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IDEA: Using Traktor without needing a laptop on stage.

Home :: General Discussion :: IDEA: Using Traktor without needing a laptop on stage.Reply

IDEA: Using Traktor without needing a laptop on stage. Posted on: 27.07.2012 by Eloy Kiepke http://community s.pioneerdj.com/entries/...-the-cover-art http://community s.pioneerdj.com/entries/...o-advanced-hid A lot of us were really hoping that Traktor's new HID integration with the CDJ 2000/900 would allow us to take better advantage of the CDJ's screens, but in the above links, Pioneer is claiming that is just not possible, as it is a hardware limitation. Let's leave all arguments at the door about whether or not that is true(there's already some discussion about hacking the Pioneer firmware.) This concept of being able to perform without needing a laptop screen open on stage is something I've been working on for a while, and I know it's been done before. I know Mil0 had some success with this, with a program called Clonething, and later a different utility meant for flight simulators. I believe this is a concept that should be brought much farther, as I believe everyone, especially our audiences, would enjoy Software DJing feeling less like operating a computer, and more like operating traditional gear. So the general idea so far is to send video from traktor to external USB screens. I'd like to discuss making this into an organized process, to make it more widespread. Something like a program/application specifically meant for sending data from performance software to usb screens, and using a closed laptop What do you guys believe? Anyone have any ability to tangibly help this who would like to get involved? Would anyone support a kickstarter to start an open-source product line for this?
Nancey Inderlied 28.07.2012	Originally Posted by Saurus Yeah that's great and all, but like I said, if you don't see why this matters, then you're over your head here, and you're not who this post is targeted at. I promise, it's an idea that would be awesome. Really, this simple: Send all important data you want to small screens you can mount on a piece of gear, so that you get information from your platform in the same way as you would a CDJ. I'm talking about starting a project to make this easy for people, so that less people have to perform with laptop screen between them an their audience. You just described two completely existing things: a laptop screen, and a CDJ screen. The sheer amount of logistics, routing power, and insane latency you would introduce by designing such an asinine system definitely wouldn't be worth saving you the trouble of turning your neck to the side of your setup to check the browser. Seriously though, if you're absolutely Hell bent that having a laptop on stage destroys your stage presence, stop using Traktor, it wasn't designed with people like that in mind, and it has virtually nothing to offer you. If you really hate having a laptop on stage, you're going to hate having a mess of spaghetti cabling and mini screens strewn around the booth. You're not believeing practically. Originally Posted by dj matt blaze All I said was, I don't get it. If it its something more than what I believe he is talking about then explain that to me, if its what I said then that can easily be accomplished already without going through all the extra work. Part of being in the community is about bouncing ideas off of each other, and its OK for someone to say .....uhhhh why do you want to do that? Or to say...well that won't really work and here is why. Someone might say something that the OP didn't know or wasn't aware of or didn't believe of, there is nothing wrong with raising that point and quite possibly making someone look at something differently than they did. I am old school, I was brought up in a world where kids were allowed to fail and learn from their mistakes and be told no, or thats not good. Today, everyone wants to be coddled, told every idea is great as to not hurt the so very fragile self esteem. I f I don't believe something is a good idea, or its not going to work, Im going to tell you. If I got it wrong , then tell me why its a good idea, I'm all open for it. But don't expect if someone asks me how to jump off a bridge for me not to tell them its not a good idea, and then tell me I'm being non constructive. CONTROLLERISM IS THR FUTURE, OK?!? SO JUST STOP WITH THE IDEAS AND STUFF, AND HELP US MAKE IT SEEM LIKE WERE NOT USING OUR LAPTOPS!! NOT THAT USING A LAPTOP ALL THE TIME ISN'T THE FUTURE AND PERFECT, SRSLY!!
Roseanna Signorini 28.07.2012	Originally Posted by ToS You two are non-constructive as hell. Contribute or shut-up. OP has a really nice idea, or better yet, a user-friendly upgrade to an idea. Yes, clonething could use few UX tweaks, for starters to be able to mouse-select the area of the screen that you plan to clone. All I said was, I don't get it. If it its something more than what I believe he is talking about then explain that to me, if its what I said then that can easily be accomplished already without going through all the extra work. Part of being in the community is about bouncing ideas off of each other, and its OK for someone to say .....uhhhh why do you want to do that? Or to say...well that won't really work and here is why. Someone might say something that the OP didn't know or wasn't aware of or didn't believe of, there is nothing wrong with raising that point and quite possibly making someone look at something differently than they did. I am old school, I was brought up in a world where kids were allowed to fail and learn from their mistakes and be told no, or thats not good. Today, everyone wants to be coddled, told every idea is great as to not hurt the so very fragile self esteem. I f I don't believe something is a good idea, or its not going to work, Im going to tell you. If I got it wrong , then tell me why its a good idea, I'm all open for it. But don't expect if someone asks me how to jump off a bridge for me not to tell them its not a good idea, and then tell me I'm being non constructive.
Eloy Kiepke 29.07.2012	no, not at all. really just imagine a small screen like a cdj that you can mount to your gear. like one on each side of your s4 for example.
Roseanna Signorini 29.07.2012	you want something like this?
Eloy Kiepke 28.07.2012	Why the hell is this so difficult for some of you guys to figure out? I'm saying the interaction between the dj and displayed information is really good with CDJs, and it would be great tomake that possible for software DJs. im talking about making the interaction with information on sceens be THE SAME for software as on CDJs. It's already possible, and I've personally done it. Im talking about making it easier for people to do. Why would you even bother entering the conversation to say people should be forced to choose between good interation between displays, or all of the advantages of software....?
Nancey Inderlied 28.07.2012	Originally Posted by Saurus Yeah that's great and all, but like I said, if you don't see why this matters, then you're over your head here, and you're not who this post is targeted at. I promise, it's an idea that would be awesome. Really, this simple: Send all important data you want to small screens you can mount on a piece of gear, so that you get information from your platform in the same way as you would a CDJ. I'm talking about starting a project to make this easy for people, so that less people have to perform with laptop screen between them an their audience. You just described two completely existing things: a laptop screen, and a CDJ screen. The sheer amount of logistics, routing power, and insane latency you would introduce by designing such an asinine system definitely wouldn't be worth saving you the trouble of turning your neck to the side of your setup to check the browser. Seriously though, if you're absolutely Hell bent that having a laptop on stage destroys your stage presence, stop using Traktor, it wasn't designed with people like that in mind, and it has virtually nothing to offer you. If you really hate having a laptop on stage, you're going to hate having a mess of spaghetti cabling and mini screens strewn around the booth. You're not believeing practically. Originally Posted by dj matt blaze All I said was, I don't get it. If it its something more than what I believe he is talking about then explain that to me, if its what I said then that can easily be accomplished already without going through all the extra work. Part of being in the community is about bouncing ideas off of each other, and its OK for someone to say .....uhhhh why do you want to do that? Or to say...well that won't really work and here is why. Someone might say something that the OP didn't know or wasn't aware of or didn't believe of, there is nothing wrong with raising that point and quite possibly making someone look at something differently than they did. I am old school, I was brought up in a world where kids were allowed to fail and learn from their mistakes and be told no, or thats not good. Today, everyone wants to be coddled, told every idea is great as to not hurt the so very fragile self esteem. I f I don't believe something is a good idea, or its not going to work, Im going to tell you. If I got it wrong , then tell me why its a good idea, I'm all open for it. But don't expect if someone asks me how to jump off a bridge for me not to tell them its not a good idea, and then tell me I'm being non constructive. CONTROLLERISM IS THR FUTURE, OK?!? SO JUST STOP WITH THE IDEAS AND STUFF, AND HELP US MAKE IT SEEM LIKE WERE NOT USING OUR LAPTOPS!! NOT THAT USING A LAPTOP ALL THE TIME ISN'T THE FUTURE AND PERFECT, SRSLY!!
Danae Dumler 28.07.2012	OK so I like the idea of sending video of part of your traktor screen to another screen for productivity; eventually a piece of hardware with, say, effects knobs that actually display what effect is on which knob and changes dynamically, or a little touchscreen with the waveform that you can tap through, that sort of thing would be cool. But I'm skeptical of this whole "trying to get away from my laptop" idea. If you don't want a computer involved, play vinyl or CDs. Multiplying screens doesn't get you away from the laptop; it's quite the opposite - like having a half dozen mini-laptops scattered about. I understand why people don't like DJs who stare at screens, but I believe the only way out of that is getting rid of the laptop altogether. And then you're still not getting away from computers unless you have a really basic setup - you believe there's no computers in your CDJs and your effects-capable mixer?
Eloy Kiepke 29.07.2012	Yeah that's great and all, but like I said, if you don't see why this matters, then you're over your head here, and you're not who this post is targeted at. I promise, it's an idea that would be awesome. Really, this simple: Send all important data you want to small screens you can mount on a piece of gear, so that you get information from your platform in the same way as you would a CDJ. I'm talking about starting a project to make this easy for people, so that less people have to perform with laptop screen between them an their audience.
Roseanna Signorini 28.07.2012	Originally Posted by ToS You two are non-constructive as hell. Contribute or shut-up. OP has a really nice idea, or better yet, a user-friendly upgrade to an idea. Yes, clonething could use few UX tweaks, for starters to be able to mouse-select the area of the screen that you plan to clone. All I said was, I don't get it. If it its something more than what I believe he is talking about then explain that to me, if its what I said then that can easily be accomplished already without going through all the extra work. Part of being in the community is about bouncing ideas off of each other, and its OK for someone to say .....uhhhh why do you want to do that? Or to say...well that won't really work and here is why. Someone might say something that the OP didn't know or wasn't aware of or didn't believe of, there is nothing wrong with raising that point and quite possibly making someone look at something differently than they did. I am old school, I was brought up in a world where kids were allowed to fail and learn from their mistakes and be told no, or thats not good. Today, everyone wants to be coddled, told every idea is great as to not hurt the so very fragile self esteem. I f I don't believe something is a good idea, or its not going to work, Im going to tell you. If I got it wrong , then tell me why its a good idea, I'm all open for it. But don't expect if someone asks me how to jump off a bridge for me not to tell them its not a good idea, and then tell me I'm being non constructive.
Rochel Gleese 28.07.2012	Seriously what the hell is Romantic Techno? That as to be the most ridiculous genre name I've ever heard
DJ MENSAH 28.07.2012	You two are non-constructive as hell. Contribute or shut-up. OP has a really nice idea, or better yet, a user-friendly upgrade to an idea. Yes, clonething could use few UX tweaks, for starters to be able to mouse-select the area of the screen that you plan to clone. Edit: stopped following this thread.
Latoria Kavulich 27.07.2012	just use the cdjs ffs. stop making things complicated for yourself
Roseanna Signorini 27.07.2012	Maybe its just me but I don't get it. You don't want the laptop on stage, but you want a screen connected USB to your laptop displaying the information? My laptop has a VGA output, I could put my laptop under a table, connect it to a monitor and still see the program without the computer infront of me. If I wanted to search fora track by typing it in, I would have a problem unless I hook up an external keyboard to the laptop but then whats the point of that? If you want traditional CDJ djing ,then get a USB stick with your tracks and do traditional CDJ DJing, why would you need traktor at all?
Nancey Inderlied 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Saurus This is twice now... I'm getting frustrated. Did you read any of this? I said Mil0 was working on the concept of not needing a laptop screen, using Clonething. The reason people keep saying things like that is because you can already use CDJs without needing a laptop screen. What you keep going off about is emulating Traktor's playhead on-deck. Something tha falls to the devices coding, or a third party screen system.
Romelia Stankard 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Tommi Bass Now I'm all pissed off and need to cheer myself up with an hours mixing of Romantic Techno. Just don't tell lance
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by DJDoubleYou Mil0 wasn't working on a new CDJ firmware, more like a midi-CDJ clone This is twice now... I'm getting frustrated. Did you read any of this? I said Mil0 was working on the concept of not needing a laptop screen, using Clonething.
Era Roka 27.07.2012	Mil0 wasn't working on a new CDJ firmware, more like a midi-CDJ clone
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c clone thing sounds like a winner then! but displaying the browser might be a little tricky as it would squash from a 15-17inch to a 8-10inch screen so the text would probably be impossible to read on a single screen unless you were able to make it scroll left to right, spreading it over two would be okay though but then you cant see the decks while browsing.. Yeah, I believe contacting the creator of Clonething would be a good step. I'm mostly throwing it out there as a community project to see if anyone on this community is interested in streamlining this so more people are able to use it. The browser had occured to be as an issue... Maybe it could detect the size of the entries, then warp them so each entry is two lines high on the mini screen?
DJ MENSAH 27.07.2012	clonething used to lock up my traktor few months ago. It would play a few songs and the halt playing/loading until I close the clonething. better watch out in live situations.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 27.07.2012	I believe it's more because he can, and was wanting to be able to use multi touches, something you can't do in VDJ LOL clone thing sounds like a winner then! but displaying the browser might be a little tricky as it would squash from a 15-17inch to a 8-10inch screen so the text would probably be impossible to read on a single screen unless you were able to make it scroll left to right, spreading it over two would be okay though but then you cant see the decks while browsing..
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c Yeah I know it would be better to skin it in vdj, in fact it would be very easy to do just making your skin long enough for the three screens Yeah definitely true. As with everything, I'm sure it would be easy in VDJ (which is why i wonder why that guy is doing it in such a seemingly silly manner.) Originally Posted by synthet1c unless you can make a screen capture program that you can re arrange and resize to show you the right information... it probably wouldn't be easy though.. That's actually exactly what Clonething already does. It's actually possible right now to do everything I'm talking about. I'm more or less just talking about making that technology more user-friendly, so more people can utilize it. Like something that would read how you've got traktor/VDJ/Serato/Ableton etc. set up, and automatically grab the right parts.
Eleanore Hartmeyer 27.07.2012	@tommiBass my feelings exactly
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Saurus I'm not sure why that guy is even bothering trying to send actual data out of VDJ... It would be much simpler and more versitile to just to do everything with the skinning utility, and then send cloned video to the screen. Yeah I know it would be better to skin it in vdj, in fact it would be very easy to do just making your skin long enough for the three screens, but traktor can't skin, so creating a virtual midi device for the information and a screen captured window to display the waveforms and browser may be your only option, unless you can make a screen capture program that you can re arrange and resize to show you the right information... it probably wouldn't be easy though.. vdj 3 screens - synthet1c - djtt.jpg
Germaine Bernadin 27.07.2012	Isn't this supposed to be a Digital DJ community ? Why do we keep banging on about fucking CDJs and Vinyl. They have their own community s, fucking loads of them. I switched from Vinyl .... years ago. No big deal. I love using Traktor......... I was stoked when this website/community was established......... so us DIGITAL Performers could have a voice... without some oldskool wanker dissing our digital tools. Now I'm all pissed off and need to cheer myself up with an hours mixing of Romantic Techno.
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Shishdisma I answered your initial question above, press the info button. It still doesn't send cue points and loop markers correctly still doesn't support four decks, unless you have four CDJs still doesn't have colored, zoomable, stereo waveforms which most DJ software does doesn't have phase meters for those who like to do things like double drops out of sections without a beat to beatmatch, won't tell if looping is on doesn't tell you the current loop/move amount I can keep going. Originally Posted by Shishdisma The comment you quoted was in response to your "advantages of using Traktor" comment. If you still believe that list "better served" by a traditional CDJ set up or ableton, then you're over your head here, and you're not who this is targeted at, so don't worry about it.
Nancey Inderlied 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Saurus I.... Don't believe you read anything said in this thread whatsoever. I'm talking about sending VIDEO from any number of music programs to mini screens, so that you can perform with this software without having your laptop open on stage. This is very very simple. I answered your initial question above, press the info button. The comment you quoted was in response to your "advantages of using Traktor" comment.
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Originally Posted by Shishdisma Most of what you said is either already in Rekordbox, not possible with HID, or just really served better elsewhere (Ableton, mixer effects, etc). I.... Don't believe you read anything said in this thread whatsoever. I'm talking about sending a VIDEO feed of the important part of your laptop screen to a mini usb screen. It can be sent from any program really, and will allow you to see only the important info, so that you can perform with this software without having your laptop open on stage. This is very very simple, and can currently be done with Clonething. I'm just talking about streamlining this so it can be used by people who don't want to have to deal with all of the complicated stuff
Nancey Inderlied 27.07.2012	Most of what you said is either already in Rekordbox, not possible with HID, or just really served better elsewhere (Ableton, mixer effects, etc).
Eloy Kiepke 27.07.2012	Really? Where to even start... Software adds the ability to mix on four decks without four CDJs Plus the new Remix decks in Traktor beatjump 8 cue points effects chaining (just echo freeze alone... i mean really) colored wave forms FAR more track tag info as well as all of the abilities of sync (Seriously, I dunno how you can turn down the ability to switch on sync mode to change the tempos of multiple decks at once.) What I'm picturing would work much better by just sending video like Clonething... I'm not sure why that guy is even bothering trying to send actual data out of VDJ... It would be much simpler and more versitile to just to do everything with the skinning utility, and then send cloned video to the screen. Why bother with touch controls when you have a hardware controller right there that does the same thing but better....
Nancey Inderlied 27.07.2012	The issue in that first thread is that the track info isn't displayed on the preview browser. This is because it can't send the browser tags info over HID. Hint: push the "info" button, and it'll show you the full track info. On the 2000, the screen doesn't automatically roll over to the info screen when you load a track, because the waveform is on the HUD.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 27.07.2012	probably can't beatmatch or is an effect whore ... >>This<< is what a "chackl" on the VDJ community was working on, but if the guys at smithson martin can make their emulator software display waveforms and be a virtual midi device it should be possible in traktor with some mini touch screens, but I would recommend using VGA instead as usb screens are too slow to refresh. Also midi can send and recieve text no problems so that might be something worth looking into, although knowing NI it's probably only possible in HID and locked out for everyone but their premium clients like pioneer
Arla Seniw 27.07.2012	If you don't want a laptop next to the CDJ' why not just burn the songs to cd or a usb pen? If you have CDJ's that take usb and a mixer with effects then what does traktor add to the setup?

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IDEA: Using Traktor without needing a laptop on stage.