Newbie speedbumps
Newbie speedbumps Posted on: 03.08.2012 by Tegan Shrom I am new to mixing/DJing and have hit a snag. I have a s2/traktor and am pretty familiar with how they work, but i dont know where to go from here. All the tech stuff aside, i am not sure how to practice mixing. What do you do to just practice techniques or even know what song you want to play with next...? Just feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all i suppose... | |
| Lashawn Maycock 06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by SirReal
All these tools we have at our disposal are great in their own way but cannot make up for practice, listening to music and building up your knowledge. I sound like another old school DJ banging on about the 'good ol' days' but there is something to be said for taking away all the visual and audible cues and go back to 2 decks, mixer, speakers and bunch of tunes; the best way to learn how things work and don't work in my opinion. Of course this can be done with the latest kit, pick a load of tunes from your hard drive, load them up, turn the screen away and mix. |
| Antonetta Wikel 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
|
| Cole Maroto 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by SirReal
|
| Cole Maroto 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
I wasn't generalizing most EDM producers. It just seems to me that I read a thread every other day thats says "I am a DJ/producer...." My point is, just because you bought maschine, FL Studio, Ableton, etc. and can program a drum pattern, add a bassline and some samples doesn't make you a producer. Most real producers do have some musical background. I agree, through trial and error, creativity, someone without a technical musical background can create something thats sounds great. The pros and cons of technology means more so called DJs and more so called producers but the cream always rises to the top.
I'll give ya that, I went a little too far with that 1 but I would still argue that overall rhythms are more of a driving force behind EDM than melody.
As far as my own so called productions. I am not a producer, Quincy Jones is a producer. I make beats. my apologies if i went too far calling your own beats into question. i respect the fact that you are making songs (and dj mixes) and have them online for all to hear. i just started making beats/producing on a more serious level about a month ago, so i have nothing to even show in this dept yet. for me writing a bunch of little cool bits has always been pretty easy but making those sounds mean something within the context of a song is my main weakness. potent arrangement and breakdowns have always been tough for me, ever since i started tinkering with the guitar 20 years ago. |
| Cole Maroto 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
Originally Posted by Emery
|
| Geri Jarra 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
@squidot - I couldn't have said it any better myself |
| Cole Maroto 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
firstly, mixing in key is important, or rather mixing songs together that don't clash are important and knowing the key usually helps you. yes you are correct that songs in the same key don't always work and you should always be using your ears as the final judge. also i've read that mik isn't completely accurate, so you have to deal with that as well. even if there are long non-melodic parts that you can mix together with no issues as soon as the melody does kick in, if they are clashing keys, it still sounds odd to me and can tend to dampen the flow and flavor of the mix. it just depends on the space between melodies, but too much space between them can get boring to a lot of people. if you are dealing with mostly tech house or techno, then the key isn't going to matter that much since those sounds don't tend to be melody focused. with that said, i use mik but don't put all of my mixing choices to a concrete camelot wheel style of mixing. i play what i believe sounds the best regardless of the little number and letter combination, but it does help with my choices fairly frequently. especially as a way to narrow down my selections. secondly, i feel as though you are generalizing way too much on your edm producers don't know anything musically. even if you don't know technical aspects of scales, time signatures, and other music school jargon you can still hear and feel what is correct through trial and error. also, most producers i've seen do use keyboards to write their melodies. hell, even if you use a maschine to tap out melodies, you still have to play the correct notes so i'm failing to really see your point on this. a lot of deep house and other genres are driven by the melody and to say that musicality barely exists in edm is coming off as borderline ignorant to me. and for someone who is speaking so critically of most edm producers it seems a bit ironic after listening to a couple of your own hip hop productions. but yes, practicing, having fun, and using your ears are the most important things when djing. |
| Frieda Swoboda 03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by rawb
Some people can key songs with a keyboard if they have a musical background but most DJ's don't and it also takes a long time and is boring if you have a whole library to do. Unless you have perfect pitch and key songs on the fly, I would Mixed in Key is a must have piece of software, especially for beginners. |
| Dorcas Bassignani 03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Coach Nighs
|
| Dorcas Bassignani 06.08.2012 | this thread is starting to sound like this thread. OP only asked for a bit of advice.. lol |
| Lashawn Maycock 06.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by SirReal
All these tools we have at our disposal are great in their own way but cannot make up for practice, listening to music and building up your knowledge. I sound like another old school DJ banging on about the 'good ol' days' but there is something to be said for taking away all the visual and audible cues and go back to 2 decks, mixer, speakers and bunch of tunes; the best way to learn how things work and don't work in my opinion. Of course this can be done with the latest kit, pick a load of tunes from your hard drive, load them up, turn the screen away and mix. |
| Antonetta Wikel 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by squidot
|
| Cole Maroto 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by SirReal
|
| Cole Maroto 05.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
I wasn't generalizing most EDM producers. It just seems to me that I read a thread every other day thats says "I am a DJ/producer...." My point is, just because you bought maschine, FL Studio, Ableton, etc. and can program a drum pattern, add a bassline and some samples doesn't make you a producer. Most real producers do have some musical background. I agree, through trial and error, creativity, someone without a technical musical background can create something thats sounds great. The pros and cons of technology means more so called DJs and more so called producers but the cream always rises to the top.
I'll give ya that, I went a little too far with that 1 but I would still argue that overall rhythms are more of a driving force behind EDM than melody.
As far as my own so called productions. I am not a producer, Quincy Jones is a producer. I make beats. my apologies if i went too far calling your own beats into question. i respect the fact that you are making songs (and dj mixes) and have them online for all to hear. i just started making beats/producing on a more serious level about a month ago, so i have nothing to even show in this dept yet. for me writing a bunch of little cool bits has always been pretty easy but making those sounds mean something within the context of a song is my main weakness. potent arrangement and breakdowns have always been tough for me, ever since i started tinkering with the guitar 20 years ago. |
| Antonetta Wikel 04.08.2012 | I kinda disagree with the whole "Mixed in key" debate. While it is/can be useful, it's really only makes a difference if you use "key Lock". DJ's programed harmonically solid mixes for YEARS with turntables and CDJ's before key lock was even around. It's another aspect of using your ears and having an inherent understanding of phrasing, something which many newer DJ's today are lacking. Anyone try using key lock on a really good system while mixing a track that's more than 3-4% past it's nominal? The phasing and chorusing is obvious, distracting & annoying. |
| Roseanna Signorini 04.08.2012 |
firstly, mixing in key is important, or rather mixing songs together that don't clash are important and knowing the key usually helps you.
secondly, i feel as though you are generalizing way too much on your edm producers don't know anything musically. even if you don't know technical aspects of scales, time signatures, and other music school jargon you can still hear and feel what is correct through trial and error
to say that musicality barely exists in edm is coming off as borderline ignorant to me. and for someone who is speaking so critically of most edm producers it seems a bit ironic after listening to a couple of your own hip hop productions.
As far as my own so called productions. I am not a producer, Quincy Jones is a producer. I make beats. |
| Cole Maroto 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
Originally Posted by Emery
|
| Geri Jarra 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
@squidot - I couldn't have said it any better myself |
| Cole Maroto 04.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by dj matt blaze
firstly, mixing in key is important, or rather mixing songs together that don't clash are important and knowing the key usually helps you. yes you are correct that songs in the same key don't always work and you should always be using your ears as the final judge. also i've read that mik isn't completely accurate, so you have to deal with that as well. even if there are long non-melodic parts that you can mix together with no issues as soon as the melody does kick in, if they are clashing keys, it still sounds odd to me and can tend to dampen the flow and flavor of the mix. it just depends on the space between melodies, but too much space between them can get boring to a lot of people. if you are dealing with mostly tech house or techno, then the key isn't going to matter that much since those sounds don't tend to be melody focused. with that said, i use mik but don't put all of my mixing choices to a concrete camelot wheel style of mixing. i play what i believe sounds the best regardless of the little number and letter combination, but it does help with my choices fairly frequently. especially as a way to narrow down my selections. secondly, i feel as though you are generalizing way too much on your edm producers don't know anything musically. even if you don't know technical aspects of scales, time signatures, and other music school jargon you can still hear and feel what is correct through trial and error. also, most producers i've seen do use keyboards to write their melodies. hell, even if you use a maschine to tap out melodies, you still have to play the correct notes so i'm failing to really see your point on this. a lot of deep house and other genres are driven by the melody and to say that musicality barely exists in edm is coming off as borderline ignorant to me. and for someone who is speaking so critically of most edm producers it seems a bit ironic after listening to a couple of your own hip hop productions. but yes, practicing, having fun, and using your ears are the most important things when djing. |
| Dorcas Bassignani 04.08.2012 | he raised a valid point, i've never seen any real benefit to mixing in key, but i try not to have melodies run into each other if i can help it |
| Geri Jarra 04.08.2012 | you lost me on the EDM hate rant |
| Roseanna Signorini 04.08.2012 | Practice, practice, practice. Personally IMO mixing in key is overrated and completely unnecessary. For those that like to do it, whatever floats your boat but thats my opinion. If the OP wants to go that route at some point, thats his decsion but at this point in his young DJ career I believe practice time would be much better spent on learning and experimenting with different techniques on how to transition, use loops, use filters, EQing, beatmatching etc. The very last thing on that list IMO is worrying about the key. Mixing in key is not going to make mixes sound any better. Two things in the same key can sound like crap in the same way 2 things in different keys can sound like crap. First and foremost, always use your ears. Getting used to song structure is more important, knowing what the downbeat is, knowing how to count and recognize the beginning, the middle and the end of a phrase is much more important than the key, especially in EDM. Dance music centers around rhythms, patterns, phrases, samples and not so much on melodic content. This is why every other DJ is a so called "producer". This is why "patterns" are tapped out on maschine and not played on a keyboard. How can someone call themself a producer if they don't know scales, don't know what a time signature is, don't know what a turn around is, don't know what a coda is, its because that musicality barely exists in EDM, so why would the key matter in mixing? Practice and have fun and eventually it will all click and come together. |
| Freida Leash 03.08.2012 | I see the benefits of Mixed In Key because more information is always nice. I kind of feel that if I put on a track, and it sounds out of key in the headphones when I'm cueing, then maybe I should choose another tune, unless it is going to have mostly drums for the intro then it really doesn't matter. I'm not paying for it, when it mostly comes down to does this sound right. |
| Frieda Swoboda 03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by rawb
Some people can key songs with a keyboard if they have a musical background but most DJ's don't and it also takes a long time and is boring if you have a whole library to do. Unless you have perfect pitch and key songs on the fly, I would Mixed in Key is a must have piece of software, especially for beginners. |
| Dorcas Bassignani 03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by Coach Nighs
|
| Buena Roth 03.08.2012 | These are all great tips, but on the learning your music thing, every time you get new music, put it on your ipod. Listen to it as you work around the house and just get a feel for each song. Once you know each song inside and out, take them off and put on the next few. This way youll also be able to sort of test them, play them when your chilling with friends, or when your driving to the movies. Pay attention to the mood different songs set on people. On the practice note, all I can say is have fun. Don't be too worried about making the perfect mix for your soundcloud, develop your own style and crazy little techniques and then when you drop back to simple things itll all seem easier. (I might catch some flak for that last tip but you need to give your audience something different, give them a reason to listen to you instead of the thousands of other djs out there) |
| Bunny Sockel 03.08.2012 | I just select a track and start djing thats how i practise sometimes i will practise for an hour, two hours one time i was djing for six hours and i didn't even realise it |
| Lorri Bobar 03.08.2012 | hey buddy. i am kind of at the same stage as you. i got an s4 and jumped right into all the tech stuff of traktor, but had been kind of putting off mixing. i've only really got into it the past couple of weeks - after asking a similar question to yours in this good community
of kindhearted djs. well, the best advice i got is 'just do it'. practise makes perfect i have a crate in traktor of about 100 tracks that i like at the moment. i've gone thru maybe about half of em. I load up a track in deck A and let it play a bit - adding some hotcues for later, make sure the grid is good. then load up something in deck b, quickly autogrid and check it, find the drop or try fading it in with some filter/eq tweaks. maybe it sounds awesome, maybe it sounds shite! but each new track i play and mix is bringing me one step closer to 'getting it'. rinse, repeat for a few hrs each day. more good advice - record every thing you do. that is what i'm trying to do :P if you wanna share some mixes or tips/tricks via email/pm, lemme know |
| Dorcas Bassignani 03.08.2012 | when i was learning (many moons ago on vinyl) i practiced by recording myself every time i played, i would try to fill one side of a 90 min tape (said it was a lot of moons) without making a mistake. i'd then listen to it back on the way to school to see what i needed to improve and how, rebelieve mixes between tracks etc... (i guess the equivalent today is try to record a 45 min - hour mp3) on the playlist side of things, try and keep reasonably consistent in the order you play, it will help aide practice - i would play the same 15/20 tracks in the same order for a week. when buying new tracks, only add 5 new tracks to your collection per week at the most to begin with, you'll find yourself weaving them into the current list easier, and as you'll be adding a low number of tracks, getting to know each inside out will be easier too. start small, start simple, be consistent |
| Tegan Shrom 03.08.2012 | Thank you for the informative resposes! Ill keep it all in mind and put them to good use next time i hop on the decks! I have definatly been believeing about keying my library, seems logical to me. Does that program "mixed in key" work well? (is it worth paying for?) |
| Werner Kust 03.08.2012 | I don't know whether or not Jonathan a.k.a. ellaskins has mentioned this, if he has, then I'll repeat it here shortly for the emphasis of importance: Know the tracks you are playing! Even though digital DJing will help you out with showing you the waveform, it's just an orientation kind of thing. You not only have to know e.g. when you expect the beat to be cut in the track - because that is what you see from the waveforms - but also how it sounds like (low-frequent? many high frequencies? are long pads or does a lead synthesizer play?) and how long it will last (so you can decide when's the time to mix in the other track). It's vital. |
| Frieda Swoboda 03.08.2012 | People here will argue the pros and cons, but I highly suggest you "key" all your songs and make sure you mix harmonically if just starting out. It will train your ear if you have no musical background and it will give you a direction as to what song to choose next. I know guys are going to say it limits your choices and the right song to play next is not always in key, but you need to train your ear and understand basic musical concepts. As for practice, I say keep it short at first. Start with 30 minutes then take a break and either listen to the mix or just believe back to what worked and what didn't. Then try again. Remember to experiment and have fun during practice. For me, practice is to discover new ways to mix up parts, not to be perfect. I believe the only time your practice should be focused on perfection is if you are working on a set routine. But HAVE FUN! Maybe just load up that first song and don't touch anything, just listen and get into the groove first before you start turning knobs and believeing about the next song. |
| Freida Leash 03.08.2012 | Set up your practice time two ways. First concentrate on building a set list that has direction that is at least one hour to get thru and go over the mixes repeatedly until you feel you can nail it. I mean you are working the mix the way you want, record it so you can listen later, record the next attempt and so on until you get comfortable mixing a programmed set with the effects and tricks you want. Pay attention to why these songs work, how the ebb and flow of the energy level of the set goes, make every song one you love so that you will want to hear them a bunch. Second, when you are bored of hearing the same music over and over, play with mixing the next thing you want to hear. Don't worry about the faults but how to correct them quickly. No need to go back over it and do it again or practice bits and pieces. Apply what you learned in the structured set to these new mixes. I rarely record these sessions, but just enjoy them while they are happening or quit because I'm not feeling it. The third thing to do is repeat step one until you have a few play lists that you know work. You can have something to build on if you are playing by picking and choosing sections of each playlist. You can move between sections of things you know work, and the next tune you want to play until you are much better at song selection. |
| Ming Devis 03.08.2012 | Youtube is your friend. Look at this guys beginner tutorials - ellaskins DJ tutor |
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