.07.2012		Nice!!!

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